All,

Is there a single powder I could use for both the .270 Winchester/150 (Partitions) and .30-06/180 (Accubonds) that wouldn’t be a compromise in one or both? I am not looking for “pedal to the floor” velocity, but I don’t want to leave a lot on the table. I’d like to get 2850 to 2900 out of both (22” and 24” in .270, 24” in .30-06.) Always looking for an accurate load, of course. Temperature resistant would be nice.

If there is not a single powder suggestion, where would you start with the .270 and .30-06? Again, temperature resistant would be nice.

Thanks so much,
Gun Doc

I don't know how Temperature resistant it is but IMR 4831 works great in both. In fact both my top load in each I use it. 56 grains in my .30-06 under a 200 grain Game King is one of my sweet loads while 56.7 Grains under a 130 grain Nosler BT or 130 SGK is my honey load in my .270 Win. I don't shoot 150s but IMR 4831 is listed for 150s in my Speer No. 9 loading manual.

Also, IMR or Hodgdon's 4350 does well in both also.

IMR 4350

2850 to 2900 fps in an 06 with a 180 grain bullet is kinda bordering on being a hot load territory...

your one best choice is going to start out with 4831 SC, or slower...

RL 23 or 26, H 1000....and it will be a full case...

The 270 load with a 150 grain, No problem with RL 19 or 4831SC to get 2850 to 2900 fps.

That's where I'd start, and then proceed directly to R-26. R-26 seems to work really well with 150s in the .270, not sure about 180s in the '06 though.

Way back when, I knew a fellow who loaded for the 22-250, 270, 280, and 30-06, and used one powder.....IMR4064. I do not know what bullet weights, or any other information. But, I do know that he and his son killed a truckload of deer using his reloads.

H 4350 or IMR 4451 would be where I'd start.

Rl 26 would be my next step. It is slow burning but is a Hi Density powder so more will go in the case.

H 4831 certainly will work in the 270 obviously. However it's NOT a hi density powder so you can't get enuff in the 06 case < IMO >


Good Luck


On a related note: I've chased 1 powder for multiple loads OR rounds BUT I figured out that it takes.....

X no. of pounds of powder to load say 300 rounds. I decided it does NOT matter if they're the same powder or not because you still have to have the same amount of powder........

AND sometimes you're better off using DIFFERENT powders for each --- less demand on a single powder. YMMV


Jerry

IMR 4831 gets my vote, works well in both

I was gonna say that too. I don't think it will give top velocity, at least not in the 270, but it sure makes some accurate loads. And if you want reduced loads, it works pretty good too. I used it in 270 with 110gr bullets to make a reduced load for the kids (about 2,800fps) & it was <MOA.

H4831

GunDoc,.

Apparently some respondents missed the fact that you're loading 150's in the .270.

I've used a number of powders that work very well for both 150's in the .270 and 180's in the .30-06. Ramshot Hunter might be at the top of the list, though like some of the other powders mentioned so far it's a little temperature sensitive. Of course that can vary with specific applications, but in general it's about like the "traditional" IMR powders such as IMR4064, IMR4350 and IMR4831--not as temp-sensitive as many older spherical powders, but not as temp-resistant as the new IMR Endurons.

Of course, you might not desire or need much temp-resistance. I tend to value it, due to living where a wide range of temperatures is common, but between about 30 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit even the most temp-sensitive powders don't vary much.

Might mention that I've had excellent luck with H4831SC with 180's in the .30-06, both in terms of accuracy and velocity, and of course it works very well in the .270. In the .30-06 it requires some compression, but not "crunching." Haven't tried IMR4955 that much yet, but wouldn't be surprised if it works very well for both the applications you're interested in.

My experience with slightly faster-burning powders, such as the 4350's, you'll be giving up some velocity with 150's in the .270. The exception might be Accurate 4350, with in my tests has generally been slower-burning than IMR or H4350. Or at least my present batch is.

Like many new Wonder Powders over the decades, apparently many people think Reloder 26 will do the same fantastic things for all cartridges as it does for 150-grain bullets in the .270, or heavier bullets in the .243, but I haven't found it all that flexible. Where it works, it really works, but it isn't a universal solvent. In fact, a quick check of .30-06 data didn't find any listings for 26 with 180's, and a lack of data generally indicates a powder isn't particularly suitable for that applicatiojns. I'd be inclined to try RL-23 instead.

The latest versions of all Vihtavuori rifle powders are ery temp-resistant, and have decoppering agents as well. Just started fooling with the "improved" versions in 2018, but N560 is a great all-around powder in the general 4350-4831 burn rate.

