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Posted By: JTPinTX Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Over the last 30 years or so I have spent a whole bunch of money on guns and various reloading/shooting equipment. Some of it is a requirement and something you just have to have. A press and dies for instance. However, there are lots and lots of reloading accessories, some of which have much more value than others to the user. Over the years I have picked up lots of things I thought I really needed, and spent some dang good money doing so. Some of those things have panned out, some haven't. There have been a few that really stand out as items I should have purchased way before I did. Things that have changed the way I load. Things that either greatly increased the quality of my loads, or the efficiency at which I produce them.

Chargemaster. How did I ever live without this thing? Sure, it took a few tweaks to get it running exactly the way I wanted. Adding the little brass insert into the spout, keeping it wiped down with anti-static dryer sheets, a couple things like that. But now once brass is ready I can just sit down in front of the TV, letting it throw charges while I seat bullets in my Lee hand press. 100-150 rounds an evening, no sweat. Once every 25-50 rounds it will overthrow a charge and I will dump it back in the hopper, but not often. Not like what I hear some folks talk about. Maybe I just got a good one, IDK. But if it crapped out today, I would be buying another one tomorrow,

Annealeez. Setup is quick and easy. 7-8 minutes to run 50 cases through it. Not only that, I can be cleaning the loading bench while it runs. Nice consistent neck tension. Butter smooth sizing, trimming, neck turning. Now cases pretty much last until the primer pockets let go, neck splitting a thing of the past. "Flyers" have gone way down. This is another thing I just pretty much would not do without at this point.

Hornady case and bullet comparator tools. Very high return on investment with these items. Relatively cheap, but I use them all the time. I can't load at all without using them several times during the process. Die setup to PFLR, just bumping the shoulder back .001 to .003 is so much easier with these tools. What used to take pulling the ejector, trying sized cases in the rifle, all kinds of voodoo is now fast and easy. My brass is lasting way longer. I can't even remeber the last time I had a case head separation due to incorrect die setup. Not to mention the ease of finding depth to lands and adjusting seating depth precisely to find the sweet spot.

So just out of curiosity, what are some of the loading items you guys fee you could not do without?

Well, maybe you COULD do without them, but you wouldn't want to!
Frankford Arsenal Trim and Prep Center.This tool has totally changed the way I feel about case prep.Used to be my most dreaded part of reloading,now it's almost fun.It does an excellent job and well worth the investment.
Posted By: VernAK Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Forster Co-Ax press.
Posted By: beretzs Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Originally Posted by VernAK
Forster Co-Ax press.


Same here! Love that sucker
Posted By: EdM Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
My Lee Classic Cast press, Ohaus 10-10 scale, RCBS Uniflow powder measure and Lee Autoprime.
Posted By: JTPinTX Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Forgot to add, I love Forster dies. Best deal out there IMO.
RCBS Case Master to measure runout and neck thickness.
Originally Posted by smokepole
RCBS Case Master to measure runout and neck thickness.


I finally became a member of the fire, after reading for a few years, to purchase a used RCBS Case Master that was listed in the classifieds.

It was a good deal in more ways than one.
RCBS power trimmer with 3-way cutters and trim gauges, Chargemaster, and Annealeez annealer. Lee collet dies are great too.
Posted By: hanco Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
My old RCBS Rock Chucker press 45 years old. Still works great. I had a new Redding turret press, didn't like it.
Forster press and dies.
Sinclair bullet seating depth tool.
Ohaus 10-10 scale.
RCBS auto bench primer.

Keep looking at the RCBS Chargemaster but have not sprung yet.
The purchase of a used Pacific 360 12 gauge automatic shotgun press. It saves so much time over the old MEC for cranking out Trap loads. So mundane, boring. Same load over and over and over by the hundreds.
The saved time is put to good use reloading rifle and pistol ammo!
Stoney Point (now Hornady) bullet comparators and headspace gauges.
Sinclair neck concentricity gauge.
Lee collet neck sizing dies.

The first to let me quantify seating depth and shoulder setback, the latter two to let me load very straight ammo.
Hornady comparator.....made it much easier to run O/all length tests

RCBS case master....made it easier diagnose concentricity problems.

Lyman DPS III powder dispenser...much easier to quickly dispense powder. I really like the "auto dispense" feature that allows a charge to be dispensed while I'm seating the bullet in the previous case.

RCBS case prep center... Makes it easy to take care of any case prep operations you want to make.
Posted By: devnull Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Without a doubt, the Giraud trimmer! Took a mundane and laborious task and made it as easy as sharpening a pencil in an electric pencil sharpener.
Originally Posted by nathanial
Forster press and dies.


Yep.....best money I ever spent on reloading gear.
Wilson Arbor Press & dies. No more bullet run out.

