I've shot antelope with a 300WM once, felt a little "overgunned", but did make a good first round hit at 347 long steps. The 280 AI/150NBT was good, as was the 6mm/284 and 6.5/284 I used. When I finally get my Mod 70 7x57, we will see how it shoots, but I'm back to as lwt rifle out in those prairie winds. My .243 is Sporter weight and my 300WM/Mesa is heavy enough, but I'm back to the "overgunned" thing.
For the occasional antelope, long range coyotes, maybe Texas Exotics; What is the flattest/wind defying round among the 300WM/130 TTSX, 7mm RM/120TTSX, 264WM/130, 6.5 PRC, 257wby/115NBT, 25-06/115NBT, 240wby/95NBT?
Depends on how far you feel comfortable shooting--but flat trajectory and less wind-drift are not always found in the same bullet/cartridge.
The .257 Weatherby with 100-grain bullets at 3500+ is the flattest-shooting cartridge I've used, pretty much point-and-shoot to 400 yards--where the wind-drift is just about exactly the same as the 6.5 Creedmoor with high-BC bullets in the 140-grain range. Beyond 400, higher-BC bullets at slower muzzle velocities drift less--such as the Creedmoor with high-BC 140s.
Where does the 6.5 PRC with 143 (for ex) fit in there? 400yds is the extreme edge of my confidence (for game), if not my ability anymore! ha With ammo prices/availability, its a toss between the 257 WBY and even that 6.5 PRC. I have some 101 HH for the 7x57 to try (ala 6mm Rem, right?) I even have some 70HH for the 243. How much does "Time of flight" help with wind?
It's easy to find all this out by using the Berger ballistic program. Just plug in the numbers.
Based on using the program considerably (along with others), you'll find high-BC 6.5 bullets in the 130-grain range will drop and drift less in the 6.5 PRC than similar bullets in the 140-grain range at 400 yards. The heavier bullets start gaining beyond about 500.
I haven't shot a big game animal at 500 yards for quite a while, which is why I use higher-BC bullets in the 130-grain range in my 6.5 PRC.
Have loaded the 110 grain NAB in the .257 Roberts @ 3000 MV specifically for antelope since oh, forever.
But since they STILL remain unobtainium, I've been hedging my bets and building up a stash of 110 grain ELD-X bullets.
When it gets good and warm and windy on the dry side of the state I'll head over to my favorite coulee and start seeing what they'll do at 300 and 400 yards.
Good to know guys, thanks all. I really loved that 6.5/284 win wildcat I had, except for its aggravating feeding issues. since it was on a SA, and had the shorter winchester SAAMI chamber neck, I never shot anything but the Nosler 120BT & 125 NP. It was indeed "point and shoot out to 300 (my longest shot on antelope with it). I've played with a few 257WBYs, loved them, but the rifles they were in both required additional $$$ to accurize. I have to come t really like factory rifles that A. Have good triggers already and B. Bedded right/floated. Its why I've rotated a few Bergaras, ha.
I think I am going to go with a Bergara B14 Ridge in 6.5 PRC and if I can't get its trigger where I want, I can always have a TT special put in w/o breaking the kitty. I will try a couple boxes of factory ammo (for accuracy, etc and the brass) this isn't a "Plinker" anyhow.
I've never loaded a Berger VLD anything. Are they difficult to find a sweet spot/accuracy with? How is the Sierra 130 TGK in this regard, anyone? Thanks again, off to Church. Rev Jim
I've shot antelope with a 300WM once, felt a little "overgunned", but did make a good first round hit at 347 long steps. The 280 AI/150NBT was good, as was the 6mm/284 and 6.5/284 I used. When I finally get my Mod 70 7x57, we will see how it shoots, but I'm back to as lwt rifle out in those prairie winds. My .243 is Sporter weight and my 300WM/Mesa is heavy enough, but I'm back to the "overgunned" thing.
For the occasional antelope, long range coyotes, maybe Texas Exotics; What is the flattest/wind defying round among the 300WM/130 TTSX, 7mm RM/120TTSX, 264WM/130, 6.5 PRC, 257wby/115NBT, 25-06/115NBT, 240wby/95NBT?
Sporter weight or heavier?
From the sounds of it, your 243 should work well enough if it is twisted right. Are you able to shoot heavies? However, if you think 347 yards is a long shot, your 243 with cheap 100gr BTSP's or 95gr ballistic tips will work just fine..
Where does the 6.5 PRC with 143 (for ex) fit in there? 400yds is the extreme edge of my confidence (for game), if not my ability anymore! ha With ammo prices/availability, its a toss between the 257 WBY and even that 6.5 PRC. I have some 101 HH for the 7x57 to try (ala 6mm Rem, right?) I even have some 70HH for the 243. How much does "Time of flight" help with wind?
Jim, you may be one that does not like the man bun (6.5 creed), but I'd suggest that over the PRC. Especially if your "confidence" level is not up to snuff. A big/heavy boomer is not going to do you any favors and you might find you will enjoy range time with the creed. A 143 eldx works very well in that cartridge too...
my favorite 3 cartridges with not to much recoil are 257 & 270 Weatherby mags. and 264 Win.mag. , but now there is a new long range bullet the Berger 135 gr. grain 25 caliber so now with a fast twist barrel the 257 Weatherby mag. should really now shine a long ways out i believe ?
