https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7619764/Re_Making_22_HP_brass

I tend to agree.

20ga. As an all around goose to squirrel cartrdge. It pushes the same pellets at the same velocities as the 12. Lighter guns, lighter ammo, lighter recoil. The only downside is fewer pellets which is easily offset getting the right choke/load to pattern well.

I have a few 20 ga shotguns that are light. Great to carry but in terms of recoil they are not lighter recoiling than my 12 gauges. Great to carry all day.

More than not. Its the gun that creates a preference. No one's going to dump their prized Colt Diamond Back because the 38spl is under powered. Or rebarrel their KS Custom Model 7 they waited a year for from the Remington shop because yesteryears twist won't play with todays bullets.


I wonder how many K98 sporters would be still be in 8mm if shelves had more bullets than reamers?

Early, can't argue with that. What's the M94 chambered in? Who cares as long at is sufficient, it's the package that's appealing and effective.

Then again, there are engine guys and chassis guys. So I guess it depends which one you are.

Then there's the age old saying: "D's" and "E's" because you can't motor boat "A's" and "B's"

A 20 gauge is my favorite all around shotgun gauge but maybe it wouldn’t be if I had a 16 built on a 20 gauge frame. 20’s are a great all around gauge and handle so much better than comparable 12’s. A 12 really only shines as a waterfowl gun IMO and to some degree Turkey.

NAGW, but what won’t a 7mm-08 Remington do if properly loaded?

30/30...simple, modest velocities and effective

OGB is wrong but the 410 pushes the same pellets. 410 & 12 have 000 buck

22LR, and then the 22LR 9 more times.

If you look at the thread " 10 most perfect cartridges" you find the 30-30 mentioned quite a bit so I'm not sure
it's underrated.

I probably underrate it because I play 'long' ball and not 'short' ball.

ATST - for guys who hunt woods & thickets with no open terrain it's ALL they need.

Jerry

And predators, though a 20 might work well too if loaded with larger sizes of TSS. Unfortunately at present TSS costs an arm, a leg and a testicle so I'll stick with a 12 for waterfowl and predators.

The one most underrated cartridge is the 8x57. It will do anything a 30-06 will do but is hampered by meager bullet selection and loaded to lackluster velocities because somebody might still be shooting a pre war (WWI) rifle with the wrong bore size.

22 magnum\40g Win HP

243 Winchester=95-100g partition, 80g ttsx, 105g Hornady bthp

6.5x55- Modern action=pick any bullet weight

7/08=160-162g

280 Remington-180g eldm

338/06-PICK

I have mentioned this before, but will again:

The 8x57 is great round, but the variations in groove diameter, older actions, etc., prevent factory ammo from equaling .30-06 ammo in pressures and hence velocities--at least in the U.S. I have chronographed 170-grain factory ammo from more than one American maker, and the real-world muzzle velocity just about matches Winchester's .32 Special. There's nothing wrong with the .32 Special--I've owned two, a Winchester 94 and Marlin 336--but the .32 Special is NOT equivalent to the .30-06.

If easily available, "modern" factory ammo isn't available, then any cartridge is severely handicapped on the market,. This is exactly why the .30-06 tends to be more popular than the variations of the 8x57, even in Europe. I have hunted in several European countries with dozens of local hunters, and have seen exactly one 8x57 used by my hunting companions.

The most popular round (again in several European countries) has been the .308 Winchester, because more than one European country is a member of the North American Treaty Organization (NATO), which standardized on the 7.62x51mm NATO (.308) decades ago. Thus the popularity of the .308, even in Scandinavian countries where the 6.5x55 is supposedly so popular.

The 8x57 is a fine round. I own three rifles chambered for 8x57 variations, including the rimmed version, so obviously like ti a lot. But it ain't perfect.

In this day and age, many of the older cartridges are slowly drifting into the underrated because the younger folks know nothing about them and think that because they are old, they aren't any good.

Examples:
.22 hi power
.222
.250
.257 bob
.284
.300 sav
.303 sav
.32-40
.35 rem

I'll add the 358 Win. to the list.

