I used to tell my students on the first night:

1) There were no stupid questions, only stupid people.
2) We weren't laughing with you. We were laughing at you.

I seem just full of these questions lately. Feel free to laugh.

I'm starting to get curious about the body dies. I see the Redding dies out there. However, I'm also seeing folks talking about taking a Dremel tool to a Lee FL sizing die. However, I'm not seeing any instructions on exactly what to do with an FL die to make it a body die.

Exactly how does one make a body die?
Does it have to be a Lee? Would and RCBS die work as well?
Is this one of those things where if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be trying it?

The reason I'm asking is that the infamous Mauser From Hell managed to shoot one of the best groups I've ever shot after I started using the Lee Collet Die. Based on what I've seen in a couple of recent threads, I'll eventually need a body die. Redding doesn't make one for 8X57.

Access to a lathe? A carbide tool bit can cut through a case hardened FL RCBS die. The light show will be interesting as orange sparks will come off die body till you cut through case hardened outer shell. It doesn't do the tool bit much good, BUT it can be done.

Cut through die's side so the top is removed from a FL die and polish. I did this twice and also removed some of the bottom to make a small base die for a 300 RUM and 338 RCM.

Sadly, I don't. I have a Dremel tool and a drill press-- close as I can manage.

You could buy a 9x57 Mauser full-length die. The neck is only 1mm larger in diameter than the 8x57's, so would be .5 mm larger on each side of the neck, about .02 inch. This is pretty much what a body die is, a full-length sizer with the neck a little to large to size the case neck.

Unless you have a buddy with a lathe or are willing to pay a professional, your options are limited. Trying to do it with your equipment is an invitation to trouble, if not disaster.

First, ask Lee if they will hone out the neck. They have usually been pretty good about such work.

Another avenue you might want to explore is to see if Forster makes an 8x57 FL die and ask if they will hone out the neck of one of their available FL dies. They have generally been pretty cooperative in doing such semi-custom work. If no 8x57 die is available, perhaps a 7x57 could be done the same. I haven't checked the specs to see if they are compatible.

For a shop with the equipment, opening a hole in a cylinder is no big deal.

I didn't see Mule Deer's post. Makes a lot of sense.

Paul

I'd not sweat it until you need it; certainly wouldn't futz around grinding on your FL sizer willy-nilly. If your brass won't fit the chamber, adjust your FL sizer in steps until it just does. I've partial-sized for at least a couple of decades without issue.

Don't forget to check the case length and measure the necks on your loaded rounds.

Shaman, I don't see a direct answer to your question so I'll take a poke at it: a body die is just like a FL sizing die except it doesn't reduce the neck diameter. If you grind out the portion of a FL die so that it does not reduce the neck diameter of a case, you'll have a body die.

I once asked whether folks preferred to use the body die first, and then size the necks with the collet die, or vice versa. No one thought it made much difference but I decided for myself it's body sizing followed by neck sizing. That way there's no chance of body sizing disturbing neck straightness.

YMMV.

Buy the Redding FL Bushing Die. Remove the bushing. You now have a body die.

RiverRider,

My comment didn't explain a body die?--
"This is pretty much what a body die is, a full-length sizer with the neck a little to large to size the case neck.'"

That was in my post where I suggested buying a 9x57 FL die--which is cheaper than buying a Redding S-die (as 603Country suggested) and removing the bushing.

It's also POSSIBLE, since Redding does not make an 8x57 S-die. The only possible S-die that might work is their 7x57, except the 7x57 and 8x57 do not have the same body dimensions. The 8x57 and 9x57 do, at least closely enough to use a 9x57 FL die as a body die.

Since shaman doesn't have the tools to open the neck on a standard 8x57 FL die, it might also be cheaper to have a local machine shop do it.

I understood you clearly, John, but I thought that the idea of converting a FL die by altering the neck dimension using various tools and methods had not yet been made crystal clear. Just wanted to clarify for anyone who reads the thread now and later.

I did not know about the difference in body dimensions between 7x57 and 8x57.

Yes, they do.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049293?pid=656272
Leave out the bushing.
Enjoy,

$144.25 on sale for $99.99 at Midway. Wow.