I love loading at the range.
My RCBS charge master and RCBS case prep machine are sweet but better yet are the WFT (World Fastest Trimmers) they take case trimming to a higher level! I also added a Hornady Lock and Load bushing kit to my RCBS press, set the dies once then you can hangs dies in 2 seconds!


I keep hearing great reviews of the Foster Press and that is on my future must have list.

Do I need all these items to reload, the answer is no but it makes it fast and fun!
Love my RCBS chargemaster too, as well as Lee collet neck sizing dies.
Ponsness Warren presses, I have both the handgun and the rifle press, Ohaus 10-10 scale and Redding powder measure. All top notch equipment that is a pleasure to use.
Who has the best Turret Press for the $


I see a lot of good reviews of the Redding T-7 Turret press but what about the RCBS Turret press? They are 40% less that the T-7 but How does it rate?
Posted By: 117LBS Re: Best reloading investments - 06/01/17
Anyone say chronograph yet? Been using a Caldwell but may get a ProChrono as per JB's recommendation.
Good reminder. I've been using an Oehler 35 for almost 20 years now. Amortizing the cost over that length of time I'd call it a great investment.
Love my Magnetospeed. Will never go back to a screen chrono
Originally Posted by devnull
Without a doubt, the Giraud trimmer! Took a mundane and laborious task and made it as easy as sharpening a pencil in an electric pencil sharpener.

This and my Dillon 550b press.
personal experince and knowledge , [bleep] the internet
Sinclair Ultimate Case Trimmer & Lyman Case Prep Center seem to make my reloading a bit more enjoyable!
Your eyes and common sense.

For years, I've read on this and other boards about problems associated with dies and related equipment. It doesn't matter which manufacturer you choose, make sure you read their instructions. If you do not understand, read them again. Die adjustments seem to be a problem for many people.

Most companies have websites these days. Gotta question? Ask the manufacturer. Some aren't the quickest to respond, but they will get you the help you need.

Many manufacturers have videos. Watch them.
Originally Posted by Charlieinco
Love my Magnetospeed. Will never go back to a screen chrono


+1
Originally Posted by baldhunter
Frankford Arsenal Trim and Prep Center.This tool has totally changed the way I feel about case prep.Used to be my most dreaded part of reloading,now it's almost fun.It does an excellent job and well worth the investment.



Yep, far and away the best tool I've bought in years. It saves wear and tear on the body. Less fatigue on the hands allows you to prep a lot more brass. I've always hated the prep work, it's kind of like 4 play in reloading. All the other chit the OP suggested, doesn't even compare to this piece of equipment. I can weigh my charges on a scale or drop powder from my uni-flo powder measure. That chit is painless, easy and fast with simple equipment like a good beam scale, powder measure and trickler.
Components.
JDS Quick Measure and Sinclair hand priming tool.
Posted By: Seafire Re: Best reloading investments - 06/02/17
Reloading Dies, a SET cost the same price as a box of premium bullets...

and lasts a lot longer!

Recently bought a Dillion Super Swage 600, for primer pocket crimp removal

Don't know how I've lived without that thing all these years....

$100.00, but if you reload 223, what a simple idea and it seems well built.

Thanks to Higbean for the suggestion....
Everyone needs a concentricity gauge to measure bullet runout. Everyone, no matter if you are just starting to reload or been doing it for years.
Posted By: JTPinTX Re: Best reloading investments - 06/02/17
I have a Sinclair concentricity gauge. I use it on occasion, as needed. It isn't something I use all the time. It can be very revealing of bad dies, or bad practices for sure. And when you need it, you really need it.

Magnetospeed is great too. No way would I go back to a chrono with skyscreens. Life is too short for that crap. Painstaking setup. Finicky light. Missed shots. I went through several different models with skyscreens. Never again.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: Best reloading investments - 06/02/17
Knew of a priest who turned out amazingly accurate ammunition while dressed for work.
Proof positive that the Lord looks out for Catholics. smile
Posted By: trplem Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
Lee loaders and an auto-prime, plus an electronic powder scale. They combine to make load development at the range simple.
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
Originally Posted by baldhunter
Frankford Arsenal Trim and Prep Center.This tool has totally changed the way I feel about case prep.Used to be my most dreaded part of reloading,now it's almost fun.It does an excellent job and well worth the investment.


Ditto.
Somebody else was bragging on how much time the Frankford T&P Center saved on trimming and chamfering brass. Then I told him my Gracey trims and chamfers 15-20 a minute, and he was astonished.. (The Giraud may be even faster than the Gracey, since it has a more powerful motor. I dunno, having never timed one.) Many of the tools handloaders choose are indeed an upgrade from what they had before, but are only comparisons of two tools, not several.

