Why do otherwise sensible and nitpicky rifle loonies keep using the term "caliber" when referring to a chambering? It's particularly incongruent behaviour amongst folks who often engage in lengthy and passionate debates about some pretty obscure, esoteric topics?
Really wanna get flustered with wording? Try to properly ask someone behind a gun counter what cartridge a particular rifle is chambered for...... (palm to forehead)
Why do otherwise sensible and nitpicky rifle loonies keep using the term "caliber" when referring to a chambering? It's particularly incongruent behaviour amongst folks who often engage in lengthy and passionate debates about some pretty obscure, esoteric topics?
Odd...
Probably for the same reason they say horns when refering to antlers or pistol when refering to revolvers.
Really wanna get flustered with wording? Try to properly ask someone behind a gun counter what cartridge a particular rifle is chambered for...... (palm to forehead)
I did that the other day with a Marlin with pretty good looking wood. He told me it was a Marlin. I said "I know that. What is it chambered for?" He looked at the tag and said "308 Winchester." I said "OK. It's a 308 MX. Please don't tell anyone else it's a 308 Win. There's a huge difference."
Almost every time I visit the local range to test loads someone will come up to me and ask me "what caliber are you shooting".
I'll tell them 26 caliber or 28 caliber. "Oh? I've never heard of that one before". Then they walk on not wanting to appear that they don't have a clue, because they really don't.
Why do otherwise sensible and nitpicky rifle loonies keep using the term "caliber" when referring to a chambering? It's particularly incongruent behaviour amongst folks who often engage in lengthy and passionate debates about some pretty obscure, esoteric topics?
Odd...
Gotta say it kinda bugs me too.
Maybe it's just a more "folksy" way to say cartridge... sort of like calling antlers, "horns."
I think we should collectively work on the differences between: they're, their, and there before we tackle rifle nomenclature.
Travis
Good luck with that endeavor and Uncle Rico (aka logcutter). Guess you won't be tackling rifle nomenclature 'til your next life. He could pay it forward though by teaching the difference between clip and magazine. Only because he's served...
Hmm. I work with words, and have learned some stuff about it over the years.
One of the basics is that all modern languages are living things. They change all the time, the reason dictionaries change--because dictionaries aren't derived from a panel of experts, but by "common usage." If a lot of people say "caliber" for "cartridge," then that's common usage. Someday soon caliber will probably be dictionary-listed as a synonym for cartridge.
By the way, neither my Webster's Unabridged or my compact copy of the Oxford English Dictionary make any differentiation between "revolver" and "pistol," something many shooters get nit-picky about.
One of the basics is that all modern languages are living things. They change all the time, the reason dictionaries change--because dictionaries aren't derived from a panel of experts, but by "common usage."
To what extent does that carry? Will their, there, and they're someday be listed as synonyms because they're (or is it their, or there?) commonly misused?
By a barrel in 7x64Brenneke (caliber? cartridge? i don't know but it obsoleted the 7x57)and you'll get a good hunting rig for a real rifle loony in the US of A... Dom
Why do otherwise sensible and nitpicky rifle loonies keep using the term "caliber" when referring to a chambering? It's particularly incongruent behaviour amongst folks who often engage in lengthy and passionate debates about some pretty obscure, esoteric topics?
Odd...
Gotta say it kinda bugs me too.
Maybe it's just a more "folksy" way to say cartridge... sort of like calling antlers, "horns."
cal�i�ber (kl-br) n. 1. Abbr. cal. a. The diameter of the inside of a round cylinder, such as a tube. b. The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usually shown in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and expressed in writing or print in terms of a decimal fraction: .45 caliber. c. The diameter of a large projectile, such as an artillery shell, measured in millimeters or in inches.
Yup, years back I spent a couple of summers doing angler surveys at lakes. The boat launch rodeo was a highlight. I suspect many divorce proceedings have been initated at a boat launch.
Have seen towing vehicles very nearly completely submerged. Once saw an old guy at a launch ramp trying to mount the outboard motor to the transom; it slipped off and he grabbed the oily rope that was tied to it but, no matter how much he squeezed, the rope continued to slip through his fingers until it just disappeared!
Hear in WI, Memorial day weekend kicks of the boating seeson. I spend at least one day of it at the ramp. Being a boater myself, and never left the plug out, straps on, ect, because I undo everything and then make a 360 around the boat and truck rechecking, befour backing down the ramp. The won I luv is the first tyme out for the seeson, get it started, back off the ramp, go about 20 yards, it dyes, crank a bit, then battery dyes, then they figure out gas line is not open/vent, never charged up the battery from all winter storage. Then have to padle back and wate for an open spot at the peer.
I sometimes wonder where some of the folks on here went to school.
I, myself, went to some pretty podunk schools in my time. Yet in spite of that, I successfully managed to gradigiate (sp) from High School. I, also learned: Proper punctuation, reasonable grammar, and Bismillah; I EVEN learned to spell...
And all this with an I.Q. about 4 points above the average eggplant...
Also, I have heard of the "Dumbing Down" of America... Not only that, I have seen literal proof...
