Just wondering if someone can shed some light on loads with the 6.5x55 and 129-130 grain projectiles. I see the saami spec is 51,000 but the creed is running 62,000. Seems to me there is some upside with the old girl. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. 👍

There are several basic rules of internal ballistics that can be used to calculate approximate potential velocities that roughly reflect pressures, but one problem with the 6.5x55 is chamber throat length can vary considerably, from the original military one designed for heavy, very long round-nosed bullets, to much shorter "modern" throats. These have a considerable effect on pressures and hence velocities.

That said, my own custom 6.5x55 is built on a commercial FN Mauser action, with a 21-inch, 1-8 twist Lilja barrel, using a "modern" short-throated reamer. Have found it easy to get 2700 fps with 140s even in the "short" barrel, and 2850-2900 with bullets in the 130-grain range. A 24-inch barrel would add 50-100 fps to those velocities, depending on the bullet and powder.

I've used Ramshot's data for many years, which has an approximate limit of 55,000 PSI, by adding a grain or two of powder. My standard 140-grain load is 50.0 grains of Magnum, which is two grains over their listed max. No problems.

The upside for me is still perceptible. I am not one of those who makes fun of the Creedmore, primarily because I have not used one. But, for the most part (the practical part), my "sporterized" old M96 carbine with careful loading will perform just as well. 130 gr. to 140 gr.

I did pay $50 for it in 1964 and did spend a few dollars on drill/tap, bolt handle mod and my own stock work. Seems like a good upside.

LowBC

There is a lot of info per "Good Loads For 6.5X55.

Scroll down on the Forum Home Page.

The Third Section entitled "Reloading", The First Forum is for ...."Big Game Rifles"

In the Top section are the 'Sticky' subjects in Reloading. Several cartridges are listed with loads & discussions.

Scroll Down and you'll see: " Good 6.5X55 Loads " There are 25 Pages listed.
Plenty Info and Great loads for the Swede.

Good Luck

Jerry

My 6.5 Swede still has the original barrel on it cut down to the 1st step. I think I paid about $69 for it. I found mine shoots the 130 gr Nosler Accubond the best. It is the longest bullet in that weight class I could find. So it matches that long throat that used the old 175 gr round noses. I think it matches the twist rate better too. I think is 9.3 or ?. I did get great accuracy using the 140 gr GK also ,but nothing lighter.

I take no responsibility for others using these loads

My loads are 47 gr of H4831 for about 2800fps

The 140gr GK, 46 gr of H4831 for about 2650

These readings were from and old Chrony

Both gave about 3/4 " groups at 100 yards.

Xeroed at 300 yards and has a Leupold Fix 6X scope on it, Timney Trigger ,cocking conversion, 3 three position safety, Richard's glass bedded stock. I turned down the bolt myself and did all the other work.

It is my main pronghorn rifle, I shoot a few eastern plains deer with it too.

My Swede is built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser with a 24 inch barrel. I don't remember the twist rate but it's set up for bullets in the 140gr range. I let the rifle tell me when to stop with the load. IIRC the most accurate load using 139gr Hornady's is a grain over max

I shoot a "modern" 6.5x55 Norwedish (Ruger 1A) and think of it as easily outdoing a 100 year old Swedish Mauser pressure-handling wise. It has a throat somewhere in length between a mil-spec throat and JB's "short" throat. Even with all that I'm happy as a clam in shooting loads that would be at home in a Swedish Mauser. 47.0gr. IMR-4831/either 129 Hornady or 130 Berger and the same powder charge with 139 Scenars - all seated out to a point that they won't feed through a Mauser. Velocity is just under 2800fps with the 129/130's and nipping at 2700 fps with the Scenars - all with wonderful sub-MOA easy on the shoulder accuracy, and excellent case life to boot. Go faster safely? Sure, but what's the point when I have no opportunity or intention to whack an animal a quarter mile away.

LowBC;
Good early morning to you sir, I see it's about 2:20AM for you so I hope you're not awake for this, but do hope when you read it all is well as can be.

We've been fooling with the Swede for 40 years now, handloading for one since the mid '80's. It was a near new Carl Gustav 96 that I modified into a lightweight and light recoiling hunting rifle for my late father, who passed it to our eldest daughter.




She's since swapped a 2-7 Compact scope onto it and I've installed a Dayton Traister cock on open kit and trigger. It's got a 20" barrel.