A lot depends on your purpose in handloading. Are you after precision or speed? Or are you looking for the best compromise for both? I've tried several progressive presses, and haven't found one that consistently produces precise enough rifle ammo for my purposes--but one of the same models may be fine for somebody else. In fact I know they can be, because a friend uses one and is very happy. But he doesn't desire as much accuracy as I do.

Many people have told me how much faster their loading is with an electronic scale/measure, since they can be seating a bullet while the next charge is dropping. But I've done a bunch of time/motion handloading tests, and a correctly used mechanical measure beats any electronic scale I've tried in speed, by a wide margin, and with the right powders and techniques in precision as well. Plus, none of the popular electronic scales I've tested have been as accurate as a good balance scale, though properly used they're close enough for most handloading.

It also depends on how much you want to spend. I got a good deal on a used Gracey trimmer, but with shellholders it still cost twice as much as Frankford. It was worth it to me, however, because I do considerable trimming of some cartridges, often batches of several hundred.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
A lot depends on your purpose in handloading. Are you after precision or speed? Or are you looking for the best compromise for both?.


+1. I can't get excited about a trimmer because I don't use one that much and having the "best" or the fastest doesn't matter to me. If I have to do a bunch of cases I just chuck up an electric drill to my Forster trimmer. To each his own.
Posted By: Gibby Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
Rockchucker, Redding T7, precision die sets with micrometer seaters, Lee crimp dies, good calipers, chronograph and a 10-10 scale.

Precision is the goal. Handgun mostly and rifle.
A chronograph.
Posted By: Huntz Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
The Little Crow Trimmer I bought about a month ago for 223 and 20 Practical.It is super fast and you don`t have to deburr the lip.
Posted By: bangeye Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
Old rcbs special at least 30 years old good as new. But probably the best value for the $$ bought a set of Lee powder scoops 2nd hand for $4. Very handy and I got rid of my powder measure. Once you get the hang of it you can scoop very consistent charges certainly as consistent as a powder measure probably better.. I also like the Lee priming tool.
Reloading is a hobby and becomes expensive if you like all the bells and whistles. Years ago a friend made very good ammo with a basic Lee set up. I have a
Chargemaster for rifles
Harrell pistol measure/ RCBS 2000 for pistols
All loading on a Co Ax.
Also use a Trim Mate for case prep.
Thumbler's tumbler
I'm sure interested in a SS cleaning media system and
Frankfort Arsenal trimmer. Hasbeen
Posted By: Gibby Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
I forgot the RCBS Little Dandy . Over the years I have accumulated almost all the rotors. A few duplicates that I modified for an exact pet load.

Always +/- .1gr with most powders. Speeds up things a lot. I might spring for a Redding Benchrest powder measure one of these days. But I really don't need it.
Originally Posted by bangeye
Old rcbs special at least 30 years old good as new...
Interesting you mention that. I've been using the same RCBS RS (Reloader Special) since 1978. I wanted a Rock Chucker but was fresh out of college and scrimping pennies. Except for a fling for a couple years with a Dillon 550 in the mid-90's it's the only metallic press I've ever had. Have thought of upgrading numerous times but it's never let me down so it keeps on keeping on.

And on that theme I was looking at the reloading bench, and that got me to thinking about the workbench in the garage and I realized a lot of my stuff can be divided into tools and toys. Toys come and go, that would include most (but not all) of my firearms. Tools get bought once and kept forever. Still using the same RCBS Uniflow measure bought in 1976, same trickler I got in 1968, same Craftsman dial caliper my father got me for Christmas in 1980, even still using the same bent paper clip incipient separation gauge I made around that same time period. Some of the tools in the garage date back to 1968, a pair of vise grips still has paint on them from a 1965 BSA 250 we put together back then.

When it comes to toys, I always want to play with the latest thing. When it comes to tools, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is the motto. Don't know if this makes me faithful, thrifty or just cheap. wink
Posted By: bangeye Re: Best reloading investments - 06/03/17
Jim my first press was an old spartan c press that I bought from a guy in my dorm while in college. His mom had painted the workbench so it too had matching red paint job. Never the less it worked fine for the $15 I gave for it . It too is still in service as I gave it to my brother when I bought my special I will say the compound leverage over the c press was an improvement. Like you I sort of coveted a rock chucker but in hind sight I don't know if I would have improved my lot in life. Maybe if I was reforming 22 hornet brass out of 375 h&h or something but for just reloading the special is plenty and then some. If the old spartan press had any advantage it was the ram had a open primer channel instead of the hollow center like the junior. I've had primers bridge up and it can be a pain to dig them out with a pipe cleaner or wire.
+1
Posted By: RinB Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
Forster Co-Ax press and dies AND chronograph
Lee Collet Dies
Posted By: slm9s Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
The chargemaster pan with the built in funnel. I don't know why it doesn't come standard with chargemaster.

