I've been refinishing a M70 featherweight stock for a friend. It was coming along well, but lately I'm having a bit of a problem. I apply a light coat of tru-oil spray,rub it in with my fingers and let it sit overnight. The next day I sand lightly with some 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper,wipe with tack cloth and do another coat. It looks great for a bit, but once it dries there are sull streaks all through it. You don't see them from a couple feet away bit if you look close there are definite thin,dull streaks, almost like it didn't get any oil. I've tried thinner/thicker coats, same results.

I started off with the liquid Tru-oil, but it seemed a bit thick and didn't dry nice and smooth,so I switched to the aerosol. I've done probably 8-10 coats so far,and I'd like to be done with this thing. Any idea's of what I'm doing wrong? I stripped and sanded it before starting, did one coat,let it dry and then wet sanded with the oil. Since then, I've jsut been doing as described. Any help would be most welcome.

xclaro,

I've never used the aerosal, but I always get the coat on very very thin, using my fingertip as the applicator. I use 0000 steel wool between coats and have always had great results. I've never wet sanded between coats.

Regards,

Tony

Just redid an old 1931 Iver Johnson .22. I thin tru oil with mineral spirits wipe it on let it sit for a few minutes and wipe it off. 2 coats a day depending on humidity. Usally done in a week. Let it sit for about a month then rub it out with rottenstone and paste wax it. Thats what works for me.

I don't like Tru-Oil aerosol. Bought one can years ago, finally threw it away.

Sometimes projects for friends turn into albatrosses. BTDT and try to avoid too many of those. Finishing a stock is a lot more work than people realize when they "commission" you to do a "job" for them.

You may need to let it dry very well, then cut it down with steel wool, maybe 00 or 000 until it's evenly dull without any streaks. You may need to take it down to the wood. That will leave your base coat intact. Get a new, fresh bottle of Tru-Oil and start hand rubbing additional coats, using 0000 steel wool between. Let each coat dry overnight.

If that doesn't work, you may have to strip it down and start over. I've done that a few times.

DF

Wish I could offer a suggestion, but never done the aerosal thing.

Just had a thought. The aerosol could be putting some air in the Tru-Oil, which may be causing the streaks. Just guessing. I don't think aerosol Tru-Oil is a good idea, they seem to keep making it, meaning someone is still buying it...

DF

I'm refinishing a Rem 700 stock with Tru-oil at this very moment and despite it being near 100F every day I find 24hrs isn't enough time to allow for it to cure properly between coats.

If I dont give it at least 48hrs to cure the previous coat will rub off with 0000 steel wool because its still too soft and hasn't cured properly.

I'd give it more time to cure before sanding.


With my stock I'm learning slowly but its coming along OK.




After about 10-12 coats of Tru-oil I'm nearly finished.

It could be just the grain of the wood, I have a French Walnut stock I did, and the winter growth area is real tight grianed/pored, as most wood, the summer growth more opened pored as most wood, so till you fill all the pores it will looked streaked, and the closed/tight pored wood will start to layer on top, get a glossy look, and the open pored will still be absorbing the finish and looking dull, now is the time that seperates the men from the ametures!! You have to take off the layered coats off of the closed pore areas. and still keep adding finish fo the open pored areas. So make sure the finish is real dry and no tacky or gummy feeling. Take some real mineral sperits on a 0000 steel wool pad and rub the stock down to get rid of the surplus on the tight grained areas with out cutting into the wood, less is better, and a real light touch to the rub down.. then wipe off any excess, and let dry for a day or 2, stock must feel dry, no tacky feeling. THEN through away the spray on and get some liquid Tru Oil, or real linseed oil, not boild linseed oil, mix 2 parts Linseed oil to 1 part mineral spirits, put a few drops in the palm of you hand and rub it in all over the stock, add mixture as needed to keep a wet look, less is better, let soak in for a few hours, then with a damp cheese cloth of mineral spirits give a light rub to get any excess off, so the stock does not feel gummy anywhere, let dry for a day or too, in a warm place helps or a sunny window. the key here is to let dry, can not rush this, repeat untill all the wood pores are fill, then one or two coast with a long try time in between. An oiled finished stock is a thing of beauty but also a thing of work and patients!!! Until you get the thin top coat all over it will looked streaked because of the pores not all being filled. When done with a gloss/semi gloss look, the hard/soft growth will have a different accent as the light is on them , I wish I could take a pic of my stocks to show that

The trouble with Tru-Oil is it's not Lin-Speed oil. --- Mel

xcarlo,
just had a memory recall, in my remodeling business a client had custom kitchen cabenits done by another shop then the one I used, when delivered the finish on them was cloudy, they did a sprayed finish put on when it was a high humidity!!! I talked to them and they said yes a spray finish will get cloudy with high humidity. Now that was not out of a can, but in a spray booth, with a spray gun of mixed poly and air. Ya they had to redo them. Just a thought here.