He could probably have a machine shop open his die for much less.

Paul

I saw someone earlier that had done a Lee die using a Dremel tool.

I looked back; it was Dirtfarmer. Hopefully he'll check in soon and set us all straight.

Link

9.3x57mm die...


If you just want to make one out of an old die... put the die in a short piece of 1" copper tube (to protect the threads) into a vice crushing tube just enough to hold, use a grinder to grind the top of the die hard until good and hot, then after it cools, put in drill press and run a 3/8" drill down through the neck (from the inside so that there isn't any burrs).


Phil

As JB suggested....

I have bought 3 Body dies from Redding... like $30 each or so...223, 22.250 and 7/08....

That quickly taught me, but taking the spindle out of a die that is a caliber or two bigger, I end up with a body die...

Since I have a lot of dies for reloading stuff, I've got that covered...

and if that isn't clear... taking the spindle out of a Redding 260 Die, I have a 243 body die...
or taking the spindle out of an 06 die, I have a 270 body die...

my 6.5 x 57 or 7 x 57, makes a great body die for my 6m Remington.....

I've found used dies on line for cheap and at local gun shops..$15 or so for a F/L die sets...
makes it cheap to sacrifice the F/L die in those, to be opened up with a dremel...

Infidel,

Thanks for the info. Dunno why Redding doesn't list that on their website!

Seafire,

Yep, you can loads lots of rounds if you have plenty of dies on hand--one of the reasons I don't sell too many.

As an example, am doing a project on the 6mm-06. Instead of ordering a set of dies (which are pretty pricey) I can neck down .25-06 brass in my 6mm Creedmoor die, and use my .25-06 FL die as a body die.

I only have a couple of body dies, but they have occasionally been very useful. I had hundreds of 223 rounds loaded for my 223 Ruger Hawkeye when I decided to have it rebarreled. The new barrel had a tighter chamber than the factory barrel, so no rounds would now chamber. With the body die I set the case shoulders back a touch on the loaded rounds and solved my problem. Luckily, the new barrel was happy with the loads put together for the old barrel.

Am I being over cautious in thinking this may be hazardous to your health?

If you set the collet die up properly, use only that, and use that brass only in the one rifle, you may not need a body die at all. I'd be inclined to leave it until you find you need it. The day may in fact never come.

As I've said before, I have brass which has gone over 30 loadings, without ever being FL sized or "shoulder bumped". If it came out of your rifle's chamber it will go right back in again, unless you do something to it in the loading process to change that, or something is wrong (such as brass which was fireformed out of round, for example, in an oversized chamber). In fact given the recovery of elastic strain ("springback"), unless there's something wrong your brass will always come out of the chamber with a small amount of clearance.

This is the answer I like the best!!!

Actually, I'm one of those folks that never intentionally gets anywhere near MAX, so maybe you're right.

I'm not a gunwriter, but:

You aren't doing anything to the primer at all nor are you striking the cartridge violently. It's safer than using an inertia bullet puller.

After rebarreling a 22-250, I used a body die to slightly squeeze several hundred well-lubed rounds to fit the new, slightly tighter chamber. No problems at all--but I wore gloves, heavy shirt, and goggles just to be extra cautious.

Speaking of machine shop work.
I just read an article about hand dies and using a arbor press to do seating at the range when refining loads.

Anyone ever had a "socket made up so a seating die (or body die) could be used in the above manner?

Do you mean a sleeve which fits over a threaded die so you can use it in an arbore press? If so, sure; I've done it from time to time but am happier just using a Lyman hand press or my RCBS press attached to a box. I've been using that set-up for about fifty years. GD

Thanks Greydog.
I will look up the Lyman hand press.
It seems a good way to space out shots and keep the barrel cool for best accuracy.

