It looks like the 260 Rem may be dissapearing as a factory round, I see Remington has droped it from the LSS MNT Rifle and while this year it will be chambered in a special run M-700 (CDL stainless fluted or Boone and crocket?) is it chambered in any other North American Rifle? I see P&D in Edmonton has Sako 85's in 260 listed at 300.00 off list which is usually a sign they are discontinued. I think the 260 is a very well balanced round that is a much better Varmint/deer combo than the 243-6mm especially in canada where the Deer run larger in body size plus with a 140 grain partition I would not hesitate to use it on a moose or elk.

The wife has a remington mountain rifle (wood/blued) in 260 rem. Awesome litle gun. It weighs next to nothing. Shoots tiny groups and the recoil is more than tolerable. In my opinion it makes a perfect deer gun. Hope they still make brass for it if it goes extinct.

Why would the largest gun maker in America chamber the 260 in it's
special run CDL if it was almost gone.


"Rumors Of My Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated"

Again.

I sure hope not.

I have 260 MTN rifle with a 22" shilen barrel and it makes for a great deer rifle and a very accurate one. I love my 260.

I still want one!

Duckshoot-as much as I like the lil .260 you're right, not long from now it will soon join other fine rounds that just couldn't garner the sales mix to stay in the line up.

I seriously doubt it'll be around in 5 years give or take, and 3 is most likely more like it.

As for Rem putting it in a special run kind of rifle, this isn't the first time they've put a round in the line up that isn't blowing the door off sales wise.

I worked retail guns for 3 long years, I sold a lot of guns a lot of 7/08's in short actions. And for long actions I sold a ton of .270's and 25/06's. I can only remember one fella that came in looking for a .260. He had one, loved it and wanted one for his son. I have no doubt he'd of had the same sentiment towards a 7/08 or 308 if he'd of started with it.

Hey I like the lil 6.5, but for shorty rounds I'll gladly take my 308.

Dober

Seems a shame to see it go. I never even had one. But, with that magic bullet (130 TSX), the 308 will do whatever the 260 did.

Wayne

I think most people in choosing a light caliber for deer sized hunting look at the 7mm08 and the 260 Remington and then choose the former thinking that the heavier bullets are an advantage. This is unfortunate as they loose out on a great cartridge.

It will probably join the 358 Winchester as a great cartridge that did not make it. The 260 is a real sweet cartridge!

You know when I was working the counters people had heard of the 308 and the 7/08. Now when you started speaking .260 95% of the people would look at you like you were speaking Polish (and maybe I was...ork ork ork).

Point being is that the gun masses keep a round going not us gun loonies.

Hey I love the lil .260, I'm not dissing it one bit, just telling what I saw.

Dober

Another factor in the decline of the .260 Rem. was the rise in popularity and availability of the 6.5x55mm. Although the older 6.5x55 was not a run-away success either, it did serve to split and already limited market for the mid-level 6.5 cartridges and is considered the "classic" round in this category. The .260 might have failed even without the 6.5x55 bleeding off potential customers, but with that added pressure, the end was inevitable.

At least around here the Swede is even more of a non issue. Yeah there is a looney or two here and there that talk about it. But once again, I never had one customer come in asking for one.

As good as the rounds are they just don't fill any slots that other rounds weren't already doing when they came on the seen. Now maybe just maybe if the 260 would of come b4 the 7/08 it would had a chance. But in all honesty I still would of bet on the lil 7 in whopping up in America when it comes to sales.

6.5's and 35's are basicall looney rounds with the exception of the 35 Rem that all the cheese heads and other Norskies are still running amuck with. And at that I've no doubt that darn few 336/35's are sold in the midwest anymore either.

Dober

Harder to get, yes, but custom shops will always be able to make it and the brass is based on one of the most abundant cartridges on the planet. It can be reformed from several very successful other cartridges out there with very little effort.

With the benchrest shooters being interested in the 260 AI for it's inherent accuracy, case and barrel life, I just don't see it disappearing completely.

Steve-you're right about the components, we'll still be able to scrounge them for quite some time.

As for custom shops and custom guns yepper they'll take our money.

Heck I can still get my smith to turn me 7 Mashburn Super and that round died 52.5 years ago....

Bottom line is factory day to day production of the 260 is on its last gasps and going down for the 3rd time.

Dober

Yeah - I know... but factory rifles aren't as much fun anyway.

I have 3 260s and love them, but I would agree they are on the way out. When people ask what round you shot your deer with and you tell them they say "what the hell is that?".

Just not wal-mart enough for the masses. Most people use the 270 30-06 and 243 in my area. Very few use the 308 feeling it isnt enough for deer. Whatever.

