Very interested lately in this chambering. I recall reading an article a few years back (I think possibly by Dave Petzal) about this being the perfect whitetail cartridge. Is it really any "better" than a .308 for deer?
I also wonder where it ranks in effectiveness compared to any of the other 308 based offerings. Or are they all pretty much the same?

Is there some "magic" in putting a 7mm bullet on a 308 case?

Please educate me on this little wonder round, I'd love to hear some real world experiences ( good or bad ) and maybe some pics of your rifles and game taken with the 7mm-08.

Thanks guys!

There is magic in anything in a 308 case but the 7-08 is not any better on deer than a 308.

Just bought one so I am open to anyone justifying my purchase

.308, and .358 make a bigger Entry wound.

7mm-08 and .260 penetrate well, and kick a little less.

There's really no reason to chose the 7-08 over the 308 for whitetail, other than its 140 gr bullet will kick slightly less, and penetrate more than the 150 gr bullet from the 308 at the same velocity. To get a similar SD/BC in a 30 cal, you really need to jump up to a 165 grainer, and more recoil. But any 150 grain bullet from a 308 will give you all the penetration you can use on any whitetail that walks.

The truth is, neither kick much, and a deer won't know if it was killed with the "ideal" whitetail cartridge circa 1980, or the ideal whitetail cartridge circa 1952.

I like them both, but over the years I've found the 308 a little more eager to please handloading. I could be happy with either for all my elk hunting here in MT, and have taken good sized bulls with each. I'm pretty sure whitetail are easier to kill

LOL, great post!

I have and regularly use both a 7mm-08 and a .30-06. Have taken several whitetails and hogs with both. The 7mm-08 is pleasant to shoot and in my experience, all the gun you need for deer and hogs. I've never hunted one, but I am told by many that they also use 7mm-08s for elk, but that seems a bit on the light side to me. YMMV. A .308 is a little bit of a step up from a 7mm-08, but not a big step. IMHO, if you think you might want something big enough for deer, hogs, and elk, consider a .30-06 as you can get heavier loads than with a .308 if you need it. If I was wanting something no bigger than for deer and hogs, I would lean towards the 7mm-08. 7mm-08 is also great for coyotes. Having said that you will not go wrong with the .308, either. I am a firm believer in "use enough gun".

I don't know if this will help or not mjbgalt, but I shot a 7mag almost exclusively for 3 decades. Since I've gotten older I've enjoyed shooting the 7-08 much more, especially the mild recoil. I've manged to take at least 100 hogs, 30 deer or so, and another 25-30 aoudad sheep with the 140 accubond, 140 partition, and 120 ballistic tip.

It is a very effective killer, and easy to load for.

The 7mm-08 is much like the 7x57, only a little shorter and a little faster, so what's not to like?

EDIT: The Hornady American Whitetail and Winchester/Olin Deer Season XP both shoot good groups in my Marlin XS7.

EDIT2: If there is a down-side to the 7mm-08 when compared to the 308 it is that factory ammo isn't as common in rural areas, at least those rural areas that I frequent, and it is usually a little more expensive. Both "problems" can be avoided through proper prior planning.

The Fire is a great place for just about any gun purchase justification...

I just got a 700, 7-08, too. Got it in a trade, a Bobby Hart build that I put in a Hunters Edge. Haven't had time to work up loads. Previous owner said it was a shooter. I just shot it enough to sight it in, need time to work up loads. Already had a Timney 510.

DF

Sweet rig DF. Can't wait to see what your loads turn out to be. I'm betting it won't be too tough.

Henry, yours is pretty typical thinking of those that have never hunted, let alone killed an elk. The more you hunt and kill them the more you realize they're just flesh and blood and die like every other animal, despite their reputed toughness.

I could be perfectly happy to hunt elk the rest of my life with the 7-08 and have every confidence I'd be just fine. Problems with "elk rifles" are usually just problems with elk shooters.

Nice.

Love the 7-08! A lot of different bullet weights work great for the suggested game, though I'm partial to the 150's.

DF,

I have your rifle's twin in a 6.5CM:



David

Nah, the 7-08 is a puddy tat, a real friendly round to load for.

I had one some years back, but traded it. You know how us Loonies are...

Think this one is gonna be a keeper.

DF

NICE!

I'm also working with a new 6.5 CM, Shilen 23", McWoody Mtn. Rifle handle. We'll have to compare notes.

DF

7-08. Plain Jane Kimber MT. One 150 NBT did the deed handily, penetrating 3' of elk.

Does that help any mjbgalt?

I haven't tried those 150 BT in my 7-08 yet. Mind sharing a good recipe please?

There is no ugly when discussing the 7-08...

I have a 7-08. Don't have a .308. 7 must be better, at least till I get a .308

JG, as you know the 7-08 works well with a dizzying amount of powders.

I settled on:

150 NBT / 46.5 H4350 / 210M / Rem Brass / 2,700 fps

Love the 7-08.

Love...



Dave

UncleSoapy,

I've only owned four 7mm-08's, but every one has been very accurate and easy to load for--and shot well with factory ammo too. Haven't shot vast amounts of big game with it, but between the 7-08 and the 7x57 (which is exactly the same thing ballistically) have taken at least a dozen species of big game, including a number of whitetails. But have also taken game up to bull elk and moose in North America, and wildebeest and kudu in Africa. Oh, and pronghorn and springbok (the African equivalent of pronghorn) out to around 400 yards, where the same ballistics work fine too. They're both fine all-around cartridges.

Anyone us the factory Federal 140gr Fusion ammo on an elk?

Bought a few boxes of it off the classifieds here at a great price. Shot my Montana with it at 300yds a couple of weeks ago, and i was pretty dang impressed with how well it grouped!

Seems like the Fusion stuff is hard to make shoot badly!

Easily in the top 5 list of cartridges.

UncleSoapy,

For many years I've been enamoured with both the 308 and the 7mm-08 though I have never owned either. In my early years when I first started hunting I used a 7X57 sporterized mauser which is basically a 7mm-08. I skipped over the 308 at some point opting out for the 30/06 instead. I found recoil from the 30/06 to be a bit more than I cared for due to the fact that I like to practice with my hunting rifle a lot and 50-75 rounds a week I found my shoulder a bit bruised. Eventually I got my hands on a 270 and for 12 years now its been my cartridge of choice.

IMO cartridges such as the 7mm08, 7X57, 308, 270, etc are all cartridges I consider to " kick a little, but kills a lot" category. The 7mm08 offers slightly less recoil slightly better long range ballistics than the 308 IMO, whats not to like?

Recently I made a bit of a move and am toying with the idea of going from my 270 as a mainstay to a 6.5X55 swede. Last year was the first year I hunted the little swede and recoil is noticably less. Both rifles are the Tikka T3 so it was an apples to apples comparison. Results were more than satisfactory on deer, enouph so, next year it will get used for elk. I think the 7mm08 would fall under the same concept with perhaps a little more recoil and an ability to handle heavier bullets if thats your thing.

The 7mm08 just might be the best "kicks a little, kills a lot" cartridge availiable today. I know my 7X57 I used years ago was a killing son of a gun which is the very reason I began to steer toward the lighter recoiling cartridges to begin with.





