I think I remember you saying that you are not a fan of electronic scales.

Do you weigh all your charges? What about your bench rest rifle?

Have you researched what difference a tenth or two of powder has on precision out to 500 yards? 1000 yards? Affect on extreme spread?

I have seen some lab grade scales for sale that claim charges are within a hundredth of a grain. Most, like RCBS are within a tenth.

I ask all this because I use a Hornady electric scale that is just ok. A little slow and sometimes needs tweaking. Thinking about upgrading, but not to lab grade stuff. I also have a ohaus 1010 scale but have not used it in a while.

Yes, I weigh charges when working up loads, and sometimes double-check them on both balance and electronic scales--as well as mechanical powder measures.

Have several mechanical measures, including a Culver-converted Lyman which Ken Oehler generously gave me several years ago. It is more accurate than 99% of the electronic scales I've tested with small-grained powders.

That said, there have been great advances in "affordable" digital scales since they first appeared, both in consistent accuracy and speed. One of the reasons I kept using mechanical measures was their accuracy was at least as good--and much faster--than similarly priced e-scales. But was recently sent a new e-scale from a well-known company, which they claim is far faster and as accurate as similarly-priced mechanical measures. Will be testing it soon.

Not Mule Deer but I weigh every charge on my 1010 scale. Last year I bought a $29.95 electronic scale to speed up preliminary weight sorting of brass. I didn’t expect much but was pleasantly surprised to be wrong. The little guy is dead accurate each time I use it. I test before usage with RCBS scale check weights. No hiccups.

Start a thread on it. I'm interested. I average about 6 seconds to charge a case, when dropping light and trickling the rest in. However with that being said, I don't 100% trust a digital scale. Just 1 of the reasons I still use a beam scale.

I weigh all of mine, dispensed with a Chargemaster Lite. Has a few quirks, but it always agrees when checked against an old e-scale sitting next to it. I’m not in a hurry, and it usually has the next one ready just about the time I get done seating the bullet in the previous one. Also have a Little Dandy, but getting the right rotor for the exact charge I want is a bit iffy, plus it doesn’t do Trail Boss very well. I have a couple balance beams in my stash in case I need to load some up during a power failure or Apocalypse. Sold a BR-30 that had been given to me as I never really got the consistency I wanted, my fault no doubt, but no matter. The CM Lite is just simpler for me.

I find the balance beam to be faster than I thought it would be when I first started reloading (RCBS 5-10). On a digital scale I often find myself checking and re-checking my notes to remind myself that 56.8 grains of powder (example) is what I'm after. With the balance beam, I set it, then I just work towards the balance point. Saves me from constantly checking the yellow sticky I placed on the bench right under my nose. It ended up making improvement to my own process and procedure. I still have a digital, but I use it far less often than I do my beam scale.

Same here. I just incorporated it into my routine. I seat the bullet while the next charge is weighing out.....

Depends on the powder for me. Ball powders and fine stick powders like 4227 get dumped straight from my Harrell's measure into the cases once that sweetheart of a measure is set. Ditto fine flaked pistol powders like Bullseye out of my Belding&Mull. Coarse grained IMR powders, for example, that measure unevenly get check-weighed but even then the variations are surprisingly minimal and even then if I'm loading bulk ammo for the Garand, for example, I dispense with the weighing.

I'll be darned if I can tell a difference between weighed and measured charges if the powder is cooperating in the measure. Sometimes I let rational thought override anal-ness.

I use to seat the bullet while the next charge is weighing out, but found that the jerking and jarring of seating the bullet made my e-scale drift. If I keep a reloading table steady my e-scale stays on calibration.

Not a gun writer, but I weigh every hunting bullet, but for varmints smaller than coyotes I load directly into the case, same with pistol.

One thing that you won't,or at least very seldom see at a serious benchrest match is scales,and all competitors load at the range. They do uses fine or ball powder and super accurate powder dumps like Harrel's or Culver conversions.

Started out using a 1010, then bought a RCBS Chargemaster. Didn't initially trust the Chargemaster due to stories/anecdotal evidence I read on the internet about the inconsistencies, inaccuracies. Much to my surprise, I found the Chargemaster to be more accurate than the 1010 when using calibration weights as a guide. Put the 1010 back in it's box about 12 years ago and haven't used it since.

I’ve been watching for that, but doesn’t seem to be a problem with the CM. I do try to get the seating over before the end of the dump, to avoid jarring any extra. powder out of the tube. Sometimes I ”trickle” by tapping the tube gently with a Lee scoop instead of with the button.

If a particular powder is giving me occasional “overs”, I leave the top off the hopper and scoop out a bit and throw it back in.

AGREED and this, >this is what i seen and was involved when i shot benchrest everyone there volume loaded and shot very well too. the best shooter i ever seen at a National match was a shooter from out east maybe Penn state ? , he never used any real expensive reloading equipment and just kept it very simple all Redding equipment like a standard Redding 3 die set , Redding bench rest powder measure ,no powder scale he just look at what he thought was best amount of powder in case for the time and temp of the day. this shooter cleaned his rifle with aluminum rods too. best shooter i have seen shoot and he won everything that weekend. was a hell of alot of fun in the bar that night too ! havea couple other friends who benchrest shoot and only volume loaded and all ammo factories volume load too. so for the last 25 -30 years i only volume load too, my groups have always been great volume loading too , but i am no expert . to me with the right powder volume loading is much more simple and faster.