Anyway, I will probably buy the CDL SF. I figure in 3 yrs or less the 260 will be a footnote in history.

I should have bought that mtn lss 2 yrs ago.

I know I know but that is what we were cussing and discussing...

Dober

Sometimes I wonder if they stop making some calibers for a period so they can just re-introduce it in a Commemorative model after awhile like old Disney videos or something.

I think they did that with the 350 Rem Mag to a degree.

I don't think they are going away. I think Ruger chambers it in their compact rifle as does Kimber in the Montana. A .260 Montana would be a sweet rig.

No doubt about it, a Little Sky in a 260 is one of the rigs I'd love to get for my wife. But then again so is a 308 or 7/08 for that matter.

But, sit back and watch, it won't be around much longer.

Dober

Quick hijack...
What's wrong with the 6.5 Rem Mag(other than it's already dead...)?

Not a thing, its kind of cool has some panache but it won't do us anything a .270 or an .06 won't and the .270 and the .06 is still around.

The masses generally speak quite well I've learned.

Dober

I currently have a few 260s around (16), plus a few barrels (5), and a reamer (1), so I'm set for a while. I really believe that Remington's lack of love and attention hurt the 260 coming out of the gate and it just never recovered. I am a huge fan of the Remington 700 LSS-MR and think that it is among the best factory rifles ever offered, but I will never understand why they failed to chamber the 260 in the standard blued/walnut 700 BDL.

IIRC, the 1st Remington to be chambered in 260, in 1997, was the 700 stainless/synthetic DM with a magnum contour 24" barrel. A long, heavy, rifle with a magazine style that few people liked or bought. Then came the Remington 7s, a short rifle that more people liked and bought, but not enough. Then came the Remington 700 MR/DM, great, except for that damned magazine. Then came the Remington 700 VLS, but only for about 1 year. Then there was the rumor about some of the rifles being made with barrels that had too slow a twist, such that they wouldn't shoot groups. I keep hearing that rumor, but have never known anyone to actually have that problem. Then there was the issue of a production lot of slow ammo with the 140 grain PCL.

It is almost as though someone in the Remington marketing hierarchy didn't want the 260 and was in a position to help it fail. Add to that the fact that Remington never offered the 260 in the entry level 700 ADL matte/synthetic that Wal-Mart used to sell by the trainload. Sell a lot of rifles and sell a lot of ammunition to go with it.

I think that Remington would have done well to position the 260 as a dual-purpose, varmint-medium game, cartridge by offering a varmint weight bullet in the 85 to 95 grain area, a 120 to 130 grain deer/antelope bullet, and a 140 grain heavily constructed elk/bear bullet. But they didn't and, like their decision to sell the line of Russian and Yugoslav firearms, it doesn't seem like a decision that a "gun person" would make, but the kind of decision made by a dispassionate bean counter who probably thinks that guns are "icky" and that hunters are a bunch of drunk, semi-literate, barbarians.

Rant over.

Jeff

I had to look up panache....grin
Looks like a neat round on paper.

Same thing that is wrong with the 6.5X55, 256 Newton and 264 Winchester. 6.5 mm calibers just don't thrive in the U.S. as was mentioned above. I've owned several 6.5X55s over the years and none other than Finn Aagaard referred to it as perhaps the perfect deer caliber but it still doesn't capture the general publics imagination. The rest of the 6.5s just seem to follow suit. To be honest I'm surprised it has lasted this long as a factory chambered round.

When push comes to shove there are four rounds any new cartridge that is 30 caliber and below will have to compete with. They are the 243, 270, 308 and 30-06. It's a tough bunch to steal from.

No doubt Sam it is a neat round and if you told me I had to hunt the rest of my life with one I would and could with no issues. As long as it was in a rifle that I could get intimate with I'd go forth and fill an ark!

I long ago learned that this stuff aint about the round, its' about the rifle and the nut behind the butt (but?).


Dober

Ain't that the truth Dober...
Practice tends to make gack irrelevant.

I would imagine the lack of popularity for the .260 runs similar to why I purchased a 7-08 when I picked up my Montana. I let my mind run in circles before I purchased it..260, 7-08, .308...260, 7-08, .308. I've got nothing against the .260 ( I shoot one in a T/C pistol), but there is not one thing it will do that the 7-08 will not, nothing..period, as far as hunting goes..vermin or larger. I only have 25-30 rifles laying around at one time, so I might not be a rifle loonie..figure I'm close enough..and I can't see a reason to get one (DPMS LR aside, then it's "magic"..cause they don't have 7-08)

I don't like to see any cartridge go the way of the buffalo, but I'd rather see 300 H&H brass than rifles in .260 when push comes to shove...aside from that DPMS LR..cuz it's "magic" in that rifle. The 300 H&H will do about anything all the rounds that replaced it will, aside from fit in a cheap rifle...and it can do that too.

fwiw,
It's alive and well in LR Tactical Competitions...

