Hello, I've got a want for a new medium bore...for no real reason other than to have another. My only medium at the moment is a rem7600 in 35 whelen. Have plenty of small bores (243, 270, 7 rem, 30-30, 300 savage, 30-06, and a slew of ww2 cartridges original and sporter)so I want another medium. Do yinz guys think I should consider 338 win or 325 WSM? Another 35 whelen or any other .358? Or something different entirely? Thanks

Hate to be a buzzkill, but after a 35 Whelen, where ya gunna go?You done arrived.

JMO.

I know nothing else is needed in NA, especially PA where I hunt. It's definitely a want, not a need.

35 Whelen is easily my favorite too. Another but in a bolt gun is enticing but then I'd have to hear about how much better a 338 is for awhile longer

I'd be pulled in two directions, especially if I already had a .35 Whelen.

One woud be a 9.3x62, the other a 375 H&H.

338RCM

Aren't both of those the same direction? Just kidding. I'd lean 9.3 just to be a bit different maybe and to make brass from my -06 family if need be. Both great!

What can you make 338 rcm brass from?

375 Whelen

I considered sending an -06 of the JES to be rebored to one. Do you have one? I here problems with the tiny shoulder on it and especially the 40 whelen.

From experience seeing MANY cartridges used to kill game, I am of the opinion the 35 Whelen and the 9.3X62 and also the 338-06 are actually better options for 90% of the hues such a rifle will be used for when compared to the belted magnums with the possible exception of a 375H&H. But the 375 requires a magnum length action and hold less ammo (I am unsure if that is important either, but I throw it in here as an illustration.

I have owned and use many 300 Mags, and a few 338s in the last 50 years, but other then one classic Mauser in 300H&H, I have sold them all. But I cling to my 9.3s and I regret selling the last 338-06 I had.

It is true the belted mags and the super magnums (404 Jeffery and 416 Rigby bases shells) shoot flatter, but for 95% of the hunting of game over 250 pounds, long shots (over 400 yards) are not needed. They are commonly done these days and that is true, ---- but in 1/2 century of hunting elk and moose and with a handful of bears bison and caribou thrown in too, I have never, not even one time, had a need to fire at any big game over 400 yards as a hunter or as a guide. I have shot quite a few deer and some antelope "way out there" when I was younger, but I guess I grew out of it. There simply was no reason to do it other then to prove I could (To who I am not sure).

But coming back to the question:
I would say your choice of the 35 Whelen is excellent. So would be the 338-06 and the 9.3X62.

The 338-06 is ballisticly the same as the old 333 Jeffery or just a bit more.

The 35 Whelen ballisticly is the same as the the old 35 Rigby.

The 9.3X62 was the #1 most popular hunting arm for the residents of many African nations for about 50 years, and even today it is in the top 5.

If you look at the writings of many of the African Pro-hunters from the teens through the 60s you'll see what they thought of the 333 Jeffery, the 35 Rigby and the 9.3X62 Mauser
No further argument can be made against them!

Are they "best"? Well I don't think there is any such thing as "best".

Are they extremely good? YES!

The thing I like about all of these 3 is the fact that work from 30-06 length actions, can be made a lot less costly then the bigger brothers, kill everything they are asked to very well, kick less, hold more ammo, and are less expensive to fire so becoming a good marksman through practice is not something only the very wealthy can do.

The argument that the 338 mag or 8MM Mag or a 340 Weatherby mag shoot flatter and therefor make a better deer, antelope or sheep rifle is not an argument I put any stock in.
Why?
Because a 270 Winchester does that even better then a 340 Weatherby. It's easier to fire well, holds more, weights less and kicks less.

The idea of a medium bore with 270 or 7MM Mag range is good for mental stimulation, but 1/2 a century of hunting and guiding have shown me it's exactly that. In your mind. It doesn't happen in the field unless you are a very lazy hunter, or unless you are trying to make long shots to say you did. If that is your game, then so be it. But for that game a 338 Lapua, 416 Chytac, 378 Weatherby or even a 50 BMG beat all the others out anyway.

Overall I believe the average hunter would serve himself better with any one of the three I mentioned here then they would with most of the magnums available, for the usual game you would hunt with a mid-bore.

