any insight as to what the next wsm cartridge is going to be. how about a 338 or 257? I really do not see the potential for "commercial" success for the 223 & 243 WSSMs as they are too limited in scope.

My guess would be a 338 WSM or 338 SAUM, or a 257 WSSM.

New WSM from the good people at Winchester will most likely be either a .257 WSM, a .264 WSM to compete with their old .264 Win. Mag. or lastly the .338 WSM. There have been lots of wildcats already built on all three of the calibers based on the .300 WSM cartridge. As for the success of the .223 and .243 WSSM I think it's way too early to say but the back log of orders for both of these says these two are going to be around for a while. Lawdog

The Winchester people have been asking gun writers to vote for one new WSM caliber. This doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow our opinion, but they don't rule it out either.

I believe it will be a .25 on the "full-size" WSM case, not the WSSM. I don't believe they'll ever do a 6.5, as 6.5's have in general proven to be poison on the American market, despite being very good cartridges. A 6.5 would also be too much like the .270, with no obvious advantages.

There might be a .338 in the future, but in the past Winchester has expressed their doubts on this one, mostly because of occasional feeding problems with the existing WSM's in controlled-feed actions--and hunters would want the .338 in a CF action. Plus, relatively few hunters buy "regular" .338's now, compared to the market for deer/varmint rifles.

We'll have to wait and see! I voted for the .25. Why not? It would fill the narrow gap between the .25-06 and .257 Weatherby.

I can resist anything they bring out as long as they don't do a .35 on the WSM lol. tom

good to see you back in town, how was your hunt? I vote for the 257 also as I just sold my 257 wm to help pay for the silverhawk sbs I just bought but can not afford. the 257 wsm should have similar performance to the wm, but with less powder (a good thing). you really have me spooked about the failures regarding the european import scoped that have "cost you five trophies". I have three of these scope and wish now I had not swapped them for my leupolds. my local dealer had an A-bolt 223 wssm on display yesterday and he said interest is high.

The hunt was great. Got a great old Cape buffalo on the second day, after only seeing 1000+ head and passing up several bulls. Took five very fine plains game animals, including kudu. But the hunting was almost the least of it. The Okavango Delta is perhaps the very best of what is left of "wild Africa" south of the rainforest. Saw 77 elephants and 11 lions, and had lions or leopards in camp half the nights. Saw huge mixed herds of giraffe, wildebeest, zebra, impala, etc. On my previous trips to Africa I have visited some of the finer national parks after hunting, but none compared to everyday life in the Okavango.

One of the other great pleasures was hunting with iron sights. I never had to worry about scopes falling apart, or even dust on the lenses!

no scopes at all??? what calibers and rifle types did you shoot? what a trip, sounds like you had 10 safaris in 1.

A buddy just informed me that he saw a show on the Outdoor Channel last night were Browning people were testing an experimental cartridge--a 257 short magnum--with Barnes bullets. He said they shot a number of animals with the cartridge, including some type of buffalo (cape?) at 200 yards that dropped on the spot.

My partner Dave Scovill shot a repro 1886 Winchester rebarreled to .50-110, using 475-grain HARD-cast bullets and, if I recall correctly, 104 grains of Swiss 1-1/2 black powder. Muzzle velocity was about 1550 fps. Using open sights, he took all the game on the list--buffalo, kudu, lechwe, tsessebe, impala, warthog--and only missed a couple times, on an impala and warthog, I believe. Several bullets were recovered, but only from lengthwise shots and the buffalo. He stopped the buffalo with three quick chest shots, then tipped it over as it tried to hobble off after the herd.

I cheated and went high-tech, using a Ruger #1 Tropical Rifle in .375 H&H fitted with an NEGC peep sight on the quarter-rib, and a CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby, the stock remodeled to resemble an English sporter, using the factory express sights. I took three loads for the .375, all 300-grain bullets that shot to the same place: Fail Safe, Nosler Partition and Speer Tungsten solid, in front of 75-H4350 for just under 2600 fps. For the .416 I took 400-grain Nosler Partitions and Barnes Super Solids, which also shot to the same place with 100 grains of Ramshot Magnum, reproducing factory velocity of about 2350.

