OK, I’m doing a little bit of research on the Internet etc. etc. but just looking for other opinions. I recently purchased a short action NULA In 260 Remington With the initial thought I was sending it back to Melvin to rebarrel to .243 win. But looking into what I have the .260 rem seems like a pretty darn good choice. Only down sides might be declining popularity/decrease factory ammo, and maybe a little more recoil?
Anything else
I’m missing?

Not a ton of ammo but I’d be hard pressed to make a good shooting 260 a 243.

If you’re a handloader there is a good chance you’ll find some 308 cases around.

I've always liked the 260, I definitely wouldn't rebarrel to a 243.

With the 6.5 craze, there's a great selection of new bullets on the market, and I'm seeing 260 ammo and brass on the shelf.

I'm not seeing much .243 - that will change, but I'd be hard pressed to change a .260 into something else in a short action, and feel I'd moved up.

AmmoSeek has a relatively decent selection of ammo for reasonable prices for the factory shooter.

If Remington had done the advertising push on the 260 that others did on the Creedmoor you would never have seen a Creedmoor. Edk

There is a dimensional reason working against the 260 that advertising wouldn't overcome.

If I recall correctly the NULA has a 3" magazine which is great for the 260. What is the rifling twist of your barrel?

The 260 is basically a 6.5 Creedmoor,especially if you are a handloader. I prefer 120 grain bullets for hunting in the 260 and the Creedmoor. Results are identical.

If you want a 243,just load 100 grain bullets in your 260 and you're there.

The 120 grain Ballistic Tip is a sure fire deer killer.

Best general hunting cartridge ever made - right behind (chronologically) the 6.5X55 and right in front of the 6.5 Credmoor. Really can’t find a better cartridge for 95% of NA game (in my opinion) - at “normal” hunting ranges. Rifling twist can affect that some for heavier bullets but if twist is the same there is no practical difference between these three - I consider them all peas in a pod.

PennDog

The funniest part is the Tippetty Top SOF units of our nation is all the sudden migrating back to the 260 Rem for some reason. Not a one of them can say why, but they are shooting the hell out of them all the sudden.

The amount they are using is a blip compared to the rest of the military but it’s still happening. I asked a few friends and not a one can explain the transition from the 6.5 Creed.

I think Penndog has covered the subject most eloquently

Math man makes a great point about the 3” magazine over coming one of the design superiorities of the Creedmore and Ruraldoc makes a grand point about 100 grain bullets.

Unless the barrel is “cooked” there is no practical reason to go to the .243

I'm interested in the whys and wherefores myself.

If their firearms have long enough magazines to eliminate the sleek bullet ogive in the case mouth issue then maybe it's the older, shallower shoulder angle giving better feeding.

Just thinking out loud here.

I'd put a reasonable effort into trying it out as a 260. That will likely help with the decision.

I like the 260, worked great on cow elk 2 years ago and easy to shoot too.

That is my experience for sure. One of the best bullets for quickly killing without excessive recoil in 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

It's a rich man's 6.5 Creedmoor! lol

I can understand wanting something other than a 260 but I couldn't see turning something I generally liked in all other respects from 260 to 243. Just me.

The 260 ought to be more reliable in autoloaders and full auto guns because of the more forgiving case geometry,but extensive testing by the military revealed that there was no detectable difference in accuracy or reliablity when comparing 260 vs. 6.5 Creedmoor.

I am a big fan of the 243, and have never shot the 260, but I would prefer the 260 over the 243 because the 242is subject to rare but troubling pressure spikes that I have never heard explained.
I think the 260 is very easy to reload for.

I see no downside to shooting it as-is. If you shoot it out, then think about a barrel. I like the .243, but will never buy another new one if the same rifle can be had in 6CM. Your lucky find is a perfect illustration of when the “obsolete” ones make perfect sense.

Could be MM. They’re using the exact same bullet (147 ELD) as they were in the Creed. I can’t see a nickels worth of difference myself. Their rifles are Surgeons I believe so Mag length hasn’t ever been an issue.

They get to do a lot of things others do not though, for good reasons and are by no means trying to set some standard. I’d imagine in some experience they had it worked better for one so they drew some interest from within.

I’ve never had a 260 but I wouldn’t pass one up and especially not for a 243.

I've got one of the very first 700 mountain rifles chambered in 260. And I have a custom built heart barrel 260 built on a long action . I have no trouble running the longest bullets through the magazine that way. Yeah I know it could have been a 6.5x55 or even a 6.5-06..

If I had a NULA 260 that wasn't shot out I sure wouldn't mess with it. I have all the gear to load really nice 260 rounds too, I've loaded for a friend's Low Wall for years.

I'd shoot it as is. As a .260 you may have a 1-9" twist rather than 1-8" twist of a Creedmoor so you might be limited to 140s. With equal twists and conventional hunting bullets ... 140 or lighter ... the .260 should have a slight velocity advantage. Twist and higher BC than the 1-9 handles would be the only thing in favor of 6.5 Creedmoor.

With that 3" mag box if I was switching cartridge, I might try to squeeze in a 6mm Rem AI or .257 Roberts .. std or AI.

My daughter has been shooting and hunting with a .260 since she 12yrs old and she's now 22. Her first was a Rem model 7 that she used for a couple seasons. I purchased her a Rem SPS 260 after that and dropped it in a CDL wood stock. It's very accurate and is pure deer poison around here with the Sierra 120gr Pro Hunter.

It is to the 6.5x55 what the 7mm-08 is to the 7x57, IOW a short action equivelent.

I've probably owned 50 of them, still have 24 of them and am in the process of adding another, a Remington 7600, pending a rebore/rechamber job from 243.

Remington made a few mistakes when it launched the 260, almost too many it seems to be random chance, but Remington has a history of making suboptimal choices when designing/introducing new cartridges. If your rifle has a 1-8" or faster ROT you should be able to load any 0.264" component bullet that will fit in the magazine.

As a hunting cartridge it is just another pea in the 6.5x55 or 6.5 Creedmoor pod as long as the component bullet(s) that you choose fit within the COAL specs for the magazine.

If you want to shoot varmints, there is the 90 grain VMax.
If you want to shoot medium game, there are a variety of bullets in the 100 to 140 grain range that work fine.
If you want to shoot anything bigger or tougher, there is the 140 grain Partition.