Grass Hopper, I went to a Catholic grade school with nuns, it made me a better person, BUT i never have developed great spelling, and here my ISpell does not work, or it is this damn Vista. I totally agree with the dumbming down, Here in Milwaukee 50 of the kids do not graduate from HS, and most of the ones that do are at about a 10th grade level compared to years back. Demand less, you get less!!! Anyway was reading my 49 Edition Lyman reloading manual, they use caliber in place of cartridge in the area of talking about different primers affecting PSI and MV in "different Calibers", which in fact they would/could, but I think they meant cartridges.
Nothing has changed for the better since the 1940s. I'm talkin' 'bout Nosler Partitions and bolt action 30-06s. Something 30 calibre chambered in something steel. Tr�s tubular.
It's depressing, ya know! Hell, I'd throw myself off a bridge, but they haven't changed them since the 1500s. Besides, it's the same old water, drank by, bathed in or peeeeeed in by countless long dead humans. Some famous, others not.
It's disgusting to think that I have put tapileen to my lips that was shat upon by a water buffalo in Africa. Who wants anything to do with Africa? Oh wait, my wife's from there. Nevermind.
30-06s or 7.62 x 63mm: In the end, they're all the same. They are identical to a plunge router, only they are powered with propellant, not 'lectricity and the bullets aren't called bits. But both have points and come off. Granted, routers are cheaper than rifles, but they are more difficult to use properly and aren't much good in a bar fight (unless you've got an extension cord). Come to think of it, I never used a router in any fights when I was posted to Europe.
But anyway, back to the rifles. They aren't like your lips or baby beef liver. They don't adapt to, or wrap around things. Rifles have to be chambered. Like a French upstairs maid or something...
A Muzzle Break is what happens when you are hunting and you fall down and the muzzle goes into the mud. Later that same day, a large buck steps out and you take a shot and...
Think of it, you fail a few times and get to hang around the cute young girls longer. A lot of them will think you're hot because you're an "older" guy. Of course, there's that rebel thing going for you too! It's like this: You failed. You bucked the system. You stuck it to the man! In no time, you'll be screaming, "Get me a leather jacket!!"
But there are a couple of things to keep in mind. Times change. You will get older and may not be attracted to many of the young teenies anymore. Now's the time to move on to a hot looking teacher! The good looking ones will want you because they are not much older than you. There's also the excitement of robbing the cradle. Hey man, you're lookin' good! They're less intimidating too because you've been around the block!
After eight or nine years of high school, you will have learned what many credentialed folk discovered early in their teaching careers - 'tis better to remain ensconced within the walls of Monty Hall High. Out in the real world, life can be tough!
Ah-ha! Teachers get long summer breaks, professional development days and all the holidaze off! They earn tenure and are respected by others. They easily qualify for mortgages and car loans too.
But what's that you say? You're not bright enough to earn a degree? No worries! Date an older teacher. Look for one that's a little past her prime. Make her feel young again! She'll put you in touch with the right folks and soon you'll be working as the school custodian!
I know what you're thinking, but hear me out. You'll still get those long summer breaks, professional development days and all the holidaze off too, but without all the studying, exams, etc. And you'll earn tenure. Remember, you're a union man now!
Yes, a quick roll in the hay with a forty or fifty year old English teacher can pay off big time. It really is an investment in education and your future. And just think, there are no student loans to pay back!
Just mull it over for a while and you'll see the light. That's the calibre of man they're looking for!
Think of it, you fail a few times and get to hang around the cute young girls longer. A lot of them will think you're hot because you're an "older" guy. Of course, there's that rebel thing going for you too! It's like this: You failed. You bucked the system. You stuck it to the man! In no time, you'll be screaming, "Get me a leather jacket!!"
Yes, a quick roll in the hay with a forty or fifty year old English teacher can pay off big time. It really is an investment in education and your future. And just think, there are no student loans to pay back!
Here is a quote from an older WW Super ammo box, happens to be 300H&H but all were the same. The older "white box" ammo. "WARNING Use only in Winchester and other standard arms in good condition designed and chambered by gun manufacturer for this caliber ammunition and so marked on the gun barrel."
So what is correct, chamber or caliber............. Thinking about this I guess that perhaps using the same caliber ammo would cause less problems than the wrong caliber.. Or maybe not.
Fish Head, I was in relations with 2 different teachers, both great rolls and BR aggressive, both kinda libs, BUT both controllers!! They forget to leave the "I am the teacher, you are the student" attitude at school. Very appreciative, not a finacial load, actually they bought me very nice things, but in hind site with there attitudes, most guys walked within 6 months, I did!
Hmm. I work with words, and have learned some stuff about it over the years.
If a lot of people say "caliber" for "cartridge," then that's common usage. Someday soon caliber will probably be dictionary-listed as a synonym for cartridge.
Best description & explaination...as usual.
In the South, caliber & cartridge are used interchangeably and I hear caliber more often than cartridge.
Well, I don't have many conversations with you folks, but it is enjoyable. I could liken it to heading down a winding forest road with lots of interesting things to stop and ponder and plenty of little side trails. For the most part the trails run parallel and eventually reconnect with the main route, but not always and can sure take you through some strange country even if you don't get lost.
