Soon I'll have a Kimber 84L that I won't need. I've always wanted a .338-06 so I may have it re-barreled.

For those that have them, which did you go with and why?

I don’t have one, but, it is an extremely efficient round. Giving near .338 WM performance, and exceeding 338 Federal performance. You have a huge source of readily available brass. The “only” potential negative,is not factory loaded....a non-issue for the handloader. memtb

I went from a 338 Federal to the 338 RCM. Love it. The RCM is very comparable to the 338-06. I went with the Ruger because I liked the compact rifle design.

I started out with a Ruger No. 1-B that had been rebarreled to .338-06, and sold it here on the campfire after I acquired a No. 1-S in 9.3x74R. I have had two "improved" versions of the .338-06, and still have one: a beautiful custom built on a Mark X action. I basically got into the genre after I decided to move all of my hard-kicking "magnum" big game rifles along. Now that Norma and Weatherby sell brass, reloading has become routine. All of my rifles have shot very well and recoil is pretty much on a par with my .30-06s. I reckon that the custom .338-06 will be one of the last, if not the last, to go when my wife and kids decide that I have reached senility.

I have the AI version and really like it especially loaded with the 160 TTSX..I need to hunt it more often only killed two deer with it but neither took a second step.

I had a 30-06 that was not shooting very well.Sent it back to Remington for warranty repairs.After five months of waiting,I got it back.They replaced the barrel and the receiver.It shot a little better,but was about an 1 1/2" gun.I decided to send it to JES and rebore it to a 338-06.It shoots purty dang good now.200gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and Accubond are what I shoot in it.I can easily get 2800fps with several powders.210gr Partitions run around 2700fps. I think it will make quite a thumper.It cost me $250 for the rebore job with return shipping.I went with the five groove on mine.There and back was only two weeks.If you call,leave a message and Jesse will call you back.Here's some of my groups.

Fun round but may be too much in the Kimber with 225's and up. I had a 338 Fed in the Montana and it punched me HARD in the cheekbone every time I fired it.

Go for it, you will not be disappointed. Disclaimer: it is not a Creed.

I have had five, with my final and last one being finished right now.

Rem 700, traded for a Pre-64
Rem 7600, sold as it was built for my Dad who cannot handle the recoil anymore.
Springfield action, that I did not like
VZ24 that I foolishly sold
Model 70 Classic that a good friend wanted to buy

Current build is a Model 70 stainless classic, #3 shilen, 1:9 twist, McMillan edge stock.

Have used them on antelope to elk with no issues. 160gr if speed is your need. Up to what, 300gr? I really like the 200-210gr range, but a 180 or 225 is not a wrong choice.

With all of that being said, a 30-06 would be a more practical, mundane, common sense approach. But loonies do not comprehend that thought process

Another great thing is it's easy to make 338-06 from 30-06 brass with one pass through the resizing die.I've been using once fired brass bought from member crod1972.Zero issues making it.

Do it, that might push me to finally send one to JES

I think you should go with the .338 Sherman...just because I can then "live vicariously through your experimenting", ha. I tried to work with a necked up .280 back when you could (well, I could not find any) not find .280 in nothing but the nickeled cases. I tried fireforming with COW, then cotton balls, all over pistol powder. The necks split or the nickel flaked off at the shoulder/neck junction. If the shoulder formed right, the mouths of the case would be uneven, flowed too much to one side. I couldn't get good velocities either ( I used the 200 NBT) At the time, I needed the .280 head stamp, or I would have tried .270 brass, etc. Plus, I had a couple more projects going, on top of some demon possessed ( not really, they were just being toots!) staff. I ended up trading that rifle to my smith for some work to do on a .404 Jeffry Model 98 I had him build for me. I used the 35 Whelen AI for 20+ years and I just like the looks of the Improved case, but nothing wrong with a standard 338/06...especially with todays new powders. Go for it Pard! Lots of choices...

I had a 338-06 and really liked the cartridge. I was shooting 225 ABs and Partitions and built on a Savage 110. If I had to do over I'd probably go with 180s and 200s. In the 84L platform that thing is really going to have some abrupt recoil. My 338 Fed in an 84M is rather snappy. Unless I wanted to shoot a 338 cal bullet farther, I'd stick to the 338 Fed in a lighter rifle. It has enough oomph to put 338 bullets through critters big and small. However, with the 338-06 you can always moderate the loads and dial the 160s back to 3000-3100 and go kill about anything. That little 338 cal 160 TTSX hitting critters at 3000 fps is rather impressive. But know that they will ruin a lot of meat if shot in close. Edit: now that I think about it, an 84L in 338-06 shooting those 160s, perhaps 185s, would really be quite cool.

The 338-06 is a good cartridge. It gets you close to the 333 Jeffery, 318 Westley Richards, and other classic medium bores.

I enjoyed studying it, loading for it, and experimenting with it, but not being able to buy factory ammo in a pinch made it a non-starter for me. I'd go 338 WM today.


Okie John

I've had a couple of rifles in 338/06 and killed musk oxen, bison and elk with them. Shot 210 gr Partitions and 225 gr Hornady bullets primarily along with 250 gr Noslers. Fun cartridge, was effective but didn't do anything a standard 30/06 wouldn't do with 200 or 220 grain bullets.

Thanks for all the replies, especially this one mudhen, I didn't realize anyone made .338-06 brass.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the A-Square cartridge. Doesn't seem like much of a difference in case capacity, I'll probably just go with the plain old '06 version.

For those who've pointed out the snappiness of this cartridge in an 84L, I had considered that and will most likely go with a thicker barrel contour than the Kimber factory contour to put a little more weight up front. That, and probably a 20-oz. scope.



PS.....Anyone know if the AI version could be resized in a .280 AI neck sizer bushing die, with the right bushings?

I have made many of them, and owned 4 of them myself. At this time I have no 338 caliber rifles and the 338-06 is the only one I can say I miss.
It is a wonderful round.

Far more power then you'd need for deer and antelope, yet it works fine for such game and doesn't blast much meat. I like that. It's also one of the best elk-moose-bear rounds you can get. Kills very well, makes a good size hole even when bone is hit, and doesn't kick like the 338 mag. I don't mind the recoil of a 338 mag, but I see no reason to have it if I can get what I want from the 338-06.

When making that comparison it's important to not just look at velocity at a give bullet weight, but also to look at the fact that the 338-06 holds 2 more rounds in it's magazine, can get top performance from 2-3 inches less barrel, can weight less then it's magnum counterpart and works in a standard action with little or no modification.

There is just nothing to not like.........at least that's the way I see the round.

I had one done by JES on a kimber 84L and I would do it again.

I bought Ruger 338 RCM,s LH and a RH . When Ruger came out with the cartridge they made a LH 20" and it was a dream come true for a leftie. Liked it so well bought a 20" SS Synthetic RH for my wife.

Pretty much the same as the 338 06 Both of mine are very accurate and easy to shoot.

Shoot 225 Gr Nosler Partitions or Accubonds with 61 Gr of RL 17 in both around 2600 FPS.

Had one. Killed some stuff with it. Didn't see any difference between the 338-06 and a 30-06.

Just load 200 grain Partitions in a 30-06 and you'll have a 338-06 with easier to find ammo.

Though I certainly understand the appeal of wanting to build a 338-06 to try it out!

I had one of the Weatherbys. As I recall I bought it FTF from a guy in Rapid who posted it on here. I loved the rifle, for me, the cartridge was ok. I was a fledgling reloader, the webs were stretching on my cases and I just didn't feel like messing with it any longer. Once I added a .300 and a .375 to the stable, I had no reason to keep it. I hope your experience is better.

I have a 30-06 in the safe destined to be a 338-06. Mine is a Montana Rifle Co rifle and I want it to weigh 8 lbs all up. Recoil in an 84L, even with heavier barrel contour and 20 oz SHV (G) will be stout with max loads.

I'd like to know how yours turns out - love the Montana platform.

Looks like it might work, but the OAL might need to be trimmed. Specs for the .280 AI show a case length of 2.525", while the case length of cases fired in my rifle runs 2.511".