.348 Win




P

Very well put! Do you think 338-06 or 9.3x62 would give me much either way that the whelen doesn't? More than another whelen I guess... I think I want another .358 of some sort or maybe .375 whether it be h&h or ruger. Don't care for a magnum other than the 375's or maybe 350 rem. 338 Win Is still an option due to availability of factory stuff alone. 358 Norma is intriguing but at that point I'd just go 375 I think. Just too hard, if only I could have them all...

I would absolutely love to have a 348 win but the $ for a nicer one on gunbroker is a bit much and JES and others don't seem to offer it to rebore one of my 336's. Shame I say.

35 Norma!

Thanks for replies! I think I'm narrowed down to (top picks) 338-06, 358 win, 350 rem mag, 35 whelen in a bolt this time or 9.3x 62. (Still semi considering) 338 win mag, 375 h&h and 375 ruger.

As I said above.. 358 Norma is very intriguing but at that point I'd go to a 375. I'd imagine that recoil would be about the same so I'd rather send the bigger bullet. I may be very wrong? Haven't fired either.

I've fired 338 win loaded to max with 250 grain and that's about as much as I want to get behind for more than a few at a time. I'd just guess 358 Norma is a bit more and along the lines of the 375 h&h or ruger in recoil. But less available?

.375 H&H

Why h&h over ruger? Only ask cause I can probably have one of my -06 rebored to 375 ruger. Or buy a mossberg patriot 375 ruger for a fraction of the cost of an h&h. Though I'd need to add weight...they claim 7lbs which means ouch.

I have a gap between 30-06 and 375H&H. Don't have a want or a need but if I were to fill it, it would be with a 338-06. In my dotage I am tending to fill gaps below 30 cal.

Cause the H&H ammo is found anywhere in the world,the Ruger is not.

What do you have under -06?

I reload, only for 6.5 jap and 300 savage right now. But all I'd need are the dies.

And here in PA, neither is on any shelf I've seen.

I reload also and I own 3-.375 H&H's,along with a .375 RUM.

Nice. That's the way I'd have to go for most medium bores as they are either too expensive or not to be found except online. Being in PA I have no need for a 375 but this was all about want...not need.

Alaska and Africa are high on the want lists too. Maybe someday but not someday soon.

I have 250 pcs I will sell ya!

Probably best to spend 3x more and get a nice CZ or Win 70 in the H&H. But I very likely won't ever make it to Africa. But still...you get what you pay for.. cz/win or mossberg. Hmmmm

I live in New Mexico and I used the .375's for jackrabbits. Just cause it is more for large game does not mean it cannot be used.

If I get one I'll take them. I'll have to check cdnn. They had m77 300 and 338 rcm's dressed in walnut for the longest time for like $399 or so.

If I want a jackrabbit I'll use 22 lr or wmr or hornet... wouldn't you?

I'm sure my 30-06's can kill anything on the planet..let alone my whelen. It's a want thing...and 375 is def up there.

.375 RUM and jackrabbit.


It's called "practice" the more you practice with a rifle (no matter the caliber) the better you will get.

That is a beautiful rifle sir! And a nice little meal.

A meal for the coyotes,I don't eat jackrabbits.

Thank you Buzz!

35 Norma is not a magnum length action.

9.3x62

Correct. 338 win necked up basically yes? I think your gonna be on the doorstep up the 375 h&h in the recoil dept though.

Never a bad choice from all the info I've gathered. Never even seen one in person though. I know zastava chambers them and the 375 in a Mauser action but after not finding any available I bought a 7mm-08 of the same make.

Why'd you shoot it then?

Nope, don't have one, but always wanted one.

The shoulder problem is a myth on the 375. Less so on the 40.

Practice for a hunt I was going on.

They're a menace for one, and good target practice for two. Also, they're so badly ridden with parasites, it isn't wise to eat them.

Note to self..don't eat jackrabbit.

Then I want a 400 at some point. A lot of loads seem to equal the 450-400 nitro. Out of an -06 case!

JES rebore can make an old -06 into either for $250 so it seems on their website. Reviews are quite good.

2150 fps with a 400 grain bullet seems too good to be true from an -06 case but many say they do so.

I'd think you should just buy targets..but we all do things differently. Good hunting.

or maybe the .338 Federal.....