Good to know guys, thanks all. I really loved that 6.5/284 win wildcat I had, except for its aggravating feeding issues. since it was on a SA, and had the shorter winchester SAAMI chamber neck, I never shot anything but the Nosler 120BT & 125 NP. It was indeed "point and shoot out to 300 (my longest shot on antelope with it). I've played with a few 257WBYs, loved them, but the rifles they were in both required additional $$$ to accurize. I have to come t really like factory rifles that A. Have good triggers already and B. Bedded right/floated. Its why I've rotated a few Bergaras, ha.
I think I am going to go with a Bergara B14 Ridge in 6.5 PRC and if I can't get its trigger where I want, I can always have a TT special put in w/o breaking the kitty. I will try a couple boxes of factory ammo (for accuracy, etc and the brass) this isn't a "Plinker" anyhow.
I've never loaded a Berger VLD anything. Are they difficult to find a sweet spot/accuracy with? How is the Sierra 130 TGK in this regard, anyone? Thanks again, off to Church. Rev Jim
You'd be better off with a Tikka CTR over the Bergara. Not what you want to hear, but the CTR will stomp the chidt out of it. Think 6.5 creed over the PRC too.. Just sayin.
There is way to much to explain in this forum on what makes a good prairie cartridge. But if 400 yds is your personal limit , it gets a lot easier. With this perimeter , use the .257 weatherby, sight in where your Point blank range is 400yds and learn where it shoots in the wind. past 400 yds is where wind drift and atmosheric conditions play more because drop is a constant that can be predicted, the rest are variables. Long high BC bullets take the variables easier and That is where the 6.5 PRC will shine brighter. If you never used bergers and can get a good supply , they are worth it, but its like learning to handload all over again.
Weatherbys in either .257 shooting 100 grain TTSXs or the 6.5-300 with 127 grain LRXs and a 300 yard zero both give about 420 yards of hold in the hair for point and shoot.
If I luck out and draw the Sheldon again this year I'm taking this 6.5-300 Bee.
The .257 Weatherby with 100-grain bullets at 3500+ is the flattest-shooting cartridge I've used, pretty much point-and-shoot to 400 yards--where the wind-drift is just about exactly the same as the 6.5 Creedmoor with high-BC bullets in the 140-grain range. Beyond 400, higher-BC bullets at slower muzzle velocities drift less--such as the Creedmoor with high-BC 140s.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Depends on how far you feel comfortable shooting--but flat trajectory and less wind-drift are not always found in the same bullet/cartridge.
I shoot the 100 grain TSXs through my Accumark 257 and am pleased how well it has handled the wind to 500 yards. It seems to handle the wind better than the charts say it should. I’m not suggesting it won’t blow but I have not seen issues in 15-20mph winds at 500 yards like you would think.
[quote=Huntaholic] You do you, but Ive killed more of them than I can count with a 300 RUM shooting a 178gr Amax. Theres no such thing as overgunned or too dead.
BSA- you think the Creed is as wind bucking as the 257 wby? Which bullet is the best in the 6.5 Creed? I've owned 3 different 6.5 Creedmoors, and all were extremely hard pressed to give me 1 1/4" 4 shot groups. I've had a Vanguard S2 in .240wby, also 1 1/4. I don't mind "boot n beller" recoil rifles, I just don't know if I want to use my 300WM again. I'm shooting the Nosler factory 70gr 243 ammo very well, is why I ordered the 70gr HH. But I like to take "2 rifles" with me when I go on a hunt. Caprice has me swap them off during the day.
I loved the 6.5/284 but I'm dubious on another 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm still uncertain...:)
JG- I have some 120 TTSX for my 7x57 but man, its been hung up at my gunsmiths for several months now ( before Christmas) so haven't got to work with it. I have both the 146HH and 101HH for the Mauser too. I'm just not going to try to turn it into a 280, leaning more towed 150-160gr bullets.
My last antelope was at 150yds. An hour before, I missed one at a lasered 510yds ( I was up on a bluff, it was down on the prairie_ 90NBT going pert near 3500fps. I missed 6 times in a row! I was shooting through a "Ventura" I would miss over under, over, blown 6ft to the sides. I only went hunting with 9 rounds ( a wildcat) slipped around a bend and popped one at 150yds as I said. ha The wind is my biggest nightmare....arrrgh.
Just to deal with the wind, the last lope I killed was taken with a 7STW and a 162gr A-Max bullet. That's about as good as it gets without getting to heavy recoiling magnum cartridges.
The wind is by fair the biggest challenge here . There are days where a 500 yd shot is impossible here. Swirling wind with gusts 30 mph more than the steady wind. The good thing about those days are the antelope are usually on the down wind side of slopes and make for some what easier stalking.....
So in lue of all the ballistic chart comparisons. use the .257 100gr combo to 400 if flat shooting is your thing, and if not use a .375 CheyTac and 400 gr bullet if wind is your biggest concern......