My rifle is actually chambered for the .338 Howell, and the parent cartridge is the .280 Remington. When I received the rifle from Ken, he gave me some Lake City .30-06 brass that had been fire-formed in the rifle and resized in the RCBS dies, but the chamber was a little tight. After consulting with my gunsmith, I took his suggestion and just fire formed factory Norma .338-06 brass in my chamber. It has worked fine for me, and the head stamp is "more correct" .

BTW: look at the 210 gr Swift Scirocco II for your peeshooter.

The 338-06 A-Square is the same thing as 338-06.A-Square is who made it a factory cartridge.

szihn - How close would you rate the 338 Federal to the 338-06 for elk-moose-bear. Would the 338 Federal do well in a 20/21 inch barrel in your opinion? Would you say the 8x57 loaded to the european ammo standards closer to the 338 Federal or the 338-06 (or to neither)? I always considered all would fall in the 338 WM area but in a closer range. I think this - but I don't have experience to back it up and thus thinking out load here.

Anybody wanting to do a Kimber rechamber I have a 30-06 barrel off an 84L sale or trade.Just FYI

Nope.

Quit thinking and do it Smoke, I bought a rusted bore pre-64 270 WCF, chit factory stock to boot, bought a Pacific Research stock from Jorge, sent the rifle to JES for a re-bore and chamber to 338-06, $825 bucks all up later I had a pinwheel 338-06 that fires 210 gr NPT's at 2800 fps with H-380, necked up W-W 30-06 brass is king, the rifle wears a 2.5-8 Leupold in dual dovetail rings and bases, may weigh 8lbs all up, a hell of a hunting rifle on the cheap.

I've read a lot of good about the 210 NPT's on these pages, I've never hit anything but a few deer and small pigs, the outcome is/was of no concern, 100% BOOM flops so far, it may even work on elk out to a long 400 yards, certainly light enough to pack up, across, and back down an elk mountain.

SierraHunter, your question is well founded and I am sure many other ask the same thing in their minds, but I believe most American shooters get focused on the ballistic energy, trajectories and cavitation of a specific rounds and seem to forget the real world that we'll carry the guns in.

What I mean by that is that the wound size of any round is measured in 2 basic factors. Penetration and cavitation. That's really all there is. "Shock" is a function of cavitation and the faster that cavity is made the greater the shock the bullet will deliver. (note: Great shock in the rear of the lungs will not be as effective as less shock in the mid lung and the top of the heart, so even that is a specter we'll chase for many years and never really get a grip on it 100%)

So when I am asked about the effectiveness of rounds, one to another, the 1st thing I would point out is the comparisons need to be made with identical bullets, or bullets as close to each other in weight and CONSTRUCTION as we can get for that comparison.

I have used the 8X57 to kill game with and it's a wonderful round. I have used the 338-06 as well as the 338 Win Mag (and many others too) and I have seen game killed with the 340 Weatherby, and the 338 Federal. I believe if we have any round that will give perfect penetration (meaning it gives us exits, 100% of the time) and a wound channel of at least 1.3" around, the game is going to die about the same from anything that makes that wound, if all wounds hit at the same angel and destroy the same organs and break the same bones.

Bullets don't kill and neither do cartridges or guns. Bullet holes kill!

So if we look at the same bullet going the same speed at impact the difference between a 340 Weatherby and a 338 Federal is the range you hit the game at. If for example we are looking at a 225 grain Nosler Partition impacting an elk or bear at about 2000 FPS the difference is that the game is shot with the Weatherby and at 450 yards and shot with the 338 Federal at 225 yards. The kill is going to be identical if the hits are. But in 8 out of 10 cases (my best guess) those hits are NOT identical.

You see, a precise hit at 225 is FAR easier to make then one at 450 yards. This is the one factor and is probably the most significant thing to focus on that everything else combined.

A 340 Weatherby shooter can be every bit as good a marksman and anyone else, but many times having velocity and power is a temptation to fire at game at longer ranges than you should or that you need to, and sometime farther then ethics would allow. The man who owns and loves his 338 Federal is a HUNTER and doesn't buy a rifle for that cartridge if he wants to shoot at 600-800 yards.

A precision marksman may want to shoot that far, (or farther) and will buy a faster cartridge, or one that fires skinnier bullet. .

So we don't hear many bad things bout the 8X57, the 338-06 the 338 Federal or even the 35 Whelen or 9.3X62---- and a whole lot of other shells....... because the men who love them use them at the ranges that they should be used and the effects on game is excellent. It would be just as good with a 340 Weatherby if you use a bullet that doesn't come apart, so you can insure the complete penetration I started this dialog with. But most who buy a 340 don't buy it for it's use at close range.

I have said in other posts and I'll repeat it here: The 2 cartridges I have seen more bad performance with then any other (maybe all others combined) are the 7MM Rem Mag and the 300 Winchester mag. Why? NOT BECAUSE THOSE 2 SHELLS ARE BAD! They are both excellent.
But many people seem to think 'long range' when they come out west to hunt and choose the wrong kind of bullet for the situation. They learn after about 5-10 hunts that long range out west is usually 2X farther then the shots they get in the east or mid-west, but not 6X to 8X farther. If you can make hits at 450 yards you could hunt 50 years out here and never be out of range if you have any hunting ability at all.

If you use a bullet that will get through to the other side in a relatively straight line, even if it hits bone (and preferably exit,) your gun and your cartridge is fine for your game.

But the higher the speed at impact the more important bullet construction is. A bullet that works well at 400 yards may blow up at 75 yards.
Conversely, if the impact speed is too low some very tough bullet fail to open up.
So as you can see, too far can mean a failure because the bullet fails to open and too close can make a bullet fail by blowing up.

So what is the ultimate answer?

After we strip away all the ballistic tables, theories, hype, "Gear-Queer marketing" and all that junk ..........we'll come back to the factor that is 98% of the issue. The hunter.

The idea that "I only have XXX many yards of range and so I need more" is something that I cannot argue against because in most cases it's driven by emotion, not logic.

Many hunters, myself included, have stepped away to some degree from rifles that can reach the next zip-code in favor of having the fun of hunting again. I have killed nearly all my game so far this year with iron sighted rifles and my shots have been under 200 yards. I still use scoped rifles for a lot of my hunting, but the thrill I get from using my flintlock, a stock revolver or an iron sighted gun that is about 100 years old sure makes the experience better for me. If shooting "way out there" is a thrill for you and IF YOU CAN MAKE KILL SHOTS 95% of the time or better, go for it. It should be fun. If it's not, why do it?

That brings me full circle. What do I think of the 338-06, 338 fed and the 8X57? A lot! But I never really tried to see them in competition one with another. They are all fine. You mentioned Moose .You mentioned bears. Black bears? I see no realistic difference.

Grizzlies? Ok, now I'd go with the one that shoots the heaviest bullet, sop of those 3 I'd take the 338-06. Why? Because I have been very close to Grizzlies a number of times and they are very scary, and I like having the largest club I can in those times. My 404 Jeffery is none too big at times like that.

I killed a nice bull with my 8X57 3 years ago and the bullets I used were not "fine' for the purpose, (170 Gr Hornady SST) so I will not use them again on elk. I killed the bull, but the bullets came apart and under a different set of circumstances I may have had to track it longer then I'd like. But with the 200 Grain Nosler Partition or the 180 grain Hornady GMX the 8X57 is as good a round as I could want for any hunting in N. America except maybe Grizzlies and Buffalo. Not that it's not up to the task, I am sure it is, but my 9.3s, my 375H&H and my 404 are all more powerful, so I'd choose one of them instead for those 2 animals. But with a proper bullet I feel as well armed for elk with an 8MM Mauser as I do with my 375H&H.