Trystan

NO ! Not according to

Top 10 Ammo sales >> OR

Top 10 Reloading Die Sales.

The 7-08 is not even in the Top 10 of either.

Jerry

Good grief...

Have you ever considered it may be one of the best kept secrets of............

"those in the know"

Most folks dont know what they dont know ☺

Trystan

Been hunting with the 7mm08 for over 20 years..... There is no bad and ugly with it . Nothing but good in my opinion! I have taken ALOT of game with it over the years and it remains my favorite caliber .

Ugly, as a slightly less popular cartridge, factory ammo is usually more expensive then 308 or 06. Not a big deal.

Rrrrrrright......

My 7-08 would be one of the last rifles I'd sell.

For anything up thru Elk, I could be perfectly happy if all I had was 7mm-08.

my favorite chambering.

I load 150 gr Sierras and 42 gr of IMR 4320. Stupid easy accurate.

Your stupid never fails to impress.

I have put together three different 7-08s over the last couple of years. Easy to load for, mild recoil, enough knock-down for everything that I hunt. Nothing to dislike about that particular chambering.

Its the best thing on a 308 case. With ballistics like a 7x57 it's hard to fault. I wish were a huge fan but never saw any advantage for me anyway. YMMV.

Despite 8-10 of them ,starting when the cartridge came out, I never became enchanted. Friends and I used them here in New England for quite a few years,mostly with 140 gr bullets,but there was no advantage over a 7x57 for the same game,and I liked the longer neck and somewhat bigger case of the 7x57 better.

I think one old pal still has his, a lefty on a short 700 action. I had various Remington offerings, M70 FW's ,Compact Classics, Kimber 84L and Montana's(at least 4 of those. I kept trying!

It was always slower with comparable bullets than a 270 or a 280;certainly didn't kill any better..... the somewhat shorter, lighter rifles never allowed me to kill anything that i couldn't and didn't kill with a 270 or 280 just as easily.

With 270's and 280's in the stable it was superfluous, offering no advantage. It's ballistics are easily duplicated by several other cartridges so no gain there.

Recoil differences? I know it's subjective, but to me there is no recoil differences.Recoil from a 7/08 is trifling....so is a 280.

I sold my last one, a Kimber Montana, about 18 months ago....another failed attempt at liking the 'short action/7/08" concept. It never blew my skirt up.Nothing wrong with it but I'll take a 270,280,or 7x57 any time.

It's popular in New England but eyeballing ammo sales and rifles I'd say it's behind the 30/06,308,and 270 and it ain't even close.

Same here, it will be here tomorrow. Thinking of doing a Faux Ti.

Load up some 120 grain NBTs with either Varget or Big Game and you'll have it.

I you'd have listened to Dober and I and gone the no-brainer Kimber MT route (308 Win) you might still have the rifle

Oh gawd Brad....you guys know I couldn't do that....

This is where I'm coming from: I have NOTHING against the 7-08 at all. I'd take it before the 308 - just me.

Here are the latest stats that "I've seen".


Nifty Two Fifty posted on P 5 of Why 25-06 isn't more popular:


Based on ammunition sales, the 25-06, as good as it is, didn't make the top ten:

Here are Federal’s top sellers from 2014:

1. .223 Remington/5.56mm NATO
2. .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO
3. .30-’06 Springfield
4. .30-30 Winchester
5. .270 Winchester
6. .243 Winchester
7. .300 Winchester Magnum
8. 7mm Remington Magnum
9. 7.62x39
10. .300 Winchester Short Magnum
11. .22-250 Remington

But the 25-06 did make #10 on the RCBS rifle die sales list for 2012, the only year I found:

RCBS 2012 Top 10 Rifle Reloading Die Sales

By Chuck Hawks

Curious about the popularity of centerfire rifle cartridges among reloaders? There usually isn't a dramatic change from year to year; it is more like a glacial movement. Regardless, here is RCBS's 2012 sales list (first published in 2013) for their top 10 best selling rifle reloading die sets:

.223 Remington
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.243 Winchester
.270 Winchester
.300 Winchester Magnum
.22-250 Remington
7mm Remington Magnum
.30-30 Winchester
.25-06 Remington
_________________________
Nifty-250



You'll note the 7-08 is NOT in either list.

I have some 'statistical' basis for my comment.


Otherwise anyone could say -- __________ is the BEST/TOP or among the top 5 cartridges.


Opinions are just like belly buttons, everyone has one.


Jerry

Yep, that's universal and all inclusive.


However we have 'access' to information so that our opinions have SOME basis in FACT.


Jerry

I understand completely.

My TIKKA T 3 SS Lite 270 Win is the same for me. AT the same time there are plenty who complain, criticize, & defame the T 3 's characteristics.

BTW, mine has been in the field since 2003 - finished 14 hunting seasons - not 1 problem.

Jerry

For you Uncle Soapy a 7mm-08 properly dressed in a McSwirly
You need a McSwirly to get everything out of a rifle

An ADDENDUM :

I actually LIKE the 7-08.

It is what it is....

It ain't what it ain't.


Jerry

I bought a 7mm-08, once, took it to my Smith without ever shooting it, chambered to 284 Win, no one will ever convince me this wasn't the right decision.

20 degree shoulder is just wrong.

I seemed to recall you and your elk hunting guide were not impressed with the 7mm-08 performance on elk.

Have not seen posts from your guide, lately. Hope he is OK.

Wayne

Hard to argue when a Chuck Hawk's reference appears.

We're pretty fond of the 7mm-08 around here. My boy has practically grown up with his.

[img:left][/img]

[img:left][/img]

When you did so Boise....what was the chosen R.O.T. ?

Lots of great .284 bullets and great 308 brass is easily available. Pretty good selection off the shelf as well.

308 likely has better off the shelf options, but will do nothing that can't be done with a 7/08.

Given similar bullets, an animal will never know the difference.

Just who is Chuck Hawks and why should we care

He posts here as "Savage 99."

Snork

smokepole,

Well played....

It seems you've managed to totally miss the point that the "Top 5" comment was made without reference to popularity with the masses.

I'm glad I hadn't yet sipped my coffee.

ummm, you missed the point. The 375 H&H is arguably the best all around cartridge ever, and I guarantee you it's not in the top ten either...

It is easily, in my opinion, one of the better "all around" cartridges for North American hunting.

Another big fan of the 7MM-08! I've had probably a dozen over the last 15 years - 4 where custom builds. Currently have 4 in the safe, feel naked if I have less than that:) I'm a factory ammo shooter and have had great luck with either the 140 grain Fusion or 120 grain Nosler BT ammo. Just bought some these - excited to see how they shoot!

I have a 7mm-08 in a Sako rifle. Very nice package, accurate and easy to shoot. I also have a .280 so I basically only use the 7mm-08 with 140 grain bullets and use the .280 with anything heavier. I have taken a number of deer with the 7-08 and find it very effective. I primarily use either Hornady 139 gr softpoints or Speer 145 gr. softpoints.

Nice bull!!

I guess you could make that argument. But not really, in the context of the OP.

I think you could make that same argument for the 260. IMO, the advantage of the 7-08 is heavier bullets for bigger stuff, so for deer I prefer the 260. Especially if you get one with the right magazine length, 3 inches.

Exactly......

