Looking on the store shelves .. no powder, primers, brass. We hear "oh, it's going into factory ammo 'cause the profit margin is higher." Ok ... those same store shelves don't have ammo either. Online places don't have more than the tiniest fraction of what they normally carry. So where is it? No, it is not all being sold because to sell it you have to have it and if they have it, we could see it pass through inventory and we don't. Something stinks.

What am I not seeing?

Several months of record number of firearm sales to first time firearm owners, they all need ammo. This plus hoarders, the chicken little who feel they need to have five years or more supply of ammo & reloading components. There was a pic on here not long ago of a stash of ammo the size of the bathroom in most folk's home. Custom built shelves packed from floor to ceiling with ammo, all this plus flippers/gougers. Manufacturer's only have so much capacity and the combined demand has far exceeded that capacity. Nothing nefarious going on.

Items are selling out within minutes of hitting the shelf instead of weeks. That’s what’s happening.

You ain’t lying ! I ‘seen’ that.

Was at the Bloomsburg gun show today. Only saw one vendor with powder. At $50/lb. I'm good, thanks.

I was at a gun show last saturday. The little powder I saw was 100 dollars per lb and the primers I saw was 145 dollars per 1000. Glad I started buying after the last shortage so I had plenty of both. I couldn't afford todays prices if I needed components.

As a semi-geezer, am always astonished that so many "mature" shooters are astonished at this so-called "shortage." This is because I've been through two before, the first when the Clinton administration passed the so-called "assault rifle ban" in the 1990s--which resulted in a primer-buying panic, due to rumors that all new primers were designed to "go dud" within six months. This resulted in quite a few people burying primers inside PVC pipe. So far I am still shooting primers purchased as far back as the early 1990s, and they still go bang. (Maybe I'm a "hoarder.")

That "shortage" lasted at most a year, but apparently very few people learned anything from it. When the Obama "shortage" started, the big deal (for some reason, perhaps to many primers buried in yards) wasn't primers but rimfire ammo. This lasted maybe 2 years until manufacturing caught up to demand. The extreme demand, of course, was partly fueled by those who bought up any rimfire ammo they could find, and jacked up the prices--which is exactly what's happening today, (A few years after the Great Rimfire Shortage I went to a local garage sale, where the guy had a pile of rimfire ammo for sale at the same panic-prices of a few years ago. Since all the local stores were now selling the same stuff for a far lower price, his ammo just sat there. Apparently he couldn't figure out why.)

No, there is nothing "fishy" about this "shortage." Instead it's the same BS which happens every time. First, shooters who didn't learn from the previous two "shortages," and kept expecting to be able to buy 100 primers, or .22 Long Rifles, or bullets, or .223 ammo, or a pound of their favorite powder at a local store, suddenly discovered that wasn't so. So they bought all they could afford.

Once that started to happen other people who decided to make a profit on the remaining components and ammo, so bought up the rest. Which they're now attempting on the Campfire Classfieds, or wherever. Some of them will end up with a garage full of stuff, Some won't.

So no, it isn't a "something stinks" mystery. It's capitalism at work.

My buddy in Wendell Idaho stated simerlys aka ( if we ain't got it U don't need it! Got a pallet of powder last week!)

Talked with my buddy just yesterday about this. I’m thinking that, as a result of three “panics” in recent history, Clinton, Obama and now Harris/Biden, reloading components and ammo will continue to carry outrageous prices for the duration. This situation will become our new normal. Fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me twice? Etc ....A third time? Holy crap! Every man for himself! Anything hitting the shelves will be gobbled up by the hoarders because the next panic just might be around the corner. Gosh I hope I’m wrong...

The other factor is that manufacturers who went through the Clinton/Obama shortages also leaned that building/ buying ne factories and machinery to catch up to demand resulted in excess capacity when the "shortage" ended, whether due to shooters buying as much as they could ever need, or exceeding their credit-card limit. In fact, some companies which expanded went broke. Other added workers and shifts until demand started to slacken, which is what some are doing now.

Back before the ammo crunch really hit, there was one guy down in the rimfire forum bragging about buying 13, 50 round boxes of target 22 ammo that was on closeout. The nerve of some people huh?

Was that you?

I stepped into Sportsman's Whorehouse today to buy some cat gland lure and noticed they had 15 or so 50 round boxes of Aguila .22 Super Extra. Nothing fancy, but it was there. In the 20 or so seconds I was there looking at it to see if it was hollow point or solid point, a line had formed. I nabbed 2 and got out of the way. I watched as every person in the line did the same. It was gone in just a few minutes.