https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Scale-P...fkmr0&keywords=rcbs+scale+pan+fullne
Posted By: JSTUART Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
In all honesty the best value for loading and mucking about with forearms has been a 6" mitutoyo digital caliper.
Posted By: Hugh Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
For me a chronograph.
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
I remember my first piece of reloading equipment.....a Lee handloading set for a 243. I bought the set, a can of powder, a box of bullets, and a 100 primers for about what a couple of boxes of ammo would cost. Life was simple then, and so was reloading. I couldn't believe how accurate a round I could make myself, and as I aquired more rifles, I also bought more reloading equipment. Today, I've got so much stuff that I don't know where it all is. I just wonder what kinds of advances we'll see over the next 40 or 50 years.
Posted By: jimmyp Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
the lee case trimmers and a cordless drill.
I think lots of this boils down to choices made for either precision or for speed (or convenience), with cost lurking in the background.

The other day I saw a post elsewhere talking about a new annealing machine that was digitally controlled and costs around $700, IIRC. I know darned good and well that a few probably went to the website and bought one right away because having "the best is always the way to go." But, really? I've shopped for hammers before, and they are really simple devices that will last forever if they're made even just half-assed and do the job they were meant to do well. Fifteen bucks oughta do it, but I'll bet I could shop around and find one that costs fifty or sixty bucks, or maybe even a gold plated hammer costing much more. And it would not drive nails any better than a fifteen-dollar hammer. I don't see an annealing machine as being much different from a hammer because the task is so simple. All the machine does is apply a flame to a case neck for some duration, and hopefully runs the cases through the process automatically...and that can be done for a lot less than $700. I paid around $300 for an Annealeez because I liked the fact that I could load it up with fifty .223 cases and just watch it run, and I didn't have to scrounge a bunch of parts and fiddle with assembling it for several evenings. If the Annealeez holds one in the flame for a 2/10 of a second longer now and then, I cannot imagine any real difference in the ultimate outcome---even if making ammo for a top grade benchrest rifle. On the other hand, I see annealing cases without an annealing machine of some kind a lot like pounding nails with a rock. You can do it, but it's just no damned fun at all.

Where precision is mandatory, I think it's a different story. It just depends on how much precision is needed and where the point of diminishing returns happens to be...but paying more does not always get you more.
Posted By: hanco Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
Lee crimping dies are handy
Posted By: wdenike Re: Best reloading investments - 06/04/17
Originally Posted by RiverRider
I think lots of this boils down to choices made for either precision or for speed (or convenience), with cost lurking in the background.

The other day I saw a post elsewhere talking about a new annealing machine that was digitally controlled and costs around $700, IIRC. I know darned good and well that a few probably went to the website and bought one right away because having "the best is always the way to go." But, really? I've shopped for hammers before, and they are really simple devices that will last forever if they're made even just half-assed and do the job they were meant to do well. Fifteen bucks oughta do it, but I'll bet I could shop around and find one that costs fifty or sixty bucks, or maybe even a gold plated hammer costing much more. And it would not drive nails any better than a fifteen-dollar hammer. I don't see an annealing machine as being much different from a hammer because the task is so simple. All the machine does is apply a flame to a case neck for some duration, and hopefully runs the cases through the process automatically...and that can be done for a lot less than $700. I paid around $300 for an Annealeez because I liked the fact that I could load it up with fifty .223 cases and just watch it run, and I didn't have to scrounge a bunch of parts and fiddle with assembling it for several evenings. If the Annealeez holds one in the flame for a 2/10 of a second longer now and then, I cannot imagine any real difference in the ultimate outcome---even if making ammo for a top grade benchrest rifle. On the other hand, I see annealing cases without an annealing machine of some kind a lot like pounding nails with a rock. You can do it, but it's just no damned fun at all.

Where precision is mandatory, I think it's a different story. It just depends on how much precision is needed and where the point of diminishing returns happens to be...but paying more does not always get you more.













Be careful sir entering uncharted waters, with that common sense again. Shortly one of the wind bags will be along to knock that common sense outa ya. laugh




Take care, Willie
Posted By: Trystan Re: Best reloading investments - 06/08/17
Chronograph

RCBS Case Master

Lee Neck Dies






Trystan
I'd say the best investment I ever made was my Dillon 650. The check was a real big investment at the time....it opened up a whole new world of cranking out consistent quality ammunition at such a rate that I literally spend more time shooting the stuff than making it. For me, that was huge. I could run a batch, and months later, run another identical batch with maybe five minutes of set up and a few seconds with the record book and calipers. I've had that thing for maybe 20 years now, it's melted a number of rifle barrels. Kept lubed and clean, it's still tight and smooth as it was new -- it will probably outlast whoever gets it after I croak.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
In all honesty the best value for loading and mucking about with forearms has been a 6" mitutoyo digital caliper.


