In a thread about black bear cartriges Mule Deer raised the issue quoted below in response to someones .35 Whelen load. Since I also use R-15 it caught my attention and led me to ask, what the heck is going on here? When I read the statement that the previous poster was over by perhaps five grains I thought it was a typo. I've read a lot of JB's work and made use of a lot of his writing so I know that he knows his stuff. I checked the Alliant website and lo and behold it is now saying 54 grains is the max load with R-15 when it used to say 59.5 which agrees with my Modern Reloading, Second Edition . This is a huge difference in charge weight. Did R-15 change that much or was the previous pressure testing that bad? According to Modern Reloading the pressures were quite reasonable at 59.5 grains of R-15 and a 250 grain bullet in the Whelen. I've used probably five or six pounds of R-15 and this exact load in my Whelen and everything has seemed great. Do you think they changed R-15 and I've simply been using the old version?

Chuck


Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Since you are a relatively new member, you have probably missed the discussions of how the traditional "pressure signs" aren't very accurate. Your load is WAY above what Nosler recommends (and they pressure tested it) for the .35 Whelen, by 5 grains. You may not be seeing any signs of high pressure, but your rifle is. The .35 Whelen is simply not capable of .338 Winchester muzzle velocities at normal pressures.

I have been using RL-15 for some time in my Whelen's with 250 gr Speers, Partitions and Hornady RN's and the 225 gr Partition and TSX. I use Winchester brass and do have different maximums depending upon the bullet being used. With the 250's my max load for the Speer is less than that of the Hornady and the Partition is less than the Speer. My maximum load for the 225 gr Partition is less than that of the TSX. I have not noticed any change in the powder's characteristics over the years. I suspect that different firms may develop the Whelen loads to the maximum SAMMI pressure of the 30-06 while others may take them to the higher levels that other rounds based upon the same case are SAAMI rated at which is worth 5 kpsi or so IIRC. Muledeer would likely have a steer on this. I see this a lot with the 9.3x62 data too and my loads in that round do exceed almost all published loads but have proven quite safe for many years for me. From my testing using case measurement methods and a chronograph I find that the 250's can go 2450-2550 fps and the 225's can go 2600-2700 fps in my 22" Whelen barrels. Anything more is suspect IMO and no critetr will "know" the difference in that 100 fps.

My 35 Whelen is a 250 Speer GS over 59 gr RE 15 for 2500 from my 22" barrel Whelen. I'll have to look back over my notes but I'm thinking in my rifle, 54 grains RE 15 would get me ~ 2300 ft/sec.

That is strange for sure.

I followed Alliants data as a guide with the 250gr speers and loaded right up to alliant's listed max. When I switched to the 225gr TSX I used a chrono and just added poweder till I hit 2650 fps. Thats 62 gr RL 15 (22" rem classic).

I wonder what pressure Nosler's loads tested to?

Yeah, I'm kind of confused. I've shot a lot of Reloder 15 through my Whelen with loads that were approved before but are now apparently considered to be over max. To me it has seemed to be the perfect powder - temperature tolerant, as accurate as any that I've tried and faster than any. Before I'd throttle bact to 54 grains and 2300 fps (which is what Alliant says on their website) I'd likely go back to using IMR-4064 and splitting the difference.

60 R15 witth 225's is ove max now too?

Hmmm

You have to consider the old Springfields and Winchester Model 95 leveraction rifles that have been rebored, rebarreled to 35 Whelen. The first Whelen I ever handled was a well worn Model 95. Also there is a heck of a variation in throat length in various rifles, mine is very long allowing me to use 59.0 grains of RL15 under the 250 grain Speer easily. I just work up the old fashioned way till I see pressure signs and back off two grains.

I find this change from Alliant to be reprehensible. Wonder if some "fast" lots got out the door.?.
I could interpret this as telling me that I should no longer use their powder. I have no trouble returning to 4064. Screw 'em.

