I have read that after Hodgdon acquired Western Powders the import agreement/contract with Norma did not transfer to Hodgdon.

Does this mean that Norma is kaput and no longer being imported into the United States?

Thanks

It has been so long since I have seen it, that I thought it was gone years ago until I saw this post.

I'm sure Hodgdon is doing everything they can to choke competition in the US market...been their business model for the last decade. Once the big H gobbles Alliant we'll see some powder prices that will boggle the mind. Shooters World/Lovex/Explosia will be next in big H's crosshairs.

Around here the supply has been decent and prices only went up about ten bucks a pound. Not sure why things are so different in other places...?

Googling, Ohio has 282 people per square mile, the 3 northern counties here have 7 people sq mile...looks like they send it where the customers are? Three stores sell powder in my county (same size as Hawaii), I have not seen any new production powder suitable for rifle cartridges on the shelf in 3 years. Occasionally they have estate sale powder.

They’re not so different anywhere else either. Price of most everything has gone up, in some cases significantly.

If demand continues to fall prices will come down with commodities, manufacturing, retail price, etc. The price of shipping a shipping container across the Pacific or from Australia has gone from $2000-$3000, to $22,000 and now is back to $2000-$3000. But some of those high prices are still moving through the supply chain stream.

Then again the demand for munitions is going up, and we may be competing with that for our powder and primers.

A friend of mine owns a LGS over on the front range. Early this fall he was asking $56 a lb for H4350. When I asked why so much he sad his mark up was the same as it has always been, but that he had to pay a LOT more just to get some powder on his shelves.

Popular gun powders are few and far between in Ohio too. When you can find it the price is out of sight. I saw Varget for $75 a pound this week.

Ron

Well jeebers Norma powders disappeared for about 25 years after Alliant started the RL series.

I was told by a major U.S. primer manufacturer several months ago that a much larger percentage of their primer production is going into military ammo these days. Can't imagine that the percentage has dropped since then....

The same thing is no doubt happening with powder, especially in Europe.

After all they left in Afghanistan and gave to Ukraine I don’t doubt it. There’s not enough munitions left to shoot at us.

Lol…..I guess there’s a silver lining in everything!

The good news (I think) is in the new spending package Congress just passed directs 50 billion dollars to expanding munitions production-everything from bullets to rocket artillery.

I heard the same. Then I get e-mails from different shops advertising small rifle and small pistol primers in stock albeit at high prices but, no large primers at any price. Here's my question, Since the military's principal use is for small primers and only use large primers in 7.62 for the snipers, why are small primers available and large unobtainable? Something stinks!

Primer manufacturing capacity being reallocated to small rifle could do it.

The military just changed to the 277 Fury that may use a LR primer. Don’t know but the base is .470 (30-06 is .473) seemed plausible that a LR primer may be required.

Of one thing we can be absolutely sure: no one is making more money under the current increased pricing than they were prior to it.

We were told the same thing here (Australia) regarding primers and Reloader powders. We won't be getting any primers for two years minimum. Lucky I have a good stash.

Elvis,

I've considered a "good stash" of primers essential since the mid-1990s, when the Clinton "assault weapons" ban resulted in a similar "shortage"--partly because some handloaders back then considered at least 100,000 primers a good stash--sometimes buried in their back yard inside PVC pipe. This was because a wide-spread Internet rumor claimed that all primers made after the ban were designed to "go dud" within six months. (Have yet to run into any of those primers.)

Still, after two or three more primer "shortages," there are still handoaders caught short, including many who still believe they can just go down to the local sporting goods store and buy a couple hundred any time they need 'em.....

John

And I want some of that really, really good dope you're smokin' if you believe any of that will be allocated to any possible route to the civilian market.

I really think that the market is right where most mfg'ers really want it to be........kinda like vehicles: sell all they can produce at a premium price. What's not to like for them as many companies are reporting record sales & profits.

MM

Got a boat load of varget in today. $42 a pound and a whole bunch of 8 pounders.

Probably had three hundred pounds come in to the store this morning. All within ten bucks of "normal" price. So once again, no idea where the shortages and high prices are.

John.

Yep. We have the same sort over here. They always have money for a carton of beer and a packet of cigarettes but not enough to lay in a small supply of components.