For pronghorn I have always been partial to my 7mm Rem Mag with 140 grain NBT at 3,300 fps, BC @ .485 and zeroed at 300 yds. It’s quite the zip line and flattens pronghorns way the hell out there.
Eileen and I have taken a bunch of pronghorns, in several states. Off the top of my head, the cartridges have included the .22-250, .220 Swift, .243 Winchester, .240 Weatherby, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, .25-06, .257 Weatherby, .260 Remington, 6.5x57R Mauser, 6.5x55, .270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, .308 Winchester, .30-06 and .300 WSM.
Of those cartridges, shots of at least 350 yards were made with the .22-250, .240 Weatherby, .257 Roberts, .257 Weatherby, 6.5x55, .270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, .308 Winchester and .300 WSM.
I probably have left out a few cartridges and shot-ranges, but in general have found a lot of stuff works, if you know how to compensate for range and wind--and know how to hunt 'em.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Antelope die easy we used to shoot meat antelope with a 17 Remington for fun it was really neat how fast those goats went down. also shot a few with a old peep sighted Savage 99 22 H.P. watch a old Marine make a bet for $200.00 cash he could kill a doe antelope at 350 yards , i range the herd by the shop. the Marine friend of mine set down on ground used a 5 gallon bucket upside down and leaned that old peep sighted 99 Savage 22 H.P on top of bucket bang and flop . Marine held out his hand for the cash it was funny , part of the bet the guy had to go get the antelope alone , gut it and drag it to the shop too.
When I was 21 and poor my Grandfather invited me to go out to Wyoming for Lopes. I couldn't scrape up the money to go but I know one of the party used a flintlock, another used a Remington 141 pump in 25 Remington, and my Grandfather used a Savage 99 243. They were all successful. I went on in later years to kill four antelope myself and one year I took the wrong ammo for my .270 along. I showed up out there with Federal 150 grain RN's. My woods load. And even they worked!
I've shot antelope with a 300WM once, felt a little "overgunned", but did make a good first round hit at 347 long steps. The 280 AI/150NBT was good, as was the 6mm/284 and 6.5/284 I used. When I finally get my Mod 70 7x57, we will see how it shoots, but I'm back to as lwt rifle out in those prairie winds. My .243 is Sporter weight and my 300WM/Mesa is heavy enough, but I'm back to the "overgunned" thing.
For the occasional antelope, long range coyotes, maybe Texas Exotics; What is the flattest/wind defying round among the 300WM/130 TTSX, 7mm RM/120TTSX, 264WM/130, 6.5 PRC, 257wby/115NBT, 25-06/115NBT, 240wby/95NBT?
Sporter weight or heavier?
Mule Deer gave you a good answer. Up close, a cartridge shooting a lower BC bullet at really high velocity can overcome a cartridge shooting a higher BC bullet much slower. Due to range finders, elevation is easy, but wind is comparatively unstable, I would rather shoot a bullet that has the wind advantage. There are cartridges that shoot high BC bullets really fast but generally those involve more recoil. Of those you listed, and without referring to a ballistics program, I’d guess the .264 Win Mag with 130s or the 6.5 PRC would be the best combo of flat and wind defying. That will largely depend on which bullet you’re using. A bunch of the bullets you listed are relatively low BC, and BC really makes a difference in both fighting the wind at any distance and long range trajectory. In fact, if you would replace the bullets you listed with those that have a high BC, it would be a game changer. Someone here on the fire is fond of saying bullets matter more than headstamps. I agree with him. Remember that the rifle you’re shooting must have a twist rate capable of stabilizing those bullets. That is probably the primary reason the Creedmoor and PRC have been so successful. They come from the factory with twist rates that will stabilize the high BC bullets.
So, out of your list, I’d pick the 6.5 PRC. Factory ammo with high BC bullets is available. Doesn’t burn quite as much powder as the .264 Win Mag, so recoil will probably be marginally less. One you didn’t list that is worthy of consideration is the 6mm Creedmoor. Very good balance of BC and velocity in a low recoiling cartridge. In factory rifles, it’s twist rate, allowing it to shoot high BC bullets, is what gives it an advantage over the .243.
You had mentioned poor accuracy results with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I can promise you it had nothing to do with the design of that cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the most user friendly cartridge I have ever used, easier to find an accurate load for than most I have used and more than once, it has been a struggle to find a handload that shoots better than some of the factory ammo available in it. You really should give it another look.
I'll still work up a fast, accurate load for my 300WM/Barnes 130TTSX as I like to have at least two rifles on a hunt. I read a post 'somewhere" that it was not "unusual" for the 6.5 PRC Hornady brass to develop a "do-nut", even after a couple firings. I hate brass I have to neck ream or turn even. My last cow elk hunt, I used the 175 LRX in my 300WM and the Outfitter was singing the praises of his 6.5/300wby. I am not into that one, and the 6.5 RPM isn't readily available, but I like the extra horsepower of the 6.5/06 level ( and up)
Well maybe not the best or flattest but I had very good success shooting antelope with a 270 pushing various 130 grain bullets some of them (gasp!) were not even boat tails. Longest shot was right at 450 yards, had to hold into the wind about 2 feet.
