Hello All,

It looks like my search is over.

I've located a Vintage Cogswell & Harrison in 404 Jeffery. I found an identical rifle posted on the Africahunting Forun that was said to be a Rhodesian Game Department rifle. Its serial number is 3000 higher than this one. With the serial number being so close, I'm thinking this one might also have been used by the Wardens.

One question that I would have is: Since the bottom metal is aluminum on both rifles, what would the date be when Cogswell & Harrison built these guns?

A fellow with a similar rifle in 318WR said his was built "between the Wars" but I'm not sure. I'm guessing they were built after WWII, but have no hard evidence other than I don't think Aluminum was used for bottom metal before then. But then again, maybe it was. Does anyone know for sure, or have an opinion as to when this rifle was made?

Here are some pics of the rifle:

Here are a few more pictures carried over from the previous post.

Post over on Accurate Reloading Forums/

Pretty cool

Looks like a modified Enfield action.

If it could just talk...

Nice find.

DF

Yeah, it is an Enfield action, and their have one of the best safeties ever designed. I prefer them to the Model 70 type, because they do the same things but with less movement, and tucked down out of the way.

Very nice indeed!

dons70

Congratulations!

SWEET

Now THAT'S pretty neat. No tellin' how many little hidden features you'll find when you start going over it.

What find! Congratulations! Let us know how it shoots.

What is the large circle outline on the rear bridge? powdr

Hello powdr,

Thanks for the reply.

There was an oval recess at the rear of the Military P-17 action about 1/8" deep. It is typically called a "well". In transforming the P-17 Military action into a Commercial rifle, Cogswell & Harrison machined this recess into a circle, and puugged it. Same for the small screw hole forward of it that has also been plugged.

Very Cool Old Rifle.

Congrats,I'm thinking a safari should be in your near future!

Hello dvdegeorge.

Thanks for the reply.

Now if only I can find out when it was made, and some History to go with it.

Never seen an Enfield action with a long extractor. Anyway, SWEET FIND!

Beautiful rifle! Congrats. As the others have said, wished it could talk.

You must be thinking Lee Enfield.

The P17 Enfield is a different action.

Hello carbon12

Thanks for the reply.

M1917 - Comercial, sporterized by C&H.

Ticklish question...

If it was mine, and I wanted to hunt with it, I'd need a QD scope.

How big a sin, drilling and tapping for scope? In its current condition, does it have substantial collector value un-tapped or is it just a shooter?

DF

Hello Dirtfarmer,

Thanks for the reply.

It would be a "BIG SIN" to drill and tap this rifle. It is a true collector from a Vintage time of Dangerous Game Hunting.
Working range for such rifles was usually under 50 yds and sometimes at distances measured in feet.

I've got dozens of other rifles that have scopes.

Is the rear sight island soldered or screwed on the C&H?. If it is screwed on, a Weaver base could be adapted to the barrel contour and hole spacing. A micro red dot then could be mounted on the single base. The arrangement would allow iron sight challenged shooters to shoot the C&H and not permanently mess with the collectibility.

Hello carbon12

Thanks for the reply.

Its soldered on. And I'm not "iron sight challenged" with the practicle range of the 404 Jeffery.

Great gun.

DF

Hello Dirtfarmer,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, now on to finding some History about it.

Provenance and history can sometimes get interesting.

Here's a link to an early, pre-war Superposed I traded for, just liked the looks, not knowing anything about it.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124719

This thread went on for years, NOT a quick read...

DF

Duh! sorry! and I even have a nice one in my safe! I'm just an Anglophile

THIS!!!^^^^^^ Thanks!!!!

Hello kaywoodie,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think?

Hello All,

Well, Here's an update on my rifle.

Detail examination shows that this rifle was originally a P-14 Eddystone. What I find most interesting is the "thumb cut" in the left receiver wall.

It serves no purpose other than cosmetic to replicate the "look" of a 98 Mauser action. Or, the only other explaination would be that the thumb-cut it was intended to add finger clearance to aid in pushing the large cartridges down into the magazine box from above. I know for sure that it could not have been for loading from a stripper clip because if you place a cartridge into the existing stripper clip slot that is cut into the top of the rear receiver ring, the cartridge is far too long. The front of the cartridge hangs over the front receiver ring by about 1/2". In order to load the cartridges into the magazine box, you have to tuck them back "under" rear receiver ring, and push them into the box.

