Hello all! A female friend of mine has asked my advice in the purchase of a hand gun. She wants to use it for self defense at her home in Texas. She is just learning to shoot a hand gun. I would like to hear from the experienced hand gunners on what a good model and caliber would be for this use. I am not very experienced in hand guns.

Take her to as many shops as you can so she find one that 'fits'. It's akin to buying shoes without trying them on.

Let her work the slide on the autos to ensure she can. Shooting a few will help greatly to figure out if she likes revolvers or autos.

Sage advice. I'd rather a gun she could and would shoot at someone than one she's scared of.

870 20 gauge youth with a cylinder bore choke. A two-handgun.

S&W .38 spl model 10 with a 4" heavy barrel. Fit it with the Pachmayr grips which fit her hand the best.

Load it with 148 grain mid range wadcutters.

As with any tool, teach her or have someone teach her the proper way to use it.

A gun for defense is also a place to not save money. Stick with the well respected brands and have her buy a case of ammo.

This one.

This Pachmayr grip fits the S&W model 10 square butt frame,..is designed for smaller hands, and is a very good accessory.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=616076&t=11082005

Round butt M10's are nice. Had one with a 4" tube.

Never teach a woman to shoot better than you do.

Yeah,..they are.

Any time someone asks about a defense handgun for a woman to keep in the house, I always answer the same thing.

The 4" HB model 10's are no nonsense defensive tools,..are simple to operate, dependable as a stone ax, and they carry enough weight to absorb the recoil of the .38 chambering.

They're very tough to beat,...especially for a novice who wants a quality handgun for serious purposes.

I can teach a woman anything, so long as I'm not married to her.


Nice thing about the M10's is there are only a few million floating around.

[/quote]

I can teach a woman anything, so long as I'm not married to her. [/quote]




dang I sure would enjoy watching you teach some of em to pizz standing up after about a 1/2 bottle of Crown or R&R!


not much sexier than a woman drunk enough to enter a pee writing contest in the snow.

I've seen one fill a Coke bottle while lying on a pool table.

some guys have all the freaking luck!



was it clear? did it look like she was well hydrated?

You're assuming it was a woman he watched........

I like to make 'em learn the Glock 19. When they've figured that one out they are qualified to pick another gun they can stick with. New shooters don't know what fits, they don't know how to hold a weapon. Pick one, get her classes.

They don't know if they can't get their hand around a double stack grip? Ok........

It was a her. And it was quite incredible. In fact a lot of guys lost a lot of money on that one. That was in Big Piney, Wy, but she may have moved on.

You had to be there.

My Wife carries one of these and likes it very well. I did replace the wooden grips with a set of Pachmayr grips though. Even though she is missing part of her index finger and must use her middle finger on the trigger, she has very good control of it. After many hundreds of shots the firearm has performed well also.



I might add Steelhead brings up a very good point about being able to work a slide on an auto. My Wife had trouble with that and didn't trust herself to be able to do so in an emergency. The revolver is straight forward and she has all the confidence in the world in it.

You never know where you are gonna find the next Obama supporter.....

I wonder if she could have done it if she had Bell's palsy?

I could guess.

If anybody would know.......

Met a lot of ladies who grabbed a gun and didn't think it felt right. A few hours later they were fine with it. All but the smallest hands will go around a Glock grip, and they shoot them better than little revolvers.

You are exactly right. Almost any beginning shooter will do well with one of the striker-fired pistols (Glock, XD, M&P) in 9mm. The little revolvers are really experts' tools.

Starting ladies or kids on a snubbie revolver can be as frustrating as making someone shoot a .410 for their first scattergun. It often turns out not to be a good experience for any involved.

Scott

I say a DA revolver is the only way to go to begin with. I will only carry auto's and DAO ones at that for a reason. In a home defense gun one needs it to be as simple as possible for sleepy/sudden need to use it. The less BS one has to deal with the better. My recommendation is 2 revlovers a .22LR revolver, like a Taurus 94 and a .38 special be it a Taurus 85, the new 6 shot J-frame the 856 or a 3 or 4" S&W in the same chambering. A brick of ammo for the .22 and a case for the .38 spl.

Later if she wants one can progress to autos and the manual of arms they require.

Simplicity is best with a new shooter. Revolver and lots of practice.

The manual of arms for a Glock is pretty simple: grasp, aim, squeeze trigger. There are different frame sizes so unless the lady has very small hands the chances of finding a fit are good. The recoil springs in them don't seem nearly as heavy as those in a lot of other makes, so after a bit of familiarization making the gun ready shouldn't be an issue.

I like DA revolvers too, but most that I've tried could use a good professional action tune to lighten, but more importantly smooth that long pull.

The challenge is fitting a woman�s hand with guns made for men. Women tend to have narrow hands with long fingers, somewhat the opposite of men. The guns I have found that fit a woman�s hand best are:

Revolvers
Ruger SP101 with factory grips
S&W K frame, Round butt with Pachmayr Compac Professional grips (the one with the open backstrap)
Revolver grips � Stay away from anything that has finger grooves, as they are surely to be too far spaced out.