Was I part of the problem? Hell if I know but I do need .22 rounds for my trap gun.

And you didn't have any before then? Say a brick?

I'm fairly close to you in age I think and I went through those same shortages. Maybe it's a regional difference but here the hole feels .. bigger .. this time around.

That's E-Z, the millions and millions of gun owners across this country buying up ammo the second it becomes available - either on one of the hundreds of websites or the tens of thousands of retail outlets across the land. What is amazing is how many gun owners alive today lived through the first couple of nationwide ammo/component shortages over the last 30 years, and couldn't see this one coming.

It does feel different this time, for one thing I think folks realize anything can happen now. Best be prepared.
My clinton era primer stash is now down to under 300 large rifle magnum primers.

I had 50 or so on me, but used it the last few months on random rabbits and such. I've got 2-3000 at my mom's place in the Bitterroot and 2-3000 more in my enclosed cargo trailer which is buried under snow. I took a transfer last summer and most everything I have is in that trailer. Until I close on a house (hopefully in a few weeks) I don't feel like digging it all out. I think I know where it is at in the trailer but I'd have to move a lot of furniture and tools out of the way to get to it. I should have thought ahead but I didn't think it would take this long to find and close on a place.

This was specifically why I put a WTB add on the classifieds a while back for a single six with the mag cylinder...because a local store had 2 boxes of .22 mag ammo. I bought it, then looked for a gun to shoot it through!

The last two shortages had people concerned with the same fear: that anything could happen.
We'll get through this. It'll suck, and our freedoms will get chipped away a bit more which isn't acceptable to me, but we'll survive.

That's the point .. it's *not* hitting the shelves or the websites. Stores that are normally stocking dealers tell me they haven't seen so much as a carton of .22 long rifle come into inventory in 4-6 months. Been out of 9mm since October and haven't seen a single round come in. I can't speak for every online retailer but I'm on waiting lists with several. They're not getting stock. ARE NOT. I understand how demand can keep retailers from accumulating supply, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying they are not getting supply. None.

And, once again, the problem is US. When did the shortages end? When the panic stopped. When did the panic stop? After enough people realized that the sky had not, in fact, fallen.

The gun and ammo dealers in my area
have been stripped bare by the hoarders
waiting in line, buying all available ammo, etc.

I've seen it personally. When it was the 22lr,
I'd posted about it on the sites I used and
got called the worst kind of a liar and worse.


The hoarding and panic buying happened then,
and is happening now. The same thing happened
and is happening now with loaves of bread and
packages of toilet paper, so I can't understand
why it's so hard to believe that it would happen
with firearms and ammunition

Yes prior to the Clinton/Obama era primers were $10/K, they went to $35/K. Now the sky seems to be the limit al though I recently purchased small pistol primers for $40/K and large rifle primers for $65/K. The SPP were a real stroke of luck to find at that price. So fuqk the gougers, anyone who pays $3-400/K for primers is just S-T-U-P-I-D !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since it’s obvious that nobody is going to change what they think about the causes of this situation, I’ll just offer a few observations, maybe combined with a question or two.

First, what sort of person, in the middle of a famine of sorts, brags about how much of the goods in short supply he has, and worse, posts pictures of those goods for the starving to see? The word “prudence” has been used a lot lately in regard to the shortage. Well, dangling that sort of stuff out like that ain’t prudent, kind of mean actually. Maybe it’s the anonymous nature of the web that makes them feel it’s okay to taunt others with their abundance, however it was acquired or when.

Second, why do people who have experienced this before, at least twice now, allow it to happen to them yet again? This situation didn’t happen overnight, it took five or six months to develop during which time supplies could be found with just a little bit of searching. Before that, everything was available at good, even bargain prices, for several years. Maybe my perspective is skewed by the fact that my time is my own and playing with guns is my main activity, but the signs were pretty clear almost a year ago that things were getting tight. I can’t imagine letting myself getting really short of any non-perishable that I use regularly, and making special trips to pick up one or two things is a huge waste of time and gas. Living in a semi-rural area where selections are usually limited has made me rely more and more on online buying to get what I want or need, not just what the locals have. Makes it pretty easy to stay ahead of one’s needs, be they TP or gunpowder.

