Which one, in 7.62x39, is most accurate with Russian steeel case ammo. Specifically soft point or hollow point loads that actually show good expansion in gel. Like Tula 154gr SP, 124gr SP or 124gr HP 8M3.

I'm looking for a reasonably accurate, cheap to shoot range toy that could also be used in a pinch for deer or hogs to 150 yards.

Quality wise, I've read that a good CZ 527 is slightly better than a Howa. But that a bad CZ 527 is MUCH worse than a Howa. So I'd only buy a CZ that I could handle and examine first

I have four 527s, none in Russian Short, though. All four shoot well enough to shoot small varmints with. I have heard of issues with stocks splitting on some 527s, IF the bedding is off a bit. I have no reason to doubt that, as the action is quite small for that cartridge.

I've owned four Howa rifles, too, though none were in the new Mini. All of them were more than adequate for killing deer or prairie dogs (the .223). Frankly, I like the CZs better, but in this case, I think the Howa is a bit stouter, as the action is shortened, but not reduced in diameter.

Both are excellent rifles, but I think the CZs are bit more refined.

Had my 527 carbine in the Ruski short since 2004 and it has been most satisfactory.

not a gun writer, and I haven't shot the Howa.
But here is my first time taking out the 527 to sight it in.
There are 2 groups on here at 100 yards with cheap ammo.
I didn't want to walk back to tape over the first. but you can see the difference with 4 clicks up and 4 clicks to the left.
also. you can use factory tikka rings on the 527 instead of getting CZ rings which are way too high.

Here are the rings. CZ vs tikka rings.

Another candidate is the Zastava 799 mini mauser. My .223 is very accurate, but I haven't owned one in 7.62x39. Zastava should know their way around the 7.62x39

Comparing CZ with Howa is like comparing BMW and Kia. Both will get you there but one is more reliable and has better engineering and craftsmanship and the other is cheapo Asian make. The choice is yours.

One problem I had with the Howa Mini was that the mag release was placed such that it was very easy to drop the mag by mistake. I did exactly that the first time I picked it up and later found that replacement mags were not available here in Canada. I promptly sold it and bought a CZ. The CZ has a better mag release but a hinged BDL style would be a better system for both rifles.

Been waiting and hoping for either a floorplate version or even a blind box version of the Howa, but suspect it's vaporware. DMs simplify production and cut costs, and I suspect are more popular with tactically-minded modern shooters. The CZ is better looking and the mags are nice metal ones, not plastic. The Howa's action is forged, a rarity these days, but I'm not wild about the bottom "metal", which of course, ain't. The hinged floorplate on full-sized ones is AL-U-minny-um, but of good quality and functions perfectly.

Also been thinking about a 527 in 6.5 Grendel, but have only seen one on GB, and my local guy checked his suppliers to no avail. The 7.62 would be okay for deer, but 6.5 reaches out a bit better. They'll show eventually.

Don't have a Howa but did considerate it in 6.5 Grendel......but got a CZ 6.5 Grendel instead (they released a few to select distributors in July and the next batch should be released soon - according to CZ). So far I really like the rifle and the cartridge - however, like most, I do not like the extended magazine but the accuracy and weight are hard to beat FWIW.

PennDog

Yup, been looking at those a good bit myself, but have finally (I hope) learned to avoid settling for stuff that's almost what I want, and then sending them down the road when I get second thoughts. One of the mini-mausers would do, but the odds on the wood lottery on those are pretty stiff.

Because of my experiences with this one thus far I'm actually thinking of getting another one for a starter gun for my great nephew.....the 6.5 Grendel seems just about perfect in the 527 and for a deer/varmit rifle!

PennDog

Howa.




Dave

Calling Howa rifles cheap Asian made? Sounds like someone who has never owned a Howa.

Howa ya doin', you buttfaaaahkinfoolio??

I'd prefer the CZ, but I don't have one of their 527s...

that being said, I have three of the Howa Minis....

and there are certainly NO Flies on that rifle at all...

I have a CZ 527 in 7.62X39. It is extremely accurate (well under 1 MOA) with the 122 gr HP wolf steel case ammo. Next in line in accuracy is with 123 SP Russian ammo. Poorest accuracy (about 2.5 MOA) is with Wolf steel case 154 gr. SP.

I have killed several medium sized deer with the Wolf 154 grain SP ammo. Died quite quickly. No shots were beyond 125 yards or so. I shot them from tree stands where I normally archery hunt.

The only thing I dont like about my 527 is the box magazine is a single stack which extends below the stock. It extends out at exactly the balance point of the rifle, which makes it somewhat unhandy to carry in one hand. This is a shame, as it is a very light handy rifle, with the fixed 4X Weaver I have on it.

Best,

Kevin

Exactly my experience with a Carbine I bought when they first came out. Texas whitetail, blackbuck and hogs have dropped with that combo. I carry mine by the scope so the extended mag is not an issue.

Well, Mr. Enabler, I blundered into one on GB tonight and pulled the lever on it.

All your fault.

Do they make a smaller mag?

They do make a smaller magazine. You might have to grind some of the side rails that are part of the trigger guard off to use it without having to buy a new trigger guard assembly. Available for the .223, not sure about other calibers.

Like EdM suggested, the scope rings are pretty high so you can use the scope as a luggage handle.