I like the balance of accuracy, velocity, and penetration offered by the 130 grain AB. I've been a satisfied 260 shooter since the first one arrived on 10/14/97.

The 6.5 Creedmoor handles longer and heavier bullets better than the 260 because its shorter case length allows for a COAL that fits inside a Remington 700 SA 2.84" magazine without COAL issues and the ROT was standardized at 1-8".

Or so it seems to me.

EDIT: Regarding brass and ammo, I have loaded thousands of rounds for the 260, almost all in reformed Winchester/Olin 243 brass because I was loading for the 260 before any factory ammo, component brass, or load data was available.

Was the 6.5 Creedmoor tested in the USASOC trials, where the SP10M won?

I think a lot of people, myself included, assume that the 260 would feed better in a gas gun. But I have no proof one way or the other.

100gr bullets do a number on deer as does the 129 Interlock. The 120 Hot Core will work quite well as do the other bullets recommended. Wouldn’t rebarrel a 260 if it shot well. Probably wouldn’t rebarrel a 243 in the same circumstance.

Don’t fugg with the nula.

Find a 243 or 6 creed Barrett during this dip in the market and be merry.

I went the opposite way. I won an auction on GB for a Ruger 77RL tanger in 243Win, with a really nice piece of wood. I had McGowen rebarrel it, matching the Ultra Lite contour, to a 260 Rem 8 twist. It shoots 120 TTSXs and 129 Interlocks so well, I don't want to go any bigger. I have 7-08s that need work too.

I'd love to have a NULA in 260. I bet Melvin put a 7.5-8 twist in it.

I would keep it as is and shoot it to see how it performs as a 260 especially if your interests are just big game hunting. However, my opinion changes if really want a 6mm. I've been an avid reloader, hunter and competitive shooter for 50+ years now. I've loaded for the 243 and the 6CM, plus many 25 cal and 6.5mm cartridges. If you're going to rebarrel it to a 6mm, then I would encourage you to pick the 6mm Creedmoor. IMO, the 6CM should give longer barrel life, it's very easy to develop accurate loads for and the cases don't need trimming as often - all likely due to a superior case design. Plus, the factory 6CM ammo has proven to be very, very accurate. The only reason I would recommend a 243 over the 6CM was if you did not reload and restricted yourself only to factory ammo. And even with the wide variety of factory 243 ammo, I might still recommend the 6CM since Hornady's factory 6CM ammo is excellent. And marketing hype or the lack of has nothing to do with it.

All that said, I'm a huge 6.5mm fan and have owned/loaded for several cartridges for too many years to count, including the 6.5 TCU, 260 Bobcat (6.5x250 Sav), 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55 Swede and 264 Win Mag. Of those, the Swede is my sentiment favorite of 50+ years and a fine round but the 6.5 Creedmoor is the practical/rationale winner in today's world. As previously mentioned, if you're a handloader it's not hard to accurately load any of the medium size 6.5 cases with 95-100 grain bullets which duplicates the 243 Win.

But if you want a superbly accurate 6mm that fires high BC - heavy for caliber bullets, then the 6CM trumps the 243 Win. It's your money and your choice, so have fun!

I hunt with a MRC X2 in .260 and my daughter has a Tikka T3x stainless laminate in .260 (probably the prettiest gun I've seen). Recoil and energy wise, they're just a really efficient round with readily available brass (if you want to resize .308 brass). There's been a pretty decent resurgence in the round since the 6.5 came out. I shoot mine suppressed and it's a great hog gun with minimal report.

I'm not sure we would have ever seen the introduction of the 6.5 CM if Remington had originally picked a better twist rate for heavier bullets and provided a longer mag length. I kind of consider them this way, the .260 is best with lighter bullets (I shoot 120's) and the 6.5CM handles 140 gr. (I shoot 143 gr. Hornady).

Already there 😉

Ok guys. I was already leaning towards leaving it .260. I am now sure of it. I appreciate you fellas

Good choice, leave it alone. I have a Sako 85 in 260 and absolutely love it. It shoots 139 scenars in one ragged hole at 100yds and they do a good job on deer and hogs as well. Good Luck

If you have a 1:8 twist or faster barrel you are golden! I have both a 6.5 CM and a .260 Rem both with 1:8 twist barrels. Yes, my 6.5 CM shoots better, but I shoot the .260 3x’s more. I’ve been playing with RL26 and 130 gr Berger VLD Hunting bullets and that thing is sub MOA all day long. The rifle is a Savage 11, and is nothing special. The rifle also likes 123 gr Hornady ELD-Ms and RL19, but I can’t get the big hole group I first did with it as I didn’t keep a record of the OAL etc., it it’s still under a 1” gun at 100 yards when I do my part with my current load, I just need more RL19 and I have net seen any locally since COVID hit.
I’m hoping to use the Bergers and RL26 on caribou this August. I’ve never had the rifle out hunting it sure goes to the range a ton.

This was my first rifle as well. Still have it, and sat with my dad while he took a whitetail with it this year. My Oldest is just about ready to give it a go. It is my only .260 but I am a big fan. I’ll get one in a full sized package once the little man stakes his claim on the model 7.

A few comments:

If the barrel isn't worn out, the .260 will work fine in the NULA 3" magazine. I would guess it has a 1-8 twist, because Melvin knows enough to use one, instead of the 1-9 factory twist. I would sure try it (and prefer it) as a .260 rather than a .243.

But to others:

I read the typical BS about the .260 being just as good as as the 6.5 Creedmoor. It is not, both due to the case design and the chamber THROAT design. Aside from the 30-degree shoulder of the 6.5 CM, the throat is shorter, and just wide enough to accommodate .264-diameter bullets, which keeps them aligned better before entering the rifling.

Have owned several .260s and 6.5 Creedmoors, both factory and custom rifesl and on average Creedmoors will shoot more accurately than .260s, either factory or custom rifles. Whether or not this makes an difference to YOUR particular uses is another question, but it's a fact.

I see Savage still makes rifles in 260 REM

I have one of the first rem ti in 260. loves 120 and 125 noslers. deer and hogs hate them. fun, light, and ready to go all the time.