I’ve shot a bunch of antelope with a 257 weatherby and 100 grain ballistic tips. There may be better, but I doubt it, if you are talking 4-500 yards or less.
You've already been given plenty of right answers, but just for the sake of playing I'll throw out the 270WSM/6.8 Western. Comparable velocity/trajectory to the 6.5 PRC plus heavier bullets. I'll even throw you a link I google fued for you.
Edited to add: I don"t have any of these nor do I want them. Your self imposed range of 400 yards makes all of this, a go buy what you want conversation.
I have killed a pile of antelope over the last 15-20 years with a 25-06 to start then went pro with a 257 Weatherby. That 257 was made for those critters. Furthest shot was 603 yards and everything in between. 99% bang flops as well with 100 TSX at 3700 FPS. I am getting close to putting a new barrel on it as it do burn hot.
I have shot several antelope at various ranges with several rifles. They all worked as well as I shot. But the one that gets the most bragging Is a 540 yard kill with a 750 gr Hornady at 2800 fps from a .50 cal Barrett 99. I admit carrying the Barrett is a challenge
I’ve shot pronghorn with different cartridges. I don’t think I’ve ever used a belted cartridge so far. 6mm on small side and 280AI on the large side (308 included). I think a 6mm or 25-06 would be my favorites. Maybe if I re-barrel a rifle I might make it a 257 Wby and try that. Pronghorns are not large animals. I’m thinking their bones are stronger/tougher than deer though. Hit a leg bone and you’d be happy you used a proper bullet.
I'll still work up a fast, accurate load for my 300WM/Barnes 130TTSX as I like to have at least two rifles on a hunt.
This is a dog turd combo IMO for a 300WM, use a 180gr BT or AB or a 200gr AB. my fav is a 210grVLD............the 130TTSX is for the Lazzeroni crowd
I have great respect for 180-200gr in the 300WM. I love the/use the 175 LRX currently. The rifle was a gift ( CA Mesa) and just want to see what it will do. If I can get that 130TTSX going 3500+, its only 6-8" low at 400yds. Now granted, I just got this last .243, and will start with the 70gr HH ( I bought a bunch of Nosler 70 Varmeggedon factory loads last year, for coyotes/brass) then I will start working with the 95NBT and 95SST, last resort I have some 100 NP (I'd rather use them on big hogs, etc) A 243 will work fine where I hunt as I don't have to shoot beyond 300yds, often more like 150yds. I'm just having fun picking you guys brains (yes, I know we are all Loony! ha) ...
Back in the 90s, I bought one of the first Mod 700 ADL SS in 7mm Rem Mag. All I had done was the trigger lightened/smoothed up. I worked up a load with the Barnes 120X (original) never clocked it, but it was humming. Guessing 3400 or so. I had it zeroed for 300yds, and one time (sic) it shot a 3 shot group there into 1 1/8". Many times it went under under 2". Anyhow, I gave that rifle to my Pastor in Texas. We met up in Uvalde for some Exotics. I had a Mod 700 Classic converted from 25-06 to 257Wby, using the Federal 115NP factory load. We both took Blackbuck (his at 200yds, mine at 385yds) I then shot a Black Hawaiian at 250 and he shot an Ibex/Spanish cross goat at a tad over 400yds! Now...a 130TTSX in a 300WM "seems" like a good load for antelope/Mule deer to me? ha what makes it a dog turd?
Damned if I understand why anyone would ever think they need a 30 cal on antelope period.
Rifle was a gift, just an opportunity to get it "bloody", ha. I used my very first 300WM (around '97) on an antelope doe, just to get it bloody too. It was back when the 180NBT was still soft. It really messed her up. I later shot a Mule deer around 75yds and same thing. I then went to the Barnes 180XBT and been a fan ever since, of some iteration of Barnes. I used the 200 NAB in a 300 RUM I set up for long range for my Marine son-in-law "welcome home gift" in 2006. He put a 6.5/20 Huskemaw on it and took a big cow a tad over 440yds. I like the 175 LRX lately, but it still seems "overgunned" for an antelope, even if I don't eat the goaty tasting devils! Whew! lol
Having owned rifles chambered in 240 Wby (a Win 70 CRF) and 257 Wby (two, both Win 70s CRF) I would simply choose a 25-06 and call it a day, the 25-06 is the simple choice and allows the looney to move on to the next rifle/cartridge challenge to be solved.
with some respect i own almost all cartridges in a 25 caliber rifles and if you are a reloader of ammo and shot rifles off benches and hunted a few years its still tough to beat a 257 Weatherby mag it might be a old cartridge but its still the king of all 25 caliber manufatured cartridges . there is no comparison in velocity /speed it is the fastest manufactured 25 caliber cartridge made in America . you want the fastest flattest 25 caliber buy 257 Weatherby mag. you won`t be sorry i have been shooting this cartridge for 20 some years and for hunting deer and antelope this cartridge is Number 1 in my book .