Jack

Talley and Leupold both make rings, but I don't know if they're any lower. Have to check how high the handle goes too. On the .22s, it's pretty high. The Grendel can use a bit more scope than the 7.62, so if it's going to be high up anyway, I might as well put some glass up front. A 6x36 was my first thought.

The Howa uses 700 bases. Another reason they are wonderous.





Dave

Yes, I know.

Thankfully, that's the only 700 thing it uses.

You'll not find nirvana in a CZ.



Dave

Don't forget the set trigger in the CZ.Not to useful hunting,but nice from the bench.

Do they still have those?




Clark

Set trigger?
Mine has it.

We'll see. I like a little blued steel and walnut once in a while. Goes well with my Filson, Bean boots, and Stormy Kromer.

The more I look into the Grendel, the better it seems. Trajectory out to 300 is about the same as my .308, energy about like a .243, and it burns maybe 30gr of powder.

[quote=deflave]Do they still have those?




Clark[/quoute
Standard issue as far as I know.

I actually started another thread about bases for the mini, then saw this. I know the Howa 1500 uses the same base as the M700 Rem, is this true for the Howa Mini as well? I cannot find bases listed for the mini.

I dang near bought a Howa Grendel when they were first released, but something else came along. From what I've read since on the Grendel website between the two the CZ will out shoot the Howa, but it takes several rds before the bbl settles down and shoots nice groups. You know the internet, but most guys I saw post reviews said the Howa shot around MOA. That won't cut the mustard for what I'd want one for. That case should print tiny groups. Is either rifle mag length challenged for this cartridge?

Howa if you are looking for synthetic and blued rifle...

CZ if you are looking for tradition Wood and Blued...

Okay, got a couple of points to make about the CZ, now that I have one:

Fit and finish are very good, altough the stock could have had its pores filled a tiny bit better. Still, it's at least as well done overall as my new Number 1, the last blue and walnut rifle I bought new. The wood's not fancy, but is nice, and the checkering doesn't have any flaws as far as I can see. The sculpted receiver looks very classy, and the safety and bolt release are nice machined steel parts, not bent sheet metal. If there's any al-U-minny-um or plastic anywhere, I've not found it.

As expected, the magazine's a pain. I'd much rather stuff them in from the top. It's not likely to fall out by accident, though as the release isn't sticking out and is pretty tight. Being true CRF, it only feeds from the mag, and the old trick of pressing in on the extractor so it will close on a round in the chamber doesn't work, on mine anyway.

The factory rings (Warne) are a bit high for an ordinary scope, but a good fit for the Tract I mounted. Lower rings combined with some scopes might require a different bolt handle. Modified bolt handles can be had from Jim Calhoun and maybe elsewhere. Changing one takes seconds.

Bolt take-down is similar to Howa's, except the bolt handle comes loose and compared to a full-sized Howa anyway, it requires less effort.

The set trigger came adjusted for about the same weight as the unset. There's a bit of creep unset, but not too much. Set, the trigger has a lot of after-travel. I think I'll follow Mule Deer's example and adjust the set function out. I'd prefer the Howa two-stage, no doubt.

I still might pick up a Howa at some point, especially the 5-shot, but now that Ruger has Americans that use Mini14 mags, that's an option too for some cartridges, anyway.

Every rifle is a rule unto itself. Just because one is accurate with a given ammo doesn't mean the next will shoot it well. You can take rifles with consecutive serial #s -- made in the same plant and on the very same day -- and it's likely they'll show individual and distinctly different preferences for ammo.

How are the CZ's shooting ?

Anybody shooting the 6.5 grendel Howa ?

My CZ didn't care much for the Hornady SST factory stuff, but handloads with 129gr ABLRs seated out as far as the mag allows were much better. Even with the factory stuff, smacking my plastic flipper at 300 was easy, though. Only mod I did was to increase the float just a bit. Once I decided on my load, I swapped out the Tekoa for a Mark AR Mod1 1.5-4 with the green dot. Lost about half a pound and improved handling. Been carrying it around in the woods and it's dandy for that. Only quibble is the need to feed all rounds from the magazine.

Found a guy online that will cut the trigger guard and the magazines to make them fit flush. Costs about a C-note. He paints the guard instead of blueing it though. Much cheaper than trying to use CZ parts on your own.

Next year I want to try the 100gr TTSXs, which can be pushed pretty fast, and maybe the 95gr Vmaxes, but this is primarily a woods gun, so I don't plan to use it like a .223.

Thanks !

I wish CZ would offer a heavy barrel .

I put together a nice little Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel for off season coyotes and possibly deer. It has turned out to be quite accurate shooting near 1" groups at 200 yards. I thinkl it will do betteras the trigger was pretty heavy out of the box and my trigger finger got bit by the saw a few weeks ago and it still in bandages.



I dislike the long mag hanging down but that is an easy fix, directions are over at 6.5Grendel.com and will shorten or make a new mag release.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?15155-Modified-4-round-flush-mag

erich ,

Nice rifle , I'm debating whether to build a6br and single load it or 6x47 or 6.5x47 Lapua on a 700 adl or just buy a Grendel .
I want something with very low recoil and blast accurate on steel out to 600-700 yards so I'm liking the little Grendel . Plus still be able to send a 120-140gr. bullet through a pigs shoulder .

Nice looking rifle you built - did you start from a bare action ?

Are the howa actions known for being straight with no smith work ?

No I bought a barreled action from Brownell. They had a sale on them a while back

K