Bingo dingo! (Baaad, couldn't stop myself)

That was the trouble with my first attempt with Tru-Oil (in the bottle), not letting it dry long enough between applications. That and probably putting on too thick a coat. Actually it doesn't dry but polymerizes, short molecules react with oxygen in the air and link into long molecules. The surface reacts first and it takes time for oxygen to diffuse through the polymerized surface to the bottom of the coat. I probably compounded the problem by putting fresh "oil" over not fully polymerized coats which blocked oxygen from reacting with the under coats. The resulting finish wasn't fully hardened and was pulled out in places when steel wooled, leaving a streaky appearance. Boiled linseed and tung work that way too.

Unfortunately the cure is to remove the uncured finish, let whatever remains on the wood to set up completely, and begin again.

I never used the aerosol stuff but I did use the original Tru-oil to finish a walnut gun stock. I first used a paste filler and then used very thin coats of Tru-oil and let each coat dry 2 or 3 days before adding another coat. I think I used 10 coats in all and rubbed each coat with fine steel wool and then finished the job with paste wax.

Winter "GROWTH" area???

Lefty Kreh the fly fisherman once said "There is more BS in flyfishing then a Kansas feedlot." He obviously never met a wood finisher.

Three absolutes:
Steel wool is a bad idea.
Solvents in oil are a bad idea.
Filling pores with "mud" is a bad idea.

Oil is applied heavily, allowed to set for 10-15 minutes and rubbed absolutely DRY with a lint-free cloth. If oil is too thick for that it has started to polymerize and should be used for non-technical finish or trashed. It is not suitable for a stock, period. Attempting to "rub it in" or any such thing does nothing positive for the process. While it "works", it gets there the hard way.

Finishes that do not cure hard enough in less than 12 hours, even under high humidity conditions, should be tossed.

Aerosol oil is an absurdity, at best...

Coats applied as described should not be sanded or reduced between coats. Multiple applications may need sanding if done improperly, but generally not even once on the typical finish job.

And that typical oil finish will shrink over time and telegraph pores... No matter what you do short of an epoxy or CA filler.

Not even close...

Fresh Tru-Oil is plenty cured for the next coat after 12 hours under virtually all conditions. Old oil may not be ready after a month. Truly fresh oil is ready to recoat in less than an hour.

It is not the length of the molecule but rather how the molecule links that makes the difference. The oil molecules are essentially all the same before curing.

Properly applied, oil is in very thin coats. Apply heavily, set for 10-15 minutes, and wipe dry.

Any oil finish may be set aside for a couple months under warm and dry conditions to fully shrink and then be finished over. Linseed and tung are essentially the same.

I was wrong, molecules cross-link to make bigger molecules rather than longer ones. I can tell you with assurance that I had the same problems as the OP until I learned to apply thinner coats and have more patience between coats. And the Tru-Oil had not thickened in the bottle though there's no way to tell how many days transpire between when it was made and when you buy it. The wipe dry method is a pain in the butt because, in my experience and I tried it more than once, Tru-Oil starts to tack up before I can evenly apply it to the entire stock and then you have a mess. Works for me with BLO and pure tung though. Perhaps it's that different techniques work for different people as woodworkers with much more experience than I have observed.

Some believe steel wool is a bad idea, others don't. Pick your poison. Unless I'm using the finish as a filler, or screw up, I don't use either steel wool or sandpaper after de-whiskering. Same with solvents in base coats. I happen to agree with you there.

-----------
Get a little grouchy when I can't sleep, don't I.

It sounds to me that you are sanding through the very thin layers in places and that is causing the streaking.

Use steel 0000 steel wool instead of sanding between coats.

DF

If your application is getting too tacky to remove easily, you are trying to do too large of an area at a time. Nothing saying you have to do the whole stock at once.

If you are not wiping the oil dry after applying, in effect what you are doing is varnishing, with a darn poor varnish.

There is no substitute or shortcut for proper pore filling before starting the oiling schedule, ie: with epoxy or high quality varnish. Trying to achieve grain-fill with "oils" is a fools errand- it may well be accomplished but will indeed telegraph through with time, or wash out entirely the first time the stock receives a good soaking. Stock finishing is like life in general- you get out of it what you put in. It is a tedious time-consuming job that can't be rushed or shortcutted.