Yep. The Creed benefitted from advertising and really filled a niche that was already filled. Both the 260 Rem and the 6.5mm Rem Mag actually beat the Creed but didn't get the hype. For what it is worth I can also beat the Creed with my 6.5x55 Swede and handloads.

In a 2.8" magazine?

Maximum velocity was not the driver behind the Creedmoor idea.

My last 6 kills with my .260 on deer , antelope and a hog are from most recent are 705, 450,475 ,665,615 and 475 yds. all shot with a 130 gr berger and all dropped with out a kick. If your gun has a 1-9" twist it will limit to some degree the bullets you can use , But a 125 gr Niosler partition is murder on deer to elk size stuff and will shoot fine. I also have a .243 and it sits second chair to my .260 everytime.............

You're yet another example of the typical 6.5 Creedmoor hater who's never fired one--and has no clue about why it succeeded so well. It was NOT about velocity, which is purely a matter of powder room, but accuracy, especially with factory ammo. I would be willing to bet you've never fired a 6.5 Creedmoor...

And no, the Creedmoor did NOT succeed due to "advertising." Have pointed this out many times before, but will again: The cartridge came out in 2007, with almost no advertising or other publicity. But within a few years some hunters started trying it, and discovered even factory ammo was very accurate, often more so than their best handloads in the .260 and 6.5x55. Only after that did the "publicity" start--which was fueled by results, not advertising.

The very first FIVE-shot group (not just three-shot) group I fired with my first 6.5 CM, a Ruger Hawkeye purchased in 2010, measured a little under .6 inch at 100 yards. And that was with factory Hornady ammo. After handloading for that rifle and a couple others, the very first 5-shot group I fired with handloaded in a Ruger American Predator at 100 yards measured .33 inch.

That sort of accuracy, especially with high-BC bullets, matters far more than another 100 fps in muzzle velocity.

To the OP, I've shot just about every brand and style of factory ammo that I could find for the 260 and have found that in my rifles the Hornady Superformance with 129 grain SST bullets has shot the best groups.

EDIT: I've been shooting the 260 for over 24 years and the 6.5 CM for just over 8 years. My 260s are all capable of producing hunting grade accuracy, 1.5 MOA or better, if the bullet style and weight is in sync with the ROT and magazine length limits. My 6.5 CMs are, on average, more accurate than my 260s, but not enough more accurate with the same hunting bullets to make a difference in any hunting scenario that I've found myself in. That said, I am not a long range hunter and a long range hunter's need for a rifle, cartridge, and bullet combination that produces MOA or better groups is greater than mine.

For the record, I've been shooting the 6.5 CM rifles more frequently than the 260s since 2014 because they were new to me and a tinker has to have something new to tinker on.

As with many things, YMMV.

Have had excellent results with that .260 ammo too, in more than one rifle....

Today's SSTs are also excellent game bullets.

If I was starting over, I'd choose the Creedmoor over the 260, mainly for the better ability to shoot vld bullets. But I still like the 260. Had good luck with 95 grain vmaxes on coyotes and either 129 grain Hornady Interlocks or Interbonds on deer.

I switched to a .260 Rem for my main deer rifle after using a .30-06 some time back. It was a Sako 75 stainless. I was amazed by the accuracy of this rifle. It became my favorite rifle. Fast forward a few years and a buddy and I decided to build .260 target rifles from Savage 12FV actions and spinning on Criterion heavy bull barrels. We bedded the rifles ourselves into B&C A5 stocks. Our range goes out to 1,250 yards...Those rifles have no issues connecting on IPSC full size targets at 1,250 yards.

I decided to build a 6.5 Creed after that to see what it was about. It's another great round that is equally capable. It gives up 50-75 fps compared to the .260. It would be the preference for the guy that doesn't handload. All of this to say that there are absolutely no flies on the .260. It may not be worthy of benchrest accuracy. However, for hunting/NRL/PRS activities, it works if you do your homework at the loading bench.

I was and still am a 260 man, long before the 6.5 CM ever hit the seen. No way would I take a 260 barrel off and put on a 243. I am getting 3275 FPS out of a 20" barreled 260 with a Nosler 100 gr BT and if you want they make a Partition in the same weight. That 100 gr BT has many bang flops to it credit on whitetail deer.

I would not think the difference in the 2 rounds would justify the rebarrel. 260 is a great round.

My above statement was not about being a Creed hater. It was simply stating the way things went down.
I have shot the Creed and it’s ok. I’m just saying it’s nothing magical. Edk

Not quite. I have shot one. A deer hunting buddy of mine has one. I see no benefit over that round over my Swede. It isn't more accurate than my Rem 700 Classic in Swede. It doesn't give any significant difference in velocity or performance. A 140 gr bullet fired at the same velocity from a Creed or a Swede will do the exact same thing. The bottom line is they did not need to create a new cartridge since they had existing rounds. Either the 260 rem or the 6.5 Rem could have been tweaked with different barrel twists or powders and carried on smartly.

But had they done that they would not have been able to sell the hype and that is the desired effect. Gun companies sell more rifles (not a bad thing), ammo makers sell more ammo (not a bad thing) and gun writers like yourself get to write gushing articles about the whizzbang round catching on (again not a bad thing) but the niche it is filling was already filled. Period. By the way, they did the same thing with all the WSM rounds.

The .260 Remington had been around a long time before Remington came out with it in 1997. It was known as a 6.5-08. A few years ago on the Sierra Bullets blog the Creedmoor koolaid drinkers were gushing over their baby. A shooter by the name of Mitch Maxberry, ask them to name one shooting record the the Creedmoor had broken that the 6.5-08 had already set. Nobody could then and I don't think anyone can now.

The 6.5 CM's shorter case length does allow for longer/heavier VLD bullets to fit in 2.84" short action magazines and not run into the COAL issues that the 260 has with the same bullets in the same short actions.

Plus, 6.5 CM factory ammo has offered more options, has been sold in more places, and often at lower prices than the 260. Remington didn't do the 260 any favors, particularly so when the only common factory load was a slow 140 grain bullet that was not the best option for their original standard 1-9" ROT. Remington's poor choices, limited factory ammo options and suboptimal ROT, did more to hurt the 260 than anything that they did to promote it. It seems odd, at least to me, that they offered factory loads for the 6.5 RM with 100 and 120 grain bullets, but, initially, only the 140 grain in the 260. A 260 with 100, 120, and 140 grain bullet options might have gained more traction with a wider spectrum of hunters, but they didn't and the 260 floundered shortly after it was launched.