It’s funny how benchresters are always brought up. Early 90’s I shot with a guy who wrote for precision shooter or some similar benchrest mag and I asked what charge he was using in his 6 PPC, answer was I don’t know. I must of had a real confused look as he quantified it, “I take a primed case and scoop it full of powder then scrape it flat to the case mouth with a popsicle stick then seat a bullet.” Never have weighed it. 😂

Had another one say it a different way, “If it doesn’t group keep adding powder till it does.”

They be a strange bunch.

I use the chargemaster, double check with another scale.

I weigh loads for testing & for actual hunting ammo; not for anything else, but for the most part, I attempt to end up with a powder that measures well, especially for smaller capacity cases like a 223.

MM

and as it got warmer they would talk like i think its time to drop a couple of tenths of a grain sense its getting so hot ,then they would look in the case and say that looks about right. after seeing and talking with these bench shooters i decided to use the right type powders and just volume load too. have another good friend who still shoots 600 yard bench shoots and always does well with a 6 B.R. and he has always volume loaded said waste of time weighing powder.

When I started handloading I weighed every charge with my Redding #2 scale because I couldn't afford a measure. When I could afford a measure, I would use the scale to get the measure set right, then weight about every 10th load to be sure the measure was holding. Now, I check my measure setting and fine tune it if necessary, load a hundred or two and that's that.

I do the seating while dispensing and e-weighting as y'all do. I'm on a concrete floor with the press directly in front of my right hand, primed brass and bullets along with a box for loaded directly in front of me, and the dispenser/scale 90 degrees to my left on a separate small table. Sitting on a swivel stool makes it simple and efficient. Concrete floor and separate stand for dispenser/scale keeps the scale from needing to be recalibrated. Timing is about perfect.

Very interesting conversation. Thanks all...

Lee scoops, drug through a Speer plastic bullet box full of powder, and then carded off with a business card.

Precise and consistent - just lacks a little fine tuning capacity for velocity.

But they have generally been extremely precise.




GR

I have shot a lot of Federal Gold Match 308. I have managed to load ammo that was as accurate as the FGM but have never beat their average accuracy across multiple different rifles. I know at the volume they load they can not be weighing charges. Does any one know how they they manage their boring consistency with dropped powder charges??

by the way I am sure they use IMR 4064 a stick powder that is not known for being powder measure friendly ??

Well developed loads assembled into straight cartridges aren't hypersensitive to charge variation. If you have several other ducks in a row and start to shoot long range, then you may see vertical dispersion from charge variation.

Yeah, just dump powder in there until it looks right.

Hilarious!!!!

My take on it is that I want good accuracy with the equipment and components I choose.

I use a Chargemaster for most stick powders and a Uni-Flow with baffle for powders that meter well. Whatever the precision of my equipment may or may not provide, I seek combinations that DO work and are compatible with my methods. If I shot over 500 yards, I might change up my methods and techniques (or maybe not) but until then I discard the combinations that don't work and go with those that do seem to work. I'm happy with my results.

well that is just what bench rest shooters do and you may laugh but you will never beat them for group size .

What makes you so sure ?

Of course not

I have several cases soldered to a spike, cut/ground until they throw the charge i want. Start with a weighed charge, dump it in the case, mark the top, and cut right above that. Fine tune from there.



Have balance and digital scales.

Balance is more dependable, and much quicker for checking weight.
You aren't really weighing it, you are just looking to hit zero.


Digital is the schiz when you want to know what something weighs.

Zero it.
Set the object on,
Bingo, what it weighs.
No sliding weights, turning adjustments, waiting for it to settle after every
adjustment, before making the next.

What the Average Joe misses —-

Precision (consistency when you throw) is WAY more important than precisions.. Because you sight in with what ever ammo you are shooting, and re zero every year…

The VERY best thing you can do here is to throw 25 tho 30 rounds and then weight those charges to see how consistent you are….

- If you use a dispenser to throw cartridges you will find your first 18 or so throws will vary from the rest because the friction from the powder column moving as you start to throw hasn’t stabilized yet…. Especially with a progressive like the Dillon - throw 15 cartridges and dump the powder back in the measure.. Then start loading..

- Realize how long the powder measure sat impacts your throw…
- Realize how you move and what you do between throws impacts things.

- With a electronic scale, where the powder / powder cup sets on the scale impacts it’s ability to measure.
- Realize that electronic scales drift over time - so load it all at one time vs days.
- Leave them plugged in a LONG time before you measure.
- MD was dead nuts on… better measure mechanisms are now available.

Like I said - throw powder and measure it in quick succession to avoid drift on your scale, and be consistent about where you put the cup and powder in the cup.


Accuracy wise - have good certified weights…. And or keep a powder charge (reference weight) to double check your scale.


Full disclosure - I’m upgrading from an RCBS powder scale / dispenser to an Autotrickler that has .001 accuracy.

Why do we keep living in the 90’s?

Because 2 shot groups don't mean a lot....

I weigh everything, rifle, pistol, shotshell, every bullet, every primer and every case. I even weigh my rifle after each shot.

Can't be too careful.

Well, I don't actually do that, Trixie does all my reloading and she does, without fail.

Forgot to mention, Trixie anneals them cases, rifle and pistol, every time they're fired. Shotshells, every other.

nice video ,i would like see 5 cases used for group instead of the same case . use the 6 BR cartridge, Lapua brass which is more common in America. but thanks for posting this neat video ,Pete53

Federal Catridge blend their powders we can not do that safely, nor can we buy what powders they use . Federal volume loads all their ammo they sell to the public.