I have killed elk with various 338s in the past. Both 338 mags and 338-06s
Bullets used were the 210 Nosler partition (excellent) in both 338 Mag and in 338-06
225 grain Hornady Spire Point (came apart, fragmented and didn't go very deep) also in both 338 mag and 338-06
250 grain Hornady Round Nose (weird. 2 were excellent with good cavitation and penetration. But one exploded and went only about 8" deep breaking the spine and stopping. The empty jacket was laying against the bone. I killed the animal with a revolver shot to the head)
250 grain Nosler Partition (excellent) 338-06 on elk and 338 Mag on a few cattle.
275 Grain Speer. In my 338-06. One of the fastest kills I ever saw. Bullet hit mid-body and exited the neck about 8" in front of the chest. Elk was "gone" when I came out of recoil. Laying dead in the grass, and fell so fast I didn't see it fall.

I have seen a few others.
340 Weatherby with a Sierra 250 grain (excellent kill but the bullet turned about 45 degree and came out through the paunch. even though the hit was well forward and broadside) That bull humped up like a bronc bucking, and fell when it came back down.
338-06 used by 3 friends, used at 6 different hunts to kill elk and deer, all of which were guns I made.
I remember one was using a 180 gr Barnes X and that load was outstanding on both deer and elk. One was using a 200 grain Speer on a deer and the exit was large and dramatic, with red spray all over the trees behind the deer. One was with a 250 grain Nosler and it was excellent with about 3 seconds of staggering after the shot and then it fell.

The other kills I can remember fairly well, but I don't remember the details of the ammo now. I am sure I was told, but I have forgotten now.

338 Federal:
3 kills. One with a factory load. Seemed to be just fine. Don't remember the bullet but the kill was a cow elk at about 80 yards. Shot was good. elk ran about 25 yards and got "rubber legs" then fell. She was dead when we go to her.
Another was shot with a Barnex X 185 grain. Nice bull hit quartering away. Hit was good and the elk was moving as my buddy shot. Lost sight of the bull and we went to the spot the hit was made. Blood all over the place. A blind man could have followed it. The elk went about 80 yards down the hill and fell. Hit was about 1/3 up from the bottom of the chest and came out in front of the left shoulder.
Last one was about 285 yards from my hunter (different guy) with the same Barnes bullet. Facing us. Shot hit the neck at the juncture with the body and the elk just dropped. No exit. I fished through the gut pile but never found it. Bullet clipped the spine and angled down into the rear of the guts.

The same man I just described used the same gun and load to kill 3 antelope at over 300 yards, but I was not with him on any of those hunts so I can only say what I was told. All were good hits and all were quick kills but only one dropped at the shot. He also put down a sick horse with that gun and the bullet exited, dropping the horse.

So is the 338-06 or the 338 Federal any "better" then a 30-06 with a 220 grain for elk hunting?
I could not say because the 30-06 with the 220 grain load is also outstanding.
But I would say it's probably not any worse either.

If you like it, use it, and use it a LOT so you get good with it. When YOU are a good hunter and a good marksman it matters a lot less what you carry. Personally I think ammo is more important then rifles. I LIKE rifles so I don't get "married" to one round. If I use a bullet that holds together I feel just as good hunting elk in the trees with my iron sighted 9.3X57 as I do with my scoped 30-06 or my scoped 270. I feel better after the kill however with the iron sighted rifle handgun or flintlock. It REALLY feels good to make those kills on the open country and know you stalked up to shooting range.
Others disagree. They are not "wrong" and I may not be "right". It's just what I like to use.

Arguing one way or another is like arguing over what taste better, buttered lobster or a good grilled hamburger. "Right and wrong" are not things you can win that argument with.

I used a .338-06 to shoot my first elk in 1991. In load development, the 225 gr. Hornady shot so accurately, I never tried another bullet and don't recall using powders other than IMR4320 and IMR4064. I loaded to muzzle velocities of around 2600 fps or so. This was an intriguing cartridge for a while, but I lost interest in it after a few years.

As someone has already mentioned, there is probably no practical field difference between the .338-06 and a .30-06 with a heavy bullet. Nowadays, I'll take the -'06. But, practical is often boring. You'll enjoy the .338-06.

szihn - I really want to thank you for a thorough and detailed answer to my question. Your response was perfect in my opinion. Again, thanks!

I built a 338-06 Imp on a Model 70 stainless classic. 23" #3 Lilja barrel with a 12 twist, per Dan Lilja's recommendation. Rimrock stock and Leupold 2-5 - 8. Came out at 8# 1 oz. Great rifle. I would go with a 10 twist if I were to do it again. Shoots lighter bullets like the 200 Accubond and 210 Partition into cloverleafs. Heavier (longer) bullets open up to an inch or so at 100 - Good enough for what it is for. It will push 200's to 2900 and 210's to 2825 without straining things too much and is relatively gentle on the shoulder.

SZIHN pretty much tells it like it is......he is always a great read.

200, 210 or 215. Medium powder like Re-15. Oh yeah.

While not a 6.5 CM certainly, I still don't find my Kimber 84L 338-06 overly terrible on recoil. Even with 24 oz of scope rings and rail on it with a 3-9X42 SWFA its still 6.75 pounds all up. I cut the barrel down to 21" and it still flings 210s the same speed a 30-06 with 24" barrel flings 180s. 4+1 with 210 sciroccos at 2800+ fps it is a lot of firepower in a short handy package. I much prefer it to my 338 WM and 375 HH.



Does it do anything a 30-06 won't do?? Meh not really. But I have never owned a 30-06 and don't intend to start anytime soon.

I had one for a while and came to the same conclusion. Mine was a re-barreled Interarms MK-X in a Brown Precision stock. Several prominent gunwrter's including Finn Aagard tested the 338-06 as well as the 35 Whelen and concluded that 30-06 loaded heavy gave better penetration.

How much difference does .338" make vs .308"? Wrap one layer of masking tape around a 30 caliber bullet and it is now 33 caliber. Twice around and you have 35 caliber.

But it is a cool round that is different. Especially if you enjoy getting kicked harder for less performance.

I agree 100% with szihn. Another way of conveying his point on velocity - distance - cartridge/bullet is to say a 308 win shooting identical bullets as a 30-06 is basically saying the 308 is a 30-06 100 yards farther away. I'm also agree with statements on eastern hunters headed west. I was as guilty as anyone, thinking I needed to be able to shoot out to 5-6-700 yards. I've killed 10-11 elk now and the farthest has been 250 yards. I've shot most of them still hunting the timber - I love still hunting elk in the timber. Bottom line - I don't need a magnum to shoot elk at 50 yards. This year's elk was shot at 50 feet.

Yes it is. The 338-06 A-Square is the exact same cartridge as the standard 338-06 wildcat cartridge that has been loaded for years. The A-Square Company was the one to have the cartridge commercialized and the standard dimensions set so therefore they felt that the had the right to call it theirs and therefore introduced it as the 338-06 A-Square even though it was not different.

Where the confusion comes in is that A-Square also introduced a 338 A-Square which is something totally different but is sometimes confused with the 338-06 A-Square, but one is base on the 30--06 case and one is not.

Confusing as mud?

Less performance? Define performance. "Penetration" is just one aspect of terminal perfromance, in one dimension.

If penetration was the be-all end-all of terminal perfromance we'd all be shooting FMJ non-expanding bullets. The other part of the equation which is just as important if not more is the diameter of the wound channel and a larger diameter bullet makes a larger diameter hole, period. If you have two bullets of identical weight, (say 225 grains) with one out of a .30-06 and the other out of a .338-06 the only thing that would cause the .30 caliber bullet to penetrate further is a smaller wound channel. And "more penetration" becomes meaningless at the point where the bullet exits the animal in terms of the work/damage being done. If you want to equal .338 performance out of a .30-06 bore you need to use similar weight bullets, or "load heavy" in the .30-06.

Which brings us to "getting kicked harder?" If you're using bullets of the same weight, recoil is going to be the same, that's simple physics. And velocity out of the larger bore will be slightly better. And with the .338 bore you have the option to go heaveir than you can with the .30-06, if you want to.

Last, using the "wrap a layer of masking tape arpound the bullet," logic, you could say the .30-06 is no better than the .270 or .280. Or the .375 is no better than the .338. And so on and so forth.