Many of the "new" cartridges that are introduced don't get embraced by shooters and become niche cartridges within a few years of their introduction. The WSMs, WSSMs, and SAUMs all work, but out of the 9 only 1, the 300 WSM, seems to have been successful.

Or so it seems to me.

That is the prime point that people don't, or maybe won't, seem to get.

To be very explicit for the "niche was already filled" crowd, it isn't simply the overall length. It's not having the beginning of the bullet ogive get below the end of the case mouth when the overall length is constrained by the standard magazine.

If there is a cartridge that conceivably already had the niche filled it is the 6.5x47 Lapua.

[/quote]

Not quite. I have shot one. A deer hunting buddy of mine has one. I see no benefit over that round over my Swede. It isn't more accurate than my Rem 700 Classic in Swede. It doesn't give any significant difference in velocity or performance. A 140 gr bullet fired at the same velocity from a Creed or a Swede will do the exact same thing. The bottom line is they did not need to create a new cartridge since they had existing rounds. Either the 260 rem or the 6.5 Rem could have been tweaked with different barrel twists or powders and carried on smartly.

But had they done that they would not have been able to sell the hype and that is the desired effect. Gun companies sell more rifles (not a bad thing), ammo makers sell more ammo (not a bad thing) and gun writers like yourself get to write gushing articles about the whizzbang round catching on (again not a bad thing) but the niche it is filling was already filled. Period. By the way, they did the same thing with all the WSM rounds.[/quote]

So you shot ONE 6.5 Creedmoor.

I've owned at least half a dozen, and shot several more. Here's the very first 100-yard group from a $400 Ruger American Predator. I'd owned enough Creedmoors by then to know what worked in handloads, so loaded some up and once the rifle was on paper at 100 shot a group. That is FIVE shots, not three.

So you shot ONE 6.5 Creedmoor.

I've owned at least half a dozen, and shot several more. Here's the very first 100-yard group from a $400 Ruger American Predator. I'd owned enough Creedmoors by then to know what worked in handloads, so loaded some up and once the rifle was on paper at 100 shot a group. That is FIVE shots, not three.

[/quote]

Impressive... thanks for your insight.
Carl

Carl,

Thanks!

The load used, by the way, is pretty standard among 6.5 Creedmoor handloaders--any accurate high-BC bullet around 140 grains, and 41-42 grains of H4350. In this instance I used the 140 Berger Hunting VLD and 41.5 grains.

John

If there is a cartridge that conceivably already had the niche filled it is the 6.5x47 Lapua.[/quote]
To a one shot and done hunter that may seem the case, but to a competitive shooter who is looking for something that will do what a bigger case will do, but with reduced recoil the 6.5 Lapua fills the spot. I don't know how much Kevin Thomas, the head ballistic guy at Lapua had to with getting the case on the market, but he shoots several different competitions. The case wasn't really designed to be a hunting round, but a few hunters have taken a like to it.

I think you're reading me backwards. The 6.5x47 already took care of the need before the Creedmoor arrived. The niche being a case suited to long, low drag bullets that will still fit into a short magazine.

I liked the idea of the 260 and bought a reamer before I ever saw a rifle. All of my 6.5 chambers have a .2645" diameter throat.
I like the Creedmoor too. I like a little more taper in the case than either the 260 or the CM give me but that's not the way they are.
As far as hunting rifles are concerned, I have a 260, a 6.5x55, and a 256 Newton. All have the same throat configuration and all have 8 twist barrels. All are fine hunting rifles
It was about forty years ago that I decided all 6.5's were better off with a 8 inch twist and that is what I always recommended.
A friend of mine shot a pile of deer with a 6.5 Carcano which he had loaded with 120's at about 2700. It was accurate and easy to shoot.
I would hope a NULA in 260 would be even better. GD

I think I was reading you backwards! My apology.

Nothing to apologize for.

What the “they coulda just have fixed the (insert cartridge here) twist and offered new ammo” crowd often don’t take into consideration is that the new ammo can and will get purchased for older rifles that won’t shoot it well and that will piss off the folks no end. Hence we have the renamed .244, and the redesigned 6.8 Western, right off the top of my head. An exception seems to be the various .223 loads with longer bullets, maybe because so much of it gets burned in ARs with standard 1-8 or 1-7 barrels.

And yet oddly enough, people buy the right ammo for their .223 / 5.56 rifles almost every day. Folks buying ammo for the 1-12" twist .223 bolt actions take home the right stuff more often than not. People buying ammo for the 1-7" or 1-8" twist ARs take home the right ammo more often than not. Are shooters of more powerful cartridges simply not able to make the distinction by reading the box? (Detached retinas, etc?) What do you attribute the difference you perceive to? I'm curious ...

Tom

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

You tried to claim that I had never shot a Creed. I have and I wasn't impressed enough by it to shoot it again. It was no better (and no worse) than my Swede so I have no reason to try and fall in love with it. For what it is worth I also have a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1903 chambered in 6.5x54MS that I prefer over the Creed.

The bottom line is they could have tweaked the 260 and got the same performance out of it as the Creed. But that wouldn't sell a bunch of new guns or allow you to sell articles. Face it, you have a financial incentive to tout the new stuff, I don't.

Face it. You're a dumbchit.....

John, maybe you should show him the huge checks Ruger sends you alla the time. Lol

Sheesh. Hold into the jealousy...

And, honestly, I don't really give a schit if stupid people buy the wrong non returnable ammo lol

MAC,

You also have the time-line and hence history of the "promotion" wrong. Like a lot of hunters, you never heard of the 6.5 Creedmoor until other hunters had already discovered it.

Yeah, I'm in the gun-writing business, but had barely heard about the 6.5 Creedmoor before buying my first one in 2010. It was designed and introduced as a target round in 2007--and as others have stated it was essentially an American version of the 6.5x47 Lapua, which was designed for the same target purpose. But the Lapua ammo and brass were pretty expensive--and unavailable in the U.S., so Hornady brought out the 6.5 Creedmoor, with far less expensive ammo and components.