If you are hunting Alaska, Canada or a yearly big elk hunter, then I would consider a .338 Winny and full throttle 225 grain bullets. If your mainly hunting white tails and maybe a black bear in PA then I would look for a lever gun in .35 Remington or .356 Winchester. Either one with a XS or Skinner receiver sight and a XS front sight will put some fun into your hunting.

Nothing carries as easy to me as a slab sided lever gun.

Sectional density is a real thing unless you reload for a cartridge with premium bullets. 338 federal is a dead round that can't fit high SD bullets.

I have 2 marlin 336's. One with a 2-7 scope and one with peep sight. I don't need this medium bore or anything to cover any hunting in North America. I have too many rifles as it is the old lady says. I'm now down to a 338-06 (rebore of a 1903), another 35 whelen (rebore of same 1903), 338 win mag or 375 h&h. I think. Too hard....I want them all.....

Have a savage 110 in -06 too. Wouldn't ever not hav one in my stable.

Why buy paper targets when hunting varmints is like big game hunting. The angle,distance,getting closer and how quick I can get an accurate shot off is more important than punching paper.

Took this .270 Win out rabbit hunting.....



Paid off in November...

Buzz412,

When I was headed to Africa for an all iron-sight buffalo and plains-game hunt a while back, I used my aperture-sighted .375 H&H to shoot several dozen prairie dogs at ranges out to 150 yards. After that it was relatively easy to shoot much larger animals in the right place, even beyond 200.

Elkhunternm is correct: Shooting varmints is excellent practice for big game hunting.

As one with considerable experience with a 40 Whelen (properly known as the 400 Whelen) I can assure the shoulder problem is a myth in the 400 Whelen also. I have used mine for 10 years, done extensive load development and shot many hundreds of rounds(1200+) and have never had any of the mythical headspace issues. The late Michael Petrov was friend and the one who inspired me to build mine. Michael wrote a couple of great articles on the 400 and probably had as many rounds through his as I do through mine with the same findings.

2150 with a 400 grain bullet is a reality.

I have changed my mind on this subject many times since my first shot in 1962.
Growing up in Australia where there is no DOW, no seasons or bag limits and you simply knocked on a farmers door and asked if you can hunt there meant that the several thousand animals shot by me and many thousands shot by others in my hunting camps, has seen an awful lot of cartridges and loads used to do what amounts as, the same thing.

I took the roller coaster up from the .222 Remington to the .460 Weatherby with multiple variants of the same caliber, meaning various chamberings and considerable loads tried to the point of now..............

The point of now, means if I was logical and rational in cartridge choices especially relating to "Gaps" which I no longer believe in means that simple is better, practice is more valuable and confidence is premium.

Probable the best twosome I owned was a pair of Rigby;s, a .275 with factory fitted Kahles 2-7 and a double in .350 Rigby No 2. With this pair I could hunt open or timbered areas and proficient with either in its range capabilities.

As of today, my thinking is to walk away from cartridge choices and concentrate on a pair of rifles that are similar.same so as never to be strangers. During my magnum days I stayed clear of the .308 and .30/06 but eventually chose a Winchester Featherweight in .30/06 as a reasonably light and practical all rounder. So have many others. I did trade it off briefly for a .338 Ruger but bought it weeks later because I missed it and knew it was one of the most accurate factory rifle I ever tested to that point.

Here is where I differ to others here. I do not believe in cartridge gaps, I learned there are only animal gaps and even then most of those perceived gaps can be distorted by range, terrain and field difficulties to again, create a window for options such Stainless over blued, long barrel over short, magnum over standard case, and so on.

I like hunting so am not much interested in the fad of long range shooting. I have killed at 600 yards with a 4 foot hold over and at 300 with a straight on hold so I understand the arguments or self imposed justifications some use.

I do not believe the "Most Accurate rifles in the world" claims because I have during rifle reviews seem a great many of factory rifles out shoot customs costing many times the factory equivalent. I have also seen these same Rigby priced plastic rifles miss some spectacularly easy shots at .30/30 ranges.

So where am I going with this.......

I have more rifles that I need and will never wear them out with the limited short season hunting in the US. There is no open seasons unless you are culling pigs and that is a different market. I like a .30/06, a .458 because with Barnes X bullets, it is no longer the 100 yard stopping rifles is was designed to be. The .375 is more logical and practical but I never warmed to it like I did with the .458's.