I wonder if the Remington pump action rifles in 35 Whelen are part of the reason the max loads of RL15 were reduced.

My Remingtom pump in 35 whelen has NO trouble handeling max loads. Even the old 59 grain load of RL15. This was putting me a bit over 2500 fps. Which I feel is an ideal range for the whelen. No problem with extraction. No signs of pressure.

I Think this it is a case of "Attorney CYA" on the part of the powder & bullet makers.

I suspect the load changes are a matter of a switch from copper crusher to piezio electric measuring devices. A round such as the Whelen really doesn't demand the sort of load development that would require testing and re-testing for every manual put together by manufacturers. Old data hanging around too long is as likely an answer as any.

Then again, I have been wrong before. It may be a nefarious plot to keep me from buying that new Ruger.

I'm more than a little miffed at this apparent lack of info. I note on Alliant's website that they are not giving pressures associated with that load. I'm guessing about 45-48,000 PSI.

Simply put - there can't be that much difference between older lots (older than 1 yr) and the newer lots. I have several Alliant guides and they show 59.5 gr as max at 48,400 PSI. I suspect the psi is actually CUP but that ain't what it says. If there is that much difference between then (2005) and now then they should have put out a bulletin. Either they were doing it wrong up until 2005 or they have backed way off for some reason.

As another anomaly, take a gander at the new Nosler manual for the 35 Whelen and 225 Partitions - 2800 ft/sec with several powders. That ain't gonna happen in my rifle...............

I don't buy the fast barrel/slow barrel argument much. Physics is physics and with SAAMI specs, we shouldn't see wide variations in standardized equipment on pressure or velocity.

In the end, I have a couple of sources of pressure tested data that says 59 gr of RE 15 under a cup and core 250 gr bullet is safe in the 35 Whelen. 2500 ft/sec has been the standard velocity in the 35 for more years than I've been alive. I'm sticking with it.

"You have to consider the old Springfields and Winchester Model 95 leveraction rifles that have been rebored, rebarreled to 35 Whelen. The first Whelen I ever handled was a well worn Model 95."

Well, there are a lot more tired old .30-06 rifles than there are Whelens, and the published loads for the '06 can be snappy.

Has anyone interested in this actually called Alliant? Sounds like a good way to figure it out to me...

Yes I have and the Tech Support guys answer was Uh, I think Speer is giving us the data now. So I asked him if the powder (RL15) had been changed at all since the last manual and he stated that it had not been changed. I also asked what method of presssure testing had been done and if that had been changed and he stated he did not know. Now I asked him what the maximum pressuer of the loads for the 35 Whelen in the new manual were and he stated he did not know. That ended the call.

As an aside I have just built a Whelen with a 20 inch tube that will just break 2500 fps at 59.5 Gr RL 15 with a Hornady 250 Gr round nose with sub .75 inch groups at 100 yds with no pressure signs. I have not, however, had time to test loads with any other bullet. BTW in my rifle 54 Gr RL 15 pushes the same bullet to 2190 fps.

I tried with alliant but still don't have any answers. Good luck guys. Bear

Thanks for that info 4xbear. I'm watching this pretty close because I've got one that should be on the way soon. That's a pretty big difference and I'd like to know the reasons behind it.

Thanks again,

JCM

I run 59 grs. of R-15 under 225 gr. AccuBonds, and I have shot some fantastic groups with an average muzzle velocity of a little over 2700 ft/sec through my 22� Whelen barrel. Incidentally, this load is listed in Nosler�s #6 reloading guide and it works for me. CP.

JCM

No problem. The main goal here is to have good SAFE load data and I too am really scratching my head over this one. Bear

4XBear, thanks for making the call. I had the phone in my hand to call when I decided to check this discussion first. This is interesting, 59.5 grains was said to be safe and many of us have been using that load. Now Alliant has reduced the load by a significant amount and they don't know why. I don't care for their communication but I like the powder.