It may not work.....but I’m planning on trying RL 17, in both! memtb

One powder is about as bad as the proposition of just one gun....

Someone is gonna have to give up his Loony card...

DF

IMR 4064 or IMR 4350. I use the 4064 in my 375H&H, 30.06, .308 and .243.

I resemble that remark! memtb

Ram shot hunter.
I use big game in 06 with 168 TTSX and 165 SST for practice. you can use big game in 270 but no load date for heavier pills than 130gr.
Then hunter in 270 with 130TTSX or 140 SST for practice.... this load works very good. I have them set at the same CBTO. I think its 2.665

IMR4831 is my go-to with 180's in the -06. I get 2800 fps. Haven't tried 150's in the 270 but 4831 is my go-to for 130's.

D F, that would be a good Sig Line


Jerry

4831 short cut works well and it also works good for volume loading if your in a hurry.

+10

Have you gave RL-16 any thought? It's in the 4350 burn spectrum and is temp resistant.. Ive loaded it in my 280 and it does really well with 154 gr SST's. Alliant has some data with RL-16 and 180 gr '06 bullets..

Mule Deer said above......^^^^^


"Like many new Wonder Powders over the decades, apparently many people think Reloder 26 will do the same fantastic things for all cartridges as it does for 150-grain bullets in the .270, or heavier bullets in the .243, but I haven't found it all that flexible. Where it works, it really works, but it isn't a universal solvent. In fact, a quick check of .30-06 data didn't find any listings for 26 with 180's, and a lack of data generally indicates a powder isn't particularly suitable for that applicatiojns. I'd be inclined to try RL-23 instead."
_________________________________________


M D - I have a question or curiosity.

180 gr in 30-06 is a MID weight (imo) and not heavy for caliber. It 'seems' TO ME that Rl 26 'might' work pretty good in the 06.
I have NOT looked for loading data, understood. I would 'think' we could EXTRAPOLATE a safe starting place and NOT get in trouble.
I understand too low pressure can also be a problem but I'm NOT thinking of squib or plinking loads.

In your professional opinion do you think Rl 26 is TOO slow burning for the 180 gr in the 06 ?

Jerry

Re 19

When all else fails, Reloaders 17.

I agree, RL 16. 130's in the 270 and 150's with the 30/06. I like it in my 270's.

4350

Yep 4350..either one

4350. Hands down.

4895 will work too.

Surprised Re 22 hasn't been mentioned..Fantastic in both even if it is a little "sensitive"..

If you're not looking for the very last attainable FPS and want max accuracy, H-4831 will be damn hard to beat.

If you can find it try RL 26. I have 2 270s and one shoots 150 Partitions a little under 3000 FPS and the other having a 24 inch barrel gets 3040 FPS. My 22 inch 30/06 clocks 2860 FPS with 180 Accubonds. This is without any high pressure signs at all.

Regards Keith

Pass me the RL26...

I'm no gunwriter, but Go over to the nosler forums, guys over there loading 180's with rl26 and getting phenomenal results.. I use rl26 in my 06 with 200 accubonds and in my 270 with 145gr eld-x

Thanks all for the replies so far.

For what it is worth, .270/150 and .30/180 have very similar sectional densities (SD), .279 and .271 respectively. Since SD is effectively weight (or mass)/area, pressure is force/area, and Newton tells us Force = mass x acceleration, it would seem that similar pressure curves would give us similar accelerations and thus similar velocities. Now, the .270 has a bit more relative bore friction to overcome because the amount of bore circumference/area is a bit greater than for the .30-06. Having a bit higher SD, it also might require a bit more pressure to get similar velocity. This may tend to work out because the two cases hold close to the same amount and a full case (same charge weight) of the "perfect" powder should give a bit higher pressure curve in the smaller bore of the .270.

The upshot of all that mumbo jumbo is that is makes sense that for similar case capacities and similar SD bullets, there ought to be some powders that are suitable for each. That said, all the number crunching in the world isn't the real world.
Based on what I find in Gun Gack I, a bit north of 2850 is likely attainable with the .30-06/180, and maybe a bit more with the .270/150. I'm encouraged because I don't believe Mule Deer will publish "stupid hot" data.