What it ain't......it doesn"RECOIL" a lot
What it is.........it "KILLS" a lot

Sounds like a very good place to be ☺




Trystan

I have nothing against the 7/08 but I've never felt the need to own one. What will it do that my 270 won't? My brother recently decided to try a Ruger American in 7/08. Funny thing was I went with him the first day he shot it, and after 5 or 6 shots, his shoulder was bruised worse than it's ever been, and he's hunted with 300 Win. Mags his entire life. So much for the theory that 7/08's don't kick! Granted he was shooting Hornady "Superformance" ammo because that's all the store had at the time, but it was pretty funny, that he had bought it so he could have something that would be more fun to shoot than his 300 mag. and his shoulder ends up black and blue and sore for a week.

Smokepole,

The entire country of Sweden makes your argument for you concerning 6.5 bullets at 260 velocities used on moose.



Trystan

That's funny, I have a lightweight 7-08 that I've shot a ton, and never had a bruised shoulder.

Must have something to do with what those guys said earlier about the rifle and load having as much or more to do with shootability than the cartridge.

Freaking hilarious......

+1

There is a huge difference in felt recoil, between these 2.



& the 33ft-lbs/sq" is not the 7mm-08 !

Badly fitting stock, or bad form are the only 2 options here.

I'm a fan, as is my dad. 140 gr Partition or Accubond over 47.5 gr Big Game, WLRM, 2.806". One shot each.

225 yards




541 and 545 yards




346 yards




306 yards




You get the idea.




P

Yes....true.

But....the 260 wasn't around when I formed my frame of reference,and when it showed up my attitude was..."here we go again.....something else I don't need".

It mighta been a perfect silhouette cartridge for Jim Carmichael to plink with,but when it came time to go BG hunting worldwide, Jim didn't take a 260.....he packed a 280.....




Honestly you can't go chasing after ever single duplicitous, overlapping,redundant, reinvented cartridge the factories shove down your throat........or can you!???

After doing it myself I found it substantial waste of time and energy. My emphasis was not to so much play with cartridges as it was to go hunting.

I think I never fell in love with any of these short 6.5-7mm's is because I'd figured out by 1980 or so how to make 7 pound 270's and 280's etc, so they offered no advantage to me.

I own a rifle that was a 7-08. Not sure I'd get one though as it strikes me as neither large nor small. It's right in the middle. 308 seems better suited to elk, 6.5/260 seems better suited to deer. I realize the 7-08 is probably a great all around rifle. Funny how certain cartridges appeal and others don't for absolutely no logical reason.

I will say my dad's bull went approximately 0 feet after taking a bullet from a 7-08. maybe it works ok...



But, but, there's that extra .5" of bolt throw you have to suffer through!

Well, all I'm commenting on is "the best thing on a .308 case."

IMO, for big stuff it's the .308, and for deer (OP) the .260.

R.O.T.??

I don't see any performance benefit of the 08 over the 284. I understand the limits of owning a 284 in a short action but none have been an issue in my first gen Remington Ti.

Hey Pharm -

RE runs, RE runs,






pulling your chains....

Jerry

What ? Context, on the fire ?

incidentally I agree with you.

Jerry

I think this the 3rd X I've said this IN this thread.

I LIKE the 7-08. I have NO argument against it.

Jerry

R.O.T

Rate of twist.

someone asked about federal fusion 140 gr partition. My wife shot a pronghorn and 300 lb mule deer with those bullets, worked well. Sorry not an elk (yet, she'll get there!)

Had the factory barrel rechambered, I don't recall the factory twist. It shoots 120's, 140, and 145 equally well; not a tack driver but have killed bison to squirrels.

Another "different folks, different strokes" thread.

I like "different", so I don't mind chasing after duplicitous, overlapping, redundant, reinvented cartridges as it (mostly) keeps me out of trouble and in my Wife's good graces. I'm not in the business of championing any particular consumer product, to each his own I say. But I'm mostly indifferent to other folk and what they do.

I'm on my second 7-08, both have been Tikka's. I can't say that it kills any better than anything else that came from the .308 case, but it's super easy to load for and my new superlite has been more than accurate enough. I get 1/2 moa with varget and 120 bt's and shot easy1/2 inch with the hornady precision hunter this afternoon.
I bought it for my daughter and if I ever get done killing deer with it, I may give it to her.

You guess well. I was referring to the analogy of a good cartridge not necessarily being a top seller for a variety of reasons, one of which is in the continental US, there is little reason to own one.. But here, let me help you out some more:

CONTEXT:

Is this a 280 that you are showing Carmichael?

Nope that's a 223AI...

Of course BobinNH went to school with Don aka Savage99 aka Chuck Hawks.

Bob is BEYOND understanding that sheit changes over the years.


You figured out something in 1980, holy fu*cking balls, what a dumb SOB you are.

LMAO....so pathetic.

I don't know why you're so upset....I mean I used the 7/08 quite a bit and thought.....even back then....that it was one of the Top Five BG cartridges of all times...and I still firmly believe that.

Right?

I have a certain fondness for the 7-08, as my username reveals. The first big game rifle I had made with a good custom barrel is a LH short 700 with a Pac-Nor dup of the factory sporter contour. It was the first big game rifle that would shoot .5-.75" groups day in and day out. When I was living in western Oregon, I thought it was a perfect cartridge for the ranges I was shooting there.

I regard it as a more modern version of both the 7x57 (fits a short action better) and a .308 (less recoil paired with better BC bullets.) And before the fans of those cartridges wig out, I do have guns chambered for both of those rounds.

Now that I hunt more in UT, WY, MT, and CO, I tend to grab rifles chambered for cartridges like the .257 Wby or the 7mm Rem mag because I think they give me a little more range. But in reality, there is probably only one animal I have shot in the last decade for which the 7-08 would not have done the job just as well.

Im just surprised the first few pages went so smooth. Lol.....

Steelhead is correct though.....things did change....like the shape of the case that propelled the bullet to the same exact velocity as a 7X57

I've found that the 7mm-08 is much like the 308 in that it's not fussy, doesn't burn a lot of powder, and does not need premium bullets to work very well on game. Never owned a 7x57, but it sounds like it has also done a lot with a little. I think the 7mm-08 is best in handy rifles with 22" or shorter barrels.

+1, my favorite cartridge over the last 10 years. Accurate, doesn't kick much and just kills well. I have not experimented with a lot of bullets and have done so well with the Hornady 154 RN and SP, its difficult to try anything else. I do like the 308 as well, but have a soft spot for the 7

I own or have owned 4, longest barrel on any was 21". Does well as do all 308 based rounds in carbine form

As far as a bruised shoulder from shooting, its not the cartridge

I have gone through 4 or 5, 7mm-08s, but the one that I still own is a 7x57 from Melvin Forbes.

donsm70

I have a couple of7MM-08"s several 7X57's and a 308. I can't recall a deer (white tail or muley) or antelope that has cared what he got shot with, he just died. That being said I also have a fondness for the 257R.

I like my BLR 7 08. Just made some more cartridges 4 it. 140 NP, 160 Speer and 175 hornady interlocks. Harvested both deer and elk with 150 NP s using H 4895.