Yes, that's a good one. It's one of those tools people take for granted and don't think much about, until you don't have one.

Along with the caliper, my best reloading investments were:

Dillon 550
Dillon digital scale
drill press (for case prep) and Lee trimmer pilots
ProChrono chronograph (boy was I pleased to upgrade from that Shooting Chrony!)
House with a yard where I can shoot

We could have a whole 'nother thread on bullet casting investments.
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by JSTUART
In all honesty the best value for loading and mucking about with forearms has been a 6" mitutoyo digital caliper.


Yes, that's a good one. It's one of those tools people take for granted and don't think much about, until you don't have one.

Along with the caliper, my best reloading investments were:

Dillon 550
Dillon digital scale
drill press (for case prep) and Lee trimmer pilots
ProChrono chronograph (boy was I pleased to upgrade from that Shooting Chrony!)
House with a yard where I can shoot

We could have a whole 'nother thread on bullet casting investments.

Dillon 650 is faster, the 550 is better if you're gonna be changing rounds frequently, IMO.

I have a 550 and around a dozen tool heads on stands, set up with dies for various rounds.

Dillon has stellar CS, will send parts, etc. after a phone call. Good products, good folks.

I also like the Sinclair Concentricity tool and TruAngle tool. I check most rounds, correct runout.

I'm a big fan of Lee Collet neck sizers, used with a body die. Redding body die is great, I've made body dies from Lee FL dies by grinding out the neck with a Dremel.

I like the Redding Big Boss press, like the primer collection system, hole thru the ram, spent primers falling into a tube. Beats the Rockchucker system. I have and like the Rockchucker. Just use it for seating, the Big Boss for sizing/decapping.

I like the RCBS bench primer tool and have a Uniflow with quick change metering assemblies. I have a wooden block, holes cut for a half dozen metering assemblies, pre set for various charge ranges. That saves time.

DF
I hate these threads... they always result in charges to my credit card cry
Here are the things that don't help and aren't needed

Listed in order of most useless

1) Electronic powder scale/dispenser

2) Powder trickler

3) Stoney point/Hornady, whomever, bullet comparator
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'



Been thinking about ordering one of those, I loath trimming brass.
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'



Been thinking about ordering one of those, I loath trimming brass.


No, Case prep centers are #4 on my most USELESS list of stuff to have.
Posted By: mathman Re: Best reloading investments - 06/08/17
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Here are the things that don't help and aren't needed

Listed in order of most useless

1) Electronic powder scale/dispenser

2) Powder trickler

3) Stoney point/Hornady, whomever, bullet comparator


I find a Sinclair "nut" quite handy for setting cartridge length via head to ogive instead of highly variable bullet tips.
Damnit, I need to slow read posts.
Posted By: Tejano Re: Best reloading investments - 06/08/17
Without a doubt reloading manuals. Kept me from "sploding" myself all these years. Lee loader original for $10 I was hooked and have probably only shot about six twelve boxes of factory stuff in the last 50 years. Garage sale RCBS A2 press was a good snag too.
gunner,

A Gracey or Giraud trimmer is a LOT faster than the "case prep centers" I've seen, since they both trim and chamfer at the same time. They're more expensive, of course. I can trim/chamfer 20 cases a minutes in my Gracey. All you need is case holders for specific rounds, which are relatively inexpensive.

If you're just trimming a lot of one or two specific cases, a World's Finest Trimmer (WFT) works very well and costs less. It doesn't chamfer at the same time, but used according to the directions, it trims so cleanly cases won't need chamfering. It's designed to fit in a drill motor and costs around $70, but each model is more limited in the rounds it can trim.
A used Lyman 310 tool. Kept me reloading while my bench was tied up with non-reloading stuff stored "temporarily" on, around, and under it.
I bought neck reamers for various calibers and when cases get too long I just lengthen the neck of the chamber accordingly.

Saves tons of time trimming....... wink
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'



Been thinking about ordering one of those, I loath trimming brass.

I thought you had your wifey trained to trim brass... wink

DF
Posted By: jwall Re: Best reloading investments - 06/08/17
Originally Posted by bangeye
But probably the best value for the $$ bought a set of Lee powder scoops 2nd hand for $4. Very handy and I got rid of my powder measure. Once you get the hang of it you can scoop very consistent charges certainly as consistent as a powder measure probably better..


MAYBE that depends on the powders you use. My experience was just the opposite. I use more 'large extruded' powders than any other.

I threw my Lee dippers in the trash.

Jerry
Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by bangeye
But probably the best value for the $$ bought a set of Lee powder scoops 2nd hand for $4. Very handy and I got rid of my powder measure. Once you get the hang of it you can scoop very consistent charges certainly as consistent as a powder measure probably better..