We were so pleased with how well that rifle worked on local mulie and whitetail bucks that I ended up rebarreling a 98 commercial roll marked Mauser action with a clean 96 Swede barrel. Like Mule Deer's it's got a 21" barrel.



For about 15 years we've switched to using monometal bullets for hunting, so that's another factor I'd think?

Again I'll echo John's experience with the velocities with 140gr and 130gr bullets. I've been using 120gr TTSX and GMX the past couple of seasons and if memory serves they can be driven to 2950fps without things looking too weird in the 98 action.

We've been shooting 130gr TSX in the 96 for the entire time we switched to monos and I want to say - again without looking - that they're 2650fps in her rifle.

If I remember later I'll dig through the reloading notes and confirm.

Her rifle has the military chamber with a very long throat, while mine was done by a smith up the valley and seems to have a tad shorter one.

We tend to use powders in the IMR4350, RL 19, VV550, VV560, IMR 4831 sort of burn rates and despite the shorter barrels we're getting okay velocities and decent accuracy.

A shooting buddy has a 6.5 Creed in a Ruger American Predator and honestly while I'd not trade him, it will consistently be more accurate than either of ours. Again his is a new hammer forged barrel - apparently a good one too - and ours are military barrels that in the case of her rifle is nearly 120 years old.

Hopefully some of that's useful to you or someone out in the ether space.

All the best.

Dwayne

My take on this and similar situations with other old-timers (guns, not the owners!), is that they’re well-worth futzing with and can perform very well, better than many would suspect, BUT charm, panache, nostalgia etc, aside, there’s also a lot to be said for taking the easy path with a modern rifle/cartridge combo. I have a pretty well-balance mix of the old and new and like it all, and it also keeps me from sitting home fussing about not being able to feed my toys. Saw a nice 141 in .35 last week, attractively priced, but when I got home and checked ammoseek.com, they showed nary a single source for ammunition.

I’d like to get a nice M38 some day, both to shoot and admire, and standard-performance ammo will suit me just fine. A fellow that appears regularly at the nearby public range has several Swedes, and they’re lovely things that shoot very well indeed.

Would like to see pics of any of the rifles mentioned here, if not too much trouble.

Most 6.5x55 factory ammo and load data has a lower pressure ceiling in respect for the Norwegian Krags that are floating around. Even if the Norwegian Krags have better metallurgy than the U.S. Krags, the one-lug design doesn't inspire a ton of confidence if you want to push pressure and performance above the design specs.

I'd never loaded or shot a 6.5x55 till last fall when my son cheesy picked up a new Win shot show special 1885 Low Wall so chambered. Since that model is also chambered in 243 and 260 if I remember correctly, I figured it would take more than load manual pressures. The only two bullets we had to work with were the 120 BT and 129 Interlock. Worked up loads in Lapua cases with A4350, H4350, H4831sc, and one with Varget with the 120BT. Even at slightly over book loads I wasn't getting the speed they listed, makes me think the old Pro-Chrono is off somewhat. Accuracy was no problem, if I wasn't well covered in different cartridges I'd be looking at one myself.

Are you thinking about firing them in a milsurp or a commercial rifle? Or just wondering about the cartridge generally?

BC30cal, you've shared the photo of the 96 before, I think it's a cool looking rifle.

You like pictures? Me too.. :




This is what you call an old rifle. A Carl Gustav m96 6.5x55. I don't run hot loads in the girl. Just fairly accurate ones. The only reason I bought it was for my clubs military rifle shoots. They used to have them once a month and they are enough fun that I decided to keep the old girl around for a bit longer. We get some shooters from Portland and Vancouver and other places near by and I'm happy to report, this rifle holds it's own against them all. Had some high up shooters (master class) offer me $800 for the rifle last time. Don't know if they were trying to buy me out of the comp or if they really wanted the rifle... ???


Its no slouch. I generally put them all in the 10 ring and scare some into the X as well.


Not real hard to do with a rifle of this caliber. Again, I don't load them hot in this old girl. As this action is not nearly as strong as say a Mauser 98 or other actions built in the early 1900's, like my favorite m1917. In most load manuals, they warn against running real hot loads in the m96, but to each their own.. Here's some groups shot during load development:





Mine does well with many different bullets I've tried in it. Barnes match burners, SMK, ELD match, SST's, ELDX. It really doesn't matter what I stuff it with..