The point of the 308 Winchester/7.62 NATO was to have .30/06 ballistics in a shorter case. 51mm versus 63mm. Which is a good thing. Any deer shot with either a 308 0r a 7mm-08 is going to die

Does make the 7-08 a 270win?

They're seperated by 150fps, plus or minus, whatever that might be worth to you. If I'm hunting a 23-24" sporter, the short action concept doesn't really matter so much any more, and I'd just as soon have something on the '06 case. Going for handy, I'd rather have a 20" short action rifle and not sweat the extra bit of velocity loss. I hunt ground blinds, tree stands, and box blinds pretty regularly, so I often go for handy over maximum ballistics.

In the almost 60 years that I've been shooting, hunting, or reading about it, I've come to a few conclusions. One is that there is always someone who believes that a certain cartridge has "magical qualities". One so called "selling point" is that a certain cartridge kicks like a baby, yet kills like a bear. I cannot tell you how many times I've read, or heard, that a 7-08, or a 7X57, or a 6.5X55, or a 260 Rem, just to name a few, seem to "kill better" than a cartridge of similar size. I've used all those cartridges to kill whitetails with, with the exception of the 260, and they kill no better than my favorite one, the 270 Win. As far as recoil goes, if you load any of those with a max load and shoot it in a lightweight rifle, you will get some felt recoil. Now, of those that I've listed, the felt recoil was noticeably less in the 6.5X55, but I attributed that to the fact that the rifle was a little on the heavy side, and the loads weren't max. My 7-08 in a Model 700 Mountain Rifle has more felt recoil to me than does my 270, that's in a Model 700 Classic. That's with a 140 grain at 2800 fps in the 7-08, and 130 grain at 3000 in the 270. I attribute that to the 7-08 weighing a little less. I have 2 7X57's, a Winchester Model 70 Lightweight, and a custom Mauser. Again, shooting 140 grain bullets, and max loads, the recoil is similar to that of the 7-08 and the 270. So, my conclusion is that the choice of a certain cartridge is personal, and not because it has any kind of magic associated with it. All I hunt is whitetail deer, and hope to draw a Kentucky elk tag, and I'd be perfectly content to use a 270, or a 7-08, or a 7X57 as my only cartridge for the rest of my life.

[quote=prm]I own a rifle that was a 7-08. Not sure I'd get one though as it strikes me as neither large nor small. It's right in the middle. 308 seems better suited to elk, 6.5/260 seems better suited to deer. I realize the 7-08 is probably a great all around rifle. Funny how certain cartridges appeal and others don't for absolutely no logical reason.

I will say my dad's bull went approximately 0 feet after taking a bullet from a 7-08. maybe it works ok...

Right in the middle with great bullets that is what makes it so good.

I don't believe anyone on this thread has said otherwise. Which makes sense, since the .270 holds more powder.

No, nor is any worse.

You are the magician.

Used them both on Deer a good bit and as far as effectiveness, the .22-250 has worked as quickly. So has a .223AI a few times. One friends Daughter has been using a .223 effectively, young magician she apparently is.


I'd go with the 7mm-08 if I had to choose one and Deer was the game.

Another military advantage of the 308, 7.62x51, was to have a case designed with a heavier/thicker rim construction to reduce the frequency of the rim being torn off and the weapon disabled when used under sustained fire situations in machine guns. Almost every WW2 or Korea USA or USMC infantry veteran will remember when his unit lost its light machine gun support when one or more of their Colt M1919s was disabled due to a 30-06 rim being torn off.

How does one rate effectiveness of their favorite over the effectiveness of another's favorite?

We need a top 10 effectiveness or kill better rating scale.

I wouldn't buy a .270W if Echols made it in JOC's trophy room on a Model 70 pre64 action. Still, bet it rates pretty high on someone's subjective effectiveness/kill better scale.

Well, ain't none 'better'.









Funny, how many Xs we read this or that cartridge is "just as good as the 270"

Seems like a benchmark.


Jerry

I measured 2 firearms - a centerfire bolt action with 22" barrel and a side by side shotgun with 25" barrels. Both are 41.5" long in total. The shotgun is completely handy in any situation (I actually would prefer inch-longer barrels). And I've never wished the rifle was shorter for any use - blind, tree stand or back sear of a truck.

Conversely, you can reduce the recoil 15 to 20% while only losing 8 to 10% velocity by hand loading START (not reduced) loads for a given powder. Those loads will still kill "a lot", depending on what bullet you are using maybe better.

But, you don't get a new rifle that way!

I do find it more than a little funny..

And there's your answer.

Recoil in a 7mm-08?

I've one in a Nula. Load it hot and even Smoke can handle it easily. And he is getting up there.

Well, I’ll throw in some gack talk that has only a minor relationship to the 7m-08 under discussion.

Placement, placement, placement, then bullet construction. If you put a decent bullet in a vital area any animal on Earth will die. “Decent” meaning it holds together well enough to reach the vitals. If you want to shoot from any angle through any obstruction – shoulder bones, paunch full of food, whatever, use a stronger, slower expanding bullet. If you take only broadside shots and can avoid hitting heavier bones you can use faster and/or quicker expanding bullets, I understand the VLD bullets work very well since they come apart violently after about two inches of travel.

Bullets don’t know what case they’re loaded into. Range turns every chambering into a lesser one. A .300 Magnum at 400 yards is no more powerful than a lesser sized case closer up. And animals don't read energy charts in the first place.

Regarding the .270, it achieved popularity at a time when your average deer/elk hunter was using cartridges that threw bullets at 2000 to maybe 2600-2700 fps and had rainbow trajectories. (Yeah, I know, the 2% of rifle looneys were using Newtons and what all, I’m talking about the other 98%) The .270 came along and threw a cup and core bullet of size big enough to penetrate okay at a speed that would let you miss your range estimate out there at 275-325 yards by several yards and still get a hit. That’s what JOC liked about it. Nowadays everybody has laser range finders so you know within one yard how far the animal is and can hold or adjust your scope accordingly.

We've overcome the range problem but wind is still the long range shooter’s gremlin so high BC bullets that drift less are what folks want now, speed which translates to trajectory is not as important as it once was, that's why a lot of folks like smaller brass bottles since they don't kick as hard in equal weight rifles as those ejecting more powder. But those high BC bullets do the same thing in the horizontal plane that the .270 did in the vertical – they let people misjudge the unknown variable a bit but still get a hit.

Each animal is different, each shooting situation is different. I don’t have any empirical evidence of this but I’d wager the animal’s reaction is different if the heart is in its systolic or diastolic condition (or however that is described) and that reaction still varies tremendously with bullet placement.

Swedes have used a 6.5x55 on everything and it kills them. Some folks use .223’s and .22-250’s on deer and even elk with cup and core bullets and have killed them for years. One guy many decades ago used a .17 Remington on feral donkeys and reported that it killed them immediately – provided he hit them properly.

Placement, then bullet construction. The brass bottle is in a distant third place.

I really wish I had videos of multiple deer and elk being shot at various ranges with any of 5 different cartridges, say from the 6.5 Creed up to a .30-06. Ask people to watch the videos and tell which cartridge the shooter used just by the animals' reactions, distance they travel and time it takes for the animal to expire. I would bet goodly money no one could do it except by random chance.