Regards, Matt.

Matt,
that is where I see it's usefulness, where it will outshine the 7-08. Let's not forget the 7-08 made it's name in medium-long range shooting as well. If it was not for the fact I love M-70's, I'd let my Featherweight in .280 in a factory MCM stock go...just can't seem to do it. The fact it shoots groups like a varmint rifle doesn't hurt either.

Like some mentioned, when people go to make the comparison between the 260 and the 7mm-08 it is hard to not give the 7mm-08 the nod..

I looked hard at both when I bought my 7mm-08 and found this..
The 7mm-08 has better velocities with equal bullet weights
The 7mm-08 has lower recoil with '''''''''
The 7mm-08 has more factory ammo
The 7mm-08 has a better bullet selection for reloading

Not dogging the 260 but I think that alot of people see this and buy the 7mm-08 over it.

Just sit and wait for the SD crowd to chime in......

Well Miket being i was a 708 owner when it first came out I'll have to disagree with you.

The 260 has better velocity down range with equal bullet weights,
where it really matters.

With bullets of equal weight the 260 has Higher BC's and SDs's
than the 708.

As far as factory ammo, I haven't shot factory ammo in a decade.

As far as bullet selection, Most here will shoot 120's and 140s'
in both rifles. The 260 again has better BC & SD for these weights. Also the 6.5 has plenty of bullets to choose from.
The only thing it does not have is a 175 grain of which I've yet to meet a 708 owner who used that bullet weight.
I have the better varmint rifle of the two with 85 and 95 grain bullets.

With the 260 I can match 708 SD's & BC's with lighter bullets and therefore have lighter recoil than the 708.

My fav bullet in the 260 is the 130 Swift Scirocco at 2,900 fps.
It has a 571 BC, compare that to anything the 708 has to offer.

No significant advantage over the 6.5 x 55.

As a hunting round, the 260 has few advantages over the 7/08 but if I remember correctly reading Carmichael's article when the 260 first came out, it was touted as a silhouette cartridge, where it did offer some advantages over the 7/08 and the 6.5.
Because it was a new cartridge, the throats were more uniform than the catch as catch can chambering of the 6.5, and it was in a short action. While these advantages over a 6.5 mean little in a hunting rifle, to competitive shooters, they are likely to be significant.
Comparing it to a 7/08, bullets of equal weight would have slightly more sectional density, and some thought that gave an advantage in knocking the distant steel targets down. I believe I have seen claims that the 260 recoils slightly less than a 7/08, not enough to matter in a hunting rifle, but to a competitive shooter firing many many rounds, it might make the difference in a long day of shooting.

By the way, Midway is now selling Panache in spray cans- Saw it work very well on a Remington 710 the other day
TIC
Royce

I gotta say that if I was entering the game today, I would not be going the 7x57 route that I went 30 years ago when my boys were getting started hunting. We all got 7x57's, so they are our go-to rifles.
However, fast forward to today. We would all be shooting 260 Remingtons if the kids were starting out now, and their Pop would be right in there with them with a 260; especially after last years 500+ yard shot by SU35 on Washington Buck using a 260. If that shot didn't get your attention, I don't know what would.

Don

My opinion parallels Jeff's and especially this statement.



Had it been marketed better, been made readily available in box stores in entry level rifles, along w/ non-premium price ammo, it might have had a shot at being mainstream. Had this happened, I doubt it'd have gained rockstar status, but figure it might have earned shelf space right next to bargain 7-08 & .308 ammo.

Would have also helped greatly if the shooting industry had one of their authors embrace and champion the round in the popular gun mags. Kind of like Layne Simpson & Jon Sundra did the 7-08. JMO.

I see nothing wrong with the .260 Remington, in fact; I think it's one of the most sensible cartridges for North American big game hunting. But honestly, if it goes away I'm quite happy with the 6.5x55 Swede in a long action.

My buddy loads for his M700 VLS. He uses all necked down federal match 308 brass so he can turn the necks. How's 1/4in 5 shot groups with Sierra 142's grab ya?

Sweet. That VLS in .260 is as rare as hen's teeth. Produced for only one year IIRC.

I hope the 260 doesn't go away.
I have not had the chance to own one yet, but I kind of see the 260 as a 6.5X55 in a slightly more compact package.
What's not to like about that??

i agree that the 260 is on borrowed time. the sales of that round in my area is dismal at best. too bad, as it is a great deer cartridge, well suited for the ladies and kids, not to mention men.