MAYBE that depends on the powders you use. My experience was just the opposite. I use more 'large extruded' powders than any other.

I threw my Lee dippers in the trash.

Jerry

I have never used or trusted scoops.

Just me.

DF
Posted By: Tejano Re: Best reloading investments - 06/08/17


Jerry[/quote]
I have never used or trusted scoops.

Just me.

DF[/quote]

Work great for fire forming loads scoop 15 gr. Red dot, 15 gr. cream of wheat, toilet pepper & done. Good for load work up too verified on the scale. If you get methodical about it they are almost as accurate as a dropper.
Posted By: jwall Re: Best reloading investments - 06/09/17
As you said, press & dies are a must.. i began w/RCBS Jr and used it 15-20 yrs w/o any hitches. After I got my 8mm RM and was playing with the 375 HH, I needed a press with more internal height. I found a Rock Chucker on sale and still use it.

There's nothing wrong w/the Jr, my son has it now.

Differing from some, I value an electronic powder scale very much. I used a Pact II for yrs. till it became erratic. I immediately replaced it, no questions asked. I definitely use a balance beam scale as check/balance.

The other thing I find invaluable is a SS caliper, either dial or digital. I have more confidence in the dial --just me.

As far as trimming, the cheap Lee case trimming cutter w/pilots and a drill is quick and easy.

What price do you put on a 'good' chronograph ? The best you can afford..

To me these are the most important.

Jerry
Originally Posted by JSTUART
In all honesty the best value for loading and mucking about with forearms has been a 6" mitutoyo digital caliper.


Be hard to call that a wrong answer! I use different tools at different times but some are always on the bench and this would be one. Can't imagine being a serious reloader without a good set of calipers.
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'



Been thinking about ordering one of those, I loath trimming brass.

I thought you had your wifey trained to trim brass... wink

DF



No, she doesn't like my shop, guns and gun parts everywhere, cleaning rods and chemicals, pounds and pounds of powder and shelves of bullets, cigar smoke [when not reloading of course] dead animals heads, icebox of cold beer, saddles and tack, scotch whiskey and even a Keith Black blown alcohol hemi 69' Plymouth RR on jack stands, you need a sack of nuts to even want to go in there. grin
Posted By: Trystan Re: Best reloading investments - 06/10/17
Originally Posted by Trystan
Chronograph

RCBS Case Master

Lee Neck Dies






Trystan



Forgot to mention the Lee powder thrower. It says it's the most accurate powder throw in the world and I believe it. Not bad for a $20 ish dollar tool



Trystan
Originally Posted by ELKiller
I hate these threads... they always result in charges to my credit card cry


Yame to but if you read them in time it can save you money in the long run
They have saved me a butt load over the years by not really purchasing stuff that I out grow or would have been a bad move
Posted By: nick Re: Best reloading investments - 06/11/17
Common sense, and good data
Posted By: 44mc Re: Best reloading investments - 06/11/17
any tool u need or want is allways the best
Posted By: M16 Re: Best reloading investments - 06/11/17
A lathe and a milling machine. Now I don't have to wait three days for a part to come in.
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Forgot one

4) Case prep 'centers'



Been thinking about ordering one of those, I loath trimming brass.

I thought you had your wifey trained to trim brass... wink

DF



No, she doesn't like my shop, guns and gun parts everywhere, cleaning rods and chemicals, pounds and pounds of powder and shelves of bullets, cigar smoke [when not reloading of course] dead animals heads, icebox of cold beer, saddles and tack, scotch whiskey and even a Keith Black blown alcohol hemi 69' Plymouth RR on jack stands, you need a sack of nuts to even want to go in there. grin

laugh

Sounds like an interesting place... grin

I like it already... cool

DF
Bought an Aussie O-Frame press used, for $50, 40 something years ago and bolted it to a slab of 6x2 hardwood which I G-Clamp to a bench.
Worn out several sets of priming tools and the affixed priming arm is a long ago forgotten memory.

Oil and tightening any leverage points is the key. The most important aspect is whether the die hole was bored straight before tapping.
After reviewing a lot of presses, there are actually some out of plumb.

The other item I like, is a digital caliper which I was given by Keith Herron, the Hornady Distributor in Oz quite some years back.

Although I have and have had all the trickle and thrower devises, I still use the same Tea Spoon and plastic cup I pinched from my mothers kitchen to hand weight every powder charge.
48 lbs of powder for $10 a pound from Pats before the 2012 Scool shooting
Posted By: 16bore Re: Best reloading investments - 06/18/17
Comparator and run-out gauge.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Somebody else was bragging on how much time the Frankford T&P Center saved on trimming and chamfering brass. Then I told him my Gracey trims and chamfers 15-20 a minute, and he was astonished.. (The Giraud may be even faster than the Gracey, since it has a more powerful motor. I dunno, having never timed one.) Many of the tools handloaders choose are indeed an upgrade from what they had before, but are only comparisons of two tools, not several.