Smokepole got it right

Ha, Va, you caught me editing my post. Still says the same thing, just re-arranged.

szihn, As usual very well stated! Those are almost exactly my views....only you said it much more eloquently and with much more evidence! memtb

I have a Sako 30-06 I could send to be bored out. Sounds like a fun cartridge. I didn’t read the entire thread, how much does JES charge?

Depends on what groove. http://35caliber.com/

Steve Timm also has a nice article on the 338-06.

My experience with the 338-06 has lead me to the conclusion that penetration is not an issue. Out of the 1/2 dozen elk, and all the deer/antelope. I have recovered exactly one bullet. A 210gr NPT that completely penetrated the chest of a cow elk and lodged in the lower front leg bone. With all the lead in front of the partition gone.

From what I have seen a 210gr TSX do. It is going to take something significantly bigger, or heavier structured to catch it. I shot a bull at 285 yards quartering to me. Entered on the front ball joint, shattered it into pieces, through the vitals/liver and exited at the back of the ribs. I would have loved to recover that bullet.

I have caught lots of flack for stating that bigger diameter bullets hit harder, but that is my opinion. If you can have the same weight but bigger diameter bullet driven at similar or slightly higher velocities than the 30's. Why not?

I believe for this thread the confusion is a likely typo by baldhunter. "The 338-06 A-Square is the same thing as 338-08." I read this as a typo and it should have ended in 06 and not 08. A 338-08 is most similar to the 338 Federal. As it was originally written it isn't true. As a typo and it should have compared to the 338-06 then, yes, the 338-06 A-Square would have been the same. Just my two cents input here.

Model 70....rebored from 270 to 338/06 by Bob West up in Eugene before he passed....
he was one of the last guys around who had trained under P.O. Ackley as a gunsmith.

as said, recoils like an 06...with H 380 has a fast velocity...primary bullets used have been
the older Hornady 200, 225 and 250 grain SPs....has caused two 338 Mags to spend most of their
lives as safe queens....

Just like an 06 only more of the good stuff.. its a 338 mag in an 06 case...

you'll enjoy it.

Yes it was a typo.I didn't catch it.Thanks for pointing that out.Fixed it.

Check with them..I don't think they like to rebore hammer forged barrels...to hard apparently

SAKO had a reputation for harder than average barrel steel so might be two strikes against that barrel. But if he is willing it will be a very good barrel.

Thanks gentlemen.

I always try to give good answers so as to help all who are interested. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I have made plenty, but what I know now is not a theory anymore. I KNOW what I know and what I don't I can sometimes make a good guess about when it comes to bullets because of my understanding of bullet design and performance in a class.

However I still make mistakes now and then and when I do I try to immediately tell everyone, so they don;'t have to repeat it. It's best for everyone and best for the game heard too.

I love the old saying; If I light your candle with my candle, it will not diminish the light of my candle."


Oh,,,,, Just in passing. I did catch the question about the 338-06 and the 338-08 being the same. No, they are not. The 338-08 is now called the 338 Federal and is based on the 308 Winchester case.

The 338-06 is (just like it sounds) based on the 30-06 case.

I am sure most others see what the poster meant to write, and also caught the typo.

I have a 338-06 and a 338 FED. I've only shot a couple of deer with each of them at distances between 100 and 250 yards and couldn't see a meaningful difference in terminal performance that couldn't be attributed to a variety of other variables.

I doubt you'd see a meaningful difference between those two and a 30-06 either.

I've had more positive results on deer with a 223AI over a 35Whelen.

It's only bigger game that it seems to make a difference. Inside of 250 yards, for deer, I'd take a 223 everyday of the week and twice on Sunday over anything 06 based. Cept maybe the 25/06

Yup. At one time I was all set to send the parts off for a 338/06 build. Swapped a 1-10 .308 barrel in at the last minute and had it chambered for 30/06 Springfield. No regrets at all. 😉

That's the thing about the '06 ........ You have to either get a lot bigger/faster or smaller to see any major improvement over what it's been doing for over 100yrs. Sure takes the fun out of wildcats.

+1, thank for the info and experience.

The old 30-06 is a great round.If I would have rebarreled the one I had rebored to a 338-06,I most likely would have stayed with the 30-06.But for what it cost me for the job,I figured what the hell I'll give it a shot.It runs a 200gr bullet a bit faster than the 30-06 with 200gr bullets,fairly close to the speed and energy of a 300 Win Mag with a 200gr bullet and not all that far behind the 338 Win Mag,all of that in a 30-06 case.I think it says a lot for the 30-06 case.Brass for the 338-06 is cheap to make from 30-06 brass,Shooters Pro Shop has 200gr Accubonds and Ballistic Silver Tips 2nds for under $20 a bag.Probably more than what I need for most of my hunting,but like the 30-06,I think I can kill just about anything on the planet with it.Here is some load data.

In my view the .338WM is perfect for me and all my hunting in Alaska, but as I get older the recoil of a .338-06 is not bad at all. As others have mentioned, there is nothing wrong with a .30-06 case topped with a .33-caliber bullet. It just becomes from just about perfect to perfect the older I get. I have been thinking about a .338-06 for a few years already, so one of these days....

Or at least a couple dozen other cartridges for that matter.

I did the 338-06 as half of a matched pair of Husqvarnas, the other is chambered in 256 Newton. The 338 FED is part of a 3 rifle matched set of stainless Ruger Hawkeyes; a 223, a 6.5 Creedmoor, and the 338 FED.

But my 338-06 certainly recoils more than my 338 WM.

informative and nicely stated

It may be machining qualities rather than hardness per se.

As far as hammer forging goes, at least one reborer I corresponded with in the past said Remington barrels rebored and rerifled just fine, but he wouldn't recommend doing a Sako.

Have had 2 338-06’s and one AI version. Both are good; just like a 30/06.

A 30-06 shoots 200 gr and lighter bullets better than the 338-06 (look at ballistic coefficients). For heavier bullets the .35 Whelen and 9.3X62 make more sense, plus factory ammunition availability (not that I would use any except in a pinch).

Sorry, but it makes no sense when you say "look at ballistic coefficients" on the one hand for .30 caliber bullets, and then say that a .35 caliber cartridge makes more sense for heavier bullets. When you look at "heavier bullets" like the 250 or 300 grain .338 Scenars or the 230, 250, or 270 grain Hornady bullets the .338 wipes the floor with 35 caliber bullets.

And for my purposes, I just want a bigger bullet than .30 caliber, and not for long range so BC is not really a consideration for me. Less recoil than the .338 WM, great bullet selection, and the ability to use .30-06 cases if need be are just the icing on the cake.

Yes, the BC of the larger diameter bullet will be lower for same weight. But the larger bore will also shoot the same weight faster. Basically, get what intrigues you. You’ll have to look really hard for a case where one makes an animal dead and the other does not.

True but for all but dangerous game the same thing can and has been said about virtually any cartridges you can think of, starting with the .223.

Was at the gunsmith's today and got to check the progress on my current 338-06 build.

All that is left to do is to cut/crown the barrel at 23" and cerakote. Should be ready next week!

Big .338 Federal fan here. Recoil just right for my liking. For long action based on an '06 case, make mine a 25/06.

I'm a left hand person, or better said handicapped fella. I got ahold of an close out on a left handed Ruger Hawkeye Compact Magnum rifle in 338 RCM for $499. Had to try it and I'm glad I did. It's basically an facsimile of the 338-06 designed to be used in short actions and shorter barrels. I love it and love the form and size of the rifle.

The 30-06, 308, and 6.5 Creedmoore are all fine and dandy, but the 338-06/338RCM is really a performance sweet spot without punishing recoil. Packs a bit more diameter and one can up the bullet weight if wanted. Yeah, 338 is good stuff.

I don’t think recoil will be as big an issue as some might think. My Kimber 338 Federal with 185-200gr loads at 2600-2700 is very manageable. A 338-06 going a bit faster but weighing a bit more should be about the same. You likely aren’t going to do all day bench sessions with it anyway. Lots of good 338 bullets out there. Sounds like a fun project.