Learn to shoot. Disrupt the animal’s vitals any way you want and it will die. If you want to hit things far out there, get a range finder and use a bullet with a high BC. That high BC will steer you toward the 6mm to 7mm range since that seems to be a nice sweet spot of velocity/bullet weight/recoil – you could shoot a .458 bullet with an equally high BC at 2900-3000 fps if you had the right twist but your shoulder sure wouldn’t like it.

Some brass bottles have minor handloading advantages over others or the barrel might last 10% longer or whatever reason people choose to rationalize their purchases and stroke their ego identity, but those are gack discussions outside of killing power. Bullets don’t know what cartridge they are fired from.

Learn to shoot accurately. Learn your quarry's anatomy so you can put a properly constructed bullet (and there are tons of them these days) where it will kill them. Everything else is illuminated pixels on someone’s computer screen.

Now if you want to talk sheer "stopping" power on large dangerous carnivores then it would seem that bullet diameter has a role to play. But that's a different discussion that I have no experience in but even then you still have to put the bullet in the right place.

If I wanted what I thought would be the worlds greatest Deer cartridge, it would be a Swift using today's stout bullets.

To the OP:

There's nothing "magic" about 7mm-08 but it is pretty damned balanced. IMHO it's about as good as it gets for hunting blacktailed deer under the conditions I encounter. I haven't killed an elk with it but, while not perfect, I wouldn't have much hesitation to use it under roughly the same conditions. Like any .308-based cartridge, it will have some range limitations but those are quite a ways beyond where most of my shooting happens so they're not much of an issue.

I've owned 3 7mm-08s. The first two were fine, Remington Sevens, one blued, one stainless.

The current one is being a pain in the ass. It's a 700 CDL-SF. Accuracy has been inadequate so far, in the 2 MOA range. It has already failed with the 162 grain Hornady BTSP. It is in the process of failing, but not done yet, with the 140 Accubonds. A brief session when I first got it with 120 gran VMAXes suggests maybe it likes flat based bullets rather than boat tails so when the ABs are gone, I'll try partitions. If it fails there, I'm done with it. I haven't decided yet if I'll rebarrel to something else or just punt it.

The cartridge is, IMHO, a proven winner, but some of the rifles chambered for it are not. That's just how it goes.

Tom

The 7mm-08 is a good pistol cartridge, in the XP100.

Bought a Ruger American in 7mm-08 for my son three years ago...he's sixteen now.

It's a great round. He has taken a few deer now with it. I do handload for it with 140gr Sierra HPBT GameKings...a wicked bullet...expansion is fantastic.

The only factory ammo that particular rifle likes is Hornady American Whitetail. I tried Federal, Remington, and Winchester with pretty bad groups. Hornady grouped well...right at 1". Handloads are even better groups with Varget.

The 7mm-08 is an excellent choice.

Good looking rig!!!

I have owned two 7MM08`s.one shot ok,the one I have now shoots great.I will use it as a backup rifle to my 270.

Simple! Mine is the better choice, especially for the thinking man.

One of my 7-08's

24 inch tapered octagon barrel. It will put 140gr Accubond into a ragged hole all day.

My wife has used a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08 for years on mule deer, elk and pronghorns. It shoots accurately, doesn't kick much and works very well on game with 140 grain bullets (mostly Accubonds in recent years). I think it has a slight advantage over the .308 for open country hunting in that it shoots a little flatter with bullets of comparable SD. On the other hand, I think the .308 has a slight advantage on larger game. The differences are pretty small though. Either one works very well for most North American hunting. It mostly gets down to personal preference.

I know, I know, but some need an effectiveness factor. They need it quantified in order to know exactly where they fit, re the current top 10 trend of effectiveness in calibers, cartridges, etc. Most can't come close to your rugged individualistic nature.

Nice rifle.

Mine will also, but I have to fill in the gaps most often. Which is the hard part.

Classy rifle!

Are you Ole Gun Geek in disguise, per chance?

Sounds vaguely familiar.

Jerry

Only possibly in a former life.


No, I've been ME all my life.


Jerry

Beautiful rifle!!

NICE!

Would like build details on that one.

DF

GSP - "One of my 7-08's"

24 inch tapered octagon barrel. It will put 140gr Accubond into a ragged hole all day.


G O R G E O U S !

Jerry

DF Obviously it's a Ruger action.Trigger is a Timmney skeleton pistol grip cap, metal butt plate, inleted swivel studs on islands, ebony Schnabel for end tip, custom quarter rib & QD rings. The barrel was from McGowen but I would not use them again. The English walnut blank came from Cecil Fredi in Vegas. R.O.T is 1:10.

Here are more pics

Exceptional lumber.

Well done.

DF

I can't help laughing every time I see him post this.

For the life of me I can't decide on whether I want a 7mm-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor for my next rifle to put together. Then there's the decision of ~ Do I go with a lightweight easy carry rifle or a heavier longer barreled rifle??? Decisions ... Decisions.

.... this thread is helping me lean a certain direction on my choice of chambering at least

Easy carry, by more than a nose.

GSPfan, that rifle is simply outstanding.

The 7mm08.....kills like a 6.5 Creedmoor with slightly superior "recoil"



Trystan

Recoil seems to effect me in certain instances(not afraid to admit it) ... only reason I'm having problems making a final decision

You old farts are always complainin' about rifle weight. Why don't you do some workouts so you can carry a man's rifle? .338 WM, walnut stock, 26" barrel at a minimum, so you can reach out with enough retained energy and knockdown power.

There's a workout thread on the backpacking forum, you need to get with the program.

That's funny, but true...

They both kill well, the 7-08 kicks a bit more...

DF

If there's any concern on the 7mm-08 recoil, split the difference and get a .260 Rem.

I love my 7mm-08, built on a Mauser action, Douglas air gauge barrel, Keplinger single set trigger and a hand finished fancy walnut stock. And yes it is a shooter.

I really like my 7-08 Mtn Rifle. Worked well for me on deer and black bear. Easy to carry, shoot and load for. Can't really see much in NA it wouldn't do, given good bullets.

Forgot the pic

Love my 260s also. I have not seen an appreciable difference in recoil or killing ability, each spitting NABs.

The Good?
(long list here:)
Good accuracy
easy to load for
light recoil
powder miser
seems to kill out of proportion
Short action

The Bad?
(Short list here:)
Factory ammunition not quite as common as the parent 308 Win

The Ugly?
So easy to load for, that it is hard to look past a 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and 43 grains of Varget.

Workout thread? Ya right. Checked in there one time and some poster was going on and on about his glutes. Then he called somone else creepy.

Wow, I see what you did. You really went out of your way to work my glutes into the conversation, again. It's unhealthy, drop it.

I put this Ruger American 7mm-08 together this year. Bought it 2 years ago with a LEO discount from Sportsmans Warehouse. Tried Talley rings on a Burris Fullfield ii 3-9x. Friend wanted the scope so I pulled it only to find tube damage from the Talley rings, so rings had to go also. It shot 1" with Federal Fusion 140gn which uses the speer hot core bullet i believe. Decided this summer to send the action to morgan at Class III in Dallas for a barrel cut-back and rethread. Added a Redfield Revenge Accushoot reticle 3-9x mounted in a DNZ one piece ring base. Very solid! It's now 18.5" long, threaded 1/2-28 with a special ordered 1/2-28 .30 cal ASR 3 prong suppressor mounting platforn. It's a handy gun now, easy to carry and very compact without a can attached. I have debated selling it twice, no big takers either time. I even have a second olive green stock for it if needed.