I was mostly reacting at first not to the exact charge the guy in quextion was using, but his muzzle velocity, close to 2700 fps with the Nosler Partition, which indicates WAY too warm a load for the .35 Whelen.

The Partition tends to create higher pressures than the Hornady Interlock of the same caliber and weight, mostly because of longer bearing surface but also because the Partition tends to "bump up" then the rear core is booted by expanding powder.

So I looked up Nosler's own data for the 250 Rl-15 in the .35 Whelen and found 53.0 grains as maximum, for a muzzle velocity of over 2500 fps. This is when I suggested the guy's load might be a little hot. It might not be with a Hornady Interlock.

I am getting a little nervous reading this thread. In my .350 Rem Mag, I am loading 60.0 gr of R15 under a 225 gr Woodleigh. Never checked the velocity out of my custom shop model 7. Opinions on this load? It is very accurate, but who cares if it is not safe.

I have been shooting 57 grains of RL15 with the speer HC 250. My whelen has a 26 1/2" shilen barrel and I get @ 2550 fps. I tried to work up to 59.5 but it wasn't happening, to much pressure.I have over 1000 rounds of this load thru this gun and no problems. I have used fed,rem,and winchester brass without any change in velocity and some of these cases have been loaded eight times without any trouble.One difference with my load is the OAL. I'm running longer than the books call for and this might have a small effect.

Sakoluvr My 5th edition of Nosler does not even list RL15 for the 350 Rem. Mag under the 225 Partition. The fastest load they list is
W748 59 grs. @ 2700 fps. Next would be IMR4320 60grs. @ 2640. They
also noted that the W748 load was the most accurate load tested.
This was 22" barrel and OAL of 2.800" Hope this may be of use to you. Cheers NC

Have you guys seen this data?

http://35cal.com/loading.html#660

Uh, I just looked at the data you reference. I consider it way over maximum and the man's loading practices ill-conceived. I advise everyone reading this to steer very clear of thhis data.

Here is a note that appears next to one of the loads on the site:

"near top load
significant case head expansion (.511/.531) but no ejector slot imprint yet"

From this note it is obvious that this man has no clue of the definition of "case head expansion." The 0.020" of expansion he experienced is probably measured on the pressure ring of the case body, not the head. True case head expansion of 0.020" would indicate astronomical pressure. According to the Speer reloading manual #13, actual case head expansion of 0.0003" to 0.0005" in once-fired cases indicates pressure in the neighborhood of 60,000 PSI. Yes, my decimal places are in the correct positions.

And then we have the statement, "but no ejector slot imprint yet." An imprint of the ejector slot in the headstamp of a case indicates the brass is flowing back into the slot due to astronomical pressure. If the man typically adds powder to his loads until he sees this imprint, he is flirting with disaster - even death. Just because it is easy for handloaders to overload their ammo does not make it wise.

-

Actually, with one make of belted brass I have seen .020" of case expansion on the belt with FACTORY loads. This brass is obviously a lot softer than some others, but it held up fine.

This is also why the case-head method of pressure-guessing is kind of insane, especially given that most of us have a far better tool for the job these days, namely the chronograph.

John, have you any plans on doing an article on the .350 mag, similar to the one you did on the .358 Win?

I have seen that guys data before and would not even consider it safe if fired in the next county. He seems to think that if some is good more is better and too much is just enough! Be careful out there. BTW your decimal points ARE in the correct place. Bear

Good Morning John. I agree. With out a chronograph I just don't know what I would do. They are the greatest thing sine sliced bread. Bear

It is true that case heads expand more on the first firing than on subsequent firings at the same pressure, and belted case heads tend to expand more than non-belted case heads. It also appears to be true that some people don't understand how or where to measure case head expansion, and given the knowledge to do so may lack the dexterity.

The truth is that 0.020" of actual case head expansion, correctly measured, on once-fired brass, is indicative of a problem, and most likely extremely high pressure.