A little off topic, most will get it, I think.


I bought a pre-Garcia Sako 338, just because.
I had been using a 300 Win, and was contemplating
this 338.

I get geeky about this stuff, and after laying in bed reading loading manuals and ballistics tables,
a light came on.

The 338 produces more muzzle energy than the 300.
The 300, produces more than enough energy up close.

With normal hunting bullets, as range increases, the 300 closes the gap, and has better trajectory.

Many people shoot lighter bullets in the 338 today. Heavies were what I thought it's strength was.
Why not use a 200gr Partition in the 300. And basically beat the 338 at almost everything.


Ok, that 338 is still in the safe.
If grizzlies were ever to be considered, it goes hunting.
Otherwise, the 300 rules.

Pretty much how I see the same thing in either the '06, or the '08 case.
Not that any are bad, just why?

PS. The 300 sees little sunshine anymore, smaller lighter stuff kills whitetails fine, and elk at too much commitment anymore.

Thanks to all who read the question in my first post and answered it. Seemed fairly straightforward, but perhaps harder to grasp than I'd thought.




Why?? I think the best way to answer that is with my own questions. "Most will get it, I think."

Why don't you read the question in the OP and try to answer it, rather than answering some different question no one asked but you want to opine on?

And why would a guy with a .338 in the safe ask another guy why he wants a .338? Don't you find that.........let's just go with "ironic? " Why don't you sell yours and load 200's in your '06, and live happily ever after?

I have a .30-06, and I can load it with 200's or 220's if I want. I never have and I doubt you have either.

I like 30-06's, no questions. But I also like almost any cartridge based on the old '06, from 25 thru 375. I have molds for 338 bullets and if I had only one cartridge for big game a 338-06 would do nicely, I think.

I find the 375 Whelen AI to be a very mild kicker with 235 thru 270 grain bullets. A 338-06 is a piece of cake.

Me too. But a .375? Now that's ridiculous.

Campfire tradition.
Basically asking "Are you sure you want to do it"
I explained the acquisition, it's still there because I haven't needed to sell it. And my comparison was by case size, so, 300Win.
And your right. I probably wouldn't go 200 in a 30. If I need that much punch, that would be the time I would go 338 250gr.

But, that's the fun and frustration in our available choices, and the choices we make.
It can go round and round. In 1906, they had a fantastic cartridge.
See my sig line.
The rest is just our wants.

After this '06 talk I bet you think I'm one who starts every hunting conversation with "my '06"
Have two, neither is a favorite rifle.
Don't often use it..

Here is why I originally picked the 338-06 in the early 2000's.

30-06 was too boring and not a big enough step up in diameter from my 270.

I seriously looked at 8mm-06, 338-06, and Whelen as I did not wanted a belted magnum. Had previously owned a 338 Win Mag.

8mm-06 did not have enough bullet selection way back when. I am not much impressed with the 325WSM either. I had owned a big eight (Remington magnum) at one time.

Whelen just did not seem to have enough powder capacity for the big bullets to ballistically keep up with the 338-06. .


The 338-06 comes dang close to the 300 magnums.
Easy to load for. I have never found any of the rifles had to load for. I could not get the Barnes 210gr XLC bullets to shoot in couple of rifles, and gave up on them.
The loaded round looks good
It has performed so well for me that I see no reason to change.
It has now become personal preference.

I like your logic, thanks.

Especially the part about the loaded round looking good. Does any cartridge round look better than a 338-06? I think not.

DB, thanks for the reply. I guess it is a campfire tradition and yes, I'm sure I want to do this. Do I need a .338-06, no.

Will I possibly change my mind and go with a different chambering, yes. I've always wanted a 6 mm-06 too.

I'd like to make another trip to AK and if I do this would be the rifle I'd take, if I have it re-barreled. I also like new projects, loading for and getting "new" rifles to shoot.

The .338-06 is just the latest on my list. You do realize you're asking why I don't go with a chambering you have two of in your safe but don't use much? I could happily hunt the rest of my life with just my '06 but I don't use mine much either, go figure.

I do like the looks of the 338/06 Ackley Improved & 35 Whelen Improved the best.

I was considering a 338-06 pretty hard. Had never really wanted a 30-06 because it was too common. I like things that are different just because I guess.

However, I ended up with a 30-06 and loading it with Hornady 208 grain ELD M's. I haven't shot a deer yet, but all summer my test medium has been hogs. I have shot them from 50#'s up to one a hair under 300#'s yesterday. Fragmentation on small pigs has been outstanding. Creating absolutely devastating wounds. There is enough weight that penetration has been excellent on the big pigs too. Nothing shot with it had moved a step yet. All have fallen over and kicked a little at most. I'm at over 20 pigs right now. Just did three more yesterday.

Recoil is stiff, but I cannot see the need for anything else. It has been a long quest for me, but I think I have finally found my perfect round for killing big and small DRT

You're bored

Norma, Weatherby and Nosler brass are all marked "A-Square" because Art Alphin couldn't sit on his fingers during the SAAMI process to legitimize it.

I built one almost 20 years ago. Nice round. I find the 200 gr NBT, NAB and 210 NP ideal for it. My friend Dober has used his almost exclusively with the 200 NBT. Great elk bullet.

It's about the about the simplest cartridge to form from standard brass, and I think it's the best looking LA round ever.

However, I find no need for one for all the obvious reasons already stated.

Here's a nice article Finn Aagaard did on the round back in the day:

http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/NickuduFiles/Members-PDF/Aagaard-338-06.pdf

Thanks for the link Brad. Always learn something useful when I read on of Finn's articles.

Back when writers actually did their homework.

Substance in articles is becoming quite rare.

FWIW, I did much reading years ago before having Hart put a barrel on a 700. 23"

Shot 200 NBT at 2910
215s at 2790
225s at 2675 - Hornady, Speer and NPTs.

ALL would shoot 1/2 MOA, using either a 6x42, a 2.5-8x, or 1.5-6 B&L. 3-shot groups.

Used WW brass, partial sized, and IMR 4320 powder, what my reading led me to for accuracy and speed. Absolutely flattened 2 deer with it.

Lastly, spoke to a guy in the ammo biz before having mine built. They had done standard and AI, and in HIS experience, had no gain in speed with AI. They took elk to near 400 yds, exiting off shoulder with 225 NPT, silver dollar exit, and no tracking The 210 PT works fine, but only saves a couple inches drop at long distance, but loses energy. I prefer its BC/SD. The 200 Noslers HAMMER deer at 2900+ FWIW.

Great round, more a "Push" than Snap vs a 338 WM, though that rifle was about 3/4 # lighter. If building one today, I would go no longer than 22.5", no shorter than 21 for balance. Blast is modest. I would have a target weight of 7 to 7.5 # bare rifle. Also, I would have a contour of around .650 min to .675 or "700 Mag" contour max.

They Kill well, shoot accurate, and modest on recoil, IME. Too bad the rifle choices were not more abundant like the 338 Fed at one time, and ammo to match.

Useless.

Have another gallon...

Idiotic.

Aagard's penetration test seems to validate some of the common sense advice for the 30-06 and the 200 grain partition.

But I can certainly understand having to scratch an itch, logic be damned.

Done it a time or two myself, including a Weatherby ultralight in 338-06

Yeah, I've had three .338-06's over the years. It's a good round, especially for those who want something different on a .30-06 case. But eventually I decided either the .30-06 itself (especially with 200 Partitions) or the .338 Winchester downloaded a little covered the same ground. Also found the 9.3x62 more effective with heavier bullets than the .338-06 or .338 Winchester. This may not sound like a real rifle loony decision, but there it is.

Very disappointing......

If it’s “confirmation bias” you’re after, the Hunters Campfire forum is your huckleberry...

LOL, that was topngue-in-cheek, just a response to MD's apology for not making the "loony" decision.

But yeah, I know what you mean, how would you propose to annihilate the caravan??

