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Originally Posted by mathman
There is a dimensional reason working against the 260 that advertising wouldn't overcome.
OK, what would that be?

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For some long VLD bullets the ogive of the bullet would get into the case mouth when the overall length of the cartridge was to fit into the ubiquitous short action magazine.

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Case length vs. magazine length and competition grade accuracy vs. hunting grade accuracy?

The 6.5 Creedmoor's case length is 0.115" shorter than the 260's, 1.920" vs. 2.035", so longer/heavier VLD bullets will fit into 2.84" Remington 700 specs short action magazines without having to seat those bullets deeper into the case.

As has been discussed ad nauseam, the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed after the 260 and was originally intended to be a competition match cartridge, rather than a hunting cartridge. The designers could see the 260's deficiencies as a competition match cartridge and adjusted accordingly. Remington, as they have been known to do, screwed up the introduction of the 260 with the 1-9" ROT, limited factory ammo selection, and not cataloging it in either the 700 ADL or 700 BDL, their most popular rifle styles.

I have owned, shot, reloaded for, and hunted with multiple rifles chambered for both cartridges quite a bit. I don't see any practical field performance difference when used for shooting medium game, assuming that all variables are comparable. The 6.5 CM has a clear advantage in the number and types of rifles that are chambered for it and a much wider variety of factory ammo. Until COVID hit you could buy Winchester/Olin's 125 grain Deer Season XP ammo at many Wal-Marts for under $25 for a box of 20 rounds. Cheap, accurate ammo, with typical plastic tipped bullet performance that was widely available is appealing to the majority of hunters who don't reload or shoot very many rounds per year.

In 1997, I picked the 260 to supersede my 6.5x55s . In 2022, I wouldn't pick the 260 over the 6.5 CM, even though I am not a competitive match shooter, I don't feel a need to use those longer/heavier VLD bullets, and I reload for dozens of different cartridges, so I can tailor a specific load for a specific rifle for a specific purpose.

In 2022 the 6.5 CM is the undisputed champion of the short action 6.5mm bore cartridge niche and the 260 has been mostly relegated to the coulda, shoulda, woulda heap of things with potential that just didn't work out as well as they might have.

Or so it seems to me.

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Originally Posted by Clarkm
Originally Posted by 257Bob
Originally Posted by Clarkm
....

That means the 260 is about as good as it gets in a short action.

Every heard of the 6.5 PRC?

[Linked Image]

I can open bolt faces to belted magnum diameter and get fat cartridges to feed. I did it again last month when I converted a 1908 Mauser to 300WM, but that level of effort seems out of scope for comparison to an easy short action rebarrel to 260.

Wondering why the chamfer/angle on the bottom of the bolt race?


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None have mentioned the 6.5x47 lapua, and when throated for the 147 ELDM, still fits nicely in the std Rem 700 magazine....AA4350, Rem 7 1/2's will please all!

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Originally Posted by keith
None have mentioned the 6.5x47 lapua, and when throated for the 147 ELDM, still fits nicely in the std Rem 700 magazine....AA4350, Rem 7 1/2's will please all!

Ahhh

Originally Posted by mathman
If there is a cartridge that conceivably already had the niche filled it is the 6.5x47 Lapua.

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you often here of people talking about "that" rifle that they wished they wouldn't have sold. Mine is a NULA .260. I never handloaded for it and only shot factory 140 corloks and factory federal 120 ballistic tips. Both rounds shot so well in it, I didn't even bother loading for it. I wouldn't bother to change the barrel on it if it shoots.

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Blacktail buster, was it an 8 twist?

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Originally Posted by keith
None have mentioned the 6.5x47 lapua, and when throated for the 147 ELDM, still fits nicely in the std Rem 700 magazine....AA4350, Rem 7 1/2's will please all!

One of the reasons the 6.5 Creedmoor succeeded so spectacularly was 6.5x57 brass was far more expensive and less available than 6.5 Creedmoor brass--not to mention ammo, or rifles.


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I don't own one, but like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Good design, correct twist in any rifle you buy. It's popularity is based on performance and shooter recognition of that performance, not fancy marketing. Will probably own one someday.

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Nothing wrong with a 260, if you love accuracy and don't reload the 6.5 CM makes alot of sense, and even the 6CM.

If you are building a lightweight sporter, which the NULA was designed for, and you reload, the 6.5x47 will likely do all you want. I have shot many Swedes, many 260s and 6.5CM. The 47 outshot them all with ease and perhaps is the most accurate round I have shot in a big game caliber, other than the 6BR.

The 260 with quality brass (just start with Lapua or maybe Nosler/Norma) and H4350 will shoot tight groups at a good speed. The difference in speed, I feel is of very little significance at most field ranges among various standard SA 6.5 rounds.