The oil is not dry/cured. I slather on tru oil and give it at least a week for it to dry than sand with 400, assuming the stock was properly sanded before you started. I avoid steel wool as I have founud that after time the fibers that have inbed them self in the finish tend to give the stock a dull look.

After you knock down the DRY oil it will look dull, re-apply sanding after every coat so the new oil has something to "grab on to". If you are going to checker the stock and dont sand bettween coats it can flake off.

I give em a final coat of poly when there a full fill.

Looks like this when done.........

IMHO, steel wool fibers will embed only if the Tru-Oil is green. Fibers in the finish doesn't seem to be an issue if the Tru-Oil is completely dry. Just comes off as a fine powder, removed with a clean rag, ready for the next coat.

What we're seeing, IMHO, is the diversity of stock finishing technique rather than a study of Tru-Oil as a product. Used right, it's pretty good stuff.

I use Pro-Oil from Brownells, a tung oil/urethane product, as the base coat and as the final coat, Tru-Oil as the filler. Pro-Oil gives a tougher finish than Tru-Oil, which dries faster and is easier to work with, filling the pores.

DF

I put it on then let it dry over night.
Then try to rub all of the coat you put on the day before with 0000 steel wool.
If the finish is dry the wool will not imbed into the finish.
Then wipe with a tack rag and blow with compressed air and repeat the coating process.It does seem the humidity does affect the complete drying time.
When you have the level of finish you desire for a satin finish lightly rub with 0000 wool again then wax.

Humidity can make a mess of a finish. My shop is climate controlled and that makes a big difference.

DF

I use Art's Gunstock Filler ( Walnut ) , then several coats of Pro-Custom Oil , thinned with Mineral spirits 4-1 . Then wet sand , dry and dewhisker . Put on 3 more coats , sand lightly again , dewhisker again if needed . Once she's whisker free I start rubbing in the oil , uncut . Brownells sells the same pro-Custom oil in an aresol . I've found that the satin spray put on as top coats , give a nice satin finish , that's tough to boot ! Spray right over the rubbed in as soon as you're done rubbing the last coat of it , go light too , might take 3 or 4 thin coats . Oxygen is the catylist for all finishes . As you use oil from the can , you introduce more and fresher oxygen into the bottle each time . If you keep the can topped off with glass marbles, very little air gets trapped in the can , thus extending shelf life . I hate grabbing something thats gone bad , I don't need it in a week , I need it now .

Armor All + Tru-OIL

Used this for a couple of stocks and done within a day without the wait...



http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331108&highlight=woodstock+finish

dingo: I'd agree with you on the drying time. Many poo poo oil finishes as being too porous etc. The stocks I've worked with take at least 15 well rubbed coats before they begin to shape up. I also seem to need about 5+ days between layers. If one goes at the finsh with sand paper and gets anything but dust, he has not waited long enough. We're in the days of instant gratification now, and folks want a fine and durable finish generated in a weekend.

It is too easy to make a sample board and prove a huge share of this thread dead wrong... Resisting physics and doing things guaranteed to be more difficult while yielding nothing is beyond foolish.

Filling pores with oil is a guaranteed eventual failure. If telegraphed pores constitutes failure...

Allowing oil to cure hard between coats is exactly wrong. The oil bonds best between layers if it has something to bond to chemically. If oil still feels wet after the rubdown it is too old. If you cannot get the whole stock coated before it is too tacky the oil is too old.

Most problems are created by old oil. Thinning old oil does not fix the problems and it does not increase penetration... Again, 15 minutes and a sample board is all it takes to prove that.

Sitka Deer,
where you live all wood is winter growth!!!!

My comments:

Do NOT use aerosol.
"Multiple thin coats" is a waste of time and work. Apply liberally.
If it takes more than 4 or 5 coats to finish the stock, your not using enough.
Rub it in with clean bare hands until tacky and hands start to stick to the surface.
Let it dry for at least a week or more before proceeding. It's gotta be dry.
Rub lightly with 0000 steel wool before applying another coat.
The last coat should be thinner than previous coats.
Don't rub the final coat with steel wool unless you want a dull finish.

Poly over Tru-Oil? Ee-gads! What a terrible idea.

Here's my 700 in tru-oil

I've only used the rub-on, not the spray-on.