But it didn't go very far as a target round--though not because it didn't work. Instead the trend was already headed toward even smaller cartridges, especially 6mm rounds with even less powder capacity, because they could drive bullets with equally high ballistic coefficients with less recoil. And believe it or not, recoil can be a factor even in smaller rounds with less capacity, for various reasons.

In the meantime a few hunters had tried the 6.5 Creedmoor and were impressed with the accuracy, and not just with handloads but factory ammo. The word got around, and in 2010 I finally saw a few factory-made 6.5 Creedmoors in a local sporting goods store. Heard from other locals how well they shot, so called the editor of HANDLOADER magazine and asked him if he'd be interested in an article. He was, so I bought one of the Ruger Hawkeye sporters (walnut stock, 26" standard-contour barrel) and some factory ammo. The very first group out of the rifle, with the factory ammo, measured .6 inch--and like the group I posted was 5-shot, not just 3-shot.

That rifle is why I kept experimenting with 6.5 Creedmoors. Along with the half-dozen I've owned, have shot an equal number of other rifles ranging from a $200 T/C Compass to a couple of $3500 rifles from well-known accuracy companies. Have shot and owned the same range of rifles in .260 and 6.5x55, and while some were very accurate, on average none matched the 6.5 Creedmoors--whether with factory amm or handloads.

One other thing I have observed over the decades is that few hunters really know how to shoot off a benchrest. Only a few put out wind-flags, which are essential to shooting small groups in any wind more than about 2 mph--and many hunters consider a 5-mph wind just about dead calm. Very few understand scope parallax, or how consistently holding the rifle in the same way for each shot can affect groups.

I do. Am not a great benchrest shooter, but have been trained by enough really good ones to be able to shoot 5-shot groups half the size of the one from that Ruger American with my own 6mm PPC, a custom-made rifle weighing 11.5 pounds with scope.

We don't know what the conditions were when you shot your buddy's 6.5 Creedmoor, or the ammo, or anything else. But based on my experience I sincerely doubt you got the most out of the rifle, whether due to not trying other ammo, or your shooting technique. But hundreds of really good shooters have found factory 6.5 Creedmoors more accurate than factory .260s or 6.5x55s--or even custom rifles. Have already mentioned my own custom 6.5x55, barreled with a 1-8 twist Lilja barrel by Charlie Sisk, the well-known accuracy gunsmith, using a reamer with special "target" throat. It shoots very well--about like the average 6.5 factory Creedmoor--though not as well as the Ruger American Predator in the photo I posted.

Right now I'm NOT going to go deposit the huge check I get every month from the makers of 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, ammo and components. I would suggest that while I'm NOT doing that you fold it five ways and put it where the moon don't shine.

Wanta take down big stuff use a 140gr Partition.

You get practically the same ballistics from a 6.5x47 Lapua, AND mag constraints are better suited!

I am trying to find dies for a 260 AI, none to be had. I am going to put it on a long action with a proper throat. 140's at 2950 abound in pard's rifle, H4350.

If you get a custom reamer for the 260 that follows the tighter spec’s used by most of the Creedmoor lines the result is a cartridge that’s shoots as well as the Creedmoor but with a easier feeding shoulder…. That is provided you have a really good gunsmith to chamber it the right way.

Mine shoots .5 or less MOA out to 600 yards.

NICE !

Me either, but ammo companies probably do.

Boy, am I glad I've kept my 260 Remington love and Creedmoor hatred a secret.

Firstly, someone with a 1-7” or 1-8” twist rifle really has to go out of their way to buy something that won’t stabilize for them, although I did see some Atomic loaded with 112gr bullets. And IME talking with AR shooters at the range, those folks are generally more aware about the twist of their guns anyway, perhaps because so many of them assembled the rifles themselves. I suspect the Boomer-Geezers with 1-12” rifles are either hunting varmints or getting ready to hunt them, and naturally gravitate towards fast light-bullet loads for flat trajectory and good ‘sploding performance, but that’s just my guess. Most .223s being sold now, aside from ARs, seem to come with 1-9” barrels, which in general will work with bullets up to about 69 grains, which takes in a large chunk of the ammo available, so again folks with those have to work a bit at it to go wrong.

Maybe you can explain to me why people get so emotional about a rifle cartridge and resent it so fiercely when new, incrementally better ones come along? I’m mostly old-school (Boomer-Geezer) in my choices, but am happy to see new stuff with new capabilities whether it’s a new cartridge, magic fairy dust birdshot, or funny-looking fishhooks. It’s all good to me, and I try the stuff that I think might help me out and ignore the rest. But I don’t get mad about any of it. If one of my old favorites disappears (Sunshine Raisin Biscuits) , I find something else (Crawford’s Garibaldis).

It's doubtful the OP rifle will stabilize the heavier - longer 6.5 bullets. And if the .260 barrel is good now, improve it and there's nothing better.

Mr. Forbes is a good enough 'smith to recognize that Remington's decision to give the 260 a 1-9" ROT was a poor choice and would have built his 260's with a faster ROT that would handle all bullet weights.

Yes, and the NULA Model 20 also has a 3" magazine, so could handle longer bullets.

Which is why my .260 is a Tikka T3, one of a special run ordered a few years ago by Whittaker Guns in Owensboro, Kentucky with 1-8 rifling twists. T3s also only have one action length, but use different detachable magazines for different-length cartridges. My rifle shot more accurately after I modified the "short" magazine to take rounds up to 2.95" in length, so could seat longer bullets close to the lands.

Haha! Completely agree! It's kinda like there is no way in hell I'm every owning a Kifaru... It would be impossible for me to be that arrogant.

I have a T3 in 260 Rem as well. I very much like it with the SWFA 3-9 scope. Can't see me using much of anything else for most of what I'll be hunting. It really doted on the now discontinued Berger 139gr Scenar ammo. Looks like I'll need to go looking for a replacement until I get the reloading stuff back out.

Berger loaded Lapua bullets?