Lol


Trystan

Cotis, Federal uses their own version of a bonded bullet in the Fusion ammo, not a Speer Hot-Cor. From the language used on their website, it looks like it's a plated bullet. They market it as the jacket and core being molecularly "fused", hence the name Fusion. I don't know if Speer makes the bullet or not

Didn't mean to derail the thread. Everyone can go back to loving/hating the 7-08 now.

Common,a real mans rifle would be a 4 bore.

For me, I think the 7-08 is a slightly superior clambering for truly "big" big game. For a deer rifle I'd go 6.5 I think...

Well, being that this is the 24hr Campfire, I will say you need one(at least) of each, RickyBobby!

As Mule Deer used to say, 'Duh!'

Obviously you need to read more Boddington.

Good to know. With Federal and Speer both being owned by Vista Outdoor I figured they were using their sister company's product. I meant to say it is Deep Curl bullet, at least that's the rumor

...or a 139 Hornady...or a 140 Accubond... or a 140 Pro Hunter. All have also shot well with 43 grains of Varget for me.

I have had no experience with the Accubond in this cartridge, but my experience mirrors yours with the Hornady and the Sierra.

I just picked up this model 7 in 7mm-08 and dropped it in a H&S stock...It is going to be my walking around rifle....


[img:center][/img]

I have always thought of the .257 Rob as the perfect whitetail cartridge and the 30-06 as perfect all around cartridge.

Now that I have a Tikka T3 Lite 7-08 I'm leaning toward that as a replacement (dare I say it???) for the venerable 06, tho I won't be selling my Mauser Straight Pull Springfield anytime soon.

The good is balance... rifle-wise, cartridge-wise with propellant, speed, and ease of forming brass (someone here once said that if his 7-08 could read it'd think it was a 7.62 NATO and that's true of mine as well).

The ugly is factory ammo; that inexpensive Hornady American Whitetail 139 Interlock load was sick accurate through mine. If I weren't a loonie I'd question the intelligence of continuing to use handloads!

The other downside to the 7-08 is one it shares with the 270, 308, and 30-06; once you have one you set yourself up for difficulty justifying a new big game rifle as a "need".

Mine will head west with me this October for pronghorn and return next year for elk. Love it.

If dealing with a picky 7mm-08, acknowledging that most are not throated as long as a typical 308, a good magazine-length option is to try the Speer SPBT, as you can generally seat it to engage the lands if you want, or be just a touch off.

? ? ?

I wrote 3 paragraphs...let's just say we have different opinions.

Still friends.

Jerry

efw -

Let me qualify please.

As much as I like and respect the 7-08....

With 200 gr & 220 gr for 30-06, the 7-08 would have a hard time filling those shoes.

Jerry

The 160 in the 7-08 at the same speed as the 200 in the 30-06 is a heck of a lot of cartridge. I'd not hesitate to use that load on anything a 30-06/200 would be loaded in NA for, and, hit the same, I have little doubt the outcome on any animal in any scenario would be different with either one.

I played with a "standard" out-o-box 7-08. Liked the cartridge a lot. The one I'm just about to put together is on a 110 action so I'll have no length issues. Can't wait to play with it.

Nor are 200 & 220gr needed for Whitetails which was the OP's concern. They will most certainly work, but for Whitetails will do nothing the 7mm-08 offerings will not and may do better.

I'd agree to that, however my comments were made based upon efw's statement,
------------------
"... and the 30-06 as perfect all around cartridge.

Now that I have a Tikka T3 Lite 7-08 I'm leaning toward that as a replacement (dare I say it???) for the venerable 06, tho I won't be selling my Mauser Straight Pull Springfield anytime soon."
----------------



Yes, Brad I understand, but let's make a deal...

When we come face to face with 'bone fidee'() BROWN BEAR,
you can have the 7-08 and 160 NP or whatever....

I'll take the 06 w/200 NP.


The outcome MIGHT be the same, but I'd feel better.

Jerry

At least you admit you preference is emotional and not rational. Kudos for that.

Not necessarily.

.284 - 160 VS ,308 - 200

Starts larger, expands larger

I'd feel better based on larger entrance & larger wounds.

Jerry

That fits most opinions on cartridges, mine included LOL.

I find that my opinion on cartridges is swayed by the accuracy of particular rifles I've owned. I like the 7-08 because I have one that's among the most accurate I've ever owned.

True enough!

Weellll, now you guys did it again with all this 7-08 talk. I had the chance to buy a sako 7-08 AII in excellent condition and beautiful wood that I don't need and going to pick it up today. Killed a couple deer with one a few years back but sold it. I figured if I decide I don't want it at some point some rifle hound here surly will.

Should we bring up the topic of the 7-08 loaded with 175 Partitions? What would it not do?

Seems like a 375 would be the next real step up if one needed that kind of muscle.

Though I sure enjoy the results of a good 30 caliber hole in NA game.

I have zero use for a 200 or 220 grain bullet for 99% of my hunting purpose and I doubt most hunters ever need such a requirement.

If I did I likely would not be propelling that application in an 06 as there are a large number of other hulls that do that better. When I tried it years ago I used the 300 win mag. Results in over 40 years were exactly the same as a 270 pushing a 130 grain bullet though in fairness I wasn't hunting dangerous game as a comparison.



Trystan

Everyone know a 120gr BT out of a 7mm-08 is the campfire projectile of choice

The 7MM-08 and a 140gr bullet go together like pie and ice cream. It's a great deer cartridge but IMHO to try to load it up with 175gr bullets it's like entering my Impala in the Daytona 500, it just isn't practical. If I want a 175gr bullet for Elk or such then I'll go to a 280 or one of the 30 caliber rifles I have.

For me, the 7-08 is all about 140's, 150's & 160's, just like the 308 is all about 150's, 165's, and 180's.

3100 and change with half-minute accuracy ain't bad.





I must say I prefer 140 Partitions at 2870, however.








P

I haven't killed anything with them or run them thru a chrono, but the factory ELD-X -150 gr load shows promise

f

I'm working on a handload using this bullet. What's the cartridge OAL?

Anyone know which powder they use?




P

No idea on the powder, but just put the calipers on it. Measures 2.790.

Thanks!



P

+2
There is a limit to how much weight the 7-08 can push appropriately.

Jerry

Has anyone tried rl26 with 150 or 160 pills

It's way too slow for the 7-08.

Thanks thought maybe cause of the 243

Well I just read through all of the posts and figured I'd give my take(not that it is anything that hasn't been said already). Personally, I think its just another good cartridge. If I were to classify it, then I would have to make classes first, but in the end I would put it right in the middle of the road. Just an all around good cartridge. This is with my limited knowledge/experience mind you.

I just got one last month myself. I spent quite a bit of time deciding on what I was going to get. The 7mm-08, in the right package, fit all my desires. I used to be a "bring enough gun" kind of guy. And I still like big/heavy stuff. I shoot a 200 grain bullet for hunting in my M94 30-30. But something happened this past deer season that changed it all for me, or at least opened my eyes to possibilities.