Dale not the same thing, I shot 2 with my 50-140 and 1 with my 45-110. Fact is a couple with the 30-06 & 1 with a 308. But the other 70+ antelope the 223 to 7mm's mostly 6mm to 6.5mm the perfect calibers for the pronghorn. Anything more is unnecessary. My 2 cts worth....mb
CRF) I would simply choose a 25-06 and call it a day, the 25-06 is the simple choice and allows the looney to move on to the next rifle/cartridge challenge to be solved.[/quote]
I've landed on the 6mm Remington and 6mm Creedmoor as my primary speed goat cartridges. I'd like to shoot one with a 22-250 and 62 grain TTSX this fall.
Depends on how far you feel comfortable shooting--but flat trajectory and less wind-drift are not always found in the same bullet/cartridge.
The .257 Weatherby with 100-grain bullets at 3500+ is the flattest-shooting cartridge I've used, pretty much point-and-shoot to 400 yards--where the wind-drift is just about exactly the same as the 6.5 Creedmoor with high-BC bullets in the 140-grain range. Beyond 400, higher-BC bullets at slower muzzle velocities drift less--such as the Creedmoor with high-BC 140s.
That's why I started using my 7mm RM with 175 gr Sierra Game King bullets for antelope back in the 90's. It was apparent to me that using the highest BC bullet was the best way to deal with gusting winds over distance. Kind of like the "Creedmoor" but with higher recoil.
Well I'm happy! Older Mod 700 BDL 25-06 ( blue/24" bbl) B&C synthetic stock with aluminum bedding block. VXII 3x9 gloss with 1pc base/rings (Leupold) mounts, but had low rings. Changed all to new 2pc and Medium rings. Put the 3.5x10 Leupold on it. Gentleman threw in 6 full, new boxes of Remington 120 CLKT ammo (whoopee!) and another 20rd box of fired brass. I still have my old RCBS dies and assorted ammo/brass.
I took it out of the stock, everything looks good but it's Walker Trigger was 5 1/5 lbs. That's fine as I will have it replaced with/love the Trigger Tech Special , much preferring them to about anything else. Main reason is I can keep it light in warmer temps, and easily crank it up heavier (3#) when its really cold ( something about my hands? ha) With its aluminum block, rifle and all is what I would call "Heavy Sporter" weight, maybe a tad closer to a "Medium Sporter". Should help me hold "somewhat still" out on the short grass prairies! I am not a pelt hunter, so I shoot coyotes when I see them (or call them) with whatever I have, I don't care if I open them up like a suitcase!
If I was having a rifle barreled, I am tempted to do the 6.5 Sherman. Should be pretty close tot he 6.5 RPM but with formed .270 brass. Of course that means custom dies and a hydraulic forming dies, etc.
If I was having a rifle barreled, I am tempted to do the 6.5 Sherman. Should be pretty close tot he 6.5 RPM but with formed .270 brass. Of course that means custom dies and a hydraulic forming dies, etc.
Sounds like a hot number. Could even burn Atlanta to the ground maybe
Tried some 270 loads across the chrono yesterday. 85TSX and Big Game powder did 3667fps and great accuracy. The wind may bother some but it ought to shoot flat!
I wrung out a super accurate .270 Kimber 84L Classic, Vortex Razor 2.5-8 that I gave my grand daughter. It shot the 100TTSX with Hunter like a laser...but it was meant for her. She is only 11, she may hunt, she may not. If not, she can sell it put it toward school. I also gave her (for her later in life) a Kimber 8400 Classic Stainless 300 WSM with a Burris FFII. It hummed the 168TTSX. I doubt she would ever shoot that one, but she can do with it what she wants. Its rare and really gorgeous. But I grew tired of both...it was time to move on....let loose the Loony!!!
I played with the 6.5/284 wildcat back in the late '90s. It was purposely built on a SA, with the Winchester reamer for the lighter bullets. I shot nothing but the Nosler 120NBT & 125 NPT. It was super flat and a wicked killer! However, I could never get it to feed right. the last two in the magazine would fly right out of the rifle! Ever since I knew that if I ever went that route again, I'd go with a 6.5/06 (or at worst a 6.5/280AI) to feed better and have the longer action. Its a good concept.
We all like guns and are interested in ballistics and all the aspects of bullet flight and effects. That's the reason we all come to this sight. I like the learning and I like the science. I have been interested in it since I was about 11 years old and I am now 66. BUT............... Such things are WAY less important to hunting anything (including antelope) then most are told in print.
I live in the very center of the best pronghorn hunting on earth and I have killed a LOT of them. I have used flat shooing rifles with scopes and I have also used 4" barreled handguns with issue iron sights, flintlock rifles firing round balls and I killed 1 with a wood bow and a wood arrow. I have never fired a shot at one in my life over 425 yards. Not that I could not do so, but I have never had a desire to do so. I shoot to 1200 yards fairly often because it's fun, (20 minutes away from my home) and I can shoot to 700 yards right on my own land, so I know how to shoot long ranges and I do it well, ----but that's not a hunt. It's just good shooting. That's different then hunting.