Mr. Mule Deer, Sir, firstly, I have REALLY enjoyed everything from you that I've ever read. I would never want you to think I was mouthing off. I have never fired a 6.5 CM, I've owned a 6.5x55 made in 1917 for... man I feel old, now(!) almost 30 years and was looking for a strictly target rifle for giggles and long(ish) range. I fell in love with the Remington 700 Magpul and knew that one in .260 would be much more available than the newest craze in 6.5 CM and, sure enough, my first search on gunbroker showed a brand-new specimen languishing for 6 days with zero bids and a starting bid of just $600. A very small bidding-war at the last few minutes and it was mine for $660 total (as luck would have it, the seller was an hour from my house), when exactly the same rifles in the CM or other cartridges were $1,100 all day. This was before I knew of the 1:9" or even 1:10" twist fiascos, but also as luck would have it, mine was a 1:8".

After reloading for it for just under 2 years, now, the 2.95" magazine would be a HUGE plus, but mine is nowhere close to that so my loads are nowhere close to the lands. That said, this was right at the ammo-shortage height and there was zero ammo available for the .260 or anything else, really. I did find some 7mm-08 cases and I already had all of the other components from loading for the Swede. I made up a few rounds using 140gr SST's by guess and by golly just to get the scope on paper. At the first shot, I noticed a black spot on the tape holding the target, but thought it could have been a stray stroke of the marker I used. At the second shot, I saw no difference and thought I was missing completely. Me being too lazy to actually walk down there and confirm, I started fidgeting with the scope... those first 2 shots were touching (I wish I could figure out how to post pictures). I've now dialed-in 140gr Barnes Match Burners and 43.1 grs of H4350 (after carefully working the seating depth) and I regularly get right around .315" groups (again, I wish I could figure out how to post pictures, but I can email them to anyone interested).

These groups are 4-shot groups (a practice I got used to to get 5 groups out of a box instead of 4). I have them measured with a micrometer and am not just trying to one-up your posted groups. I did get really lucky with this rifle and it may not be the norm (which after reading your results, I'm convinced it definitely isn't). I fully trust your experiences and would agree that this exact rifle in a 6.5 CM may be even more accurate, but I still love my .260.

I am not a pro-shooter by any means, but I try diligently and read a lot! The rifle is far better than I could hope to be. I had a long-range shoot set up a couple of months ago for my 50th birthday on a farm owned by friends from Church. We could've gotten 1,000 yards or darn close, but at the last minute (literally) the range officer (he was stationed with Carlos Hathcock with pictures to prove it and actually helped create the 6.5 Creed, again with documentation to prove it!) saw another farm about a mile straight in front of us with people walking around. Even though the owners had gotten permission, he didn't feel safe and I really didn't either, so 100 yards is all I've tested it to. So my sample of 1 is still pretty awesome, but evidently, not typical.

By the way, Mathman, I heard that Lapua owned Berger.

When ignorance and preference overshadow reality and purpose. Congrats!

After reading this thread I’ve sold all my 260s and 6.5X55s and actually any other inferior 6.5s and am going to purchase the superior 6.5CM (actually all ready have three)……….seriously there are physical reasons why the 6.5CM on AVERAGE can be more accurate but unless we are splitting frog hairs there is no practical difference between them. I understand “looniism” after living here all my life and I understand wanting to wring the most accuracy as is possible for a rifle/cartridge but I guess when it comes down to it I’m more of a “if it’ll work for the intended purpose” kind of shooter. I see both sides and would never claim superiority either way - the facts (as mentioned) do exist but I can’t loose sight of the fact that a few tenths of an inch (on average) is not going to affect the AVERAGE hunter over NORMAL hunting ranges/conditions. To each their own and what makes shooting so much fun - guess the problem lies when one side tries to convince the other that they are “right”………..and in my world (which is quite likely messed up) there is no PRACTICAL difference between these cartridges - I like them all!!

PennDog

As MD said and I finally believed there’s much more to CMs than speed and accuracy for 300 yard hunting. A lot has gone into chambering for longer high BC bullets, etc. The engineering of the CM family is better thought out and executed than straight up .308 family cartridges. Do I need one? Not really. That’s not the shooting I do. And the one .260 we have is far and away accurate enough in the Model 7 platform to do anything we might ask of it as are the 7mm08s. On another level however the 6.5 CM has sure done a lot of educating on the benefits of smaller case capacity and .264 bullets. Many more folks choose them now over say the “venerable” ‘Sem Mag. A good thing.

CAPITALIST,

That's some good shooting!

If you have read this entire thread (which would now be a real slog) you may have noticed that I also own both a "traditional" custom 6.5x55 and my Tikka .260. Oh, and a Sauer drilling in 6.5x57R Mauser, another round that's very similar in powder capacity to the 6.5x55/.260/6.5 Creedmoor--and it even has a 1-8 rifling twist, which apparently just about every European nation knew about long before America. (There's also a "modern custom" 6.5 PRC, but that's another story...) I have hunted with all my 6.5's, but the last one I took hunting was the drilling, which took a pronghorn buck last fall.

Unlike some on the Campfire who profess to "hate" certain rifle cartridges, I have never been able to work up even a mild dislike for one--one reason I have what some would consider many rifles. I also try to be rational enough to provide some journalistic balance to my gun writing, the reason I feel obligated to seriously try new rifles and cartridges (and also some old ones!), rather than shoot a few groups with somebody else's rifle--and then think I know all about it/

Glad you like my writing!

Good hunting,
John

shootem,

Yep, and the 6.5 Creedmoor has done more than any other 6.5 cartridge to provide new bullets, and even powders, for use in other 6.5s. In fact it has pretty much erased the long-time American prejudice against 6.5mm rounds, to the point where the first bullets to disappear from gun-store shelves and handloading websites during this latest "shortage" (buying panic) were 6.5mms.

But I also observed another trend here in Montana after hunters finally "discovered" the 6.5 Creedmoor, years after it appeared: It started to replace the .243 Winchester as the starter-cartridge for kids and wives/girlfriends. This was due to several factors, recoil almost as light as the .243, excellent out-of-the-box accuracy even from inexpensive rifles and factory ammo, and heavier bullets than the .243, which gave many hunters the idea it would be more effective on elk than the .243.

The excellent and inexpensive factory ammo was a MAJOR factor. While typical Campfire members might not understand or even believe it, only a minority of hunters handload. Being able to find a wide variety of factory 6.5 Creedmoor ammo was indeed a major factor in the round's increase in popularity over the past decade. In fact, you could often find stacks of it at local stores--which usually carried a very limited supply of .260 or 6.5x55 ammo, or none at all.