These loads all worked very well--except I never fired a round of the .416 solids. My PH, a very experienced man named Russell Tarr, said to load 2 softs on top of 2 solids, so I did. I carried the .416 while one of the trackers carried the .375, just in case we ran across a big kudu or the shot on the buffalo came at longer range; I was a little more confident of precisely placing a shot at, say, 150 yards with the peep sight than the express sight.

As luck had it, we finally found "my" bull out on an open river margin, at the tail end of a herd of about 250-300. They were heading across the river into a national game reserve where they'd be off-limits, and we were set up under a couple of trees on the edge of the open ground. I chose the .375, because the shot could have been anywhere out to 150, but the old buffalo finally came by at about 75-80, along with a partner. The 300-grain Fail Safe took him through both lungs just behind the shoulder. Both bulls started to run after the herd, but my bull peeled off within a few strides, circling to our left toward the shoulder-high grass we'd just stalked through. Russ tried to break his hips with a couple .458 solids but just missed both times, one going forward into the paunch and the other just behind. By that time I'd grabbed the .416 and went for another chest shot as the bull ran, angling away, at about 120. Got the bead well forward on the shoulder and put a Partition just behind the diaphragm, angling through both lungs into the far shoulder.

You could see the bull stagger--and then he speeded up again! This didn't last long, however, before he started cross-stepping, and Russ said not to shoot again. The bull soon went down, belly toward us. We circled widely around behind him and I put the second Partitiom into the spine between the shoulders, for insurance. The bull was what they call a "kwataali" in Botswana, an old man with heavy boss and worn tips.

The tough animal with iron sights was the lechwe, as they live out on flooded flats, and a typical shot is around 300 yards. Both Scovill and I managed to pull off shots of 200+, which gave our PH's much more confidence in the project. After that no shot was over about 150, and some under 100. I did miss a nice impala at 200 or slightly over. It wasn't the fault of the .375. I had to make a crawling stalk through knee-high grass. Ran out of grass at 200 yards, and a nearby giraffe had put the impala on alert. I shot from sitting and simply pulled the bead slightly low. The ram jumped straight up in the air and for a second we thought I'd got him, but there was no thunk and he ran off unharmed. I got all the rest with one shot, mostly from standing using cross-sticks, though did give the kudu a second as he was about to tip over from the first shot.

We also had a videographer follow Scovill around, and a video will be made of the hunt. Watching him blaze away at the buffalo through puffs of white smoke is very interesting!

thanks for the detail, sound like a great hunt. how do we get to see the video?

The video won't be ready for a couple months, then we'll have to see how they decide to use it. They may sell it through the magazines, or it may just be used a promotional film at various trade shows. Don't know yet.

do you like the ruger #1s? I know you have a 257 #1. I have often thought about building a rifle on a #1, something like a 257 wsm with a 26" barrel. long barrel, but still smaller than a bolt action. I read somewhere that the firing pin was at a five degree angle to the cartridge face and that always bothered me for reasons I can not articulate. Have you heard of this.

My vote goes for the 257. I've always thought a good 6.5mm bullet would do great on this case. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
120gr at 3100+ sounds do-able, no?

As was said, just don't let it be .358! The .348-358 Imp in a bolt loaded to 54k CUP sounds like a nice brush buster. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I sure wish they'd have sucked it up and bought the tooling for a .550 boltface, and stuck with the CRF, though....

the 257 weatherby is listed at 3305 fps with a 120 partition so I would expect at least 3200 with a wsm in 257 (handloaded). what do you mean "stuck with the crf?) they make the crf action for the 270, 7mm and 300 wsm, I would expect them to do the same with the 257

would you expect the 257 wsm to be similar in performance to the weatherby?



This was meant to be sent to Mule Deer

I really like Ruger 1's, and always have a few in the safe. Aside from the .375 (which has become one of my favorite big game rifles), right now I have the semi-custom .257 Roberts (much like a #1A, with a light Wiseman barrel) and a !b in .22 Hornet.

Just got the Hornet this summer and did a little prairie dog shooting with it. Am getting very good groups (.75 or less) with 11.5 Ramshot Enforcer and the 40-grain Ballistic Tip. Velocity is right around 3100 from the 26" barrel, so it is essentially a 300-yard, recoilless varmint rifle. (I have had this load pressure-tested and its right alongside factory ammo--but doesn't work in a magazine rifle as the bullet has to be seated out too far.)