In my years of hunting antelope the guns I have used that were the easiest to make kills with are the 25-06 and the 270 Winchester and the 270 WSM along with a few 300 mags and two 7MM Mags. But I can say with 100% honesty that very specialized and heavy rigs with large scopes are actually not quite as easy to use as standard weight rifles and standard weight scopes with no gizmos and widgets incorporated in them. I see a lot of man show up with the most modern and Kevlar stocks, fluted barrels and scopes that are so decked out with widgets that it's a bit amusing, along with bi-pods and folding butt supports and you can tell in an instant they are the newbees in the antelope prairies. The men and women that live here and kill 3-6 of them every single year use more practical and standard style rifles and scopes because they know how to hunt them and when you learn how to do that you'll seldom shoot past 250 yards and when you do it will be VERY rare to poke one out past 350. Those that need to shoot 500-800 yards just don't know how, or simply don't care to learn how to hunt them.
I have personally killed antelope with: 257 Roberts, 25-06, two 6.5 Grendals two 6.5 Swedes 6.5X54 M/S (irons only) two 6.8SPCs four 270 Winchesters, (one rifle with irons only) 270 Short mags, 7MM Mag, 30-30 (peep sight) two 300 Savages (iron sights on 1 and a peep on the other) five 308 Winchesters (one scoped and the other 4 with peep only) four 30-06s (1 with open irons one with a peep and 2 with scopes) 300 H&H 300 Win mag 303 British (open irons only) 8X57 Mauser 338-06 348 Winchester (peep sight) 35Remington (peep sight) 9.3X57 (irons) 9.3X74R (scoped , but the closest kill I ever made in my life was on an antelope with this rifle. The muzzle blast blew off a big cloud of hair) 375H&H 45-70 with open irons two 357 magnums with stock iron sights three 44 magnums, all with stock iron sights 45 colt with stock iron sights 50 caliber flintlock, open iron sight 62 cal flintlock, Open iron sight and a Bamboo long bow with wood arrows and turkey feather fletching (2nd closest kill on antelope, from about 6-7 feet )
I never realized one needed such heavy duty rounds to drop a 75 to 90 pound antelope... thanks for the education guys...
granted I've only ever really shot one antelope.... and that was in Montana....wasn't hunting them, but a friend and his son we were shooting prairie dogs with had tags and were meat hunting if one showed up...told me if one came by, to shoot it and they would tag it....
Let his son shoot it, who was tagging along with me, since he was recovering from an accident he had been in...
one shot at 250 yds, and the antelope ran about 50 yds and dropped over dead...
Tyler was lucky tho... that 40 grain V Max didn't know it was not suppose to work, out of a 223.. with a charge of 14 grains of Blue Dot..
When I've drawn an Oregon antelope tag, I've just taken a fast twist 22.250 with a load of a 68 gr BTHP doing 2900 fps MV...
Guess it was scary enough... antelope wouldn't get near me.... the few I saw had to have been in the next county over....
but have plenty of opportunity to shoot 90 pound blacktails... I didn't realize an antelope is that tough of an animal...
[quote=Seafire]This has been a very interesting thread...
I never realized one needed such heavy duty rounds to drop a 75 to 90 pound antelope... thanks for the education guys...
Oh you devil you! ha I've used a fast twist .224 TTH/75 Scirrocco, .220 Swift, and several 6mms out here. You are right, the antelope doesn't need alot of killing....the god awful wind out on the prairie is the culprit! My first antelope out on the short grass ( read "no wind indicators") I used a 280AI/150NBT/2950fps, and first shot was right at 300yds. I was prone, and the bullet hit dead on...6 feet downwind! ha I missed a total of six (6) nice bucks that day from 300 to 350, wind blowing me and rifle both around. Finally spotted a buck chasing a doe, was able to sneak up to a snow drift fence, wrapped up in it and popped him at 250yds. At no time could I see any indicators either...it disturbs me greatly!
[quote=Seafire]This has been a very interesting thread...
I never realized one needed such heavy duty rounds to drop a 75 to 90 pound antelope... thanks for the education guys...
Oh you devil you! ha I've used a fast twist .224 TTH/75 Scirrocco, .220 Swift, and several 6mms out here. You are right, the antelope doesn't need alot of killing....the god awful wind out on the prairie is the culprit! My first antelope out on the short grass ( read "no wind indicators") I used a 280AI/150NBT/2950fps, and first shot was right at 300yds. I was prone, and the bullet hit dead on...6 feet downwind! ha I missed a total of six (6) nice bucks that day from 300 to 350, wind blowing me and rifle both around. Finally spotted a buck chasing a doe, was able to sneak up to a snow drift fence, wrapped up in it and popped him at 250yds. At no time could I see any indicators either...it disturbs me greatly!
Sounds like you’re just a really bad shot To miss by six feet at 300 would put the wind at over 100 miles an hour
Sorry, John, I don't believe all longer-range shots turn out like this--partly because I remember the video you posted a few years ago of a pronghorn doe you shot at around 600 "for practice." You didn't hit her well, and she lay down, head up, for a while before you finished her off.
Sorry, but just don't believe all such shooting turns out like the present video.