Is there an animal in NA that will survive a hit by any decent 200-225gn bullet launched by a 338-06? I doubt effectiveness can be surpassed in any meaningful way. There could be better long range choices I suppose.

The .338-06 and a .257 AI are the last remnants of my wildcat fling. The .257 AI is the perfect deer rifle for the kind of hunting that I do, but the .338-06 is more about the rifle in which it is chambered, rather than the cartridge itself. One of these days, I will pass it along to someone who will appreciate it as much as I do.

What I've discovered in 30+ years of gun writing is many (if not most) readers want to read about stuff they use, and if the author writes about their favorite stuff then they feel justified--and a kinship with the writer. If the author praises their choice, then he's a blood-brother. Which is why gun writers who try a lot of stuff and report it all works on some level, for some purposes, are often considered blood-brothers.

In the past couple years I've done articles on rifles and cartridges from the .33 WCF to 6.5 PRC, after considerable dinking with rifles made more than a century ago and modern "customs" made a couple months ago. Have also shot a bunch of big game animals over 52 years, and been standing beside hunting companions as they shot at least as many. Have performed and observed a bunch of big game autopsies, and tested a lot of bullets in various media.

I'm still a rifle loony, but have yet to see major differences in how widely similar cartridges kill stuff, given bullets that penetrate and expand sufficiently, within certain broad parameters. Am still learning stuff every month (or week), but would be very surprised if somebody develops a bullet or cartridge that kills big game noticeably "better" (whatever that means) than similar rounds/bullets. Have seen 700-pound animals dropped on impact with 100-grain .25-caliber bullets, and go 200 yards with 300-grain .375 bullets put in just about exactly the same place--with both bullets recovered under the hide on the far side. As a result, am not convinced of the magic in any cartridge/bullet.

But we all love to bat such stuff around endlessly. In the past week have seen posts asking about whether the Nosler AccuBond is adequate for "big deer", or the performance difference between the Barnes TSX and Tipped TSX, despite all those bullets being around for more than a decade.

Yeah, there are differences in cartridges and bullets, but the biggie is shot placement by a considerable margin, not 1/2" smaller groups, 20% more bullet weight retention, a few 100ths of an inch in bullet diameter, or even twice as much initial bullet weight. If the bullet expands and penetrates sufficiently through the vitals, the animal will die quickly. If the bullet doesn't penetrate the vitals, the initial diameter or weight doesn't make much difference, despite the belief in magnum magic. Have seen this over and over again, as have others including Finn Aaagard, who I knew pretty well.

That doesn't mean I've quit "experimenting." But it does mean I no longer believe in magic.

But, but, but, stop using logic...…

Let's muddy the waters. What if a rifle will not shoot the 200gr NPT, like my 300 H&H? I have to slum a 180gr.

With the 338-06 you have more 200-210gr choices. Plus you can slum 180's or bullets heavier than 210gr.

These paragraphs need to be read and reread (and probably reread 3 or 4 times) by the majority of members of this forum.

OK, I read 'em, what next?

PS, I'm still gonna build a .338-06.

Double PS, could you please use a different color next time, red is obnoxious.

What’s next is that you share pics of your 338-06 build.

...wet blanket.....grin....

LOL, my old H&H loves the 200 and 220gr Partitions, the 338-06 with the mighty 250gr Swift A Frames at 2550 is akin to a baby 375 H&H, what a plow!

Please elaborate on the "more effective" part.

My guess is a bigger hole!

I'm sort of with John on this one... it seems to me the 33 is a tweener. Not really that much of a step up from a 30 cal. - sort of in no-man's-land.

It also seems to me if you're after a bigger hole you might as well get a bigger hole! After all, that is the supposed point of the medium bores, that the bigger hole offers something over the typical 26-30 cal's.

So, the .338-06 makes a bigger hole than the .30-06, just not "big enough?"

CRS,

After using the .338's considerably on a wide variety of big game in the 1990's, I used the 9.3x62 considerably on a similar variety in the 2000's. Also, several hunting companions used the .338 and 9.3x62, providing even more data. Overall the 9.3x62 dropped animals quicker, especially when lung-shot rather than shoulder-shot.

Recently did some analysis of all this with recovered bullets from several calibers. The "mushroom" of .338 bullets didn't average any wider than the mushroom of .30 caliber bullets, but 9.3mm bullets averaged noticeably wider. Plus, though there's some overlap, 9.3 bullets tend to be heavier than .338 bullets. Those I've used (and seen used) weighed from 250-300 grains, while none of the .338's weighed over 250 grains, with most in the 210-230 grain range. It could be disputed whether either of those factors made the difference in the observed results, but would guess they probably did.

Interesting data on the average size of the mushroomed .30 caliber vs. .338 caliber bullets. I keep hearing that a .30-06 bullet will out-penetrate a .338-06 bullet of similar wieght and construction.

If the bullets expand to the same average diameter, what would explain a difference in penetration?

The thing that no one talks about any more... SD.

Did you look at the Aagaard article and his penetration tests?

Intuitively, it would seem that SD would matter with bullets that didn't expand, Or to put it another way, wouldn't the diameter of the expanded bullet have more of an effect on penetration than SD?

Mass is the engine, frontal area is the brakes. Just play with the ratio throughout penetration.

The issue I have with SD is that it is published for the bullet as loaded. Once it hits the SD is changing as it expands and mass is lost, or not. A Barnes penetrates so well because, in general, the mass is the same throughout the penetration while a cup and core is losing weight.

I did an informal study of SD shooting a bunch of bullets into media. I plotted published SD, penetration, and the resulting SD, I.e. retained weight and resultant frontal area. There was almost zero correlation of penetration to published SD and nearly 100% correlation with the resultant SD.

A .338" 200 gr bullet has a lower SD than a .308" 200 gr bullet... given equal construction, the 30 will always out-penetrate the 33. SD matters in non-mono bullets. Of course it matters in mono's too, just to a lesser degree.

The expanded diameter has definite effect on penetration, in fact more than retained weight. Have seen this both in "media" testing and big game hunting, In particular some bonded bullets designed to open widely are more often recovered (even from deer-sized animals) than bullets which open to a smaller mushroom, even if both types retain 90% of their weight or more. I've seen this quite a few times with the Hornady Interbond, Norma Oryx and Woodleigh Weldcore.

Sectional density can also have an effect, but primarily when the mushroom is relatively narrow, as it is in most monolithics and some lead-cored bullets, such as the North Fork and Nosler Partition. Essentially, those bullets retain more of their original section density than the wide expanders.

I haven't read the article yet, it's on my list though. I wonder if the bullets available back then had any influence on the results, compared to what we have today.

My favorite Elk bullet, the Partition, was available.

In Finn's test:

338-06 - 210 NP went 16.8" Penetration.
338-06 - 250 NP went 19.5" Penetration.

30-06 - 200 NP went 21" Penetration.

All would result in an equally dead critter. IMO

Agreed, but that's not really the point.

The idea is that the 338-06 offers something over the 30-06 on large game... that is it's raison d'etre. That may have been the case prior to "premium" bullets like the Partition, but with today’s great bullets I can't really see it offers anything. If I want a bigger hole than a 30, I'll jump right past 33... which is why I quit the 338 WM about 20 years ago.

But these itches must be scratched...

In other words it’s all loony stuff! Which is perfectly valid!

Thanks. Did he measure the expanded diameter, or diameter of the hole the bullets made?

Never mind, I answered my own question. The one bullet he tested in the 30-06 that expanded to the diameter typically seen with the .338 (.67") penetrated 13 inches.

JB and PRM, I agree. And yes, Finn demonstrated the penetration of a high SD 200 PT from an '06 is formidable. He also said in a write up on a ULA 7mmBR, that most shooters have far too much gun. Now on deer sized game, no doubt that is true. When after dangerous game or game like Elk that can travel into hard to reach places if not put down fast, it's a good practice to know what you carry will handle the chore.

A 338 bore will have a greater frontal area, just as a .35 and 9.3, and so on. Permanent wound channel should be affected by caliber, all else equal.