It's lucky we have the ADI powders as we'd be pretty stuffed without them. Reloader powders - none for two years minimum. Winchester powders are no longer brought in by the importer. Vithavuori are no longer. Factory ammo is still readily available but only in the most common chamberings, not some off the odd stuff that I like.

Don't have 100,000 primers stashed, but, before things got stupid, bought enough to last me a looong time. Powder also. Bullets also. Some handloaders just don't get it.
Snooze, you lose!

Do you have any idea how fast an M-134 burns through 7.62 ammo?

IMO,
John sings the truth yet again. I will never forget asking my uncle why he did not buy primers a 1K at a time(circa 1994). As a result, I was looked at like I was growing a second head. I was the first in my family to order 5K primers at a time, in everything I loaded and have kept them cool and dry. I just NEVER really thought I would be shooting as many CCI 450's as I am... The number I have on hand is depressing.

That said I have PLENTY of H4350, H1000, etc. available for trade.

Regards, Matt.

powder has been coming back into stock on a regular basis lately, and I noticed a trend that followed ammo coming back into stock.

first ammo to be regular shelf items were 9mm, 308, 556/223 and 12 gauge. Makes sense, it was the highest demand during the craziness, also, at least for 556/9mm/12ga the most popular and commonly used rounds by the general public. As those came back into stock that limits were abandoned ... then came the powders must commonly used for them. Primers as well. As we got closer to hunting seasons we started seeing again, common stuff starting to stockpile, 30-06, 308, 270, 30-30, 243, etc. Once that started to become something you could generally just go and buy ... mid range rifle powders started coming back into stock and it seemed every few weeks the powders got slower. Guess what's not made of unobtanium anymore? 300 win mag, 7 rem mag, etc. Even starting to see more of the newer wündermags like the PRC and Nosler line getting delivered. So my guess is the very slow stuff will be next. And then large rifle primers.

As to Alliant stuff, good luck, it's gonna be a while. Federal is keeping that in house for the time being and they'll gladly tell you we (and Vista Outdoors, who owns Alliant, Federal, CCI, Speer etc) are an ammo company, NOT a component company, IF we have excess we will share

I think you nailed it. I’ve noticed the same thing, though I’m too lazy to write it up nicely as you did.

JB’s right again as usual about peoples’ buying habits and how they end up running short as a result. If they had put as much effort into securing a good supply of needful things before the crunch hit as they do now creating fanciful conspiracy theories, they’d be all set.

I also like the comment made about margins on stuff remaining the same, but based on higher dealer costs. That ain’t scalping, it’s how to stay in business. Gotta allow for the greatly increased labor and in some places energy costs too. A business can’t just eat those costs to make people happy.

I expect many got caught short on reloading components as they never thought Trump could lose the election.

Years ago, when he had a bit of a functioning brain, our current dimwit-in-chief made a comment that we don't have to make guns illegal.We just have to make them impossible to shoot

….demonstrating yet again his total ignorance on the topic. Probably didn’t have a clue about handloading, or about how much ammo and components exist in the secret stashes of boomer-prepper-hoaders.

Then there’s the smuggling option, as well as the black market that would spring up with ammo stolen from the military, police, and security outfits.

I've got these for anyone within driving distance.....bring your billfold.....

I guess I wasn’t asking about shortages and availability due to politics, hoarding and unforeseen demand.

I was asking if Norma powders have a designated importer.

Accurate was that guy, when Hodgdon took control of Accurate, the import agreement/contract did not transfer.

As such, I am asking if Norma powder are no longer imported into the United States regardless of the usual shortages?

I’d like to know if Norma powders will be distributed again, also. MRP is the only Norma powder I use and I have enough to get by but don’t want to use my supply to develop new loads if it’s not going to be available anytime soon. Same scenario with RL26.

“boomer-prepper-hoarder” I like that description! I’m gonna use it.

The Mexican drug cartels are salivating at the possibilities of manufacturing and smuggling firearms into the US. Just think, no more restrictions on full autos and 100 round mags……

This hoarding that we consider normal is turning normal people off. Not everyone has the room, the means, or desire to stuff 20-30 thousand primers, 200-300 lbs of powder, tens of thousands of pieces of brass, and tens of thousands of projectiles into every nook and cranny in the house. I am looking in the mirror hard here.

It probably isn’t kaputt, but was redirected.

I got this back from a supplier.