As usual the fire has made shooting critters, don't really matter which critter, hard to do,hard to kill,dangerous, to close, to far, to windy, to cold, to hot, no cover, in the timber, guns to heavy, guns to light, right bullet solves all problems, wrong bullet causes all the problems, sounds like your hunting bullet proof Elk, not a critter that's not much bigger than a Jack Rabbit. all this by a bunch that can't hit their ass with both hands, unless they are on the bench or prone with a bag or bipod, what happened to hunting? Rio7
I still hunt...my average range for Pronghorn is 175yds. Mule deer is 75yds, elk is 170yds...over a 32yr period, ha, so yeah, I hear you Tex, just having fun here....BTW, I'm still waiting for an invite to come cull deer with you ( Native Texan here, Liberty County)
yep we get to see the good shots on this forum but what about the bad shoots and lost wounded animals ? long range shots i have taken them too i have been lucky i found everyone but my son is one hell of a in shape good tracker too.i have let some nice animals walk too because i did not think i could make a good shot . my custom 257 Weatherby mag. rifle shooting 100 gr. bullet 3800 fps looking thru a Nightforce scope with a rest is accurate a long ways out but some times we all have limits from weather , distances , the rifle you are using ,what cartridge and the most important thing your ability to hit that animal and kill it. i don`t make videos for money i kinda get upset with these videos when they laugh , jump around , holler and do hand slaps, these dudes just don`t have much respect for that animal . its very shameful real hunters don`t do that crap they just go get the animal and take care of animal with a smile. >i will mention this too a friend with his wife that had no skills who were with us, he shot a small legal bull in the butt with an arrow and it would have been lost but my son did his magic again. i told my son go find that dam bull and kill it for them 4 or 5 hrs later and a few miles he did they were happy i just shook my head . not everyone have a tracker so your shot has to be a decent shot not just a hope and poke shot. good luck this fall,Pete53
I've never wounded nor lost a antelope. Chasing one down out in the open prairie is one of my nightmares! I am so glad that when I missed, I missed clean!
Just my opinion, but I like this kind of hunting a LOT more. 270 Winchester lever action M95. Open sights, buckhorn and bead. 150 grain handloaded Remington Round Nose. thirty six yards.
I don't take a camera and in fact, I didn't own one for most of my life., But these are just a few of them and I have killed many dozens of them. Most over iron sights. last season I got 2 with an iron sighted Remington M141 in 35 Remington and one with a Savage M9 in 300 Savage with iron sights. The year before I got 3 with two 300 Savage rifles both with iron sights, and one with the 6.5X54 pictures above. Three seasons ago I got 4 with the 6.5 above, the two 300 Savages and one with a M96 Mauser in 9.3X57, again all iron sighted. The list goes on and one going back about 30 years. I still use scoped rifles now and then, but I NEVER have a need or a want to shoot past 400 and in fact by far, the largest majority of pronghorns I have killed over the last 30 years were killed at ranges UNDER 200 yards with out without scopes.
szihn, I'm with you, I killed a couple of pickup loads of Speed Goats with a 30-30 and 300 Savage, with open sites, before I got a .243 A.I. scoped like it better than my old guns but my old guns ain't broke, if I need them they are still here. Rio7
Sorry, John, I don't believe all longer-range shots turn out like this--partly because I remember the video you posted a few years ago of a pronghorn doe you shot at around 600 "for practice." You didn't hit her well, and she lay down, head up, for a while before you finished her off.
Sorry, but just don't believe all such shooting turns out like the present video.
John
Of course they don’t.
Not all closer range shots turn out like that either
Sorry, John, I don't believe all longer-range shots turn out like this--partly because I remember the video you posted a few years ago of a pronghorn doe you shot at around 600 "for practice." You didn't hit her well, and she lay down, head up, for a while before you finished her off.
Sorry, but just don't believe all such shooting turns out like the present video.
John
Of course they don’t.
Not all closer range shots turn out like that either
What’s your point?
Your point is valid--but far more closer-range shots turn out well than longer-range shots. Why wouldn't they? The problems of varying range and wind are almost elminated.
Along with a bunch of pronghorns taken in Montana, where my wife and I have typically drawn more than one tag each for decades, we've hunted them in several other states. I also guided for them for several years, while working for an outfitter in one of the best areas for trophy bucks in eastern Montana. This was a decade before even the first hand-held laser rangefinders appeared, but I worked out a range-estimation system with the scope reticle on my "guiding" rifle that came pretty close out to around 500 yards.
The big problem wasn't range, because I generally got them within 300 yards, but clients not believing the range I gave them. They usually shot over, because they "eyeballed" the range as longer. Of course, many of them had never shot even deer beyond 150 yards, so had no clue. But they also often had no clue about how to shoot from prone, much less over a rest from prone. Which is why I eventually gave them each a little tutorial before we went out.
The other problem with shorter-range shots with many natives of pronghorn country is they tend to drive around and shoot at anything they jump, whether at close or long range. Have seen this many times as well.
But just because SOME hunters miss or wound antelope at closer ranges doesn't have anything to do with my point. Both range and, especially, wind tend to make longer shots more prone to error.