While researching C&H bolt action rifles on the Internet, I have found several pictures of identical rifles in 404 caliber, but none of them had the thumb cut. However, a C&H catalog picture of the rifle from the 1950's that I found, does show his feature, so it was not an after market alteration. (see below) You can see it if you look closely. The thumb cut is there in the receiver, but just as with my rifle, the wood of the stock is not cut away around it.

I was told that this rifle was shipped to an African Game Deptment, and I'm still looking for more information about this.

Think the P-14 was chambered for the .303 British during WWI. While the 1917 Enfield was chambered for the .30/06.

That's a beautiful old rifle and an awesome cartridge.
I have a BSA P14 in 404 Jeffery built by my late Brother 10 years ago for my 60th.
Originally bought as a 303 sporter in auction for $ 10 it took nearly three years for Brother to make the stock and do all the metalwork.
I wish that I had the ability to post pictures here because it is a really nice piece, albeit a bit heavy..

The thumb cut out will be for ease and speed of loading. A feature for a dangerous game rifle

Buckstick, That rifle caught my attention at the SCI convention a couple of years ago and I took a number of photographs of it. A number of rifle makers cut thumb slots in DG rifles and I did the same on my 458 MKX Mauser as it helps speed things up when you need to cram rounds down rapidly.

Hello 458Win,

Thanks for the reply.

Do you still have any ofthe pictures? I would enjoy seeing them. Do you recall what the asking price was back then?

Hello Bud Gills

Thanks for the reply.

Below, I have posted the pictures of your BSA rifle for you.

Many Thanks Buckstix, I appreciate your doing that for me....

Was the bolt modified to cock on open?

Hello Huntz,

Thanks for the reply.

No, the bolt was left "cock-on-close". I was told that many PH's liked the P-14's left that way because if you kept the rifle on your shoulder while working the bolt to chamber another round, it was much easier to "push" the bolt forward against the spring tension. Pushing "palm-forward" with the outstretched arm was a more natural action.

However, on rilfes modified to "cock-on-open" you would have your hand "palm-up" on the outstretched arm in an awkward lifting position trying to lift-up against the spring tension.

I have other P-14's modified to "cock-on-open" and I've tried it both ways. I found it true that it is much faster and easier to rapidly aim and work the action while keeping the rifle against your shoulder.

I suppose that this varient of a working rifle that found its way into the hands of Game Department shooters, was used for fast shooting when culling big game animals.

buckstix -

That's interesting. After so many yrs and being so used to cock on open, I would have thot it better than cock on close.

Learn sumpin knew everyday. <G>


Jerry

I've had a P-14 and two p-17's . I converted two to cock on open. I feel that I made a mistake doing so and would not do it again. Others wanted those actions badly and I figured I'd start over on another.

As I recall there was supposedly another advantage, a better trigger perhaps? It was a few years ago and I honestly don't remember. But I believe the 14 and 17 are best left as is.

looks like a P-14 action form the action/safety.

hello Bugger,

Thanks for the reply.

The trigger pull is actually very good. Its the standard 2-stage trigger at about 4 pounds. Perfect for a Dangerous Game rifle.





Hello djs.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, an Eddystone, based on markings found on the action.

Hello dgs,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, its built on a P-14 action. I wrote C&H and obtained a Factory Letter on the rifle.

here is how it looked on the table at SCI





I kept the cock on closing feature on my 9.3x62 Enfield for the same reasons. It is reliable and when operated fast from the shoulder as intended one never notices the difference.

I find cock on opening slightly more difficult to work fast from the shoulder. When opening a cock on opening setup, you are fighting to keep the rifle from turning in your hands whereas cock on closing you don't have that and are pushing toward the target when closing, which is more natural to me. Never have understood why people convert Enfields to cock on opening.

Hello DesertMuleDeer,

Thanks for the reply.

I feel the same way, and for the reasons you mention, I have converted several of my hunting rifles back to cock-on-close.