Beautiful rifle. I’ve seen one or two with similar stocks online.

Good shooter too apparently!

I bought a new Tikka, the price was too good to pass up. My first centrefire rifle was a M96 swede and I loved that old girl. Sold it because youth told me there were bigger and better things out there. Funny thing is i have swung back to the 260rem for the past two decades and love the cartridge. The 6.5x55 will be for my wife to shoot along side me.

Thanks for your help so far. And thanks for the pics guys, there is some great shooting and beautiful rigs.

LowBC, if you don't have that old m96 anymore, there are many benefits to having just the Tikka in 6.5x55. The modern rifles can be loaded to a higher pressure than that m96. Kind of a "win win" situation. You are a lucky dog there. That Tikka is the one to get. I'll bet it will be a shooting machine. Don't get mad if your wife outshoots you with her 6.5x55. If you handload, you can make that Tikka sing...

Not quite so. The Norwegian Krags actually employ two locking lugs: the safety lug on the side of the Norwegian bolt is made to bear against the receiver as well as the main big lug, whereas that lug on the U.S. Krag is left with air between it and the receiver.

Someone wanted pics? Here's the juxtaposition of "modern" to go with the Swedish Mausers presented above. Anybody have a Norwegian Krag to show us?



And before anybody questions why the scope is so far back, if you had my neck on your shoulders you would do the same!!

A modern 6.5x55mm will take more than 51KPSI.




GR

For my 24" Ruger Hawkeye African 6.5x55mm - am developing Two loads:

1. 140 gr. Speer GS over 46.0 gn. H4831 for ~ 2740 fps.
2. 130 gr. Barnes TSX over 48.0 gn. H4831 for ~ 2800 fps.

Both should be < 60KPSI.



Both should be honest 350 yd. field loads.




GR

My 6.5X55 is a Sako 85, although I have played with old Mausers as well. For years I shot the 130 grain AB at 2700 with no complaints. The furthest I killed a deer with that load was right on 400 yards. A while back I got a couple of boxes of 130 grain SGK HPBT's. They shoot well also and the last deer I killed last year was with that load. I really like the rifle. It's extremely accurate and the cartridge is about as sweet-shooting as can be. Every once in a while I get the urge to crank up the speed of those 130's a bit, but I've got a lot of other things to do that are higher priority.

Model 70 XTR Sporter 6.5x55

True, but a safety lug is just that, insurance that you hope that you'll never need use of.

I've owned a sporterized Norwegian Krag for over 30 years and have shot it very little, maybe as much as two boxes of factory ammo, during that time. One of those impulse purchases that was fun for awhile and then it got cleaned and put on a shelf.

Just me.

My scopes tend to be back some as well. As a a rule, the end of the straight part of the tube ends up nearly against the front ring. As long as I can run the bolt without mashing my schnoz, it’s good.

I have just one Swede. It is a custom rifle that Jay Frazier made one of his friends when he was operating a shop in Delta. Frazier would not checker those guns he made for his friends but it is decent wood and heavy. It is a 1925 Mexican mauser with a douglas barrel and shoots 140 grain Trophy Nosler accubonds very accurately about 1.5 moa. My wife made the crazy sling when we found out that we had left our slings in the car and were flying into glacier country. It has a Kahles scope that is decent.

I have a model 70 Featherweight in 6.5 x 55, along with a Mauser/ Carl Gustaf...

the Mauser has a 29 inch barrel and a long detachable bayonet, which is usually left in the gun safe...

I use the Mauser for just nostalgia... but it does see hunting uses... and has taken a few blacktails

My loads are simple... with either a 120 grain Ballistic Tip, a 129 SP or 140 SP Hornady, or 140 grain Speer..or the old 140 gr Rem Corelokt.

Load is pretty simple using open sights, 30 grains of either RL 7 or IMR 4198...

kicks less than a 30/30, and if need be is easily capable of 200 yds service...

one of my most favorite rifles.

Don’t know why these didn’t fly off the shelves as fast as the .275’s did the year before. By far my favorite big game rifle in my safe. I run 140 gr partitions under RL 22.

Also true, but in the case of the Norge Krag it isn't a safety lug rather a second locking lug in the system. The US relegated that lug to a non-bearing safety lug status.

I'll betcha that if the gun/ammo companies had gotten their sh*t together and settled on a uniform throat configuration for the 6.5x55, and strictly adhered to it, there wouldn't have been a need for the 6.5 Creedmoor. But on the other hand, each new generation of shooters seem to have the need to re-invent the wheel in one way or another.