I'm kinda surprised at this.Judging from the play the 260 gets on here,I'd have thought it was a lot more popular and doing quite well.....

COULD IT BE???........that the Campfire is not necessarily a barometer of all things gunny? I think we're a sub-cult in the community of gun owners and rifle shooters.Maybe?

He's useing 45gr R-19 and a Federal primer. Seating depth is .010 off contact. Chono's just short of 2800.

Now Dober don't be calling us Southern Boys names just because some of us still like the 336/35Rem combo. Its a darn fine combo in the thickets for bear, deer and hogs.

I have never owned a .260 Rem but I think it is a much better round for begainers that a .243 Win. I would hate to see it fade away.

Absolutely we are a sub-cult and the purchasers of the new cartridge introductions. Does the Walmart customer really care about the new Wissums, a blown out 375 Ruger case, or the Ruger RCM's...I think not.

Doc

I don't have a dog in this fight but how in the world could 2 rounds that are so similar and one provide both HIGHER velocities and LOWER recoil with the same bullet weight. I think I hear Isaac Newton rolling over to hear the answer

No doubt it is Cole, the 336/35 is the first rifle I ever carried after deer. Lets see, that was in 1971....man that seems like a long butt time ago.



Dober

I'm disappointed to see the 260 not doing better than it is, because it is far more useful than any of the dozen or so short & long magnums introduced recently.

As my handle shows, I think the world of the 7-08. But I think that for a deer and antelope gun, the 260 gets the nod (based only on its performance on about 6 critters.) I just like what I have been able to accomplish with the 100 gr bullets from the 260. If elk enter the picture, then I want something larger than a 7-08 anyway (but don't tell that to the cow elk my 13 year-old son shot this year with 7-08).

I think both cartridges should be more popular than they are. I suspect that a whole lot of one-box-a year shooters would do better if they had either of them than the 30-06s they are carrying.

If this is true, and I would not find it that hard to believe, it would be due to lower charge weight and/or lower muzzle pressure due to the higher expansion ratio of the 7-08.

-

Dober, the 336/35 was also the first rifle I ever carried deer huntin'. Dad, God bless his soul, had to work and couldn't hunt so I took his rifle. Lets see now what year was that ... it was in 1964. And that was a long time and lot of rifles ago. But I still have his 336/35.

You know I might ought to get a .260 for my grandson just case he does not like the No. 1-A .257 Roberts I bought for 3 years ago. He not but 3 so I guess I can play with it until he is old enough.

Heck, if my grandson (Austin, he's 8) didn't like a #1/Roberts 1A I'd trade him in.........

Dober

Maybe it would have been better if they had called it a 26-08 or 6.5-08 or something. The 6mm Rem was just a 244 Rem with a new twist (sorry about that, I couldn't resist). Maybe this is the year to introduce it as such. It is not without precedence.

Of course we also had the 280, 7mm Express and the 7/06 or whatever else it was called...<g>

Once a company starts with the name changes it's a good sign that the round is about TU.

Dober

The name change thing is a bad idea. The round will stay around with us rifle looney hunters and F class types. I have one built on a 77 action but a Ti of ss seven at a good price would be hard to pass up.

It's the 6.5 curse. 6.5 rem mag, 264 win mag and now 260 rem. If there wasn't a ton of swede mausers brought in the 6.5x55 would be there also. It never wowed the hunter market. Learned riflemen know it's advantages. Logically, the 6.5-284 should be the go to hunting round but once the bench boys move on to a new fad it will also fade away.

F class guys and other bench shooters will revise the names enough without the help of manufacturers. A 6.5x59 AI GrenTubb would be popular tomorrow if it won a championship or set a record. (Just kidding....no, but really)

Will this slow down with the push for the 6.5x47? The .264 bore is great for tactical, shoots flatter than the .30 unless you jump up to a .300mag or bigger and with a bunch less recoil as well. Second advantage is plenty of weight to take down steel, something the heavy .223 will sometimes fail to do.

Im saving for a Sturg in an AI chassis and was going to go with the .260 but might go with the 6.5x47 with the Lapua brass out.

Let's see- the .260, the 6.5, the 5mm Rem Mag, the SAUMs, the .280/7mm Express (now trying to rise from the dead), and some others I'm forgetting- How many more duds can Big Green come up with?

I can't believe people complain and whine when a gun company comes out with a new cartridge! It totally baffles me.

Thank goodness they give us dozens of niche choices.



More like, why do dud questions like this come up.

None of those cartridges are duds by any means.

I've always said a shot not taken can't go in the net, well actually Gretsky said that, but I liked it enough I stole it...

Dober

Exactly Mark,

I also wonder if some people would be better off living in
Mother Russia.