I had long wanted a 22 hornet for just plinking/small game hunting. Dec 2016 a friend asked me if I wanted to buy a .223 from his Uncle. His Uncle is someone who I would consider closer to me than my own Uncle, just a real nice guy. Been hunting with him for the last 10 years and love hearing his stories, always looking forward to next years deer camp. So needless to say, even though I had never wanted a .223, I jumped on this just to have a good memory piece - and I figured it would be close enough to the 22 hornet I have always wanted.

I spent the next few months shooting hundreds of rounds through it. I even worked up a MOA cast bullet load for it. This gun was the first gun I had ever owned like this. I am not a bench rest shooter, just your average joe who picked up hand loading for a hobby(thought I would save money....lmao). So for a gun to just "magically" be so accurate was amazing. I decided, I know what this thing can do, I am going to take it with me to deer camp.

I was hesitant about it, never EVER considered shooting a deer with a .223. So I took a .308 along with me "just in case". First morning I could not bring myself to take the .223, so there I was in the stand with the .308. I was confident with that gun. Practiced out to 200 yards. My stand location didn't have a shot over 100 yards anyways. Low and behold a buck comes out, I try to rush the shot, and completely miss him. As he strolls away I could not bring myself to take another shot because all I could see to hit was his neck.

Then it dawned on me. I was popping squirrels and chipmunks at 200 yards like no ones business with my .223 all year, I could have dropped that buck if I had the .223. So along it went with me the rest of the week. Turns out I was right. Dropped two bucks on two different days with one shot to the neck(and follow up shots to the neck because I still was not convinced it was enough gun.....). I have always been a shoulder/lungs shooter. But with that gun something changed because I knew what it was capable of and I was 100% confident in my shot placement.

I say all of that to say this. I am going on another elk hunt this fall. Went on my first couple years ago. I like to hike, and I realized real quick that a light weight gun would be ideal. I had convinced myself that I would not take anything less than a .308, until I started looking at the 7mm-08 and then I realized it was the ticket for what I wanted. If I had not had my experience with the .223 and shooting deer then I might be on the side of the 7-08 being "too small". But knowing what I do now, I have zero doubt I will have any issues with it.

Turns out, its a shooter also. I have yet to develop my go to hand load(hopefully will get closer tonight), but with factory ammo I would be just as confident in it as I am my .223, and its quite a bit lighter and a lot shorter. I opted for a Ruger American Compact(stainless) which comes in at 7lbs scoped, 36" total length. It feels as good as my M94 in my hands, but I know I can reach out further with it.

That's the "good" of the 7mm-08. They offer it in the smaller packages because its looked on as a smaller caliber. They do have the .308 in the same package, but I just could not see what .024" and ~20 grains of bullet weight was going to get me. The "bad" is it has a bad rap and most people think of it as a girl/kid gun. The "ugly" is resale might not be top notch because of bad rap. But you wont ever see me selling this gun willingly......

Best answer yet, thank you

It's not just the size of the case that counts w.r.t. burning rate, it's the size of the case relative to the size of the bore.

I have a Weatherby Ultra Light in 7-08 and I wouldn't trade it or sell it for anything and I really don't like synthetic stocks.

+1

When I bought my first 7mm/08 a Sako Hunter AII, it was in early 1988 and it was a special import order. You couldn't buy ammunition for it here, strictly a handloading proposition and just about every hunter I came across had never heard of it. Since the late 90's it's soared in popularity.

Currently the 7mm/08 and .308 are the most popular deer cartridges here in NZ. Bear in mind that deer hunting has no season or licence requirements here. They're considered introduced pests by the government greenies, even though most of the seven species of deer have been here for over 100 years. You can hunt them anytime you want year round and we do. Because of this the average deer hunter here would spend a lot more time hunting and shooting deer than in other places around the world. If the 7mm/08 wasn't up to the task then you'd soon hear about it and the cartridge is becoming more and more popular. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as the saying goes.

I've shot some very large Red deer stags with the 7mm/08 and it's decked them all without any fuss. The 139gr Hornady spire point is great for just about everything and for the really big boys the 150gr Nosler partition.

Yup, as well as the weight of the bullet.

I recently purchased some of the Hornady 162 grain ELD-X bullets for my 7mm-08. Have not yet worked up loads using them. Curious if anyone has tried this particular bullet and would like to hear what they think about it.

My primary 7mm-08 bullet so far has been the 140 grain Barnes TTSX. This bullet shot very well. But, I want to try something different and somewhat less expensive.

The 162 is a little heavy, IMO, for the 7mm-08 case. I'm loading the 162 in my brother's 7mm Rem Mag. I'm waiting on some bolts to get fluted to continue my experiments with the 150 ELD-X in my 7mm-08.





P

Gladesman,

I've just barely started experimenting with the 162 ELD-X in the 7mm-08 and 7x57, but have been shooting the 160 Sierra GameKing for years at 2700 from the 7x57. Have tried a bunch of bullet weights and eventually decided around 160 grains works great, partly because the moderate muzzle velocity doesn't put too much stress on cup-and-cores at modest ranges, yet performance is very good at longer ranges too. Have used the 160 GameKing out to 400 with fine results, but we'll see how the 162 Hornady does.

Please keep us posted on your results with these 150 and 162 eldx

Thanks for the replies on the Hornady ELD-X. I just got mine in the other day. Deer season closes Sunday so I will start working on some loads this coming week. I also picked up the same bullet for my 270 Win. and 308 Win. First priority is the 7mm-08. Will post my results when I get to the range. Thanks.

I sent a couple of bolts off to be fluted so don't expect anything for awhile. Initial results were decent.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11757334





P

John, you seem to write about that bullet quite a bit. Is that your favorite bullet in the 7x57 regardless of range?

RM

It's certainly my favorite for deer-sized game.

My present 7x57 will shoot any bullet in the 160-grain class to the same point of impact at 100 yards. I use the 160 GK for practice, sighting-in and most hunting, but switch to others on larger game. Have taken the rifle to Africa on a couple of long cull hunts, and aside from the 160 GK loads took ammo loaded with the 156 Norma Oryx, 160 TSX, 160 Partition and 160 North Fork. But the GameKing took more animals than any of the others.

Not to hijack this thread, but this raises a question I've been wondering about. If this is your Kilimanjaro you're talking about, I know you've written a lot about it and must have put quite a few rounds down the barrel by now. And it also doesn't sound as though you've tried to turn it into a 7RM; so my question is this: How many rounds did it have through it, or will it have through it, before starting to notice any accuracy degradation due to erosion and barrel wear? I'll never live long enough to shoot out any of mine, but I'm just wondering what sort of barrel life expectancy one can expect with a moderate cartridge like the 7x57, loaded within normal limits (again, not trying to make it something it isn't).

Thanks

RM

It doesn't have all that many rounds through it, 437 according to my notes. Haven't looked at the throat through my bore-scope lately, but doubt it would show any erosion at all. That's based on looking at the throats of a lot of hunting rifles, some shot a lot more.

My guess is a 7x57's barrel will shoot accurately enough for big game hunting out to 400 yards for several thousand rounds.

Thanks, John. At that rate, several thousand, I'd say I'm safe.