I have owned and hunted with rifles in all those chamberings. As a matter of fact own TWO rifles in .222 Remington and .257 Roberts right now..

They all work--but once again IF reasonably priced factory ammo isn't available, then ANY round is not going to be popular. Why would it be, if far more available rifles/cartridges will do the same things?

I also don't believe that younger shooters believe that because because those cartridges are "they aren't any good." I don't think younger shooters think about those cartridges at all--with good reason. There are newer cartridges and far more available cartridges that are just as good. So why dink around with all those older rounds, unless that simply what geezers (like me, and I would guess you) like to do?

Espciaily when so-called "shortages" (actually buying pancs) have been occurring regularly over the past quarter centrury.

Because we can...... It's an illness..... I think I'll identify as a .300 Savage.

I, personally, will identify as a 219 DW.

I go to church with a girl whose husband outfitted her with a big 3 1/2" 12 gauge of some variety with a tight choke and she couldn't hit a turkey with it. She isn't large, I would guess about 130 pounds. The old taxidermist who sometimes guided her and called turkeys advised her to try a 20 gauge and she took that advice and right away started killing turkeys with it. She deer hunts with a 7mm STW and does real well with it but I think her husband or son sight it in and she only shoots it at deer 3 or 4 times a year.

Well, yeah!

If I recall correctly I've owned at least half-a-dozen .300 Savages, including at least two take-down Savage 99's and a 722 Remington--and used them enough to know the .300 works as well as the .308 Winchester.

But that has nothing to do with whether the .300 is considered "underrated." As mentioned earlier, I think very few people care much (if at all) about "rating" the .300 Savage these days.

And how can any cartridge be underrated if very few people even think about the cartridge anymore? This is because ithe ,300 Savage is almost never chambered in new rifles (except in a "limited-run" to sell to geezers, which obviously includes me). Plus, factory ammo keeps getting harder to find--because there aren't enough geezers still around who want to buy any.

All of these discussions (including those that keep bashing the 6.5 Creedmoor) are primarily due to all of the "real" rifle loonies on the Campfire being handloaders--and hence assuming that every other hunter in the known universe (meaning their friends) is a handloader as well.

But over 90% of hunters in the U.S. don't handload, and never have. Why would they buy a rifle in a chambering for which factory ammo is becoming less and less available? And why would they ever bother wondering if that unavailable cartridge is "underrated"?

I like my Remington 700 Classic in 300 Savage quite a bit for reasons both technical and not. If good brass gets scarce I'll simply have to invest in a set of forming dies and I'm sure the base material 308 Winchester brass will always be around. I've been deriving satisfaction from handloading for 40+ years and I'm not likely to stop.

40+ years! You must be a semi-geezer.

Handloaded my first round (a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant) 57 years ago, using a Lee Loader--the "hammer" model. The next year I also started loading 20 and 12-gauge shotshells will Lee Loaders. Used the powder "dippers" in the LL kits for a while, but pretty soon bought a Pacific oil-dampened scale. All of this was with paper-route or summer-job money.

Bought my first metallic-cartridge press (from Herter's) in 1973, along with a set of .243 Winchester dies. The press worked fine, but the dies didn't. Later learned a lot of Herter's dies were "seconds" from another company.

Guess I am indeed finally getting "mature"!

Spot on!!!!!

I'll be 56 this year.

In 1977-78 I was putting together my own 12 gauge shells with a Lee machine, and 357 mags with the same RCBS Rockchucker press I have today. Not long thereafter I was assembling Dad's rifle ammunition for the deer hunting trips he got as a result of his work. That was my first exposure to one of the "loads that work", namely 52 grains of 4064 in a 30-06 under a 150 grain bullet.

Here's a negative about being a (semi-) geezer outside of the usual age related complaints. I remember being able to buy top quality brown spirits before that became a hot and trendy market category flooded with buyers who seemingly have more money than sense.

You youngsters need to brush up your experience portfolio. Loaded any brass shotgun shells with Lord Black lately?

Nah, I was born in the twentieth century.

That’s too bad. They were the norm prior to WW2, and are easy as heck to reload. They might even smell better than paper hulls.