-

I recall the RL-15 Alliant data, which has been repeated in this cartridge, even using magnum primers at the 59.5 gr. charge; the late Finn Aagaard used it in Handloader. Of course, he hit the published VELOCITY for the 250 gr. bullet.

In two particular 35's I've toyed with, 56gr. of RL-15 has been max over 3 lots and 15-20 lbs of that powder with 5 diff 250 gr bullets.

One should also note RL-22 charges for the 338 Win.and all bullets listed in that manual. I have hit those speeds, but NEVER those charges!

Agree with JB (big shock) use your chronograph. If you are getting speeds not published in ANY manual, better put on a welding mask when you shoot....the last imprint may not be on cartridge brass.

Federal or Wby?

I just purchased a 35 whelen in 700 CDL, 5 pounds of RL-15, and a bunch of 250 gr boolits, so I'm quite interested in this discussion. I found a link to the 2005 alliant data for 35 whelen on Steve's pages (http://stevespages.com/zip/alliant_reloading_manual.zip)
if anyone cares to look.

I suppose I'll work up as normal, but start a little lower than I might've with the older data. Once I find a sweet spot with powder weight I'll start tweaking OAL.

The same thing happened with my 300win data from Barnes 3 to 4. Barnes 4 would make me 3 grains over max with RL-22 but no pressure signs are evident.

I'm wondering? Remington not too long ago brought out the M750 semiautomatic rifle in .35 Whelen. Could the "downloading" be to make loads that won't beat that rifle up?
heck, remington 250 gr. bullet ammo has never come anywhere near the advertised velocity in my three rifles. The two factory guns, one Remington 700 Classic and one Ruger M77 RS will only barely reach 2250 FPS and my custom Mauser about 2325 FPS with Remington's factory loads.
I've never been able to reach Alliant's 59.5 gtr. charge of RL-15 either.
OH well. I just loaded up a test series with RL-15 and the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. I haven't had a chance to shoot them yet, but hopefully sometime this week end.
Paul B.

PJ, how many grains did you load up to? Post your results when you get a chance to shoot.

Actually, Aagaard wrote in HANDLOADER, No. 184 (December/'96) for the first time on the 35 Whelen in an article entitled "Medium Bores/.338-06 vs. .35 Whelen".

In it, 5 loads were tested at 3.29" using RL-15: 225 Sierra BT (61grs) at 2719 fps; 225 NP (60grs) at 2715 fps; 225 Barnes X (60grs)at 2690 fps; 250 NP (59.5grs)at 2600 fps; and 250 Barnes X (59grs)at 2602 fps, all from his 22" built on a 98 Mauser action. His comment re pressure was: "I used no charges in excess of those found in a loading manual, nor did I tolerate the slightest hint of excess pressure...". 3 other loads were referenced: a 200gr Rem handload using XMR 2015 and 2 factory loads.

In a later HANDLOADER, No.199, he compared the 35 Whelen (along with other cartridges)to the 9.3X62 in penetration tests. The 250gr NP was toned down in that contest to 2504 fps but the load was not given.

Also, Layne Simpson in Rifle, No. 105, gave a comparison between the .338-06 and the .35 Whelen. His Whelen was a custom 22". The 250 NP was not in production, nor was RL-15 at the time. But one of his loads for the 250 Speer, using N-204 (65grs,)was MOA and MV was 2648 fps! I've duplicated that with my 35 Whelen, employing the 250 Hor. SP and RL-15. But it couldn't be done using the 250 NP. The best the NP could do with RL-15 was 2500 fps.

Thanks for the clarification. What you're saying makes a lot of sense. I also use a chronograph as a diagnostic tool and I'd agree that there is no such thing as "free" velocity. I've never had a 250 grain .35 Whelen load hit 2600 fps and I've only used Hornady or Speer 250 grain bullets. With my "medium-medium" .35 Whelen launching a 250 grain bullet a 2550 fps or so I can't imagine what more I'd want from it.