I like the practicality of the 7mm Weatherby though it is strangely one of the only Weatherby cartridges I have neither owned or used. Of the big 3, I like the .460 as it is built correctly for the recoil and more versatile that any scribe has demonstrated. I hate reading articles on the .460 as they are full of stupid and ignorance. The .458 is more practical for the average hunter as it is a try stopper and with the lighter weight Barnes X bullets, far more versatile that historical reports.

This topic should be forcing readers to invent the animal that cannot be taken with a .30/06 loaded with a 200gn TTSX or a 220gn Woodleigh or Partition that "CAN" be taken with a .375? If anyone can wrap their mind around that, then because every boy in the world had ADD during his school days, you would find yourself becoming distracted yet again by options within the same area based on Stainless over blued, long barrel over short, magnum over standard case, and so on.
John

Not enough difference between a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62 to keep you up at night.

How about either a .375 H&H or a .375 Ruger?

i would buy a common cartridge either a 338 Win.Mag. or a 375 H&H

.338 Fed for most PA hunting, and lighter, slightly shorter rifle.

.338/06 if you might want a bit more velocity for a flatter trajectory. Some .338 bullets are pretty slippery.

I've seen some good deals on nice .325s on places like CDNN. Pretty sure one could make brass from .300WSM in a pinch.

You could punch it out to 35 Gibbs and be very close to Norma Magnum velocities!

You get good on running jack rabbits and running deer and elk become easy. You'll never get that kind of experience on paper.

"The 338-06 is ballisticly the same as the old 333 Jeffery or just a bit more."

I thought it was closer to the .318 Is it Rigby or Westley- Richards. Damn memory banks are a bit in a funk this afternoon.
Paul B.

B-.39, hands down

Just not a fan of killing just to kill myself but wouldn't condemn somebody for it. If it's good practice for you then kill away!

I'll stick to paper targets and eat what I shoot but I ain't mad at you. Do your thing!

I've heard of this Petrov and seen links to articles of his but none worked. 2150 at 400 grain from an 0-6 case is amazing! Seen enough people claim it that I definitely believe it but hot damn...that's some serious muscle.

True indeed

Not a bad thought

35 whelen is basically a 350 rigby too I think.

What all have you done to this magnificent thing?

Do you hunt bears in PA ?? Your bears are world class. You never know, in PA when you may be face to face with a black bear that dwarfs most inland grizz. I do know that there's a decent number of PA bear hunters that subscribe to the belted .37 school.

Yep.

338 Federal, easy to make brass from .308 Win. and plenty of oomph for anything in PA.

I live in westmoreland county now but my camp is in crawford county. Canadohta lake. Uncle who's place is a half mile away sent picture of a bear track next to tape measure... 13". Probably 6-700 pound bear. Is that not something a 7-08 or mag, 30-06 or 35 whelen can't take? I think any of those will work fine. I want a new medium bore for want, not need. A 30-06 WILL kill anything on earth. I greatly appreciate the power/aura of 375 h&h and it's a strong choice now. But def not needed for anything in North America.

I've long wanted a 375 h&h or 338 Winnie. Really wanting to look into rebore of one of my -06 family to 400 whelen now. Just too many damn good choices.

Rear track. About 7-8 inches wide at least.

Black bears are very timid..even the ole "mother with cubs"

Stand beside a dead 700 pounder once and get back to me as to what rifle you REALLY wish you had your hands wrapped around if you saw it live......... 😉

Gotta love a 70 Featherweight. They're like looking at fine art.

Probably 7mm-08, 7mm rem, 30-06 or 35 whelen. They all shoot well enough. If you've been around black bears much you'd understand.

Nice deer. Still don't see killing 6 pound animals with one and letting them rot but we all have our ways. Another beautiful rifle. Stick with what works!

I’m telling you a 35 norma!!!!

I don't see how it makes you any better imho. Im not sure but I don't think our snipers train hitting running targets? I think it's a waste of a $2-$3 bullet to kill something for no reason other than to kill it. If that practice makes you better or more confident continue but I'll never find it anything but silly and wasteful myself. Maybe why I'm not a great hunter.

When you buy one, let me know. Lol. I'll sign up for crazy too.