Autos
Kahr K9 series (either steel or polymer frame)
Astra A70 or A75 (very high quality single stack 9mm & .40�s that no one knows about)
S&W 3913

I have taught a lot of women to shoot, and I�ve always had the best luck with these guns.

In a revolver I would recommend a Ruger GP100 or a Smith& Wesson 686. You can start out with low power 38 Special loads and work your way up to mid power 357 loads like the 110gr load from Federal, Remington or Winchester, or the mid power 357 Golden Sabre load from Remington. In a pistol I would recomend a DAO pistol like the S&W M&P or Sigma, the Ruger SR9 or P95, the Glock 17, Springfield XD9 or a myrad of other DAO pistols in 9mm Luger. The 38 Special and 9mm Luger are easy rounds to control and are reasonably inexpensive to practice with.

+1

My wife has a friend that carries a Ladysmith and loves it. It is a snubbie but for home use, not target it appears to be a good litle ladies gun.

My wife carries a Kel-Tech 380 auto and likes it well to carry. She also has a Glock 27? 40cal sub-compact. She shoots the bigger Glock better and that's what lays on her side of the bed.

Just don't come home unexpected and try to scare them for fun when they have guns. While its pretty sexy when she is standing there with a left sock on only holding a gun, it kind of kills the moment when its pointed at you.

Simplicity AND low recoil.

As for grips, the new S&W M&P semi-auto with the swappable backstraps satisfies all of the above.

Scott

You are still wrong, but that's ok.

There's no restrike IIRC in a Glock and I'm talking about clearing jams FTF's and FTE's. There is more to do than simply pull the trigger again as there is in a DA revolver. To begin with simplicity is best period. Auto's- all of them require more training and practice.

No matter how many times I tell her there's nothing sexier than a good looking woman who can handle a large-frame single-action auto (preferably a 1911)well, my wife sticks with her 3 inch Model 36.

True. That's so natural to me at this point that I don't actively think about it.

Learning to manage a DA pull is still a pretty steep hill for a beginner though.

The recommendation toward revolvers is somewhat stereotypical and often wrong. It has been the experience of almost every law enforcement and military agency in the world that people (including women) tend to shoot auto pistols better. They have better ergonomics and better triggers (on average), which results in higher scores. You don�t have to agree with me, but if you disagree, then your argument is with factual data, not my opinion.

9 times out of 10, if you hand an auto that fits her to a woman, she will shoot it better, have more confidence and enjoy herself much more on the range.

Here's my one datapoint. My wife is completely freaked out by the concept of the slide coming back towards her when the gun fires, so she will only shoot revolvers. Just something to consider.

KevinGibson- I have had the honor of introducing quite a few women to shooting handguns. I actually have quite a few handguns that serve only as trainers for new shooters. After being familiarized with a variety of autoloaders and revolvers, the split between wheelguns and autos has been right at 50/50 for new women shooters. Fit seems to be the biggest issue. Also, several have said that autos do not feel "real"- which is directly related to the confidence issue you mentioned.

I tend to think the best course is to take a trip to the range and let them figure out what they like!

High scores are not the goal to begin with. I'm aware that women can do very well with an auto and revolver as I was a basic marksmanship instructor in my unit. We often had other units "piggyback" on our ranges. Everyone had a PMI class before taking the range. So I've been there and done that.

My reason for starting on a DA revolver is simplicity, my reason for recommending them for training and basic skills development or home defense is again simplicity. Every shot is trigger and sighting work, it requires special attention to create fail to fire, feed and eject scenarios with automatics.

I see no reason for women to avoid an auto pistol that fits them once past the basics, then this goes for everyone IMO. There are many reasons to recommend an auto, capacity, concealability ergonomics etc. Starting on a DA .22 rimfire revolver makes even more sense.

My adult daughter is looking for a concealed carry and home defense firearm, so I've been giving this very question a lot of thought. I can't say that I have a definitive answer, but here's the list I have so far, in no particular order:

3" 38 Spl or 357 double action, such as the Taurus 85 or the Ruger SP101. You can shoot them any whichway and they don't stovepipe. They are dead reliable. If they fail to fire, pull the trigger again. The 3" barrel does add some weight and length, but it also adds a longer sight radius which is helpful in hitting targets out to 25 yards or so.

2.5" 44 Spl, Charter Arms. Yeah, I know they have put out some pretty junky arms during some periods. But they sure got the size, weight, and shape thing right. 44 Spl is not a popular round, to say the least. But it is actually a lower pressure round than 38 Spl, which should help with the short barrel, loud bark thing. It closely duplicates the ballistics of the .45 ACP.