Good luck whichever way you go.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
One other thing I have observed over the decades is that few hunters really know how to shoot off a benchrest. Only a few put out wind-flags, which are essential to shooting small groups in any wind more than about 2 mph--and many hunters consider a 5-mph wind just about dead calm. Very few understand scope parallax, or how consistently holding the rifle in the same way for each shot can affect groups.

I do. Am not a great benchrest shooter, but have been trained by enough really good ones to be able to shoot 5-shot groups half the size of the one from that Ruger American with my own 6mm PPC, a custom-made rifle weighing 11.5 pounds with scope.

We don't know what the conditions were when you shot your buddy's 6.5 Creedmoor, or the ammo, or anything else. But based on my experience I sincerely doubt you got the most out of the rifle, whether due to not trying other ammo, or your shooting technique. But hundreds of really good shooters have found factory 6.5 Creedmoors more accurate than factory .260s or 6.5x55s--or even custom rifles. Have already mentioned my own custom 6.5x55, barreled with a 1-8 twist Lilja barrel by Charlie Sisk, the well-known accuracy gunsmith, using a reamer with special "target" throat. It shoots very well--about like the average 6.5 factory Creedmoor--though not as well as the Ruger American Predator in the photo I posted.


I'll certainly admit that I could improve at the bench, have you ever written anything comprehensive on this topic? Not to hijack the thread but I'd be interested in some citations.

I'm sure there are abundant references for shooting target rifles from the bench but I'm more interested in lightweight/ultralight hunting rifles at the bench.

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Yes, I have written about the subject--including everything from benchrest rifles to ultralight hunting rifles. There's an entire chapter about it in THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK III, available from www.riflesandrecipes.com.


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Oh now I feel bad, I own all of you GG books! Sorry!

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Originally Posted by Pabst
Oh now I feel bad, I own all of you GG books! Sorry!

No need to apologize. Thanks!


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by mathman
I'm interested in the whys and wherefores myself.

If their firearms have long enough magazines to eliminate the sleek bullet ogive in the case mouth issue then maybe it's the older, shallower shoulder angle giving better feeding.

Just thinking out loud here.

Could be MM. They’re using the exact same bullet (147 ELD) as they were in the Creed. I can’t see a nickels worth of difference myself. Their rifles are Surgeons I believe so Mag length hasn’t ever been an issue.

They get to do a lot of things others do not though, for good reasons and are by no means trying to set some standard. I’d imagine in some experience they had it worked better for one so they drew some interest from within.

I’ve never had a 260 but I wouldn’t pass one up and especially not for a 243.

been shooting the 260 since 1998.... never saw a reason to dump it and go with the 6.5 NeedMore....

only thing I can say against the 260 is Remington's Brass for it was of poor quality control....but then Remington Execs could screw up a Chinese Fire Drill....

problem was easily solved with the LARGE volume of good 308 brass in the world, and plenty of it as range pick up brass constantly available.

I'd bet 99.9% of all the brass I've shot in my 260s said 308 on the bottom of it....and were ALL Range pick up brass....

I've got a few Swedes and my favorite cartridge is a 6.5 x 57 on a long action.... But the 260 chambered rifles have sure gotten picked out of the rack the most when I go out hunting.....


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“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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Originally Posted by 260Remguy
To the OP, I've shot just about every brand and style of factory ammo that I could find for the 260 and have found that in my rifles the Hornady Superformance with 129 grain SST bullets has shot the best groups.

EDIT: I've been shooting the 260 for over 24 years and the 6.5 CM for just over 8 years. My 260s are all capable of producing hunting grade accuracy, 1.5 MOA or better, if the bullet style and weight is in sync with the ROT and magazine length limits. My 6.5 CMs are, on average, more accurate than my 260s, but not enough more accurate with the same hunting bullets to make a difference in any hunting scenario that I've found myself in. That said, I am not a long range hunter and a long range hunter's need for a rifle, cartridge, and bullet combination that produces MOA or better groups is greater than mine.

For the record, I've been shooting the 6.5 CM rifles more frequently than the 260s since 2014 because they were new to me and a tinker has to have something new to tinker on.

As with many things, YMMV.

I've purchased a few Creedmoors, which were on the shelf at a good price....

but my 260s may play back seat to a Creedmoor, but then again, the 260 has ALWAYS done what I've asked of it.. and then some...
Even if the NeedMoors are more accurate, any 260 I've loaded for wasn't far behind.. and I wasn't shooting for competition...

but the 260 certainly was more than accurate enough to get the job done.... Can't think of one instant it failed me where a NeedMoor wouldn't have.

I'm a handloader/ shooter.... and that 260 has done all I've asked of them.. each one of the 5 I have...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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