I have a bunch of 250 grain Speers loaded over the 59 grain chg of RL-15. My custom mauser sems to like the load.
That being said, I think I will only shoot it in cool weather, and when the batch I have is done, I will see how much velocity a 57 grain load will give me.
I get just under 2600 FPS with the 59 grains.
...tj3006

57 grains should get around 2500.

We can usually predict what velocity a minor change in powder charge will bring by dividing the "new" charge by the old charge, then multiplying the original velocity with the result. Thus 57/59 = .996 x 2590 ("almost" 2600) = 2502.

This formula works very closely with single-based powders, not quite as well with double-based. But it is generally pretty close with minor charge variations.

One thing that may be going on is that all powders do vary somewhat from lot to lot. I went down to Charlie Sisk's shop in Texas a few years ago and we ran a bunch of pressure/velocity tests. One of the rifles we used was my CZ 9.3x62, and we tested some of the loads I normally use. At that time one of these was 62 grains of RL-15 and the 250-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (now the 250 AccuBond). Everything was identical in the load we tested, except Charlie's lot of RL-15. It took two more grain of powder to equal the velocity I got with my batch of RL-15.

This sort of lot-to-lot variation isn't uncommon. Add that to using a different bullet that might very well create different pressures, and it's no wonder that sometimes data can vary 5 grains or more between different sources of data.

We did confirm, though, that velocity is the best predictor of pressure for the average handloader.

Did you use the same chrono, or did you use Mr. Sisk's? I am assuming (I know, I know) that there is a difference, minor though it may be, in different clocks.

I would love to see a article written around these lines. Showing variations that can & do occur in manuals vs what individual rifles are like in the real world.

For my part, I load 250 grain bullets in my 35 whelens and adujust the charge until I get to or around 2500 fps. It has worked great in both of my custom mauser & my bone stock Remington 7600. My load using 250 grain speers is 57 grains RL 15 in my mauser. Never tried working up a load for the Hot Cors in my Remington yet. After I go through all of my Hornady 250 grain round nose bullets I suspect I will.

I've always used a charge of 58.5 grains of Re 15 under the Hornady 250 grain Spire Point. Never noticed a problem, until I stared using a new 5 lb keg. Compared the new loads with a few of the old lot of Re15 and saw definite pressure indications with new stuff. Ejector marks were obvious on cases loaded with the new powder, but nothing on the old. I'll be backing off a grain or grain or two if I buy another box or two of the Horns.

Right now I'm loading the 250 grain Nosler Partition on top of 55 grains of Re 15. I know it is 2 grains over the book max, but the velocity is below the book (about 2460) and I see no sign of pressure either on the cases or by recoil level as compared to the Horn load. I'll probably use this load for elk in couple of weeks.

That load will work great for elk. I just clobbered a big cow elk head on into the chest with a 250 speer HC at 50 yards. She turned and fell. The bullet did loose it's core ( your NP shouldn't) but it wasn't until it was about to come to rest under the hide.

i have tried RL 15 in my whelen but have had a better experience with Varget. Top load of 55gr yields 2300 fps in my rifle with a 250FXB... 61gr gets 2684fps.... the load I have been using since 1996. because of the substantial freebore, 0.110", i have a rifle /case combination that has an 11% greater effective volume than a minimum standard set up. This is still a stiff load but exhibit no traditional pressure signs, speed is not one because of the increased effective volume

To me, loading for the Whelen is fairly simple. If you're using medium speed powders (Varget, RE 15, 4064), you can get 2450-2500 ft/sec with just about any cup and core bullet at ~ 60,000 Psi. The case won't hold enough slower powder (4350's) to build enough pressure to approach 2500.

I tend to look at the relationship between known pressure, powder speed, and velocity when developing loads. For my 35 Whelen, I stopped at 2500 ft/sec when doing load development using 250's. If I needed a grain or two to each 2500, so be it. I've been doing it that way since I bought a chronograph and was pointed in that direction by JB a while back.