I'm not surprised H4831, H4831sc, or Hunter was mentioned. I was wondering about R-26, but it seems the jury is still out on it.
If Dirtfarmer is serious about pulling my loony card (and I am not nearly as loony as many here), then if I need to I will go with a different powder in each. A pound looks like about 120 rounds. Even with practice, that is a good bit of shooting for big game rifles. On the other hand, it wouldn't take me long to go through 60 rounds of each, so I'm going to be buying more than a pound, that's for sure!

If it helps me hold onto my loony card, I did just spring for 8 lb. of TAC and a big pile of 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips to get to loading for a .223 A-Bolt Varmint BOSS (probably 1/12 twist) that I have owned a long damn time and shot far too damn little. Those Evil Black Rifles are fun, and some pretty accurate, but I find keeping up with brass and reloading it easier with a bolt gun.

H4350
-or-
RL17

If that’s the choice, try RL-23; similar performance, better temp stability.

DF

H-4831

If you like 4350, you should be happy as well with RL 17......very similar burn rates. I’ve been very happy with RL 17 with the few cartridges I’ve used it in ! memtb

hmmm, sounds promising, thanks !







hmmm TWICE !

Veddy interesting PLUS on the Nosler forums you'd think there'd be some common sense too (?) .

At least I'd not be afraid to do some testing --starting BELOW max charges-- with Rl 26 and 180s in the 06.


You know what they say, " Great Minds and all "........ L O L !!

Jerry

Yes, RL 26 is a wonder powder for heavier bullets in both. 3000 fps is easy to attain in a 22" tube/ .270 wcf. RL 16 for the lighter bullets...I might sell all my 4831's and 4350's.

While RL-26 may turn out to be a great powder with 180's in the .30-06, I tend to wait for pressure-tested data with new powders, ESPECIALLY newer, very progressive burning powers like RL-26. This is because so many super-progressive powders have turned out to actually produce pressures well above what SAAMI considers a safe level when actually pressure-tested, despite a lack of "pressure signs."

This happened with RL-17 a LOT when it appeared, mostly because it was released with almost no pressure-tested data. Consequently, handloaders started working up loads using traditional pressure signs, and reported 17 was a magic powder, getting up to 200 fps more from a wide variety of case/bullet combinations.

The big problem is that traditional pressure signs don't normally appear even with less-progressive powders until around 70,000 PSI, and sometimes 75,000 PSI. This has been demonstrated many time, and ne example is the reason the 7mm STW "lost" over 200 fps 140-160 grain bullets during its transition from wildcat to factory round. The original, widely-published wildcat loads, worked up with "pressure signs," turned out to produce 70,000-75,000 PSI.

The same basic thing occurred again when RL-17 was introduced: After pressure-tested data started appearing, it turned out that while 17 did sometimes produce another 50-100 fps in a few cartridge/bullet combinations, in general it wasn't any more magic than quite a few existing powders.

In fact, the same is true of a bunch of today's newer powders. While they often prove to produce a noticeable velocity gain in specific combinations, no powder yet has appeared that gets a LOT of extra velocity in a wide variety of rifle cartridges without frequently exceeding 65,000 PSI.

Whether the SAAMI maximum of 65,000 PSI (the highest pressure they allow for any commercial rifle cartridge) should be heeded is another question. Obviously quite a few handloaders regularly exceed 65,000 PSI without major problems. In fact, the ammo from some "proprietary" rifle companies (meaning they produce rifles and ammo but don't belong to SAAMI) has been demonstrated to get 70,000-75,000 PSI. (Interestingly, the companies that do this just about universally ascribe the extra velocity to case and/or chamber shape, but so far every time somebody pressure-tests their ammo and rifles, the pressures have been a lot higher than 65,000 PSI.)

But SAAMI has been around for over 90 years, and their maximum of 65,000 PSI has been pretty well demonstrated to provide a safe margin of error for when certain conditions might affect pressure. Most handloaders tend to work up loads at temperatures around SAAMI's standard 70 degrees, but despite the proliferation of powders that burn more consistently at various temperatures, I haven't seen one yet that doesn't start to gain quite a bit of velocity (and hence pressure) at temperatures above 80. And pressure laboratories see the same thing. The heat-gains aren't as large as with many older powders, but apparently no powder manufacturer yet has been able to eliminate pressure gains at warmer temperatures. And there are also other factors that can cause pressure increases aside from higher temperatures, including moisture or dust inside bores.

Which is why I tend to rely on actual pressure-tested data, rather than handloader reports, when suggesting loads, especially with newer powders where pressure-tested data is lacking. RL-26 may indeed prove to be as great with 180's in the .30-06 as it is with 150's in the .270, but so far I haven't been able to find any pressure-tested data to confirm that.

