Some interesting tid bits when looking at the new Speer reloading data. Looks like there is at least new bullets coming out in 224, 6.5mm, 277 and 308 and maybe more. In the 6.5 Creedmoor section they list a new 140 gr bullet with a claimed b.c. of .571. A sleek bonded core bullet sounds pretty interesting to me.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/reloading/rifle


PS the 35 Whelen finally gets some real data from them too now.......

They list a 308 168 gr with a claimed b.c. of .572 and a 150 gr at .503.

Sounds interesting - wonder if we’ll ever see them?

PennDog

Wow. That’s great to see Speer getting back into the game.

That 35 Whelen data is pretty serious.

I guess that's good news. I wish they hadn't discontinued the .327 115 grain Gold Dot. They still catalog the 100 grain, but haven't made any in years.

The .375 RUM and the 285 grain Grand Slam loading info looks mighty interesting.

In the past Speer BC estimates were a bit....optimistic. So I wouldn't trust their listed BC numbers.

That being said, I really like the way their bullets perform on game, and am happy to see them getting with the program. Hopefully these Gold Dots will be readily available and not exist only in theory, like some of their more recent offerings.

ATK almost completely destroyed them so I hope they come back in a serious way, they were my go to bullets before they went off the rails and I ended up switching to Nosler mostly.

With the Whelen they list some new powders tat get some serious speed, 4 loads with their 220 that break 2740 fps comfortably and one even at 2826 fps. With the 250's 3 loads over 2600 fps and one of them even listed at 2709 fps!

https://www.speer-ammo.com/-/media/9fd0199f4b1046ceb34bd707f84d5af8.pdf

Some really decent options.

Absolutely no interest here until I hear of their performance, and more important the dedication to keep making them.
Not interested in developing loads for a bullet that is discontinued.

I would think that we've already heard of their performance, for a few years now. And it's been very good actually.

Oh yeah, it's called the Fusion bullet, loaded by Federal in factory ammo.

Wasn't that the Deep Shock, a!so?
Pretty hard to but those around here.

First was the Deep Shock line, introduced with much fanfare, and then dropped. Then there was the Deep Curl line of bullets, touted to replace the Hot Core line, then summarily dropped.

Count me amount the “wait and see” crowd.

Different management, ATK was in charge if I remember correctly when all those things happened.

As DD says they've been around for a while in loaded ammo and seem to have a good track record on game. I know that a lot of ballistic testing has been done for the .223 version because it's defensive ammo, gets used by LE, and performs well in that context.

Deep Shok were a completely different line of bullets, primarily made as normal cup-n-core with better heel locks and stiff jackets midway down the bullet. In the 243-90 grain they are absolute dominant deer killers.

Deep Curl, then Fusion, now to include Gold Dot, rifle bullets are made by electro-chemically bonding the jacket to the core. Works very well also in the 243-95 grain and the 223-64 grain.

I would assume that most know the 223 version Gold Dots have been in production under that actual label for a few years now in 55, 64, and 75 grain bullets. They are also stone-cold deer killers, but I think are issued under a law-enforcement moniker.

Great to see data on the 338 win mag and RL 16, 23, AND 26.
It confirms my own data that I was using.

Yea, I like the new RL data in several of the calibers and the heavy .22 bullet caught my eye, will be interesting to see if that BC is accurate coupled with bonded bullet performance.

“Personal protection rifle bullets?!” That’s laughably idiotic! I’m very glad that Speer might finally be doing things for handloaders again. They have been my first choice for most things for a long time. That marketing schtick just has to go, though.

Thanks for the link, Gerry! I've been looking for several of these powders in several of these cartridges, like CFE in the Whelen, and R-26 in 30-06.

I used a 64 Fusion from RMR in a 223 bolt gun loaded to 5.56 pressure with CFE (Fed 205 and 27.5gr in Win brass) this year to kill a big-bodied 4x3 Muley. Angling away at about 70 yds. Bullet impacted middle of ribs and angled through, destroying the top of the heart and exiting through the center of the off-side shoulder. Perfect performance. Buck was walking at the shot, and managed a few more steps before dropping.

Seems like basically a copy and paste of their pistol bullets by the same name.

I will try some of the 223 55 grainers in my 22-250. I have been wanting a tough bullet that will stabilize in a 12 twist.

I never got a Speer bullet to shoot decently. Yeah they were tight enough to shoot minute-of-moose, but not enough to give me the warm fuzzies. Maybe it's just the HC line.

Yes indeed. It looks like they have got some modern load data for the old .257 Roberts as well.

The most accurate 150 grain 30-06 load I ever had was with the Speer 150 grain HC Spitzer...the load was 60 grains of WW760 in Win brass and CCI 200 Primers...the rifle a Zastava (INTERARMS Mark 10) Mauser.

Back in the day, it was actually my favorite chuck hunting round. The bullet was an excellent deer killer also, but shots were never more than 100 yards or so, on deer that is..... I lost interest in 760 for some reason, probably because it is supposed to be very temp sensitive.....but I remain a little skeptical on that claim.

All of the Fusion loaded ammo I have seen uses a bullet with a cannelure. The pictures of the Gold Dot bullets I looked at on the Speer Website don't have a cannelure. Where did you get your info?

An old post:

Speer Gold Dot and Federal Fusion are identically constructed. They are same/same. Speer Good Dot rifle bullets have a cannelure. .

Here's a link to a post with some pretty pictures of the Speer Fusion and Gold Dots in various weights in the 223 chambering that have been out for awhile.

http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/speer-75gr-gold-dot-223

If you search for Gold Dot 308 150 168 you will also see pictures of those bullets loaded that clearly show a cannelure.


I don't know if that means that all of Speer's new announcement Gold Dot Rifle bullets will have cannelures or not.