Mule Deer, I totally get the whole language evolution thing, but this isn't the same a forming a new word like "emoticon" or "guesstimate", this is erroneous improper terminology tolerated.
By the way, my vote for best Should Be A New Word goes to "ignoranus", referring to someone who is simultaneously both stupid and an a$$hole.
Ooh, look...another trail...is a shotgun still a shotgun if it has a rifled barrel?
I'm not that worried about it. In science, a theory has a very narrow definition, being a well-tested and generally accepted explanation of how something works. An educated guess in science is an hypothesis (should hypothesis be preceded by "an" or "a"?; to become a theory it must undergo, and be supported by, rigorous testing by many scientists.
But, when someone says "I have a theory about that" I don't get in a tither. Use the terminology myself rather loosely sometimes. Now back to my hay bailer. I will try not to be an ignoranus.
It's 308 Winchester, not .308 Winchester; 45 Colt, not .45 Colt or Long Colt; 30-06, not .30-06; 270 Winchester, not .270 Winchester; 45-70, not .45-70 or .45/70; and so on.
The leading decimal point does not belong in cartridge designations.
It's 308 Winchester, not .308 Winchester; 45 Colt, not .45 Colt or Long Colt; 30-06, not .30-06; 270 Winchester, not .270 Winchester; 45-70, not .45-70 or .45/70; and so on.
The leading decimal point does not belong in cartridge designations.
Well, I just had to check... it seems the jury is out on this one, as every box of Weatherby ammo that I have does indeed have the caliber preceded by a decimal point. And to further confuse the situation, when I look at the stacks of boxes of UMC brass awaiting the reloading press, exactly HALF are marked 40 S&W, and the other half... you guessed it: .40 S&W. So since I've always used the decimal completely without thought, I'm in decent company if I'm wrong.
As P. T. Barnum may have said to his Ringmaster after watching the Human Cannonball make another successful flight across the arena into a net, "Where do we find men of such caliber?"
One of the basics is that all modern languages are living things. They change all the time, the reason dictionaries change--because dictionaries aren't derived from a panel of experts, but by "common usage." If a lot of people say "caliber" for "cartridge," then that's common usage. Someday soon caliber will probably be dictionary-listed as a synonym for cartridge.
I can't imagine Ken Howell or any other gun writer writing a book called
"Designing and Forming Custom Calibers" or "Calibers of the World"
I'm not talking about book titles, I'm talking about everyday conversation, much like we use on Campfire posts.
When people start getting pedantic about caliber and cartridge in conversation, I'm also reminded of people who have to correct everybody who says "antelope," pointing out they're pronghorns. Who cares, as along as the meaning is clear?
I'm not talking about book titles, I'm talking about everyday conversation, much like we use on Campfire posts.
When people start getting pedantic about caliber and cartridge in conversation, I'm also reminded of people who have to correct everybody who says "antelope," pointing out they're pronghorns. Who cares, as along as the meaning is clear?
Hey, I've shot Canadian geese before. I did it in Idaho.
I'm not talking about book titles, I'm talking about everyday conversation, much like we use on Campfire posts.
When people start getting pedantic about caliber and cartridge in conversation, I'm also reminded of people who have to correct everybody who says "antelope," pointing out they're pronghorns. Who cares, as along as the meaning is clear?
Hey, I've shot Canadian geese before. I did it in Idaho.
Hmm. I work with words, and have learned some stuff about it over the years.
One of the basics is that all modern languages are living things. They change all the time, the reason dictionaries change--because dictionaries aren't derived from a panel of experts, but by "common usage." If a lot of people say "caliber" for "cartridge," then that's common usage. Someday soon caliber will probably be dictionary-listed as a synonym for cartridge.
By the way, neither my Webster's Unabridged or my compact copy of the Oxford English Dictionary make any differentiation between "revolver" and "pistol," something many shooters get nit-picky about.
In cowboy action circles, the discussion is about "pistols", one hardly ever hears the term, "revolver". The reasoning, handguns were all "pistols" until autoloaders came into being, at which time the distinction between "pistols" and "revolvers" evolved. The time frame of CAS is pre-autoloader, or before the introduction of 1911 Colt.
cal�i�ber (kl-br) n. 1. Abbr. cal. a. The diameter of the inside of a round cylinder, such as a tube. b. The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usually shown in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and expressed in writing or print in terms of a decimal fraction: .45 caliber. c. The diameter of a large projectile, such as an artillery shell, measured in millimeters or in inches.
Yes, Fish, You and Wind Drift are correct. However in my 62 yrs I've never heard anyone ask, "What chambering is your rifle chambered for?" OR even "What cartridge is your rifle chambered in/for?"
I'm also PRETTY SURE I've never read it in any book or magazine. I'd prabably be more accurate to say, I DON'T REMEMBER reading it anywhere, EVEN HERE.
IMHO, "what caliber is your rifle?" has become common usage.
When I was in school THRU high school the teachers fussed and said, "Ain't is NOT a word!!!" Well today Ain't is in the dictionary.
Caliber certainly designates the diameter of a bore or bullet. We have applied it to the cartridge or chamber of guns.