It took a while, but the lack of ammo has finally impacted the activity at my local shooting range. I was there a week ago Saturday to transfer a shotgun to a buyer and they were running a class for CC, but no one was shooting, and they sent one of the RSOs home. It’s been tapering off for a while, with the spray and pray crowd the first to disappear. A few days earlier I was there to shoot, and had the range entirely to myself for most of the couple of hours I was there. Very convenient for me, but not very good for the owner and the employees. I hope it doesn’t lead to restricted operating hours. In contrast, on my last trip to a small LGS that I use for consignment sales sometimes, it was pretty packed. They assemble ARs and also trick up handguns, so they apparently have some stuff to sell. Not much ammo in evidence, except .300 BO and some .40 and buckshot. Have avoided the other nearby shop because they might have a gun I might be tempted to buy, and I’m trying to quit.

Finally, while it’s important to keep abreast of what’s happening or potentially happening with regard to gun control legislation, panicky posts about every whackdoodle bill introduced by our foes in Congress and the legislatures only feeds the sense of doom driving the famine. Some of what’s being proposed might happen, but a lot of it is the same old stuff we’ve seen for decades, just dusted off and polished mainly to keep the GC crowd happy and the donations rolling in. So far, Biden has backed off on his promises on GC, along with a bunch of other stuff. It bears watching, but not obsessing as yet.

Every Wednesday a line begins forming at least 30 minutes before the local sporting goods store opens. Why Wednesday? That's the weekly inventory delivery day and the only day that popular factory ammo will actually appear on the shelves.

Now, there's actually plenty of ammo on the shelves there, if you're a 6mm anything shooter, or any cartridge with WSM, RUM, or the like tacked on to the end of it. Oh yea, I forgot - there's a couple boxes of .50 BMG left too.

Wandered into the store on a Thursday afternoon (I now avoid Wednesday's) to pick up another box for storing handloads and Mother of God - there was a clerk stocking the shelves with boxes of Federal factory .308 ammo! "late delivery", he said.

'Course, it was all gone pronto.

At least ammo IS coming IN. Can't keep up with demand. Lines of people looking or buying the 'limit' the stores will sell to one customer.


Jerry

I have a friend that sold most of his reloading stuff, powder, primers, bullets, and his two AR's when the panic started. Then he called me and wanted to borrow some powder until powder got back on the shelves.

When he heard that I found a dealer with primers on the shelves he said: "Why don't you go and buy him out? You can sell that stuff on the internet and make big bucks?"

I'm still a bit pi$$ed off regarding this friend's greed.

Whatever portion of this that’s driven by new gun owners trying to get ammo for their new toys should drop off once they have “enough”, since most aren’t going to shoot much. Re-sellers will continue to do what they do when they can as long as they can. Since I don’t understand what drives real hoarders (as opposed to the simply prudent), I have no idea at what point they’ll decide they have “Enough”.

That’s an easy “no”. Let him starve.

I understand new gun owners and panic buying but what I don't understand is you can't even find bullet molds Sheesh...

You might look at CastBoolits.com for molds for sale.

Thanks I'll check them out. Thought I might keep my habit going by shooting up the 50lbs of wheel weights I have sitting around.

While I’d refuse to let him ‘borrow’ powder, I’d not be so quick to condemn him for suggesting participation in a settled facet of living in an economy that fosters the idea that money can be made on situational problems. That’s not to say one SHOULD, but varying degrees of greed and narcissistic economic behavior do exist.

Besides, our friends do not always come packaged up nicely with zero issues. It’s why we all commit to varying levels of friendship with a wide range or moral estimates and trust.

The reason some stores are getting more ammo and components than others is not a mystery.

During the Obama panic I talked to several manufacturers about the situation, and they said they tended to ship big orders to long-time major customers, whether chain stores or on-line companies, before sending it out to smaller customers. This is also basic economics, as it's a far more efficient way to distribute high-demand products.

Don’t know him, so can’t comment on his motivation.

If he was my friend, I’d laugh at him.

Should also note that cell phones and the Internet have also increased how quickly stuff is sold out. During the Obama panic it was common to see people in the rimfire section of a store taking photos of anything in stock, and sending the photos to friends--which is why the common 2-box store limits only slowed sales slightly. (Then there were the resellers who didn't just change their hat when they went back in the store to buy more. Some had complete outfits in their vehicles, and one was bragging here about that very "system.")

Then there are the folks on the Campfire who post on the Classifieds when they discover an on-line company has something in stock--the reason it's often gone in the few minutes it takes other Campfire members to log onto the site--or pay for it. Which is why many on-line sites are clogged up.