A quick look at the prices of 260 loaded ammunition from Midway leads me to think the factories are actively trying to kill it off:
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.ex...yid=9331&categorystring=653***690***
There's one there for $29, a couple at $35 or so, and the rest in the high $40 range. My word.

For brass, Midway's mostly out of stock:
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.ex...ategorystring=9315***652***670***9013***
If I buy one, I expect I'll be mostly using brass headstamped "7mm-08."

I guess I'm lucky I snagged a mint condition used Mt. Rifle in .260, blued/walnut DBM for $500! I love the round, although it will probably end up being rebarreled with a custom job, maybe even opened up to .260 AI and a 1-8" barrel on it, plus a bedding job...now we're talking a longer range deer buster!
Selmer

Not quite accurate. I have personally seen about three of the plain ol' cheapest synthetic stocked ADL's chambered in .260. Granted it was not at Wal-Mart, however.

I have seen as I'm sure many have, rifles from different companys straight from the factory chambered in calibers that the manufactuer didn't "list" as available in that model or in their entire line for that matter. these were not "custom shop" guns either.

I hate to see the 260 hurting, I love mine. I agree with everyone Remington killed it with piss poor marketing.

Bill

I'm well aware of the ADL .260s. They were a special run, either 250 or 500 made and never offered in box stores that I'm aware of. Very hard to find on the used market now, BTW and generally priced more than a plain ADL should be when they do turn up.

Point I was trying to make was they (REM) never flooded the market with them, by making them widely available.

Had Rem gotten behind the .260 and marketed it to the masses as the new best whitetail deer round and made it available in an economy model @ the same place Joe Blow buys diapers, dog food, toothpaste, and toilet paper, it might've had a fighting chance.

Agreed.......

fwiw & imho,
Could not disagree more strongly. The only thing the .260 is lacking is a good source of brass. If Lapua made it available, which I doubt due to the Lapua 6.5x47, it would make a bigger dent in LR Comps than it currently does....

Articles for your perusal by Zak Smith...
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

Regards, Matt.

The 700 ADL matte synthetic rifles chambered in 260 were made at the same time as those in 222, 6mm, and 257 Roberts, but none of the 4 were ever cataloged. They were from a limited run for Grice (and maybe other wholesalers) and were never offered at any volume outlet. Even at that, the 6mm and 257 Roberts flew off the shelf, but the 222s and 260s hung around for quite awhile.

Jeff

But LR Comps are not the market. The market is hunters who don't reload. If Long Range rifle compotision ruled the market then the 6.5-284 would be top of the heap right now. If you say 308 or 30-06 every novice hunter will recognize it. Say anything in 7mm and an aoutomatic association to the 7mm mag is made. The true market is guys that don't know squat about guns. They know what their daddy or buddy tells them.

Answered it for me, Bore expansion ratio is the reason. I have read this in many many recoil tables. Same reason that the 130 30-06 kills the 130 270 in MV and also kicks less.
Isaac Newton already knows that...

- [/quote]

Answered it for me, Bore expansion ratio is the reason. I have read this in many many recoil tables. Same reason that the 130 30-06 kills the 130 270 in MV and also kicks less.
Isaac Newton already knows that... [/quote]

And the fact that the 6.5's superior ballistics don't really come into play until you get far beyond reasonable hunting distances

From the HuntAmerica Recoil Calculator/ rifle weight=9lbs

140gr bullet/H4350
260
42gr/v=2677/recoil energy=11/ recoil velocity = 9
7-08
45gr/v=2692/ RE=11/ RV=9

H414
260
41gr/v=2656/ RE=11/ RV=8
7-08
43.5gr/ v=2634/ RE=11/ RV=9

data is from the Hodgdon website, you can increase the powder in the 7-08 and get about 150fps more velocity, but the recoil will go up slightly and the increase in velocity will not be noticed by the deer, and the 260 will catch up do to better BC (yes, it will take a "long" distance). Point is, we are picking nits, and can argue til the cows come home. The cartridge capacity is the same and the difference in bullet diameter is not significant (20/1000").

You will never be able to tell a difference in the field which cartridge you are using. But to say that one has higer velocity AND less recoil, and to declare that makes a difference???

Using the same logic. Would the 308 provide higher velocity and lower recoil than the 7-08? And the poorer BC's of the 30cal bullets are insignificant within normal hunting ranges.

I looked on wally world's website a few months ago 4 poops and laughs. What did I find you ask?
I found 260s in ADL version. I believe the price was $620! Yep, $620! No wonder the "cheapies" don't sell.

If they were $385-$420 I would definitely buy one...Maybe I should check again.