That said, I never liked the '06, but recognize what they can do. My 338-06 had less FELT recoil than a former 06. Recoil pad and weight did matter.

These days, if I wanted a mid-bore, a 9.3 would be my choice. It would be for anything under 300 yds. The 338-06 will surprise folks in it's trajectory when you zing a 200 NBT/NAB at 2900. Even the 225s do well. I would say they are a solid 400 yd choice.

If one wanted a truly LR rifle, a hot 30 or 7mm will get it done, if you can handle the recoil and place shots.

In the world of race cars, many often say there is no substitute for C.I. In hunting, as JB says, placement is key. Penetration to vitals is required but with today's bullets, many options will do the deed. Regardless of round used, any fairly hit animal, where you accomplish placement and penetration, will typically be on borrowed time.

65BR,

You might be surprised at the longer-range potential of the 9.3x62. The Varget load I use with 250 AccuBonds gets just about exactly the same muzzle velocity from my 23.6-inch barreled CZ as I get from 250 Partitions from my 22-inch barreled .338 Winchester Magnum, a little over 2650 fps. I haven't shot anything much beyond 300 with the load, but that was easy, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it at 400-450.

except the 9.3x62?

0.366-0.338= 0.028
0.338- 0.308= 0.030

And the 338 is not a big enough difference, yet the 9.3 is?

Got it.

CRS,

Amazing.

I actually measured a bunch of recovered bullets, instead of guessing from unexpanded bullet diameters. In fact, I had to eliminate some of the recovered .30 caliber bullets from the comparison, because they were wide-expanding bonded bullets that didn't appear in the .338 samples, such as the Hornady Interbond and Norma Oryx.. Otherwise the .30 caliber expansion average was LARGER than the .338's.

Have found the 9.3x62 performs more like a .375 H&H than a .338 Winchester Magnum when loaded to modern pressures of around 60,000 PSI. This shouldn't be surprising since the 9.3x62 uses bullets with diameters and weights more like the .375 than the .338.

Oh, and I have also used the .375 H&H a lot, along with observing several hunting partners using it a lot--as with the .338 and 9.3x62 on game up to well over 1000 pounds. Would love to hear your experience with all three rounds.

Some here might recall the old "Knock Out" value #'s...was it Taylor?

JB, 2650 is moving for 250 grains. A certain powder, or will several do that? Sold a 338 WM, it just punched me harder than I want, granted a lighter gun and hard rubber pad vs a Decelerator or similar. Thanks for the info.

I've been thinking this for years, but never put into words as well as you have. I've come to the conclusion that if a round is adequate for the game a person is hunting, all that really matters is that the person shoots it well and practices enough to place the shot where it counts.

No where near the experience you have.

Here is what I have done/seen.

Elk with 243-375.
Africa a couple times, Impala to Buffalo. 300 H&H with 180gr TTSX, 330 Dakota with 225gr TSX, 375 H&H with 300gr TSX, 404 Jeffery with 400gr TSX.
More deer/antelope than I can remember, or even begin to count taken with 222- 50cal muzzleloader, not to mention longbows and recurves.

65BR,

Several powders will easily get 2600+ from 250's in the 9.3x62. I started with RL-15 many years ago, but during the Obama shortages switched to Varget, and have tried others (such as TAC) in the same general burn-rate range, which also worked. Have had some of the loads pressure-tested, and they're in the same range as SAAMI .30-06 ammo, about 60,000 PSI.

Taylor's Knock-Out formula is interesting. I discuss it considerably in the long chapter on killing power in GUN GACK II, because he wrote about his theory in two books, published the same year, 1948. One was his lesser-known BIG GAME AND BIG GAME RIFLES, and the other his widely known AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES. They were published in the same year by different companies due to a fluke in timing, one in Great Britain and one in the U.S. In BIG GAME he mentions the KO formula only applies to "bluff-nosed solids" on really big game, primarily elephants, and its supposed to reflect how long a bullet will render an elephant unconscious with a head-shot, even if it missed the brain.

But in AFRICAN RIFLES he fails to mention this basic point about the formula only applying to solids, and as a result many hunters have applied it to expanding bullets on all big game.Taylor was not an admirer of high velocity, mostly due to the mediocre expanding bullets of his day, but does grudgingly acknowledge that kinetic energy seems to apply more accurately than the KO formula with expanding bullets on "soft skinned" game.

Mule Deer, I know nothing about the 9.3 x 62, but I assumer It won't fit in a standard long action?

Schizn excellent reading .....great thread.

I would suggest that the difference between the front of the lungfield and the back of the lungfield is the innervation, and heart and great vessels.

The Vagus nerve and brachial plexus are positioned in the foreword lung area.


I think the 3006 versus 338 O6 same mass bullet comparison may be flawed considering the behavior of the powder column as the " neck" is expanded and bearing surface increases in the barrel. It seems the less difference between the cartridge diameter and the bullet the more powder can be used.

The 30 06 bullet same mass would also be longer and could also hamper powder capacity in the case.

I also am thankful I read this post for economics. I already own a Hitler era post office sniper rifle Mauser in 8 x57.

It groups excellent, has a timney trigger, Bell and Carlson stock, bolt locking safety, is paid for and handles " hot loads".

It Is the first rifle I ever owned.

My uncle, which I never met gave it to my Dad . They were both veterans of WW 2. He brought it back from Germany.

No need to rebore a 3006 4 me IMO.

Excellent thread ..very fun to read!

The beauty of the 9.3x62 is it DOES fit in a standard bolt face/long action.

Hmmmm......

If you want to shoot a 250gr bullet, a 9.3 is a great choice. Unfortunately my 9.3x64 does not like 250gr projectiles and I settled on the 286gr, (gasp... NPT) and it loves the factory loaded 293gr RWS bullets, but they are soft.

It does not offer much velocity over the 62, but it certainly classifies for looney status. Plus I really like the rifle.

I'm not too wild about recoil, but I've successfully cleanly killed moose and bears with my 338-06 and even enjoyed shooting it at the gun range.

It was easy to load and quite accurate which is a necessity for me and most hunters.

Steve

Great to see you posting, Steve!

jorgeI,

And it is great to hear from a great guy.

Many thanks for your kind words.

Best regards to every corner of your life.

Steve

Thanks JB, good stuff, as always

Concur w/above, great thread.

Hey you keep thinking about it you DA. Your about as bright as black hole.

Bet smokepole’s bright enough to know the difference between “your” and “you’re”...

Build a full bore custom 3o/o6 Springfield, smokepole!

You sound very familiar with black hole.

smokepole,

In the old Campfire tradition of beating a defunct horse, as Brad pointed out the 9,3x62 will indeed fit in a "standard" .30-06 action.

In fact it was specifically developed around 1905 to fit in the standard K98 Mauser action designed around the 8x57, to provide German settlers in Africa with a pretty powerful round in a relatively cheap rifle. It's basically am 8x57 with a shorter neck and longer body; as a result it has about the same case capacity as "improved" .30-06 based rounds.

I have yet to encounter a .30-06-based action that won't feed the 9,3x62 very slickly.

Thanks MD. Now I recall that you've written about it many times, including the fact that it fits a standard LA.

Food for thought.

How does a 35 wheelen compare to a 9.3 x 62?

How does the case capacity of a 35 Remington compare to a 35 wheelen?

The 35 Whelen is .358” - the 9.3x62 is .366”.

A massive difference

But I happen to think the Mauser is a better case design...

Is not a 9.3 X 62 a 3006 case?

They are both 62 MM. A 8 x 57 is well......57 mm

Angus,

The .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are VERY similar cartridges, but the Whelen is somewhat handicapped by the 1-16 rifling twist traditional in .35 caliber-the twist in most factory .35 Whelens As a result, 1-16 .35 Whelens won't consistently stabilize lead-core spitzers over 250 grains, or monolithics over 225 grains.

The standard twist in the 9,3x62 is 1-14, which may not seem like much of a difference, but there's a ratio relationship between caliber, rifling twist and bullet length. Which is why a much "slower" twist will stabilize a long, large caliber bullet , but a much "faster" twist is required for a smaller caliber bullet of the same length.