However, some other powders have been pressure-proven to provide excellent velocities with both 150's in the .270 and 180's in the .30-06, among them the powders I suggested in my earlier post.

Sincerely, Thank you.


Jerry

Don't even understand a limiting choice mentality.

I've been reloading both for about 40 years. IMR 4350 is a great powder for both rounds. I shoot 150 grain Partitions in my 270 Win and 180 grain Partitions in my 30-06.

Yep

To illustrate and elaborate:

I have cartridges/cals, 6mm Rem, 6.5X55. 270 W, 284 W, 7 mm RM, 30-06, 300 WM & 8mm RM..... IIRC. There are multiple rifles w/in those.

I 'COULD' use IMR, H 4350 as my ONE and ONLY powder for all of them, and not give up a lot in the velocity department.

Now, if I calculated HOW MANY lbs. of powder I'd need for all the bullets used in ALL of those........ it would be a sizeable NO. of pounds.

That could become problematic...... we HAVE seen shortages -- real or manufactured -- in the powder OR political arenas.

I feel it's to my advantage to use DIFFERENT powders among those rifles and NOT be dependent on ONE powder. Within 60 or so miles of my place I have multiple sources of reloading components PLUS those on line.

TO ME -- it doesn't matter if I have 30 lbs of different powders OR 30 lbs of 4350. YMMV

You only have to please yourself.


Jerry

jwall, I understand your position, and can agree with your philosophy. Even if it’s not the “best” for each/all applications...I’ll often settle for “good”, while maybe not “great”! memtb

R26 is doing well with the 180-220 grain bullets in the 30-06 according to the various message boards. Most loads do not seem overboard when compared to tested data for the 270. Velocities are good but not way over what some other old standbys produce so looks good.

I like RL-17 in my 6.5-284. Optimal performance without showing pressure.

As they say, when you DO see signs of pressure with RL-17, you're WAY over SAAMI limits. Progressive burning powders don't tend to have marked pressure spikes, their pressure curves are smoother.

Now, H-4350 is a good bit more temp stable than RL-17, and probably easier on throats. RL-17, like other progressive type powders, are said to be harder on throats. Even though the 6.5-284 has a less than stellar reputation for burning barrels, I like RL-17 in that round for accuracy and performance. I don't shoot it enough to eat out the throat or trash the barrel. Besides, they make new barrels every day...

DF

I am liking R16 so far and it loads almost charge per charge with R17 sometimes one will do better than the other but any trade off goes to R16 as it is as stable or better than the Enduron powders. No idea on throat erosion but doubt that it is much if any better than R17. R16 has applications in the 270 and 30-06 and is a top choice for the light to medium weight bullets in either cartridge. I wonder what the actual numbers are for round counts with the different powders? I would bet the differences are not huge but could be wrong about that.

Dirtfarmer, I was planning to try RL 17 in my 6.5-284 with 139 Scenars. Do you have any suggested start points, or for that matter....end points! memtb

Ended up with 48.8 gr. RL-17 with 140 gr. Hunting VLD @ 3K fps. So you may want to drop back a tad to start and check load data.

Works for me.

DF

My issue is that in my part of the country, you might possibly find yourself shooting in 100+ temperatures. Stating the obvious, I'd much rather deal with an under performing load in cold temps than an over pressure on a hot day.

reloader 22 is ok too

Thanks a bunch! What was your preferred primer? memtb

Fed 210

DF

Dirtfarmer, Thanks! I suspected that, but had to ask! Thanks again! memtb

I have tried several of the slower powders and I always come back to IMR or H-4350 in both the 270 and 30-06, and even my 270WSM.
4350 has been the best powder in all 4 of my 270s. Although I am using Accurate 4350 in one 270.
I use H-4350 also in one of my 06s behind 180 trainers. .

I too have found the Accurate 4350 quite a bit slower than my H-4350 but it still appears faster than conventional H-4831. Haven’t tried any short cut stuff except for 7828 SC. It wasn’t the greatest in my 270s.

I guess I am in the realm of those who are over-pressuring their loads, but I can’t for the life of me see how there is any danger if there is no sticky bolt lift and, especially, still have easy case extraction with primer pockets that are still a press fit.
Of course I use that methodology only in a bolt action, and I would never load that way in a lever or gas gun.

This was going to be my suggestion. It's been great in my 30/06 with 180's and if I wasn't using RL26 in my 270 I'd be using the RL16.

Imr4350

H-4350 is more temp stable.

DF