I printed this off the Chuckhawks website a couple years ago. I am sure that some computer program was used

Both were from 7.5lb guns
cartridge-----Bullet-WT----MV----Rec-E-----Rec-V
260------------120--------2860-----13------10.6
7mm-08---------120--------3000-----12.1----10.2
260------------140--------2700-----14.9----11.3
7mm-08---------140--------2860-----13.5----10.8

I know that this is just one table but the only printed one I had at my disposal.
I have noticed that most recoil calculators don't take bore dia in to account and it is a major factor in recoil.

I know that no one will ever be able to tell the differece in the recoil between the two or even field performance for that matter....

Just for fun I ran the ballistis on biggameinfo.com on these 2 cartridges both using the 120BT. I used the max MV load for each in the latest Nosler Manual.
120BT 250 Zero 260bc=.458 708bc=.417
260------3049
7mm-08---3262
Cart.-----100----200----300---400---500
260.........2.4.....2.0....-3.4...-14.5...-32.5
7-08........2.0.....1.8....-3.0...-12.9...-29.1

About as far or farther as I would be shooting either at game.

I really do like the 260 I just get tired of hearing how it superior to the 7mm-08 because of the better BC and the lower recoil.
Like I said in the previous post for hunting game like deer there really is no difference in the 2. More thought should go into a gun that fits you and you can shoot well.

That is something that I'd have to see to believe, so if you find a link, please let me know.

When Grice had the 700 ADL matte synthetics in 260 the wholesale price to small dealers was around $370. The high volume outlets, like Wal-Mart and BPS, must have been able to buy 700 ADL matte synthetics for under $300, since the last 7 700 ADL matte synthetics that I have bought cost from $300 to $325 retail from both places. That said, I have never seen a 700 ADL matte synthetic at a high volume outlet chambered for any limited volume cartridge, except for a few 204s at BPS.

Jeff

I know where three of those exact rifles sit on shelves as we speak. Could be all four chamberings, the 257 Bob may still be there but I wasn't looking for it last time I was in there. The 222 sits in another shop down the street. The other shop had all three other chamberings (222, 6mm, and 260). All were under $600. But I personally wouldn't pay over $400 for any ADL synthetic, mainly because I already own a 6mm and 260 but also because you can buy ADL synthetics at Wally Fart for $250 with the Rem $50 rebate right now.

The 222 does tempt me though as I've always felt the 222 had way more "cool" factor than the .223. That is obviously personal opinion, I know.

Bill

No 700s anymore. They had them in ADL and Ti.
What's left is the M7 youth for $610.62

I've got my eye on a Weatherby varmint in 223 under $500.

In the latest Nosler Guide, #6, the 708 is using a 26" barrel
and the 260 is shot with a 24" barrel.

Also to get a real and true comparison between the two rounds you need to look at the comparing Sectional Density of each bullet.

The 260 130 AB has a .266 SD
The 708 150 BT has a .266 SD


The 260 will shoot a 130 at 2,900 fps, max from my own use.
The 708 will shoot a 150 at 2,800 fps, max from my own use.
I think these speeds show a good and fair average for each weight.

According to Biggame,

The 708 with a 150 BT drops 38.9" at 500 with a 250 zero.
The 260 with a 130 AB drops 35.4" at 500 with a 250 zero.

The 708 with a 150 BT has a recoil of 13.2/18.9
The 260 with a 130 AB has a recoil of 12.3/16.5

Impact velocity at 300 yards;

708 is 2,275
260 is 2,375

Impact velocity at 500 yards;

708 is 1,959 fps
260 is 2,032 fps

So for picking nits here, the 260 will accomplish the same as the 708 with less recoil, more velocity down range.




Yes, I totally agree.

Hey, I've got two dinosaurs now, that are my near my favorite deer rifles, a 6.5 X 55 Husky, and a Rem Model 7 in 260. I truly like the 6.5. However this caliber may end up like the 257 Roberts (a great round, just not very popular).

LOL!!!! And why is this? Just gotta hear...

The ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of it's diameter in inches.

Apple to apple, SD to SD.

Mike, if you don't have it figured out by now you probably never will.

Dont forget that Savage did chamber the .260 for a while. I have one of the first ones they made( It is marked "Prototype"... had a family member working at Savage at the time). They dropped the chambering due to lack of support from Remington ( as in factory loaded ammo).

I know what SD is, I am asking why that is THE way to get a real and true comparison between the two rounds?

So out of all of the variables why is it you pick SD to make the comparison?

FWIW a recent poll of ALL hunters rated the 260 as the #1 preferred deer round in the entire four wall area.

At my local gunstore, the 260 was gone before it made it to the shelf, the 222 not long after, but the 6mm and 257 sat for a couple years. All depends where you live.