I’d file that under “Just in Case”. I bought some Lee molds and a furnace the last time around as a last-ditch source. Still in the boxes since I’d just as soon do do-it-yourself dentistry as cast bullets (okay, not quite, but I’d rather pay someone else). Got some free lead too. Might dig it all out if I get bored or need some .58s.

Don't know the answers, a guy I used to work with has 30-06, 223, and a 7-08. His wife and kids shoot the 7-08 , he uses the 06 they check zeroes and kill 4-5 deer for the freezer. Pretty simple really I warned him of the last 2 ammo shortages way before they happened. He still got caught with low supply and none availible
Seems he'd rather spend his pocket money on beer and pizza than a box of shells for the inventory to take care of his needs. I don't think helping him out with ammo I had and could spare has taught him anything but call bob he'll bail me out. The ammo companies don't make much more than they can sell in a NORMAL use pattern and production wise aren't set up to double or triple their out put anyway but 24/7/365 work schedule change. They certainly can't change panic buyer habits. The bottleneck is primers why would you sell them as components when if you use them to manufacture factory ammo you can't make enough to exceed your numbers of them to assemble factory ammo with a greater profit margin. That simple and it drives the price up on primers being held to resale for profit. Know how much stuff you need to take care of your own needs do not let any sob define what you need. This is 2021 but it's been the same for awhile " The day has come and gone where, one can buy what one wants, when one wants, for what one wants to pay". That damned simple. I don't worry to much about what people don't have, because they aren't prepared. Mb

As the Bible doesn't say... "This too shall pass".

Yep, and it will catch some of the resellers by surprise, like it did the guy I mentioned earlier who had a garage full of rimfire ammo marked with "Obama panic" prices, after the panic had dissipated.

The "Notify Me" feature of the shooting supply houses works great. Night shifter here, and just got my sleep interrupted to order some mini mags that I got an email about.

But you gotta be ready when you get that notification. I had trouble signing in and called their order number. When I first called they had 43 boxes. By the time I could tell him I'd take 5 boxes they were down to only 14, and we're talking about maybe 15 seconds...

No idea how many they had to start, but they obviously go fast. You'd need to have an account set up and all your horsepower ready to plow when your phone chimes...

If I'd taken the time to take a leak first, I'd have missed out...

I saw on the internet someone trying to return toilet paper after the panic subsided. The store wouldn't give the money back. haha!

I keep hearing that and seeing Youtube videos etc of ammo makers going full bore, but.........I just can help but thinking there is a stink in the air about this whole thing.

the "third time" has been ongoing for more than a year.

Not where I live

As late as September I was able to buy about any common ammo in the big box stores locally.

Thanks, John, I needed a good laugh.

Less than a year here. Last Feb. I bought 40 SW and had ample supply and variety
of ammo to choose. I ordered 2 or 3 diff brands & bullets, no problem.

Now— it’s hard to find ‘much’ of anything. The antifa, blm riots started the gun/ammo purchases and the closer to election the greater Panic accelerated. I didn’t need anything so I didn’t pay attention as to when
the real panic started.

Jerry

Hornady appears to be spitting out bullets. I have had little issue finding them. Two boxes of their 150 gr .308 Interlocks arrived from Midway today. A number of same diameter ELDx's and m's over the past couple of weeks. Also seeing TSX's fairly regularly.

I like what my LGS does. They keep ammunition in the back room. When someone buys a gun from them, they bring out a couple of boxes and offer to sell them the ammo for the gun they just purchased.

I suggest you drive up to Lewiston and take a look for yourself. Yes, while you're there you'll notice the stink of reduced sulphur compounds in the air of the Lewis-Clark Valley but it won't be coming from the CCI/Speer operations!

Some photo documentation:

A Feb 20, 2020 Day Purchased 40 SW



B Mar 22, 2020 Ammo ordered arrived



C. Mar 27, 2020 Ammo at LGS





These pix will disappear in 1 week. ( pic management)



Last week I stopped by just to look ---- much less.

Jerry

Per 22lr ammo in fort walton beach florida walmart - it was late 2019 before I saw 22lr ammo .

Asked an employee there ''why no 22lr ammo''? he said the same guys still come in and buy every bit of it .
Said a couple of women who worked there would get the ammo from the back as soon as it came off the truck - hide it under other stuff that they were going to restock on the shelves , then call the ammo buyers and hand it over to them .