I've found the secret is to use so many coats that you loose track of how many times you did it - but you do it with so little oil rubbed on each time - that you'd almost swear you are wasting your time. One drop or two rubbed between the palms is close to perfect. Done this way - there's no need to sand between coats. In the end - of course - when done this way, it's not wasted time - it's worth it. Trying to rush the process with heavy coats only ruins the job.

That's how I did this one.

On these same lines, I asked the Shiloh company about their stocks. They have a satin like and very durable finish that appears to be in the wood as opposed the thicker and higher gloss finishes one can get with oils or modern compounds. They use a wet sanded tung oil method that I plan on trying with my next project. Their higher quality woods though are quite dense and show little in the way of pores. I always find this an interesting subject.

BC: an interesting piece there, and it looks good. When I get down to my final layers, 2 or 3 drops of oil are all that is needed to coat the entire stock. Such layers are probably getting down to near micron thickness after drying. No wonder it's a slow process.

My thoughts on Tru-Oil:

"Many thin coats" is a waste of time. Should take no more than 4 or 5.
Rub each coat in with clean bare hands until tacky.
Let dry at least 3 days before proceeding, longer is better. Gotta be dry.
Rub lightly with OOOO steel wool when dry.
After last coat, don't steel wool for glossy finish, do steel wool for subdued finish.

Poly over Tru-Oil? Ee-gad! What a terrible idea!

I was taught to use Tru-oil in gunsmithing school, never liked the stuff. I prefer LinSpeed or Pro Custom Oil, don't use steelwool rather the sandpaper that looks like window screen. The spaces in that type of sandpaper do not get clogged with finish like regular sandpaper. 400 grit paper produces a nice satin finish 600 will give you a little more sheen. After I am satisfied with the finish, I set it aside for a week then wax with Renaissance wax and polish with a new Microfiber cloth. LinSpeed produces a finish very close to original Pre 64 Winchester finish.

I guess during the past 4 decades, I have tried about everything. Never did care for Tru Oil as I found it difficult to get a finish I wanted. Finally settled on Min Wax rubbing Poly and Flecto rubbing Poly. Nice thing about it is two coats can be applied per day and then start sanding between coats As soon as the pores are full, then the finish is done. Polish with 1000 grit using the poly as a lube. Nice finish that hardens the wood and is very durable with little effort.

xxclaro,

Confused yet?

Can't put my hands on it at the moment but some years ago I read an article on stock finishing by a shop teacher. Along the way he mentioned that over the years he observed that a finishing technique that gave excellent results for one student could give abysmal results for another. He put it down to some hidden variation in personal technique. I've borne that in mind when reading about people having good results with vastly different techniques and materials. And I do practice pieces when trying something new to see if it works for me.

The bottom line: there is no bottom line.

Everyone has different experiences with an assortment of finishes. It's hard to "unconvince" someone who is already convinced. That's true for me.

When someone asks for help, there may be a window, otherwise, what you see is what you get. Most arrive through trial and error. As long as it's working for that person, more power to his method(s). You happy with it, I'm happy for you...

DF

Look at these item numbers from Brownells.
209-101-014 and 209-100-014
Gun Savr Custom Oil Gunstock Finish.
I was having your problems on a stock a few years back now knowing I did not let the tru oil dry enough.

I had to many coats of tru oil on it to count.
I tried the stuff I mention above after letting the tru oil dry for a week and it came out great.

The good thing about all of the coats of tru oil is that the grain was filled up.

The spray was piece of cake to use as I remember

Another alternative is Deft, a lacquer spray can finish available at paint and big box stores.

I've used it on poor quality wood that I didn't want to put a lot of work into. One stock had sap wood and poor grain. I stained it with Teak, oil based stain to darken it and than applied several coats of Deft. Many of the old guns had factory lacquer finishes. It's not as tough a finish but is quick, easy and wears pretty well.

DF

Well, I certainly have some thigs to try now, don't I!? Thanks everyone, I will try some of the things suggested,see what happens. I think the humidity is ok, winter in Alberta after all. However, the room is rather cold,so maybe it's not dryong prperly in there. I'll switch back to teh bottles oil, go from there.

With Tru-oil the secret (I have found) is to rub it into the woodwork with your fingers until it gets tacky. Then you must let it dry properly - I mean PROPERLY!!! Once dried, I ise 0000 steel wool (very lightly) and repeat. Five or six coats is plenty for me.

When opening a fresh bottle of Tru oil , you will see its consistency - nice and runny. As this evaporates over time, you may need to cut it with turpentine to make it a bit more fluid again.

Gus