Custom build is about the only option. $$$ Factory ammo is non existent and to reload is $$$. Recoil is probably the same as 375. I think it's a great round but a bit too far off the charts for me I think.

I walk my woods for miles in a loop. Usually just have my 380 and a buck 102. If your afraid of black bears I'd say look out for your shadow.

Hi Buzz412. I tried to read this whole thread and the one thing I missed was, is this new "want" a rifle you are going to build, or something you want to be able to buy ready-made?
You've had some great suggestions, and I can get behind anything that starts with a number and ends with "Whelen" so both the .375 and .400 (use a .416 bore) are great.
I don't think you have thrown down on what kind of action you want. If you can find a cheap Savage 99 in .308 you can do a rebarrel to .358 or .338 Fed and have a fine rifle for PA. Or you can mortgage the house and buy an original savage 99 .358. I got crazy lucky and found a cheap used savage 99 .358 barrel and had Frank Wells swap it onto a 99E for me.
Here's another great idea. I am in the process (a process that may take a LONG time) of building a 9.5x57, AKA the .375 Rimless Nitro Express. This is the .375 bore with an approximate (the shoulder is slightly forward) 8x57 Mauser case. You can think of it like "as the .358 is to the .308, the 9.5x57 is to the 8x57". So me and another fella have located the reamer we need, and are going to partner up on it. But the more the merrier and we can cut the costs if more folks want to jump in on their own 9.5x57 project
Anybody else interested chime in. Should be great for cast boolits and the 270 grain Hornady should handle anything that isn't suited for cast.
Best of luck in your quest for a new medium bore!
Rex

I think you've already got a great medium bore with that 35 Whelen, but I understand the desire for something else...

About ten years ago I happened into a wonderful Ruger Number One in 375 H&H. Have used it on several black bear, and it does a fine job. I like the way it handles. It's quite accurate. I've gotten good at loading it in a hurry.

Normally I use a 260 or 270 gr bullet at about 2650 fps. I've also loaded the 300 grainers at about 2500 - 2550, but have only used them on targets.

Did I need the 375? Of course not! I've happily taken bear with my good ol' 30-06, but dang, I sure do enjoy handloading, shooting, and hunting with the 375 H&H.

Regards, Guy

It's a want and preferabaly a new buy but I'd rebore my 1903 to another 35 whelen or 338-06. Now interested in 400 whelen if done right.. I do really want a savage 99 but I'd have it in 250-3000. My 300 savage is a 7.7 jap type 99 sporter, very well done. The bore is still 7.7 just set back a turn or so and barrel cut down and crowned with Lyman front and peep. Still shoots anything I've fired from factory or bench under 2 moa. Considered loading it with .311 but it fires .308 good enough for me with peeps. I have an 8x57 sporter not so well done too that I'd like to make proper?

I'd love a ruger #1 in anything I could get. They are imo the most beautiful rifle ever made.

One of my favorite rifles is my type 38 6.5 jap. Cut to 19 inches and crowned, weaver front and peep, jeweled bolt, timney trigger and fajen stock. Great pa woods gun with the 156 Norma.

That type 38 can handle any 700# PA bear or elk. I promise.

Maybe we should get together some day and set a spell. You can explain black bears to me.

Oryx killed with the above .358 NM using a 250 grain .358" North Fork.

I told you!! 358 Norma. 🤗

Go on a long search. Prepare to spend the money. Get a sav 99 in .358 win. Just what the doctor ordered.

]


I Almost bought one but opted for a 350 rem mag

Get another 35 Whelen. I’m a 7 mag guy, I have 4 of them.

Are you SURE you're a 7 Mag guy ??? 😁

Back in the 50's & 60's, most of the young guys in the Pennnsy farm country learned to hunt with Remington pumps in 35 Rem caliber. Like the 300 Savage & 358 Win, I think most of us seriously underestimate the effectiveness of these calibers on game.
Their relatively mild manner, typically delivering adequate hunting accuracy, make it easy to deliver a bullet to just the right spot. With store bought ammo.
Having said all that, I have drank the koolaid and hunted with a bunch of higher performance stuff. When I look back at 50 years of big game hunting, at least 99% of the game I've taken, could have been handled just as well with far milder cartridges.
As evidence, I rolled a bull moose last fall with a 300 Savage & 2 150gr Partitions. I'm learning, it's just real slow.