Springfield subcompact 9mm. The "reach" to the trigger is a little shorter than the Glocks. Hard to go wrong with a Springfield in 9mm. As mentioned by several posters, many women cannot operate the slide. If you can't operate the slide, get a revolver. (Exception: The Beretta tilt-barrel models.)

One thing I do have a strong opinion on is this: Get your holster and your safe home storage on the same day you get your firearm. Too many people think the firearm is the big decision, and they'll worry about the other things later.

For the ladies, Cabela's has a nice concealed carry purse, leather, for $50. Hard to beat.

For safe storage, Harbor Freight has digital safes about the size of a microwave for $50... even $40 on sale.

Get those two things taken care of, then get your firearm.

Yes, a great gun. I have one and love it.



Have to respectfully disagree with both those points. Anyone with even marginal strength can work a slide if instructed properly, especially 9mm's and .45's. The .40's have stiffer springs, usually, but are still manageable.

As for the Beretta tilt-barrels, I don't think anything they're chambered for is really a suitable defense cartridge.

Scott

I have had lady friends who just could not shoot the SP101 with the short barrel, and that is understandable. I would go 3 inch barrel.

One thing about the older .38s like the Model 10 is that the grips are small and the handgun is slim. The 4-inch barrel helps. Some came with a bull barrel - easy to shoot, but heavy to pack.

I like the Colt Trooper MkIII with small grips, loaded with .38s instead of .357 Magnum ammo.

Inside the house, teach them to handle a youth model 870 pump or 1100 LT shotgun in 20-gauge.

The Beretta Storm CX4 carbine in 9mm or .45 ACP is hard to beat inside a house.

For most guys, it isn't an issue. For a lot of women it is. My wife simply does not have the grip to rack a slide. It's not uncommon. In my wife's case, it's from carpal tunnel syndrome.

When I'm out of town, I leave my loaded .45 XD in the safe, and she leaves the safe door open at night. All she has to do is pick it up, point and click... unlikely that she would need to reload. Once it's loaded, she operates it just fine.

Didn't this start out for home defense?
Packing shouldn't be an issue. But one gun can surely serve for both.

Good point. Ideal for home defense is probably not exactly ideal for packing.

A little 20 gauge is ideal for home defense, but I've never figured out how to store one so that it is ready to use but inaccessible to the curious hands of my grandkids.

If I knew how to do that, I'd move my wife's 20 gauge into the bedroom.

If it works well for her, then that's fine. I'm not suggesting that women NOT use a revolver; I'm just suggesting that we don't fall into the common trap of: Woman = Revolver.

In the case of my wife, she could not get comfortable with any auto I introduced her to. Too much to think about under stress conditions; racking slide, flipping safety off, not accidentally hitting the mag release, etc...
Bought her a S&W 642 snubbie. Point and pull! She's fine with that, and with the Federal Personal Defense ammo with a 110 grn. bullet, recoil is quite mild even in that lightweight.

Sometimes simple is better!

A woman choosing a first handgun should look for exactly the same things as a man:

1. A grip she can hold;
2. A trigger she can pull;
3. Sights she can see; and
4. Recoil she can handle.

I disagree with any assumption that a revolver or autoloader is best, and here's why.

I once instructed a pair of women who'd received handguns as gifts. One had received a S&W 3913 9mm auto, and the other a Colt SF-VI .38 revolver. Both nice, serviceable guns.

The woman with the revolver lacked the finger strength to pull the double-action trigger.

The woman with the autoloader lacked the overall upper body strength to operate the slide consistently to load and unload the gun. (And yes, I did have her use the "push, not pull" technique.) She also had very long fingernails that made gripping the slide difficult. (And that wasn't going to change.)

My suggestion was that they just trade guns, but I don't think they ever did.

I totally agree that the gun should be selected by the person who's going to shoot it, and only after shooting as many as possible. Last time I was in the market for something new, I went to a range that had a good selection of rentals for a good price, and shot half a dozen 9mms.

Instructors I greatly respect (and who've seen far more guns in action than I have) consistently name the Glock, SIG, Beretta as top of the heap. The S&W M&P auto is coming on pretty strong, too. My friend Todd has over 50,000 rounds through one, with only two parts breakages (despite a "minimalist" approach to maintenance): see http://pistol-training.com/ for reports and training drills.

For what it's worth, the late Bill Jordan gave the daughter of a dear friend a Chief's Special loaded with wadcutters as her "going to college" present. "Never know when you might need it!" One of Bill's favorite lines was, "With an auto, you are only one bad primer away from trouble."

As an only gun, my wife prefers a Sig 226 in 9mm. She can conceal it in her purse better than I can conceal it on my person. Her reasons for the 226 -- "The handle is easy to hold, the trigger works easy enough, and the sights are easy to see." That was many years ago, but it agrees with Frazer's post.

For all our CCW qualifications she's shot "my" 226 and I've shot "her" Ladysmith. Guess I can't claim the Sig anymore.

Ken