A lot depends on your purpose in handloading. Are you after precision or speed? Or are you looking for the best compromise for both? I've tried several progressive presses, and haven't found one that consistently produces precise enough rifle ammo for my purposes--but one of the same models may be fine for somebody else. In fact I know they can be, because a friend uses one and is very happy. But he doesn't desire as much accuracy as I do.

Many people have told me how much faster their loading is with an electronic scale/measure, since they can be seating a bullet while the next charge is dropping. But I've done a bunch of time/motion handloading tests, and a correctly used mechanical measure beats any electronic scale I've tried in speed, by a wide margin, and with the right powders and techniques in precision as well. Plus, none of the popular electronic scales I've tested have been as accurate as a good balance scale, though properly used they're close enough for most handloading.

It also depends on how much you want to spend. I got a good deal on a used Gracey trimmer, but with shellholders it still cost twice as much as Frankford. It was worth it to me, however, because I do considerable trimming of some cartridges, often batches of several hundred.


John,
Respectfully a few thoughts...

If there is a difference in precision between these two I can't tell. Other than one is doing three things at one time AND still doing it in a fraction of the time. Though my Wilsons work perfectly at getting the Carpal Tunnel off...;-) (Allowing bad jokes to pass..) That being said it all depends on technique, simplistic but still repetitive technique, and the Giraud delivers +/- .001" with beautifully trimmed, chamfered, and deburred cases resulting. I should also note the machine is MUCH cheaper than the Wilson Tools. I hate having to reset them for each cartridge I shoot, hence, I wind up with a Wilson Micrometer Trimmer with Sinclair Base, for each cartridge, and a Wilson Ti plated cutter(w/originals held in reserve). $200 is an easy expenditure per trimmer... The .50 BMG Super Trimmer, when I bought it in 08', was about $550. I've been offered twice that for it from a couple of guys who process ammunition. The only difference from the standard unit that I am aware of is the 1/4th HP motor versus the standard 1/8 HP motor, and corresponding heavier frame, and the pulley system. Understand the market has dried up for the .50 BMG Super Trimmers per Mrs. Giraud. Looks like I have another collectors item. The only thing I have added that did not come from Giraud is a Forster Aluminum lock ring on each case holder. Their new website, which I believe went up last night, shows a similar lock ring...fwiw
[Linked Image]

My German Sartorius 64-1S Analytical Labratory Balance weighs to four places behind the decimal in grams and three in grains. Resolves down to .002 thousandths of a grain. Typical granule of H4350 is roughly .026 thousandths of a grain(from .020-.030 for outliers). Hence said H4350 stick makes a rather large impact on the readout. The problem can be information overload. Many choose the South Korean A&D 120i which goes to two digits behind the decimal in grains at a little more than half the price. I've run both and don't regret the Sartorius. A piece of tape over the third digit makes it a A&D 120i...

[Linked Image]

Very intelligent, and savvy, young Canuck who is making both the Sartorius and the A&D 120i into a dispensing analytical balances. Will likely become fiscally comfortable in the process within reason. Has also come up with his own "two box chronograph" for better or worse... www.autotrickler.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ngvVDS9kc

Hope it makes for interesting viewing...

It is amazing

Best Regards, Matt.
Posted By: 16bore Re: Best reloading investments - 06/20/17
Holy smokes do I love factory ammo....that's a lot of stuff.
Matt in VA... that's some serious precision you're talking there! Certainly far more than I "need" in my reloading ops, but if it makes you happy, more power to ya!

I have spent a good half hour reading thru this thread this morning. Partly for plain old interest sake, but also because I'm getting ready to tool up my reloading operation after several years of (mostly) downtime. This past fall I purchased a shack from Home Depot, which I had installed in my back yard, and I've been puttering around getting it insulated and wired for 110 AC, and now that it's got air conditioning I'm starting to work on the shelves, benches, etc, to set up my various presses and tools to get back to regular reloading and hand loading.

So I'm looking at this thread with keen self-interest. What new tools do I "need" to get my shop up and running to where I want it to be? Seems I'll probably be buying a WFT case trimmer, as I'm dissatisfied with the various trimmers I've tried so far (thanks for the explication of differences between Gracie and the WFT, JB!). And I definitely need new runout/comparator equipment. Curiously, I've determined in the sporadic reloading sessions I've had since 2013 that my electronic powder dispensers (yes, plural... I've tried PACT and Lyman, both) are not what I need, at all... and I've gone back to my old green RCBS powder thrower, although I'm keeping the PACT electronic scale.