.22LR, .30/06 and a .458.
That makes the .30/06 the medium bore.

Buy yourself a 348 M71. Seriously it is the most natural shooting rifle I own. It is just flat fun to shoot. I have a 300 H&H, 220 swift, 257,bob, 375 H&H, 33 win, 38-55, 45-70, 6.5 and 270 and that is by far the most natural and fun shooting cartridge I own. I know budget is what it is, but a pre war m71 with a bolt peep is for me the perfect rifle.

With those three you don't need anything else, except I'd probably substitute a .375 for the .458, and just might add a .223.

So why do we even have any other cartridges? Because it's not the Soviet Union, that's why.

After reading this post I find a lack of interest in the 358 win, which is, and always has been, a very over looked cartridge. There are a few on here that bring up the 358, but most have gone off into bigger is better. look I own 35 Rem, 358 win and 35 Whelen, but a 99 358 is a great choice, just keep your eyes open, look for a trade. or a Ruger bolt gun in 358, I've seen some reasonable prices on newer Rugers.
But, for fun find a Browning 1895 in 30-06 and have it taken out to 375 Whelen or 375 Scovill, always wanted one, but ran across a Browning 71 in 348 and re-barreled it to 50 Alaskan. If you run across a 30-40 you could have Jess take it out to 35-40 or 35 Winchester. It just sounds like your looking for something unique to play with. So take a walk on the wild side.

I have an 1895 in 35 Whelen.

It's the last gun I would ever sell.

I always figured anything below 375 to be a small bore.

I went the something entirely route, my new medium bore is nearing completion, it's a 400 H&H built on a classic M-70 action, i'll start load workup with the 400gr Woodleigh's, Swift A-Frames and Alaskan Bullet Works bonded bullets, a couple boxes of 400gr Woodleigh FMJ's will be along for fun, it should be around 8.5lbs all up, a nice lighter weight African plains game rifle, You may want to consider a nice 375 H&H if you choose not to go the custom/semi custom route.

For my own uses I have come to very much appreciate the old 8X57 and from there I jump up to 9.3X57 (2 of them ) and then a 9.3X62 as well as a 9.3X74R.

The 9.3X57 is a bit of an odd-ball in the USA, but when you see them work you come to like them. Very much like a 358 Winchester or a bit more depending on how it's loaded and the brass is made with just one pass over the expander ball in the FL die set. I use the 8X57 brass instead of buying the (very) expediencies Norma brass.
Using 236, 250 270 and 286 grain bullets, it is a good little hammer for about anything you will shoot with it of 1000 pounds or less. Cool thing about this shell is that it is a simple re-barrel for about any M98 Mauser. It's a cheap project to do. The more I use them and see them used by 2 friends of mine who have rifles I made for them, the better Like the way they work.

The other 2, the 9.3X62 and the 9.3X74R have some following in the USA because of the limited runs Ruger and Remington made and the importation of the CZ rifle in the X62 shell. I load them both with 286 grain bullets at 2400 FPS and they seem to kill everything as well as my 375H&H does, from elk, moose, buffalo and they do good duty on smaller game too like deer and antelope.

When I lived in MN and hunted there and Wisconsin, met a ton of old guys who thought deer hunting began and ended with a Rem Model 14 or 141, in 35 Remington.... sure saw a ton of them being carried by old guys out come hunting season in both of those state's Northwoods...

8mm rem mag.

358 STW

358 Norma

I'm with John on the .458 Win Mag. As long as I own rifles, I'll not be without one. It is the most versatile of any cartridge in my experience and view; and I've owned and used many from the .22 Hornet to the .458 Win Mag, and in several versions. A 300gr TSX at 2400 to 2950 fps can just about do it all. If not, a 350 TSX at 2750 is no slouch! Want bigger, more like the "good ole' days"? A 470gr hard or soft cast at 1300 to over 2100 fps can topple the biggest and baddest! And, you need a .458 Lott? Just load your .458 WM "long". Long - heavy bullets can be loaded as long as your magazine allows, or in a Ruger #1, longer than a Lott!!! A 500gr at 2300 fps; or slow it to 1200 fps. There is no other Big Bore that has such a wealth of bullet weights and types as in .458-cal.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

9.3x62?