I believe I also read somewhere that the firing pin is at a slight angle, but that has never bothered any of the #1's I've owned. Some need a little pressure on the barrel via the forend hanger to shoot well, but many don't. My .257 has a pressure screw, but the Hornet and .375 shoot just fine without one. The trigger is easily turned into a crisp 2-3 pounder if you know how to work on triggers, or there are good aftermarket triggers at reasonable prices. The extractor/ejector system works great, even on rimless rounds. In fact I once accidentlaly loaded up the .257 with 5 extra grains of powder, and never had an extraction problem--though one primer dropped out!

They are a really fun gun to hunt with. The .375 in particular is a very fine thick-cover rifle. With peep sight it weigh only 8-1/4 pounds and is very short. Nothing better for sneaking around the riverbottoms or the lodgepole thickets, except maybe a double rifle of about the same dimensions.

Best of all, they can be had (or rechambered/rebarreled) in about any cartridge without feeding problems!

My recommendation in Winchester's "next WSM?" poll was not for another caliber on a WSM case.

I urged them to make the .22 "all that it can be" by loading it with 75-grain or heavier bullets with higher ballistic coefficients and therefore better long-range performance.

Mike wrote that down -- but being so long accustomed to being a lone voice in the wilderness, I don't really expect anything to come of that very practical recommendation.

Too many shooters and industry folks are terminally enamored of and obsessed with high muzzle-velocity figures, not nearly as interested in actual long-range performance. So whatever comes next, expect it to be loaded with bullets light enough to hoist muzzle velocities to impressive levels -- and to Hell with what'll deliver the best down-range velocities and energies.

Ken,

Thanks for the comments. Can you see a practical use for a 115 gr nosler partition (in 257 cal) with a mv of 3250 pfs? I just sold my 257 weatherby and like the cartridge very much but weatherby brass is expensive and the throats are long. As much as I like my 25-06, I would really like to see a 257 wsm. in my way of looking at things, the 257 cal is a much better deer caliber than the 243 cal. you can load to 75 gr for plinking and up to 120 for bigger stuff.

thanks for the comments and information re the #1

Ken--

Yeah, Kevin Howard and I talked a long time about new WSM's last year, and we batted the heavy-bullets .22's around quite a bit. I suspect the problem is that demand would be extremely limited. The only part of the country that seems to even be aware of the advantages of heavy bullets in .224 centerfires is Texas--hence the .223 WSSM.

John

I think we have enough WSM's for a while. A .338 WSM will not sell as that bore diameter is just not popular. Bore diameters around .25" are really best for nothing as the bullets are kind of small for game but big for safe varminting as richocets are not good.

A large capacity .224 will not do much that a 6mm will. As Elmer is quoted as asking "What's it good for"

That said I am all for something interesting in rifles.

nothin' personal but the 257 bore is good for lots of stuff. the 6mm is another story but I do see some virture with it. my 257 experience included 250-3000, 257 roberts, 257 improved, 25-06 and 257 weatherby and I find a 257 bullet in 100 or 115 grain bullets (partitions are my choice) to be very effective deer killers. I have taken four bucks in the last three years with a 115 partition out of a 25-06, all were one shot kills. where the 2587 beats the 6mm, hands down, is in bullet weight range, 75-120 grn.

When Winchester was polling firearms writers at the last two SHOT Shows, I voted for the .25. Nothing else makes sense.

The 6.5 would never sell well, no matter how much we love it. the .277", .284" and .308" are covered. The .338" and .358" would be cool, but sales would be exceedingly limited.

The .257 WSM would be a very useful cartridge and I suspect it would be a great commercial success.

I get a kick out of the guys who need a .300 MegaBlaster to slay antelope and deer. Apparently, they want to buy field success by using the current wonder cartridge that launches a huge bullet and burns a hundred grains of powder. They have no time, of course, for range practice, but their logic tells them that the MegaBlaster will magically knock over their game.

Smaller cartridges are just plain easier to shoot and they improve out ability to harvest game animals. Yeah, you can go too small, but the .257 WSM would be a hellish cartridge, no matter how you look at it.

Steve

How much velocity would be gained from a 257 WSM or 257 SARUM when compared to a 25-284? Assume that the guns are the same, only the chambered cartridge (and bolt face) are different.