Thankfully, I'm happy with my press selection. The Redding T7 is the best rifle ammunition press in existence, IMHO, and will be permanently mounted on the bench. Likewise, Dillon's 650 is my production press par excellence for all but 9mm, which is the caliber de las casa at my house, and we go through it like sch!t thru a goose, so it has its own dedicated Dillon Square Deal press. I still use my Lee Classic Turret press for quick loading of short runs of pistol ammo as needed. It's a quick-change marvel, once you invest in the turrets and Lee dies, which was cheap and easy when I lived down the road from the Lee factory in Hartford, WI. An old MEC Gabber 12-gauge rounds out the presses on my bench.

But the other tools, as I said, are going to be revamped considerably. Which will be a lot easier to make decisions on after reading this thread. So thanks, boys.
Posted By: horse1 Re: Best reloading investments - 06/21/17
Sharpie pens

Ziplock freezer bags

Dillon tumbler

Quickload

Labradar

Co-Ax press

Harrell's powder thrower

Dillon Super Swage

Dillon 550

Akrobins
Pretty bad ass.

Posted By: akjeff Re: Best reloading investments - 07/16/17
1.) Co-Ax Press
2.) Powder measure/thrower
3.) Chronographs
4.) Calipers and micrometers
5.) The Internet (have picked up a lot of helpful tips/tricks that have sped up/simplified my reloading via the web that I otherwise would have never learned, or taken years to do so)

Jeff
Posted By: Remy Re: Best reloading investments - 07/16/17
Components, I listened to the old guys saying "buy it cheap stack it deep" and I am still shooting rounds of 30-06 I put together for less than 6 dollars a box of twenty.
Posted By: cath8r Re: Best reloading investments - 07/18/17
Didn't read all the replies but rcbs collet bullet puller is up there for me!
Posted By: Tejano Re: Best reloading investments - 07/19/17
Lee collet die has made things simpler for me no sorting or nothing other than trim and load and usually they are as good as the case will get. Usually no need to even check for run out unless the loads just won't shoot which hasn't happened so far.

Yes bullet puller has prevented me from shooting mistake loads and possibly saved my hide by making it easy to dismantle the bad boys.
It's a close call with several other tools, but I have to say my Stoney Point/Hornady comparator and case gauge. They "educated" me on my reloading techniques more than anything else.

Ok, maybe my Custom Chrono I bought 35 years ago taught me at least as much........

Casey
Posted By: 1minute Re: Best reloading investments - 07/20/17
If it's truly an investment, I'd say train loads of powder and brass. Prices seem to be outrunning inflation.
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by bangeye
But probably the best value for the $$ bought a set of Lee powder scoops 2nd hand for $4. Very handy and I got rid of my powder measure. Once you get the hang of it you can scoop very consistent charges certainly as consistent as a powder measure probably better..

MAYBE that depends on the powders you use. My experience was just the opposite. I use more 'large extruded' powders than any other. I threw my Lee dippers in the trash.

Jerry

I have never used or trusted scoops. Just me.

DF

Dippers are convenient to measure powder quickly with a scale. Use an appropriate volume dipper to scoop most of the charge into the powder pan, then trickle the last few grains. Of course, the other quick method is to throw charges with a powder measure.

As for the subject of this thread, I'd add a set of check weights to the list of useful items worth their cost. You can check your scale over the entire range of measurements with them.
Posted By: Zerk Re: Best reloading investments - 07/23/17
Originally Posted by Trystan
Originally Posted by Trystan
Chronograph

RCBS Case Master

Lee Neck Dies






Trystan



Forgot to mention the Lee powder thrower. It says it's the most accurate powder throw in the world and I believe it. Not bad for a $20 ish dollar tool



Trystan

I returned mine. At the price I had intended to have multiple set up.

I havn't implemented it yet, but I bought a 2nd RCBS with the quick change dials. Plan is to get more for various loads. I hate set up.



Best buy was cheap Lymann digital scale. I hate balance beams. To slow. Use a magnigying glass to decide where it is at.


electric trimmer will probably be next.

Funny, it is a polarizing topic. Some guys hate progress. It is a time vs money thing, are you loading for accuracy or to save money?

I bought bullet comparator recently. Not sure. Measuring ballsitc tip 58 grain for my 243, was little funny with callipers. But at my range, probably doesn't mater. On the fence. But it was cheap. If I had a cleaner table and more room for junk, maybe I would grab it every time I need to measure.
Truly best investment probably is cheap 223 brass combined with Lee Collet dies.

Load them 5x then pitch them when they need to be trimmed. Buy more brass really cheap. Repeat.
Best for me was the Wilson bench dies and arbor press. Second was high end Redding dies.
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