The standard twist in the 9.3x62 is 1-14, but because of the slightly larger caliber than .35, it will stabilize spitzers up to 286 grains, whether lead-core or monolithic, or roundnoses up to 320 grains.

Then there's the slightly larger case capacity of the 9.3x62, around 10%. Combined with the larger bullet diameter, the 9.3x62 can start 250-grain bullets around 100 fps faster than the .35 Whelen. That doesn't really mean a lot--but the ability to use bullets heavier than 250 grains can be useful.

In other words, because the 9,3x62 was originally designed around 286-grain bullets, its a more versatile cartridge than the .35 Whelen, and when loaded to modern pressures close to the .375 H&H in field performance. Of course some .35 Whelen fans (and I have owned and hunted with several) point out that the Whelen can be easily loaded down with .357-caliber handgun bullets. Whether that's a big advantage depends on your perspective.

Thank you!

I have a 338-06 and a 30-06 I like them very much. They are on Remington actions, the 338-06 has a #3 barrel and the 30-06 has a #2 . They shoot very well.

The 9.3 x 62 is not based on a 30-06 case. Minor differences I know. but, the 30-06 base is .471 and the rim is .473. The 9.3x62 base is .476 and rim is .470. I cannot tell you the source but remember there were minor changes made by Otto Bock around 1905 when he made the 9.3x62. He made alterations so he did not conflict with the Mauser patents at the time. I am sure any 9.3x62 loaded from 30-06 brass would have a slightly shorter life as there would be brass expansion. It was designed to be the largest cartridge to fit into the 98 mauser size limitations.

The 7x64 (almost an identical twin to my 280 Remington) was also based on the 9.3 x 62 case. It has a base size of .467 which I presume was to not allow 9.3 x 62 cases to be accidentally loaded into the 7x64.

And, as to the difference between the 9.3 and the 35 Whelen. About the same difference in diameter as between the 270 and the 280. For all practical purposes the 35 Whelen is the American equivalent to the 9.3x62. Just as the 7x64 is the European equivalent to the 280 Rem. In both cases the European cartridge designers were many years ahead in their thinking. My opinion, with no practical experience to back it up, is I would really enjoy one of these 9.3 x 62's!

To comment on the subject of the 338-06 in the 80's I asked my gunsmith a question about what rifles would he make and use for all hunting in North America. Without hesitation he said he would use a 250 Savage in a full stock bolt rifle like the Ruger RSI and his other would be a 338-06 for all larger game. I never asked him what action his 338-06 would be but the only full Mannlicher style of stock would be the 250 Savage. He also commented he might just have a red dot sight on the 250 for jump shooting blacktail and leave everything else for the scope sighted 338-06. He felt that pair would be perfect for all of hunting he might be able to do for the rest of his life.

I built my .338-06 back in about 2002 to be the "big gun" compliment to my 7mm-08 at the time, with grand visions of elk and moose hunting every few years. 16 years latter, my vision was long on the "few years" and short on the "elk and moose hunting". I would have been better off just leaving it a .30-06. I'm not sure how much better, if at all, it is than a .30-06 with a good 180.
Don't get me wrong, it's been a great rifle, but for me, completely unnecessary.
These days, I'm completely over recoil and don't really like shooting anything over a 7X57 or .308.

Hogs are "terrific" American/Lower 48 substitutes for elk/moose/big bear! They are even good eating and easily affordable for any serious hunter...you can kill shoats for the grill or the big mean crossbreeds with long nasty tusks, even a big sow can tear your heinie up, so they are very dangerous game, in some forms! So "no reason" not build that "Dream Big Game Rifle" and enjoy this short life! I killed my last hog ( a fine eating 200# sow Eurasian in the UP) with a 310gr Woodleigh/35 Whelen Ackley Improved ( I still like writing all that!) it was "perfect", 40 cal entrance, 70 cal exit, soup in between. I could have done the same on cape buffalo with that round where allowed by Law!

Me too. I really enjoyed mine, but other than elk I had no need of it. These days I stick with the 257 Roberts and 250 Savage for most deer hunting. I've only used the ol 270 once in the last 10 years.

You must love 6 and 6.5's

Probably would, but I'm supply heavy with 7mm stuff having multiple 7-08's and a 7X57.

Not a bad place to end up....

Picked up my latest 338-06 from the smith yesterday.

First impression: I like it! I think I definitely got the blueprint right as it feels very good in the hands.

Will not have a chance to play with it until after the seasons are over. We still have 6 tags left between me and the boys and the next 4 days will be spent hunting, processing the two deer that are in the frig aging, and giving Thanks.

Would be interested in seeing what you built.

I have a .338-06 that I would be willing to let go pretty cheap as I'm cutting down on number of rifles I own as the years catch up with me. PM me if interested.

I really think for shots under 150 yards, the .338-06 with 160 grain bullets at 3100 fps is a better killer than any of the smaller bore variants of the .30-06, including the .30-06 itself.

Yeah. Me too!!

Any rifle that will shoot a .338 200gr Ballistic tip is a fine elk hunting rifle.
Been thinking of putting one together myself...

The only real reason for owning a .338-06 is that you want one!

True that!

I guess, that's why I have one.

A 210gr Partition at 2800 fps from a 7.75LB all up rifle has many, many good uses, I need to hunt mine more.

The .338-06 will probably over penetrate on turkeys.

Have a good one today, don't forget the nap.

Probably, but I'm really worried about "bullet failure."

I'm currently building a .338-06 and intend to shoot the 185 Grain TTSX bullet.According to published data it will still have 1670 ft-lb energy left at 400 yards and still be cruising about the speed of a .30-30 at the muzzle with a similar weight bullet.

It's trajectory is something I like....I call it the 2-0-8-2-4 curve...2" high at 100 yards, zero at 200 yards, 8" low at 300 yards and 2' low at 400 yards.

This means one can shoot dead-on to 250 yards and hold on the top of the back 250 to 350 yards and hold 1/2 elk body over the back at 400 yards.....all one needs then is a good range finder and that's something he needs regardless of what he's shooting.

After shooting three elk this year (and then four mule deer) all with TTSX bullets I'm totally sold on their performance and have heavy confidence in the 185 grain .338 caliber TTSX bullet.

Given this round fits nicely in standard .30-06 actions, and has plenty of poop for 400 yards, it's had to pass it up.

While there may be several rounds of greater power, it simply seems that the .338-06 has power to spare for 400 yard shots and without the muzzle blast and recoil of many of those more powerful rounds. One can stretch it another 100 yards but we just run out of my shooting ability.....and from what I've seen most of my life, most others as well.

The only negative to the .338-06 is that it's totally a handloaders proposition as I don't think any economical factory rounds are available.

Smokepole, I had a .338-06 Weatherby I bought from Bill Krenz to be my ultimate backpacking elk rifle. Then we downsized and I gave up reloading making a .338-06 problematic, so I traded it for a Kimber .308. As I tend to carry rifles and not shoot creatures, the Kimber was an improvement for me. If I were to not be shooting big bears or moose, I'd feel better with the .338-06. Have also messed around with the .35 Whelen. Keith made an impression. However, after reading 17 pages of erudite (and not) postings, I am totally sold on the 9.3x62mm. It seems to be an inarguable step up from a .30-06. Looking forward to your decision and build.

Posted a new thread in the hunting rifles forum on my new 338-06.

Teeder, taken a few head myself with various 7s....BR, 08, RM Nothing wrong with them either as you know.

I am still thinking of one.
Have everything including a spare rifle and barrel to re-bore and dies, but because I have a long history with the .338, .340 and .338/378 Weatherby, it stalls me.
But I do recognize its worth, a 186gn Barnes TTSX at near 3000fps for general use and a 250gn Nosler Parition at 2400fps is awfully attractive, not to mention all the 265 grainers and the wonderful 300gn Woodleigh Weldcore for heavy game in brush although the weight is the attraction , not the round nose for that task.