Gotcha. This photo and several others left me wondering.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/-/media/9fd0199f4b1046ceb34bd707f84d5af8.pdf

The 64 gr. Nosler bonded solid base shoots pretty good {about 1"} out of my 12 twist .22-250.

Thanks DD, So it looks like they are more or less Federal Fusion bullets then.

Form, If my memory serves me correctly aren't you a fan of these bullets on game animals?

Yes, Formi likes the 62 Fusion in the 223 for deer.

The 62 and 75 are both pretty stiff, great for deer.
The 55 was originally developed for SBR, so isn't nearly as tough due to a thinner jacket.

The 6.5-120 is designed for the lower velocities of the Grendel, while the 140 is for the Creedmoor.

The 308-150 is excellent on deer also, from my experience.

I'd like to get a hold of the 150 Blackout and use it in reduced loads from an -06 just for fun.

Really! I have some of those Nosler bonded bullets. I'll roll up a few and see what happens. My 22-250 did not like 55 grain TTSX, but they are about a tenth of an inch longer, so maybe I'll get lucky. What's your elevation?

That 62 grain 223 Fusion load is pure poison on our smaller coastal deer.

If it’s like the Grand Slam, you’ll see them, get them, work you up a good load & then, POOF!, they’ll disappear.

About 2,000 ft.. I'm loading them over CFE .223. 34 gr's of it if memory serves.

I have some CFE 223 as well. Thanks for the info!

Excellent info, thanks. I want to try the 140's in my 260 Rem and my Wife's 6.5x55. There is data for both the 308 Win and 300 WM with the 168 gr GD so it must be a bit tougher bullet, it will be on the list to try when I buy either a 30-06 or 300 WSM this year.

I have some 180 gr. .308" Deep Curls and haven't got them to shoot well yet using Speer's powder choices. This if from a couple of accurate .30'06s.

not doubting you, Joe, just offering another data point:

I stocked up on 120gr .257 Deep Curls, as they were very accurate in several Bob's and one 25/06. I then I stocked up up on some 165gr 30cal and 150gr 277cal Deep Curls when Midway had them on sale. They are very accurate in a coupe of 06's,a 300 Savage and several 270s. Terminal performance on many deer and hogs has been outstanding.

I think the Deep Curls are great bullets and was most disappointed when Speer suddenly discontinued them. My understanding is that there were issues with pressure spikes. I am hoping that the new Gold Dot bullets are of similar design and performance, but with the pressure issues solved. None the less, I will wait a while to make sure Speer is serious this time before I take the plunge and try some.

PS: Also came across some old 90gr 243 Deep Shock bullets and they have been outstanding in a couple of 243s. Hope Speer gets it right this time!

They are coming out with a new reloading manual too. I couldn't believe it when I saw it on the MidSouth shooting supply website. It's not in stock yet, either is the new Western powders manual, but I'm glad to see some activity from Speer. They have been withering on the vine for too long.

I’ll bet ol’ Vernon has been rotating in his grave.

62gr, 64gr, and 75gr Speer Gold Dots/Federal Fusions are excellent performers on animals, and there is nothing in the US that I wouldn't hunt with a 75gr Gold Dot (or 62/64gr....).

You must have never killed any big bears in tight.

And here is where I'm going to continue to assert something unpopular but difficult to refute:

If you have to make a close shot on a bear, you are going to have to shoot for the CNS. A 22cf with good bullets like the Fusions/Gold Dots is going to give you the penetration you need to put the bear down right there IF you can make the shot. This is also true with bigger calibers, as a near-miss with them is going to be just as ineffective as a near-miss with a 22cf. But the ability to place a 22cf perfectly is more easily had, because recoil and noise are so much less than typical big bear cartridges. And a second shot is more quickly applied as well.

I'll happily face off against the average Fire member shooting at a 3-inch circle at 20yds, me with a 22 cf and you with whatever "big bear stopper" you prefer. Most hits in 4 seconds wins.

Shooting at big bears in close is a low-percentage proposition for most of us, I seriously suspect, and any advantage I can have in that situation, I want.

Thanks for sharing your experience with them, I'm excited to try them in the cartridges I have of course. Appreciate your input here.

I wish they would bring back the 6.5 120 Hotcore. That was my go-to bullet in my 260. My stash is running low.

Their 165 Hot Cor shoots well in Dad's old Model 100 (think I loaded them with RL 15).
The same bullet with 3031 shoots pretty awesome (around 2") with my iron sighted, sewer piped Krag.
I've got a box of 7mm 160 Grand Slams I picked up for a song years ago, but never tried them in the #1 7mm Mauser.
I guess I need to get on their website and dig around a bit. I've not looked on there in years.

Sounded like he was guessing. Good call out.

Do you not think that the 75 Gold Dot would penetrate well enough to get to a bear's nervous system, or what?

It sure is! A 250 gr Hot Core at 2700+ is really tryin' to reach the 9.3X62.

Ted

Sarcasm....

It is still listed on their webpage. I didn't know it had been discontinued.

Amazing in this day and age with the number and popularity of the 6.5mm cartridges that Speer still only offer three bullet choices in .264..............or two if the 120gn has been discontinued.

Huntnshoot I have to respectfully disagree with this post. Fortunately I have never found myself in this position, bit if I did I would find myself taking a shoulder shot to break that bear down allowing time to get in a finisher. CNS while certainly effective is just too small of a target IMO. And I do not trust a 22 cal to break that shoulder.

Certainly with the better premium bullets we have today I would not argue that smaller calibers with lighter bullets have improved their effectiveness on game. But for the task of shutting down an angry large bear at close range IMO, a 30 06 with 200 Nosler Partitions is where I want to be as a minimum.YMMV.