In a much improved 35 Whelen case my load was 65 grains RL 15 with 225 grain Noslers and it would do 2670 from my 15" barrel. 3 shot 1/4" groups were common.

I just joined your 24hourcampfire forum this past week. I was a little suprised to find I'm not exactly the "toast of the town" here. I use ReL15 in my 35Whelens. But I feel the need to clarify a few things about my personal page - http://www.35cal.com/loading.html

Ok - some over published max - but take some time to read the text not just the tables throughout the page referenced. I'm not a dangerous dim wit. Experimental reloading (load development) has been my hobby for almost two decades now. I'm fixated on 35s though I also load for other calibres. In the early days I had a few primers fall out upon opening an action (excessive pressures) and a few sticky bolt lifts. Beyond that I have had no unscheduled moments of extreme excitment related to over inflated brass, breeches or barrels. I hope the trend continues.

Yep it would if it happened. But to clarify - the (.511/.531) is not a before and after measurement at all. But rather a measurement taken on the case body immediately ahead of the belt (.511) and another taken on the belt immediately ahead of the extractor groove(.531) after firing the round. In other words, at the range I simply noted down after firing a test round its diameter at two points on the case. I keep my micrometer beside me when shooting often. I often mic cases as they go into the breech and then when they come out - I measure any difference just ahead of the extractor slot primarily.



How else does one say that there is no ejector slot imprint observed when the fired case is examined other than just say it (mauser type slot in this case). It's instructional to note that sometimes elevated pressures can be noted by one indicator and not another. No I did not shovel in more powder in this case precisely BECAUSE the case head was indicating an unacceptable level of expansion to me.

Lastly my "Loading page" does not present load data in the usual sense anyway - but simply range results with my personal comments to self. They are load notes and observations - warts and all. Some loads are well over max according to some published sources. Yes I know - I ought not. But I do not "recommend" them to any one - see my disclaimer. Going public with my load development notes on this page has sometimes been misunderstood though I try to be clear.

Any who - I'm thru.

Whelen B- what the hell took you so long to join the fire? Welcome, and keep the data flowing!

My .350 Rem Mag load (from your site) of 60.0 gr of R15 under a 225 gr Woodleigh has been a steady diet in my Mod 7. Accuracy is superb.

I've met Whelen B a couple times in gunshops since we don't live too far apart from each other. I'm sure his data really is just his observations. I never got the impression of BS or bravado from talking to him.

On the LoadData website, they still list some of the RL-15 loads in the 58-59 gr. range. I have been using 58 gr of RL-15 for some time in my Rem 700 Classic under a 225 gr Sierra BT. I have not seen any pressure signs. I wonder why the changes?

Just double checked on my handloads from previous loadings and the best load with the 225 gr. Sierra was 58 gr. of RL-15. I have shot 40-50 of those loads and have about that many left, but now I am a little nervous.

I wouldn't feel nervous with that load if no signs of excess pressure are noted as you say. I have a 700 Classic in 35Whelen too and that load is easily digested in it. It seems quite a reasonable load. Chronograph a few shots if you want another key indicator of whats going on. You are probably around 2550MV or so(???). As has been noted already on this thread, many are shooting that 58gr. charge (or slightly more) behind heavier 250gr cup and core bullets without issues. In a sound modern gun should be OK if pressure signs don't say otherwise. Just my thoughts but yours matters the most re. your own handloads.

Incidentally a correction, I said above;
Nope - I actually "re-registered" a week or so ago forgetting that I was already a forum member for about 6 months already now. Kinda lost track of that. Just thought some might wonder.

Has all of the R-15 data been lowered for all calibers listed, or just the Whelen data? If its been the latter, the issue is the plethora of rebored, rebarreled or just old rifles in this venerable caliber. If all of the data has changed, then obviously there is some hot R15 out there. Be nice to know, since I use the powder in three different calibers.