In fact, I cannot think of a Creedmoor hater I've run into who wasn't a handloader, and their opening statement (many feel the need to make a speech) is something like, "It doesn't do anything the 6.5x55 hasn't been doing for over a hundred years." That is partly true, if you happen to handload, and believe muzzle velocity is the only criteria for a hunting cartridge.

Which is another thing that puzzles me about some of the Creedmoor hate: If velocity is the primary criteria, why do so few rifle manufacturers chamber the .264 Winchester Magnum? Periodically some do, and in fact my last .264 (have owned several) was a synthetic-stocked Ruger from a run of .264s they offered a few years ago, with 1-8 twist barrels. But it didn't create a new .264 era--and neither did other older American 6.5 cartridges from the .256 Newton to 6.5 Remington Magnum.

Of course, we do have an entirely new generation of "magnum" 6.5s, including the 26 Nosler and 6.5-.300 Weatherby Magnum. I've owned both, in rifles made by Nosler and Weatherby, and they shot well. But unlike the 6.5 Creedmoor, the ammo and even brass was expensive, and often hard to find.

The 6.5 PRC looks like it might be the next fairly successful American 6.5, but it can still be hard to find both ammo and brass--and the cases are almost impossible for even handloaders to make if they can't find any, because the "parent" case is the Ruger Compact Magnum, also not common. But 6.5 Creedmoor brass can be easily made from several other easily available cases, including fire-forming .22-250s.

Mule Deer, Amen to the two above posts. I have never understood why someone would get bent out of shape over whichever cartridge another shooter chooses. I choose what I want or need without caring what other shooters may choose.

in 2009 I built a 260 with a Douglas barrel on a VZ24 Mauser.
I built a 260 with a Shilen barrels on a Parker Hale Mauser


Finally in 2021 I built a 260 with a Bartlein barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser.... and shot a deer with a 120 gr NBT bullet.


My impression is that the 260 is better for long range deer hunting than the 243 and 308, but not as good as the 6.5-06 or the 280 AI.

That means the 260 is about as good as it gets in a short action.

I have a Tikka T3 with a 1-8 barrel also, bought before the CM craze, and wanted to shoot the 140 gr Berger VLDs that I came to like by shooting them in a custom 6.5-.284. It shot very average groups, and I wanted to get them closer to the lands.

Ended up modifying the magazine like you did, and also filed the bolt stop to gain some length. Additionally, I relieved a tight spot between the stock and barrel, also noticed a divot on the aluminum recoil lug, and swapped to an aftermarket titanium offering.

After the tweaks it shot like everyone said a Tikka should shoot.

Mad Dog,
I’m about your age give or take a few months. Seems the older I get the less I knew when I was younger and not just about shooting. But being a deer hunter as far as “big” game goes I have certainly figgered out magnum doses of powder and recoil are just not required to take flesh & blood animals. And .264 to .284 diameter bullets are extremely effective. Never too old to learn.

I have one 260, the only one I have ever shot and it is a tackdriver. I have to seat the 140 grain match bullets a bit deeper than I like but still not outrageous. If I had a Creedmoor in a similar rifle and it shot as well I would be very happy with it. I don't hunt with it as it is a bit heavy so I generally shoot it when I want to shoot really tight groups. The throat is a bit long for the mag box length but even with some jump it still shoots splendidly. I really like that I can use various brass from 308 to 243 and with a bit of work they work just fine. My only real bitch is the donut thing can be an issue with some brands of brass and when necking up 243 cases. All this said when this barrel is toast I will probably rebarrel to the 6 Creed for no real good reason.

Shooter Two has entered the game.....

I jumped on the .260 bandwagon back when Ruger started chambering the cartridge in the M77 MkII - purchased mine (boatpaddle/stainless) new at the Fargo Scheels for the princely sum of $379. I now own three rifles so chambered (said Ruger, M700 custom, Forbes 20b), down from four (sent the M700Ti down the road). Were I not so "invested" in the cartridge (die set for each rifle, brass for each, and a plethora of bullets) I could see myself investigating the Creedmoor. I do believe it to be better suited for it's intended role as an accuracy/distance cartridge. I also believe it (and the 260) to be an "ideal" starter cartridge for new shooters/hunters. One only need to take a close look at the ammo shelf at your sporting goods store to see.....I didn't see a single box of 260 ammo the last time I was in Scheels, yet they had damn near a whole shelf of Creedmoor loads - that speaks volumes about the popularity of the cartridge.

Some advices to those loading the 260.... for hunting, I've had excellent accuracy results with (perhaps suprisingly) the 120gr TTSX - it just plains shoots well in all three of my rifles, and I've tried most of the bullets mentioned. My rifles also like the target bullets (Berger's VLDs and Lapua Scenars) in the heavier weights (though I've never tried them in the Ruger). If you can find it (and afford it) Berger's loaded ammo is/was as excellent as their bullets and you wind up with Lapua brass to reload (WIN!) - and for some reason their 136gr Scenar L load (now discontinued?) shot extremely well out of my Forbes..

Kaiser Norton


Just did a quick check...looks like Berger is down to one load (130gr Hybrid OTM). They used to offer the 140gr Hybrid and the 136gr Scenar L.

Good post, Shooter two...

I had a fascination for everything 6.5 for some time, built and chambered rifles for 6.5s including the 260 Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 6.5 CM and 264 Wim Mag. After the new wore off, I decided to simplify my life by just choosing the various 270s that I already owned and sold off my 6.5s. I saw no advantage to the 6.5s v 270 then but the newer bullets in 6.5 with higher SDs do give them some advantages when ranges exceed 500 yards.

I remember first reading about the 260 Rem and it seemed to be marketed for women and small framed hunters and that makes sense and does offer some advantages over the venerable 243 but it didn't strike a chord for me. I've got nothing against the 6.5s but I'm culling my safe herd in an effort to have more nice things v lots of things and rifles that I actually use instead of rifles that I'd like to use under certain circumstances.

If I ever own another 6.5, it will probably be a PRC simply because it represents the best compromise of all of the 6.5s combined. More recoil than the CM but less overbore than the WM and more on pace with the 270 Win for most hunting applications.