The proprietor also told me a couple years ago that he sells about four rifles in 260 for every one in 7-08. Of course, I own two of them, so he might have just told me what he thought I wanted to hear.

As far as the round dying off, who cares? Most others will also be "dead" in 20 years too, except for a few old standbys. My local Mart doesn't even sell cheap 308 ammo anymore. Getting brass will be easy, just as it is for any other headstamp that hasn't been "alive" in decades (6.5 mag, 284, 350 mag, etc). The round works and works well, easily the equal of the 7-08, but definitely overlap. It simply needed both corporate and journalistic pimping to get it going. It garnered neither, which makes it the perfect "loony" caliber. I love it when "knowledgable" local hunters look at me like I'm from Mars when the 260 comes out.

Doc: I guess you're right!

I have wanted a .260 Rem for several years now. I remember reading about them in 1998 when I lived in TX. I thought it would be the perfect whitetail cartridge. I have tried on 2 seperate occassions to buy a .260. Both times, the dealers checked and their suppliers said they could not get them. This was from 1999, and then 2002, in 99 I settled for the .257 Robers, and then in 02, when with the 7mm08, each of which I have long departed with. I have since given up, and if I happen to run across one when I have extra money, I'll pick it up. That being said, I have only handled two in my life time. One a Remington 700 SS, and the other the 18 1/2" Model Seven, both times I was visiting the areas, and couldn't buy.

Oh dear ! I ve got a 7-08, a 260 and a 6.5x55 on the way , all good IMHO. I use the 260 for lighter stuff and foxes as I came to think the 260 is what the .243 should have been, and the 7-08 for everything else. The 260 is based in a Tikka 595 action, and the 7-08 on a Sako 75.

I guess the 243 users will tell me I am mistaken but....

ATB

T260

I have a model 7 in 260 and a Brown 1885 low wall. Never had a problem buying bullets and now handload. Look forward to trying a berger. Have used nosler partitions mostly. They kill deer very effectively.

Where can I find a 700 ADL synthetic in .257 Roberts?

Well, if it does, then there will be a perfect spot for the 257-308!

I have 1 and an extra, new, take-off barrel.

If you're looking to buy, they show up on GA and AA on occasion, but be prepared to pay a premium price since they are a limited, non-cataloged configuration.

Jeff

Probably the Internet is about the only place now that they are available. Gunbroker might have one.

I have read that the .260 is popular with target shooters. Perhaps that will ensure a supply of brass and bullets? My Kimber .260 shoots 95 grain v-maxes and 120 grain speers to the same point of impact, making it a versatile gun/cartridge indeed.

I couldnt afford a NULA 257Roberts, picked up a M84 Kimber in 260. Havent looked back. It is the 'Better Bob' in a 6 Lb 3 Oz package for $1500 less than the NULA. I can shoot bullets heavier than my old 257 and have the same light bullet capability. Remington is even putting out a nice fluted barrel
special run this year. So, 260 fans have something to look forward to. Oh, the Kimber is still available as are others.

Estacado

I agree, I also commend all the mfg's for trying new concepts or what not. But if they don't make money, not much much they can. I feel Remington was ahead of the times with 5mm, 6.5RM, and even the .350RM.
It was once written, and as the writer put it, one can't help but think what would be if the .280 came out prior to the .270.
I for one in that instance don't think it would have made much difference. Even though they are almost identical performance given 10 grs. difference in bullet weight, with one being a "7mm" bore, the other a "7mm" groove
The .270 was at that time, and still is uniquely American. And it filled the bill for those that wanted slightly less recoil, with slighty more range capabilities than the 30-06. Then also, the 7mm cal. hasn't really been all that popular here in the USA. But the 7x57 was and still used with great success in other parts of the world. But the 7mm RM has done well. We are still primarily country of .30 cal shooter/hunters. If one looks at the 30-30, .308, .30-06, and .300WM sales. The 8mmRM is another example,,,awesome Elk round, just didn't bring in the $$$$.
I'm suprised that Winchester themselves didn't persue the .308 beyond the .243 and .358, but evidently their market anylist, didn't see merrit in the 7-08 or others. But all Mfg's have had their share of disappointments.
The 6.5's never have had much influence with American market. But it still has a lot of potential. I for one never gave the 6.5's much thought until recently. It will be unfortunate if there are no longer any production guns being made for .260. But it's all a money game. It's our buying dollars that influence mfg's decissions. I still praise all for at least trying.

Dave

Sir, please show us some evidence that the 270 has more range capability than the 30-06. Thank you.

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I am reading in the last few months quite a few comments about the 260Rem that it is a the 'secret cartridge amongst knowledgable deer hunters."

hopwey they don't keep the secret too long......