So did OP get a ballistics calculator so he could figure out what is flattest and most wind-bucking?
Oh yeah, I found one online for my needs. Lots of fun to plug in the numbers. I only go so far with ballistics, refuse to get all involved with the intricacies of G1,G7, etc....I spent my hitch in the Army ( Germany 73-73) in Artillery. I was trained as a Cannon cocker, then an Artillery Weapons Mechanic (hydraulic/electrical) in Ft. Sill (71) When I go to Germany, typical Army made me learn to be in Fire Direction Center OJT. We did everything manually back then. The chart operator called out range/azimuth, the Computer (soldier) used the right giant slide rule with the range info for all the variables you had to compute. You called the guns with the elevation/azimuth and the Forward Observer called back the corrections or end of mission. I wore my gray matter down to the white meat! I was "fried" with all the numbers! So ever since I got out, hunting for me means to find him in my range (where I'm confident) or get closer , and use a "point and shoot" rifle. I'm a pretty good judge of range out to 300 or so with my naked eye. If I have time I use a small Range Finder. I've also killed wads of deer/hogs with a lever action 30-30 and semi-auto 30-06 with irons. Love it too. I'm bolted together now, stiffer, so I tend to shoot further. But I'm having fun.
It ain't the rifle, it's the rifleman. Any high BC/LR bullet from 6.5/130 to 308/165 or better at 2750+ is going to have relatively the similar characteristics out to 450 yards.
Knowing the distance within 10% and the wind within 25% and knowing what your ballistics are is going to be way more important, than the difference in ballistics between cartridges.
But just because SOME hunters miss or wound antelope at closer ranges doesn't have anything to do with my point. Both range and, especially, wind tend to make longer shots more prone to error.
Pretty sure JB was just trying to answer the OP’s question; the .264 Winchester Magnum
According to the Ballistic Calculator, even this 25-06 with the factory 120 Corlokt is awful flat out to 400yds. I've never, ever shot at game past 385 and it was nerve wracking then, ha.
i have always felt out to 400 yards with a good rest i and many others can make that shot , its when you get past 400 yards the vudo magic can start and just get worse the farther away a person shoots . 400-600 yards can sometimes be hard but 1,000 yds anyone can get a Dairy Queen score / a big fat = 0 in competition . shoot`n bulleyes can be hard for score.
You guys are extremely lucky to have speed goats as a resource here in Mississippi we do have long deer seasons but deer and small game just about do it!!!!!!
So why wouldn't the .270 wcf with 85 grain (GSCustom) their cnc ,@ 3800 fps is not being included in this group of lazer beam choices? It is ideal for Looney rifleman, it a very expensive, South African made, a bore rider and GS Custom have handloading data on their website. For getting here to there, it must be on the shortlist.
It ain't the rifle, it's the rifleman. Any high BC/LR bullet from 6.5/130 to 308/165 or better at 2750+ is going to have relatively the similar characteristics out to 450 yards.
Knowing the distance within 10% and the wind within 25% and knowing what your ballistics are is going to be way more important, than the difference in ballistics between cartridges.
I'm pretty fond of my 6mm Creedmoor, I think it would be about perfect but the last Antelope I shot was with the 240 Wby mag at roughly 250 yards and it performed as expected. The hardest part of shooting Wby mags, at least for me, was finding ammo. I do handload but factory ammo was always loaded pretty stout.
With your description of what you would use it for.... I can not imagine needing more then a standard 25-06. I have or have had the 25-06, 257wby, 6.5CM, 270win & 270wby. out to ~400 on speed goats and the 25-06 are a match made in heaven. I used to shoot Rock Chucks out in the High Desert out to about that range with 100gr NBT as a GP load and it was great having 1 load for practice, chucks, yote's and MD/Pronghorn. You build one with a 24-26" tube and there is no reason to play with anything but a standard 1-10 twist a spotter weight with a great fitting stock is just what the DR. Ordered IMO:) If you need to go faster/flatter get a bigger hammer.
this year i just got done with a new barreled 257 Weatherby mag. its a Brux barrel ,28 inch , 7 1/2 twist barrel contour 4 on a Weathery Mark 5 action , my reamer , scope will be 5-22 x 56 Nightforce / Picatinny mnts. this rifle should shoot Berger 135 gr. ,131 B.J. or Hammer bullets a long ways out on Antelope if i draw a tag in Wyoming this year ? the G7 is .334 G1 is .650 so the ballistics are there the rest will be up to me .
The first animal I hunted in the US was pronghorn and I brought a .30/06 over to do it. Once I had seen how small and lightly framed they were and looked over a lot of acreage from Wyoming and South Dakota I made up my mind on that first visit that the .25/06 would be a good option. Certainly too, the .257 Weatherby is never a bad choice for any deer sized animals.
I have the 25-06 over at my smith's shop now for a Trigger Tech Special and a skim-bedding over that aluminum bedding block thats in the B&C stock. I just got my 98gr Hammer Power-Hammers in. Sweet! I'm getting jazzed....
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You do you, but Ive killed more of them than I can count with a 300 RUM shooting a 178gr Amax. Theres no such thing as overgunned or too dead.
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