Nope. The Swede wouldn't do so well in 2.8" magazines which was a big part of the reason for the Creedmoor.

One word: Creedmoor

This one replaced a M1903A3 gifted to a family member, as my aperture sighted CF field bolt rifle.

Will start hunting w/ it when enough PPU has been disassembled at the range to facilitate the load development.




GR

Point taken. I've never given a hoot for "short" bolt actions so that premise was outside my field of view. I transitioned to single shots long ago - now there's some short actions.

Treat yourself to some Lapua. Once I started using that stuff I quit domestic brands and PPU - I got tired of dimensional variations and dealing with lopsided necks.

The 6.5x55 SE is a fine cartridge born out of military use with long throated chambers for 173 gr class bullets early on. Like many Mauser based cartridges the 3.2” actions they ride in are in no man’s land, not as popular as the 2.8” based cartridge SA and not a true 3.4” cartridge LA. Modern LA set up correctly could take real advantage of the extra case capacity and long, high BC projectiles.

For the masses however the SA is in vogue and the 6.5 CM is by far a better platform for a light weight alpine rifle carrying a 20” barrel. Same is true when comparing the 7x57 Mauser and the 7mm-08 Rem. Also both CM and Rem can be loaded at much higher pressures if you correspond to SAAMI load data.

I do like the nostalgia of the 6.5x55 SE and the 7x57 Mauser in the field taking game. All the aforementioned cartridges pretty much do the same thing, it’s only personal preference that separates them.

The wheel goes round and round. Occasionally, small improvements are made, but in the end, it’s what you like that counts.

Yep, the wheel goes round and round. The problem is The Great Unwashed Masses have no concept of history and the studying of it, and as a result repeat dumb mistakes that our forebears conclusively solved.

My stingy Scottish fingers would revolt.

8>)


For field rifles... have always gotten good performance from disassembled PPU brass.




GR

I suspect you are thinking of the 7x57 when you mention "173 gr class bullets early on." The 6.5x55 's original round-nosed military bullet weighed around 156 grains, as designed by the joint Swedish-Norwegian commission that came up with the round when the two countries were parts of the same kingdom.

Yes sir I did just that. Confusion is a common thing for an old man.

You bet. I got this for $200 a few years ago. Canada is awash in used 6.5x55s, imported from Europe. A company called Tradeex, now defunct, because the owner retired I believe, had 100s for sale. I bought an M38 in good to VG condition. It replaced a new Tikka 695 I bought before the T3 series came out.

The old girl cleaned up nicely.

Now there's a sweet old girl.

I currently have 2. A Tikka T3 fluted Hunter & a Sears M52, tarted up to look like an M70 Supergrade.
I shoot Hornady 129s & 130gn Sierras over 51gn of 7828ssc for 2860fps.
I love the cartridge. It's just perfect for everything!

That's a sweet Ruger.

Here's mine

Rob that is beautiful!

Nice bunch of rifles fellas - mine is a M70 FWT too. But getting back to the OP's original question...

[Mr. Barsness please jump in if you have changed you mind on this, or I am misremembering]

I recall reading a while back in something of JB's that based on case capacity disparity between the two, a good rule of thumb for "modern" pressure 6.5x55 load was 2 (sometimes 3) grains more than published 260 Rem maximum charges, for approximately the same pressure.

SAAMI max for the .260 being 60K PSI, your Tikka should be fine with that.

Again, JB, please correct me if that's not good gouge.

Rex

Years ago when these military Swedes were readily available, wasn't' Century Arms sportarizng them a with a new stock and selling them for about $200 or so?

saddlesore-

I know that Kimber sporterized quite a few with a Ramline stock. I've got a friend that has one. Lights out with factory ammo. Not sure of the grain. I bet Century did the same.

Rex,

Yep, that's about right. There will be some variation due to different throat-lengths in 6.5x55s, along with factors such as case weight. But in general potential difference in velocity between the two rounds, when loaded to equal pressures and barrel lengths, is about 1% to 1.5%. This is according to the 4-to-1 Rule, which states that any potential velocity difference between two cartridges of the same caliber is approximately one-quarter the difference in powder capacity, with bullets seated to the maximum standard overall length.