Jeff

the 25-284 is a great cartridge but seems to have lost its commercial appeal, at least the parent 284. I am a fan so dont get me wrong, it may have been ahead of its time. I would expect a 150 fps gain over the 25-284 with the 257 wsm. I like the wsm concept in 257 as I really like the 257 weatherby, just sold mine, and expect similar results from the 257 wsm with less powder.

I find I shoot better with less recoil and have gravitated to the 25-06 as it kills fine, the 257 roberts is even better in that regard, especially handloaded with a 115 partition. interesting, at least to me, the last deer I shot with my 257 rob was a doe, about 40 yards, in fading light. shot her in the boiler room, using a 6x42 fixed leupold, and saw the hit, recalled it like it was a photograph. it was like shooting a pd with a 223. don't get me wrong, shot my best ga deer last year with a 7mm mag in a brown precision stock and never felt the recoil but love those easy shootin' 257s.

Steve....................you are being logical again........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FWIW: Having had a little experience on the marketing side of the sporting goods business, I'd suggest the following.....

"It doesn't matter if it works better, as long as we can sell it"

With that said, I think DZ is closer to the truth than any of the other opinions on this subject. 6.5's .338's and .358's have all been somewhere between laggards and disasters from a sales standpoint.

So why a 257 wsm?

Well, the most logical of the dual purpose rounds, (IMO the "Bob") is moribund. The 257 Roy is mostly limited in sales to Weatherby fans (not that many). That leaves the 25-06, and the .243 as the sole "successful" offerings in the category. While the 25-06 does fairly well in die sales, it lags in new rifle sales. Whether a slightly hotter 25 cal would work in the market is a question mark. There are some factors that grant it some appeal.........(A) it's new, (B) it's a "magnum" that gets you some sales right there, and (C) the category is really dominated by the .243 with the 25-06 licking up some scraps among savvy shooters.

So......is it really needed?......god no! Is it really better?.....realistically no. Can it sell?.....it just might.

JimF

my 257 weatherby was a model 70 with douglas barrel. it really was a nice rifle to shoot but may be too much of a good thing in term of bore to powder capacity. the 257 may be close to the same but a bit less powder than the weatherby in a short case may be just the trick. my 25-06 is my "go to" rifle and a 257 wsm would be just more of a good thing. I really think the 257-308 would be a great round but it seems to have little support. fills the gap between the 243 and 7mm-08 (the 260/6.5 moniker is just not going to attrack too much american hunter attention). the boys at hornaday told me they developed the 120 hp in 257 for elk. I am not sure of that and have not tried the bullet but would make for great potential for the 257wsm. I suspect winchester would load the 117 silver ballistic tip lubricated bullet in the 257 wsm. I would handload the 115 partition.

257Bob:

Spot on IMO. The most logical use for a 25 cal is as a "dual purpose" round. There are better "deer" cartridges and better "varmint" cartridges. The 25 souper would be a good compromise if you were looking at it from the perspective of "practical" (Although the "Bob" is already there, and it's not going anywhere in sales)

One of the reasons that the bigger 25's have not been that hot on the market is that even a 25-06 is a bit wearing for 100 prone shots on PD's. A WSM 25 would be harder on the shooter by a small amount, but it has that marketing appeal of the "Magnum" moniker.

Practical or not, the 257 WSM might just sell.

JimF

.257 Bob

How about the .25/.300 win?

Brass would be cheap and high quality....Use .300 WM bushing dies with the appropriate smaller bushings...

Mike

If the 257WSM was between the 25-06 and 257 wby, or equal to the 257 wby, I would be interested in it. If it is closer to the 257 Bob, forget it.

AD:

The 25 WSM would about split the difference between the two if we go by case capacity. It might (maybe) shade toward the Roy a bit, but not much. Depending upon which axe you are grinding, the difference between the Roy and the std. 25-06 is 200-300 fps or so.

Trying to wedge another cartridge in there does not make a lot of ballistic sense, but that has never stopped marketing departments before. Besides there is the benefit of the short action to ballyhoo about.

Actually though, I wonder if the average Wal-Mart or discount store shopper (who buys about 70% of the rifles these days) even knows that such a thing as a short action exists (on the .243 he just bought).

ya think this horse is dead yet?