My favorite CM is the 6mm, fun, accurate and easy to shoot and ammo generally available and affordable (the reason I gave up on my 240 Wby). As Mule Deer alluded, the competitive crowd is moving against the high velocity tide with lower case capacity and the 6mm GT is usurping the CM where it once competed.

Every heard of the 6.5 PRC?

Leave it alone. Especially if it handles a range of bullet weights well.

I replaced a rusted up .244 barrel on a Rem 725SA with a stainless 700 .260 TI (was looking for a 7-08, actually, but this was there...).

It only likes 140's, but I can live with MOA. It's taken elk, wolf, and maybe 8-10 caribou, out to, and beyond, 300 yards. What's not to like?

I can open bolt faces to belted magnum diameter and get fat cartridges to feed. I did it again last month when I converted a 1908 Mauser to 300WM, but that level of effort seems out of scope for comparison to an easy short action rebarrel to 260.

OK, what would that be?

For some long VLD bullets the ogive of the bullet would get into the case mouth when the overall length of the cartridge was to fit into the ubiquitous short action magazine.

Case length vs. magazine length and competition grade accuracy vs. hunting grade accuracy?

The 6.5 Creedmoor's case length is 0.115" shorter than the 260's, 1.920" vs. 2.035", so longer/heavier VLD bullets will fit into 2.84" Remington 700 specs short action magazines without having to seat those bullets deeper into the case.

As has been discussed ad nauseam, the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed after the 260 and was originally intended to be a competition match cartridge, rather than a hunting cartridge. The designers could see the 260's deficiencies as a competition match cartridge and adjusted accordingly. Remington, as they have been known to do, screwed up the introduction of the 260 with the 1-9" ROT, limited factory ammo selection, and not cataloging it in either the 700 ADL or 700 BDL, their most popular rifle styles.

I have owned, shot, reloaded for, and hunted with multiple rifles chambered for both cartridges quite a bit. I don't see any practical field performance difference when used for shooting medium game, assuming that all variables are comparable. The 6.5 CM has a clear advantage in the number and types of rifles that are chambered for it and a much wider variety of factory ammo. Until COVID hit you could buy Winchester/Olin's 125 grain Deer Season XP ammo at many Wal-Marts for under $25 for a box of 20 rounds. Cheap, accurate ammo, with typical plastic tipped bullet performance that was widely available is appealing to the majority of hunters who don't reload or shoot very many rounds per year.

In 1997, I picked the 260 to supersede my 6.5x55s . In 2022, I wouldn't pick the 260 over the 6.5 CM, even though I am not a competitive match shooter, I don't feel a need to use those longer/heavier VLD bullets, and I reload for dozens of different cartridges, so I can tailor a specific load for a specific rifle for a specific purpose.

In 2022 the 6.5 CM is the undisputed champion of the short action 6.5mm bore cartridge niche and the 260 has been mostly relegated to the coulda, shoulda, woulda heap of things with potential that just didn't work out as well as they might have.

Or so it seems to me.

Wondering why the chamfer/angle on the bottom of the bolt race?

None have mentioned the 6.5x47 lapua, and when throated for the 147 ELDM, still fits nicely in the std Rem 700 magazine....AA4350, Rem 7 1/2's will please all!

Ahhh

you often here of people talking about "that" rifle that they wished they wouldn't have sold. Mine is a NULA .260. I never handloaded for it and only shot factory 140 corloks and factory federal 120 ballistic tips. Both rounds shot so well in it, I didn't even bother loading for it. I wouldn't bother to change the barrel on it if it shoots.

Blacktail buster, was it an 8 twist?

One of the reasons the 6.5 Creedmoor succeeded so spectacularly was 6.5x57 brass was far more expensive and less available than 6.5 Creedmoor brass--not to mention ammo, or rifles.

I don't own one, but like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Good design, correct twist in any rifle you buy. It's popularity is based on performance and shooter recognition of that performance, not fancy marketing. Will probably own one someday.

Nothing wrong with a 260, if you love accuracy and don't reload the 6.5 CM makes alot of sense, and even the 6CM.

If you are building a lightweight sporter, which the NULA was designed for, and you reload, the 6.5x47 will likely do all you want. I have shot many Swedes, many 260s and 6.5CM. The 47 outshot them all with ease and perhaps is the most accurate round I have shot in a big game caliber, other than the 6BR.

The 260 with quality brass (just start with Lapua or maybe Nosler/Norma) and H4350 will shoot tight groups at a good speed. The difference in speed, I feel is of very little significance at most field ranges among various standard SA 6.5 rounds.

Good luck whichever way you go.

I'll certainly admit that I could improve at the bench, have you ever written anything comprehensive on this topic? Not to hijack the thread but I'd be interested in some citations.

I'm sure there are abundant references for shooting target rifles from the bench but I'm more interested in lightweight/ultralight hunting rifles at the bench.

Yes, I have written about the subject--including everything from benchrest rifles to ultralight hunting rifles. There's an entire chapter about it in THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK III, available from www.riflesandrecipes.com.

Oh now I feel bad, I own all of you GG books! Sorry!

No need to apologize. Thanks!

been shooting the 260 since 1998.... never saw a reason to dump it and go with the 6.5 NeedMore....

only thing I can say against the 260 is Remington's Brass for it was of poor quality control....but then Remington Execs could screw up a Chinese Fire Drill....

problem was easily solved with the LARGE volume of good 308 brass in the world, and plenty of it as range pick up brass constantly available.

I'd bet 99.9% of all the brass I've shot in my 260s said 308 on the bottom of it....and were ALL Range pick up brass....

I've got a few Swedes and my favorite cartridge is a 6.5 x 57 on a long action.... But the 260 chambered rifles have sure gotten picked out of the rack the most when I go out hunting.....

I've purchased a few Creedmoors, which were on the shelf at a good price....

but my 260s may play back seat to a Creedmoor, but then again, the 260 has ALWAYS done what I've asked of it.. and then some...
Even if the NeedMoors are more accurate, any 260 I've loaded for wasn't far behind.. and I wasn't shooting for competition...

but the 260 certainly was more than accurate enough to get the job done.... Can't think of one instant it failed me where a NeedMoor wouldn't have.

I'm a handloader/ shooter.... and that 260 has done all I've asked of them.. each one of the 5 I have...