Équipe support / Support team (X-Reload)
Jan 4, 2023, 07:56 CST

Stephen, presently it is not available from our supplier.

regards

Rl 22 is your Huckleberry
Whatever MRP will do, Rl22 will do.

I've touched on this for years, most have told me I'm way out there but I'm not. lead makes the world of the 22 shooter go around. Instead of initially attacking lead projectiles they attacked lead shot that was being injested by waterfowl in some very high used areas. Just a few areas mind you which was followed by a national lead ban for waterfowl followed by a nation wide lead ban on federal property. California bans lead for everything and uses condor mortality as an excuse. They have taught this total toxicity issue for years in our schools of higher education and it's bullsh*t but it's their agenda..lead shot is now 65-80 a bag because lead is no longer smelted in the USA. Mined lead goes to Mexico and comes back for batteries and expensive shot. You wonder why you can't afford to hit the trap ,skeet or sc range everyweek? Well duh. Cast bullets commercially produced cost damn near as much as jacketed bullets. Anybody yet see an affordable substitute for lead 22 rimfire projectiles? Your state and federal agencies will just mandate non toxic shotshell loads for those who enjoy small game hunting with a 22. It hasn't anything to do with toxicity from day f*cking one. It has to do with the left's attemp to eliminate sport shooting by making it to expensive for ordinary people. When you can't afford to shoot anymore the next thing will be why do you need to own a gun? It's time for people to think about what is being done to limit their freedom especially those who think and vote Democrat because they are the ones trying to bend you over and subjugate your freedom. That is the damned truth...mb

I hear this a lot, yet I have never experienced anything to support it.

My CZ Model 3 shoots great groups with MRP and 165 Partitions.

This rifle shoots below average with R22 no mater what adjustments are made.

no Trump never lost the election the Democratic party " liberals " did the dirty ballet box stuffing trick . and that`s not over with yet ?

Load up 6 of each, and have someone hand you 3 of Rl22, and 3 of MRP without telling you which is which til finished.
Then do it again, and see which comes out on top
I have MRP2, which from what I heard became Rl25, but have not tested the theory.
Plenty of Norma overlaps with Alliant.

I have used a BUNCH of RL-22 and Norma MRP, and when MRP became available ran some tests--partly because the data indicated they were very similar powders. They were also produced by the same factory.

The batches I had looked exactly the same, and when used in the same rifles, with the same brass, primers and bullets, with the same bullets seated the to same depth, they resulted in the same muzzle velocities, within 10 fps. This made me suspect they WERE the same powder--to the point where I mixed both together and got the same results.

But ALL smokeless powders do vary some from batch to batch, and maybe today's MRP and RL-22 are indeed vastly different. Though I doubt it....

If ya got any 205... I'm your Huckleberry!...

I certainly dont want to start an argument, but common sense should tell you if there are 3 powder companies in a a place a little bigger than California,
There is damn sure gonna be some overlap, and I KNOW they are there, but cannot prove it, so I am very careful which powders I put in that category.
203 and Rl15 are the same powder
Here, I will let them tell you......Give ya something to chew on

LeeC--

Yep, and I have also had exactly the same results in various rifles with 203 and 15.

Various other powders are also the same, under different names. Have published some of this info in various articles, and my books.

MHS,

I have, or had a contact that worked at the Remington plant in AR. He told me the same thing you have mentioned here, and when I reported it the exact same thing you said here, a few people on here thought I was full of [bleep]. He also told me Remington branded primers would start showing up again and they finally have.

Do you use MRP data when using R-22 and verse-visa?

Nosler Load Data shows that Norma MRP and R-22 aren’t even close to the same.

https://www.nosler.com/6-5-prc

QuickLoad also shows they are different.

MM,
The reason we’re seeing SR primers available is because the manufacturers are producing a LOT of them for munitions and some of that production is being shunted off to the commercial market.

The reason we are not seeing a lot of LR primers is, well, manufacturing capacity is being directed to SR primers.

No conspiracy needed…..

I know what you mean...From the burn charts its massively different. Just look
You know the old manuals used to do the exact same thing with 231/HP38, 110/296. Its called marketing.

This is the link to the friggin dudes that make powder..mmmkay
http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
This is the newest burn chart.. 146,147...massive difference

TAG

From your link

Note: This table shows only approximate equivalent values within about 5%.

Massive, not hardly, but different.