JimF

Funny this should come up. Yesterday I was perusing one of my favorite Rifle emporiums and came across a odd sight.

1 Box of brand new RCBS dies in 338 WSM, now here's the funny part, they were A series dies, the same as 30-06 and 308's.

When I inquired about them I was told that RCBS was so sure that Winchester was going to release a 338 WSM they added it to their regular, not wildcat line.

Sounds like Winchester hosed em'.

Regards,

Bob

already have the 25-300 wm in the 257 weatherby mag. really, too much powder for bore size, in my opinion.

it should be similar to the 257 wm in performance, just less powder. same concept as the 300wsm compared to the 300 wm.

my angle is this, the 257 weatherby is only available in weatherby rifles. they are fine but no better than the other choices out there, but they do cost a whole lot more. don't get me wrong, I am happy to see an american firm like weatherby thrive, but they simply are not for everyone. a cartridge like the wsm, can be chambered for most bolt actions and will eventually find their way to walmart. so... the average nimrod can buy the 257wsm in the action of his choice, at several price points, access cartridges for less than $30 per box (the cheap wm stuff starts at $30) and you still have a cartridge with a good, fundamental design that uses powder efficiently and does not require a super long throat that may affect accuracy. simply makes sense to me, even if it only fills the gap between the 25-06 and 257 wm.

I believe the 338wsm will see the light of day, just makes too much sense. what in the hell were they thinking when they introduce the 223 and 243 wssm? talk about a narrow market. neat stuff but definetly a specialty cartridge. the 243 may have been able to handle re regular wsm case. talk about marketing blunders, what were the folks at remington smoking when the devised the new guide gun? the writers are trying to be polite but that thing is a mess.

This is from the wildcats posting forum

Quickload shows

257Scramjet @ 3700fps, w/100grTSX, 28"barrel, 89gr H870, 56kpsi
257Scramjet @ 3850fps, w/90grLRB, 28" barrel, 79gr 7828, 56kpsi

257WSM @ 3700fps, w/100grTSX, 28"barrel, 72gr big boy, 56kpsi
257WSM @ 3900fps, w/90grLRB, 28" barrel, 70gr MRP, 56kpsi

The WSM potential hasn't been tapped yet.
I'm building both a 257 SJ imp and a 243 WSM. Both 28".
The 243WSM will exceed the 257SJ 90gr performance(slightly) straight across the board. But with a 95gr VLD!
The difference is in the bottlenecking of the charge mass. You'll see.
And with ~3.5" shorter action.

Have fun. let us know.

The Lazzeroni website shows the ScramJet at 3750fps with the 100gr Nosler BUT the pressure is listed at 54,700 CUP which is quite a bit higher than the "estimated" pressure you showed.....probably pretty close to 67,000 psi which is OK in the Lazzeroni action using the heavier Lazzeroni brass.

I would not, however, try to sustain this type of pressure using the thinner factory brass in either a Remington or Winchester action and a 'loader won't be able to approach that kind of velocity unless he's really walking the edge on stressing the action.

As of now...

My vote would go for the 9.3 WSM this would come close to the 9.3x64 round. This would or could be a
seller in Europe and with good marketing maybe
North America. It wouldnt hurt in Africa either.
A real cosmos round.

9.3 Cosmos perhaps? Think 21st century here.

My next custom rifle will be in this cartridge.

I was at Nosler last week talking with some of the
Techs, they say that 23" is max for the WSM SAUM line of cartridges. Anything past that barrel length was of no
benifit. I like the short mags, a lot.

fwiw

I'm really pulling for the .338 WSM to become a factory

cartridge. I have one of my MRC SS S/A coming in a mag

boltface & the other is going to be a 25-284(my 1st wildcat)

If the .338 doesn't come to pass I'm thinking maybe a 350

Rem. Mag. might be an even better choice for my first

larger bore with the handgun bullets available for plinking

etc...decisions..decisions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Good Shooting, Bruce

I can picture Lazz numbers with max starting pressures(nosler into lands,high neck tension). His RCBS dies way oversize, and his brass is thick&hard. I believe the SAAMI max press for the 257SJ is 63.8Kpsi. 270WSM is 65Kpsi.
I do know that MY loads are correct, as posted. I've cal checked my software against many mentioned loads, from all kinds of discussions. 2years of careful comparison and tweaking. I don't see contradictions w/regard to similar bore/capacity cartridges very often.