Not sure I understand the question. Unless my memory fails, the .277 130 grain bullet has about the same BC as the 180 or 190 grain .308 bullet and can go 3100 fps. This is the same "long range capability," as far as hitting is concerned, as a .300 Weatherby firing a 180 or 190 grain bullet, which is much more than a 30-06. By "hitting" I mean drop and wind deflection, not striking energy.

Try comparing bullets of the same weight in the 270 and 30-06. Granted, the 30 cal bullets have lower SD (and maybe BC, depending on the bullets used).

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OK. Without consulting the ballistics tables, I suspect you will find the following:

With decently pointed bullets, the 130 grain .277 bullet has A LOT BETTER ballistic coefficient than the 130 grain .308. It will be far superior at long range in terms of wind deflection. The 130 grain .308 will start off at higher velocity but after a litle bit, perhaps 200 yards or so, the .277 bullet will be moving faster. If it's moving faster, it will strike with more energy and more momentum.

The 180 and 190 grain 308 bullets have a much higher B.C. than the 130 grain 277 bullets of equall form. your memory must be getting like mine.

Hi BR,
With all due respect, I was stating what has been a trend for over 50 yrs with a fair percentage of the firearms buying public. A want for speed, so that they may shoot a little farther. I in no way meant it to be statement of practicality.
But, it is pretty much accepted that the .270 shoots faster than the 06 with bullets of like SD's. If it shoots faster it also flattens trajectory, making ranges "slightly" extended. But only if you set up each the same way. For comparision, PBR(point blank range)on the computer works about as well as any.. The difference between the NP 130 gr. .277 at 3000fps vs the 30-06 NP 165gr at 2900fps is a wopping 8 yds on 6" target. Pretty skinny I know, so skinny it's anorexic. But again, I didnt say it was pragmatic, just that's what is perceived by a good share the buying public.

Personally, I have never owned a .270, and have been served quite well with the different 30-06's I have had.

Best Regards
Dave

Also, it really isn't logical to compare different calibers with the same bullet weight. BC's of course will have an effect, Ideally one would want the same SD, and same BC to get an apples to apples comparision. But when you compare same bullet weight for 2 different calibers, it becomes apples to oranges.

For the above post I used Nosler Balistic Tips in the program, for like construction, although there was a .042 difference in BC in favor od the .30 cal. 165 gr but only .006 difference in SD. That SD difference is about as close as one can get, unless you go to 120gr/.277 vs 150gr/.308. Then you are looking at better than 200 fps difference in favor of the .270.

Again, all due respect,

Dave

For example, let's look at the 140 grain .277" TSX vs. the 168 grain .308". Out of the .270 Win the 140 is doing 3030 fps at the muzzle, from the .30-06 the 168 is doing 2850. Zero the .270 at 310 yards and the .30-06 at 290 yards and we have a 'point blank' of 367 yards for the .270 and 345 yards for the '06. Out at 500 yards, the drop for the .270 is 25.4 inches and the wind drift in a 10 mph crosswind is 16.9 inches. The drop for the '06 is 32.4 inches and the wind drift is 19.5. So there is your 'range advantage' for the .270, 22 yards more 'point blank range', 7 inches less drop and 2.6 inches less drift out at 500 yards. How useable any of that is clearly depends on the situation. The .270 retains a 180 fps velocity advantage out at 500 yards, the energy is pretty close to the same. The lower recoil of the .270 might allow a shooter to shoot more accurately, but of course that depends on the shooter and the situation.

Thanks DK, for adding that. I was being fairly conservative with my program. With only reference to one manual and load. And I agree, shooter capability have more to do with extended range shooting than cartridge capabilities.

Dave

Not this 270 vs 30-06 $hit again. Its been beat to death too much and the original post was about the 260.

You guys are right - the 270 shoots a little flatter. I knew that and should not have questioned it, especially on this 260 thread. I was just fishing for a bit of disinformation to have a little fun with.

How 'bout that little 260, eh? What a sweet little deer rifle. Mine is a Rem M7SS, and it outshoots me. Hits pretty hard too, certainly hard enough for deer. My youngest son has laid claim to mine so I might have to get one of those Tikkas before they jack-up the price.

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"I was just fishing for a bit of disinformation to have a little fun with."

And just what made you think you were dealing with someone uninformed?

If you handload is really doesn't matter if it disappears as a factory round. It'll take a lot of years for brass to disappear and even then you'll have .243's and 7/08's to reshape to your heart's content. Plus the factory rifle you have in .260 Remington will be worth more than the basic calibers. After all, it'll be "Rare!" as they say at gun shows.