Mule Deer, have you had equal success with both the Sierra 160 SBT (1920) and the 160 HPBT (1925)? I am tempted to try the 1925s in a M77MkII 7x57 and also my M700 .280...

Haven't tried the HPBT, since have had such good luck with the SBT for so long.

I love them. I've killed a BUNCH with this little rifle. 140 TSX. Dead on the spot. I'll likely build another 7-08. I want to be like Frank. He is the best champion for the cartridge!

Nice rifles in the thread.

JB, I think the 162 holds much promise, the key as you know is to optimize the powder/load selection. Years back I was running some 160s thru a 22" M70 Fwt, and the powder choice/load may not have been ideal. That said, the GK was a fave in my first rifle, a 7RM, toned down to 2860 mv. It would run faster, but was accurate and comfortable there.

2700 is plenty, Seems like Rich at Sierra runs around 2600, in his 57 Ruger with Tasco 6x and knocked over many animals.

I think Brad said he would put that load next to a 30-06 200, and rightfully so.

JB - any idea as to how a 6.5x55 w/156 Orynx compares to that bullet in the 7/08? Penetration/speed (handloads of course/also), etc? Sure they don't fly as flat as the 162 but I assume tough on impact.

Thanks.

If anybody reading this thread is feeling the need for a 7mm-08, CDNN is selling the last of the Marlin XS7s for $280.

www.cdnnsports.com

I'm going to try some ELD-X 162's in a 7-08 eventually. I'd appreciate hearing your findings on it when you've rung it out.

As you know, another cup and core that works well is the 139 Interlock. I've used it on hogs at powder burn ranges and out to 450 yards on antelope in the 7-08. It's worked like a champ on deer, hogs and antelope and it's cheap and accurate too. I've hunted hunted elk too with it with confidence but just didn't find the elk those days. But I have no doubt it'd work great.

Yes, if you push any c-c slow enuff, it will work pretty well.

My p o v is that slow doesn't help trajectory.

Jerry

Beautiful buck!

If 90% of game is shot at less than 200 yards, who really "needs" a couple inches of gain in trajectory. Especially with today's range finders and scopes.
For me, the only thing I care about is if there is enough velocity to get the bullet to expand at the max range I intend to shoot.

YMMV

Agreed!

On the property I hunt, a 200 yard shot is a long one. Most of the deer (and pigs, of course) are taken generally at less than 100. The O'Connor load of 160-grain bullets at about 2660 fps is fine. As you said, expansion at impact velocity is key.

Love the dark antlers on that buck!

Mighty fine buck

One other reason I love my 7mm-08 is because as I age, I find that I am more sensitive to recoil. My beloved Ruger tang-safety 30-06 is just not comfortable any more, even with the best recoil pad I can find. Yet I still love to hunt elk, and need something powerful enough to for me to feel confident of it doing its job reliably if I do mine.

Now, I probably spend too much time reading things like "Is the 7mm-08 adequate for elk?" and "What is the best bullet/load combo for the 7mm-08 when elk is on the menu?", but I have always had a bit of doubt in the back of my mind when leaving the 30-06 at home and taking the little 7 out for elk.

So this is how I approached it: most people would agree that factory Hornady 30-06 ammo using a 165gr Hornady Interlock is adequate elk medicine. I decided to explore the possibility if my 7mm-08 could in any way compare to that in velocity, energy and penetration.

Now this is a fair comparison in one way: I'm going to compare factory Hornady 30-06 ammo to factory Hornady 7mm-08 ammo, but instead of the Interlock bullet I'm going with the 150gr ELD-X bullet in the 7mm-08 to see what this newly available design will gain for me.

Here's the 30-06/165 Interlock (with data from the Hornady web page):

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200
2800/2872 2591/2460 2392/2096

300 400 500
2202/1776 2020/1495 1848/1251

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.80 0.00 -7.90 -23.00 -46.70

Here's the 7mm-08/150 ELD-X:

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200
2770/2555 2613/2274 2461/2018

300 400 500
2315/1784 2173/1573 2037/1381

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.80 0.00 -7.50 -21.60 -43.00

What I see is that the 7mm-08 has slightly more retained energy and slightly higher velocity at every distance from 100 yards on out, using a bullet that has a higher SD (for penetration I can count on). Of course, penetration depends on many more factors than SD, but SD is a good, simple starting point for comparison.

The 7mm-08 also benefits me beautifully in consequence of its smaller case: recoil with the 150gr bullet and only 41.5 gr of Rel 15 in an 8lb rifle will be about 15 ft/lbs, while the 165gr 30-06 with 57gr of either H or IMR 4350 in a rifle of the same weight will bring 21 ft/lbs of recoil. Both loads get their respective bullet moving at roughly 2800 fps.

And THAT is my huckleberry - significantly reduced recoil in a off-the shelf bullet/caliber combination that favorably compares to a traditional and unquestionably adequate elk load: the 165gr Interlock in a 30-06. My nagging doubts can now be put to rest!

I would love to see the same kind of comparison with the 162gr ELD-X, but it's not available in factory 7mm-08 ammo and I believe Mule Deer is only starting to wring out some handloads for that bullet and the 7mm-08.

Thank you gentleman. That little rifle has killed a lot of deer from 25-370 yards. It's just a hammer. I've always shot 139-140 grn projectiles. The thing I love about this rifle though is that it will shoot anything I feed it equally well. 120-150grn

I picked up some 160-gr GameKings the other day, but need to some Interlocks to get the brass. But inside 100 yards these Interlocks are hard to beat.

Interlock in...


Interlock out...

I pick the 7-08 over the 30-06 for any game for really shooting/hunting here in the lower 48. If I had to kill a charging griz, I'd probly rather rely on the 30-06 (or larger), but I'll put my 7-08 up for anything less.

bludog

I like my two 7mm-08's and will probably have another one day. They are hammers on deer and fun to shoot. Both bucks were taken in the low country of SC. The first rifle is a Rem Mt. Rifle with a MCMILLAN MR stok and bolt worked over by Karl. It likes 140 gr. SGKs.



This is a GAP NT on a 700 with McMillan Classic and it likes 140 NABs, very well.

Fabulous caliber to reload for. When my boy was 12, he began loading all of his. Now he does a lot of mine.

I use one for my long range hunting rig with 162 eldm. Used a long action and had it throated out long so I could use a detachable mag and not have seat them deep in the case. My load is 45.4 grains of H350 for about 2740fps. It's taken 9 animals ranging from 75-550 yards. Only 1 has taken a step and bullets have exited on all with half fist sized holes in the ribs. I don't like allot of recoil and at this speed I don't have to use a brake and can see impacts

It's been a factory round for 37 years! You can't poke holes in deer with a cartridge that old. It ain't even a magnum or has a fancy name.
I'm gonna use my new 6.35 x 57 Ροβερτς wildcat until something fancier than a 7-08 gets writ up in the magazines.

Don't go pushin no furrin calbers around here!

It's no trick to get 2,650 with a 160 from the 7-08. That's essentially the same speed as a 180 from the 308. The last has taken so much game as to be indisputable in its effectiveness. It's what most 30-06 factory 180's get. I think the 7-08 has plenty of gas for a 160, and a Partition in that wieght at 2,650 turns the 7-08 into a giant killer.