Thank you everyone for your input, it has been greatly appreciated. There are some truly beautiful rifles in those pictures. Good shooting and hunting to you all.

I noticed that Ackley's book did not overload test the Swedish Mauser.
So I bought 94, 96, and 1938 Swedish Mausers to overload test.
But before I got around to that, I overloaded a VZ24 Mauser I had converted to 7mmRM


7mmRM 180gr VLD moly 70 gr Re17, Quickload calculates 108 kpsi, primer fell out, both lugs and abutments have slight plastic deformation. The bolt would not go back in the rifle. Other VZ24 bolts would fit in the rifle. The subject bolt would fit in other VZ24 rifles. Some work with lapping compound and the subject rifle and bolt were compatible again. I subsequently shot an antelope at long range with the lapped rifle.

Comparing 94, 96, 38 Swede bolt lugs, they are almost the same.
Comparing Swede to VZ24 lugs, the Swede has 30% more cross section on the ejector side and the VZ24 has 15% more on the other side.

Comparing bolt lugs of the VZ24 to Rem 700, Win M70, and Sav 110 rifles, they are almost the same, with an insignificant lug cross sectionall advantage to Sav110.

I think I saw Swedish Mausers in 270 win for sale in Shotgun News.

What soured me on Mauser testing was a case head failure in a 1903 Turkish Mauser. The extractor broke in half and came flying out of the action, toward where a shooter would have been. Some rifles do not have this problem, like the Ruger #1, Sav 219, and handi rifles. But the Sav 219 and handi rifle will not always extract overload stuck cases.

I just took delivery of 6.5x55mm. It’s a little takedown version built on Mauser MEX action. I’ve been researching load data, so have found this thread rather timely.

Mike,

If you need any, several of us have bought this ammo in the link below. It is loaded with 140gr. Nosler Partition bullets. They ship quickly.

https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop...nal-hunter-qty-20-free-shipping-over-49/

Thanks for the link!
Mike

Not necessarily relevant to the bullet weights the OP asked about, but about 10 or 12 years ago Terry Wieland had an article in Rifle Magazine about the importance of IMR 4350 powder, his dealings with an old German gunsmith that had emigrated to Canada, and loading the Swede for a "modern" rifle. He ended-up with a load of 48.0 grains of IMR 4350 and a 140 grain Nosler Partition.

I started using the cartridge in the mid-1980s in the imported M96s and M38s that had flooded the US surplus market. I liked the quality of the rifles and the quality of the Swedish surplus ammo that was also cheaply available. My brother picked up a 6.5x55 Model 70 Featherweight for me while I was overseas, and I started using it for whitetails when I returned to CONUS. The first few deer were taken with Norma factory ammo with mixed results. Several boxes of Federal Premium ammo with 140 grain Partitions resulted in my longest string of one-shot kills with no bullet recoveries. I was happy! Then I made the mistake of chronographing some of the Federal ammo and found that it was barely breaking 2400 fps.

I used Wieland's article as a basis for developing some 140 Partition loads with a little more speed. I understand that the ammo companies that load 6.5x55 (or other old military cartridges) have to keep pressures in mind for a wide variety of old guns. I worked up to 47.8 grains of IMR 4350, Federal GM210M primer, and a Partition seated to 2.955 inches. Average velocity for 10 shots out of the Featherweight's barrel was 2776 fps, and the rifle maintained it's sub-MOA accuracy. The Lapua brass I used and the spent primers showed no excess pressure signs. I think this gives a better idea of what the cartridge is capable of when handloaded for a modern rifle with good components. It gives me a little more confidence if I decide to take the rifle out west for antelope or mule deer. (But I don't think the deer will be any deader.)

If accuracy is the index, then a chopped Swede is one of the finest rifles in my safe, and that's with a 114-year-old military barrel.

I have rebarreled at least a dozen M38 Mausers that were made by Husqvarna in the 1940s, most of them made in 1942/43, for a variety of cartridges that have SAAMI specs load data producing higher chamber pressures than those of the 6.5x55. I think that the Sweds are well made actions, but they share a potential safety issue with the other pre-1898 style Mausers, the small gas shield. I have always installed a commercial style gas shield on the M38s when I've rebarreled them for myself and for my Norwegian bachelor farmer friend. Brownell's used to catalog them, but for some reason they don't seem to be available from any vendor these days.

They used cut-rifled barrels, and indeed many shoot excellent if the bore condition has been maintained