It's not just the .35 Whelen data and it's not just R-15 data. Alliant has revised much (perhaps nearly all?) of their published rifle data in this year's guide, with, as near as I can tell, nary a peep of explanation, save for perhaps what was mentioned above. (Huh-huh...uh...yeah...uh...we're using Speer data now...or something...huh-huh, huh-huh...)

Whelen B. I have your page bookmarked. Some interesting stuff, as I shoot both the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen.
With that said, I too wonder about much of the published data for the .35 Whelen. However, considering the fact that I have seen several low numbered Springfields and at least one 1895 Winchester that was a 30-06 rebored to .35 Whelen, I can understand the reluctance of the publishers of loading manuals to provide full power loads for the cartridge. Seems we have the same problem with the 7x57 Mauser and 30-06 as well. Guess I can't blame them but I, for on would love to see data for those three cartridges loaded to modern pressure levels.
Paul B.

This is confusing.

I've shot 300+ rounds of 225 gr Sirra ove 60 gr R-15 in the last ten years. I still have quite a bit of that lot of powder also.

I don't quite get 2600 fps out of my 22 in barrel.

I have used the same load with NPT and TBBC [20-30 rounds of each] all with no pressure signs. Still on the same 100 cases 30 that are still unused. These get around 2640fps or what I get with The TBBC factory load. I used the same load with 200 gr bulk Core-Lokts but they shoot so far away fro the 225's that I don't use them anymore either.

This 60 R15 was the max load in the Barnes manual for a 225 X bullet a few years ago before I quit on them.

My Ruger .35 Whelen as a custom barrel and I believe the chamber was cut on the tight side. I get 2700fps out of 225gr TSX with 55gr of RL15 in a 22" barrel. Much lower charge than most people.

Dancing Bear, When I first started shooting my Whelen I was able to use somewhat higher charges of RL 15 compared the newer stuff. I believe Alliant changed the powder a few years back to be temperature stable so something must have changed when they did. Nosler lists 59 gr of RL 15 for a speed in the high 2700 fps range (I can't remember the exact speed off hand, 2789 fps?) so I can't see why you would need to reduce your loads when you are only getting 2600-2640 like you state. When you buy a new lot of powder I would difinitely start low and work up carefully. With the newer RL 15 I get around 2650 fps with 57 gr and 225 gr bullets in my custom gun.

WB,
It is good to see you posting here. And, whether you knew or not, your first was on my birthday...

Did you get my New Year's greeting?

To the rest: WhelenB's a very careful and conscientious guy. I've known him for a very long time. And honest too.

WhelenB- Ive followed Your data when first loading for My 350 mag. We have talked before. Although my loads do not contain as much powder as some of Your data shows, Your use of RL15 kept Me interested and has proved to be safe and accurate. Thanks. Don't miss meals!

I use RL-15 I/A/W the Nosler Manual.

In a 22" 12 twist barrel I'm getting around 2,400 fps with 53.0 grs and 250 gr Partitions. I've got some 250 gr Hornadies loaded but haven't tested them yet.

Mike

In case anybody cares on the same day using Rem factory 200 gr loads I got 2785, 2775, 2793n fps.


Mike

it takes 60gr of R-15 to get 2700fps out of my 22" bbl rem 700, 63gr of varget is just over 2900fps, with the 225TSX. Standard load is 61gr Varget and a 250FXB, 2684fps since 1996. varegt really works well in my rifle, it is long throated and I seat the bullet 1 caliber in the case. Top load for varget (55gr) and a 250gr bullet is 2300fps. Of course there are industry standards but each rifle is an individual and must be treated that way. I was not getting typical velocity for the powder charge, this tells me I can add more powder to get typical velocity, so i did and stopped at 63gr for the 250 bullet beacause of eradic ignition 100fps SD, so back of two grs and SD is about 10fps , good hunting groups, no problems in 10 years and many hundreds of rounds expended.