By the way. I gotta ask.
How does brass thickness affect pressure handling?
And why wouldn't Win/Rem actions handle what lazz offerings can? Including Savage/Sako.

mikecr...I'd be curious to hear about your experience with Lazzeroni brass, dies and loading practices as they certainly don't jibe with mine using the components or my conversations with John Lazzeroni. With respect to the brass being thick & hard, I find it to be thick and relatively soft but the good thing is that with proper care (I anneal every 4th or 5th loading) I have brass that has been used more than a dozen times and the pockets are still tight, my concentricity is still very good and both of my rifles continue to give me more accuracy than I thought was possible using hunting bullets in full-power loads.

With respect to the action used by Lazzeroni (McMillan MCR-T) being stronger than either the Rem or Winchester, next time you handle one take some measurements and read Dan Lilja's article about bolt-thrust on his website. I think the Rem, Win & Sav actions can "handle" the pressure from factory Lazzeroni ammo (Lazzeroni started out using the Rem 700 actions) but I don't think the extra strength needed for a reasonable margin of error especially with handloads is there...again re-read the Lilja article.

I'm also a little confused about the 257SJ (tell me more aobut the cartridge)you mentioned having a SAAMI pressure standard which suprised me as even most proprietary lines of cartridges don't and I don't know of any "wildcats" that do......tell us how that came about.

One thing does scare me a little is your seemingly total belief in the predictive ability of QuikLoad and similar programs......what happens when the burn rate of a powder changes with respect to the figures listed in the program (see my experience with RL15)...what happens when a bullet manufacturer changes the ogive and/or bearing surfaces (happens all the time)....etc, etc....to say nothing at all about changes in neck-tension which isn't even a variable.

My experience working with QuikLoad, with the expert help of Mic McPherson, made it pretty clear to me that it didn't work very well with either my 9.53 Hellcat or my 7.82 Patriot.

Not trying to start a long running feud here about Lazzeroni cartridges, the differences between CUP & psi, SAAMI standards, QuikLoad or any other predictive loading programs, I'd just like to suggest a need for "moderation" in using absolutes when talking about loading especially as you near max pressures which isn't the same as max "safe" pressures.

I would consider my example loads as max. Of course anyone should work up carefully to them. Like you said, things change. Personally I subscribe to Ken howell's thinking, in that slower powders(or whatever fills the case)for <50kpsi is sufficient and greatly reduces throat wear. But there was a capacity comparison going on there w/WBY-vs-WSM, and I thought I'd throw in the 6.53SJ for further example. Just to try & proove that with relatively light bullets, further Capacity makes little difference. My contention is still that w/100gr and below bullets, The 257WSM isn't "in between" anyting.
I don't want to argue anymore about Lazzeroni(whom I have zero respect for).
I don't want to argue about the accuracy of my software.
If you like I can look into your Patriot load discrepancies.
In a year or so of researching every posted load, and then tweaking & testing for a few months, I could probably estimate your loads correctly. I charge 5cents/hr though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'd like to see a 35 or a 375 on that case.A friend of mine made up a 35 on the SAUM case and is getting just over 2800 FPS with a 250 grain Partition from a 23 inch barrel over the chronograph.

WB.

Is his insurance paid up?

JimF

That's 4350 ftlbs of muzzle energy which ain't gonna happen unless he's using magic fairy dust instead of smokless powder......a 225gr bullet around 2800 fps does, however, sound "reasonable" but stout.

He did this before the WSM and SAUM came out.He took 300 RUM cases and cut them back until it'd fit into the Remington 600 action.

He wrote some of this up on HuntAmerica about 2 years ago.His name is Brian Smith and if you run a search you ought to be able to find it in either the Handloading or Rifle board.

WB.

If I were Winchester and contemplating a .338 or larger bore on the WSM head size it would be to go to a 3.3" COL length. This would approximate the Dakota line.

What Steve Timm said...... now that makes sense!

I do not question the good folks at nosler but the "expansion chamber" for a 270 wsm is much smaller than the ec for the 300 wsm. for any magnum, a 24" barrel is a sensible min or why not just shoot a 308.