When I'm feeling anal I drag my small arbor press and a set of LE Wilson straightline dies along to the range, and use one cartridge case to fire a five or ten shot group. Not very handy or fast but eliminates a couple variables. Makes firing a couple targets a slow-paced all afternoon exercise. Dependent upon having worked out the load in advance so dealing with scales- analog or digital- outdoors can be avoided and simple throwing of charges from a good measure an easy workaround. I shoot a lot of .30-06 and have "normal" Wilson dies for shooting jacketed stuff, and a custom set designed for loading .310 diameter cast bullets in same- and "Ne'er the Twain Shall Meet" (except when I screw up and take the wrong set along, which I'm saddened to say has happened. More than once. )

Body dies are nice but for a hunting rifle a standard FL die used just to bump the shoulder works pretty well, remove the expander and it is less likely to add much run out. You can run it through the collet die afterwards and it will be as concentric as that particular brass will allow. Many die makers will customize a die to your chamber usually for a very reasonable price. You could specify a "no size" neck and have the equivalent of a body die. The older reloading books had instructions on honing dies for your chamber. Sometimes it can be as simple as running a drill through the die like using a quarter inch carbide bit on a 6mm die to turn it into a body die.

Forrester makes a distinction between Body dies and Bump dies. The Body die sizes everything but the neck and a Bump die only the shoulder and immediate juncture of shoulder and body. Not sure if other makers use the same terminology.

This is a good piece of info on modifying dies: https://rickaverill.com/projects-past-and-present/lapping-reloading-dies/

He gets away with using a hand drill I assume because of his lap tolerances. On a bump/body die this is less critical.

When I was BR shooting, I always loaded at the range and when I am developing loads I may load at the range. The Lyman hand press is OK but the Lee is at least as good. I use Wilson hand dies, or homemade copies, for some rifles but use threaded dies (some factory, some custom) for everthing else. To keep barrels cool, I take more than one rifle. GD

More often than not it'll be sizing down the neck more than necessary which defeats the purpose of sizing with a collet die.

[/quote]

More often than not it'll be sizing down the neck more than necessary which defeats the purpose of sizing with a collet die.[/quote]

Agree but it doesn't seem to shorten brass life that much as primer pockets usually get loose about the time the necks start to split, if I anneal frequently enough I don't get neck splits at all. I added some info on the neck customization to my previous post that is good for FL or body die.

Forster's bump only die is the their bushing die, correct?

Arbor presses have very little leverage compared to a normal bench mounted press, regardless of the socket contraption, you may be able to get a seating die to work but it's not going to push a case into a body die and you'd still need leverage to pull it back out as well. A simpler solution I think is a combo press. Works with both hand and threaded dies. Doesn't have the muscle of a larger press like a Rockchucker but they're handy for light duty range loading when you don't have hand dies.

I have a few Wilson seating dies, some cut with the same reamer that chambered the rifle. Seats them pretty straight. I still check runout. Those use an arbor press. I’ve never sized with an arbor press. Why do that when there’s a Big Boss II Redding and Rockchucker on my bench.

DF

Now that's funny. If you have hair, a hat would have helped as well.

An arbor press is easier for loading at the range than a large bench mounted press.

I use a Lee hand press for loading at the range. It has more leverage than an arbor press. Works well.

DF

A Lee hand press is a good choice. I use them myself. I also use Lee Loaders.

You don't have to completely resize and load your cases. If all you do is de-prime, or de-prime and resize the case/necks, that helps a lot. You can finish at home.
I used an arbor press with my lee loaders at home, but at the range, it's easier to take a nylon or wooden hammer with you.

My portable arbor press has a handle 8" from tip to center of the pinion shaft. Although I don't full length size with hand dies in it anymore, I did for a long time. Properly lubed, the cases go in slick and easy, and ejection is with a push rod in the same press. (Essentially just flip the die over, drop the rod in, and push the case out.) I never felt handicapped by using it (except by its slowness, of course- and even then once I got used to it and built up a rhythm work goes surprisingly fast). The little beastie is rated at one ton- if a cartridge is so nasty that a ton of energy won't push it into the die there's something rotten in Denmark. (Full disclosure: I never FL sized anything bigger than .30-06.) Would I use it to radically alter a big case into something else, requiring a sh*t ton of force? Nope, it's not why I have it. The Big Mambo arbor press I have in my shop that generates multiple sh*t tons of force will though. (24" handle, 2" ram, 14" stroke,- plus ungodly extra force with its optional four foot iron pipe cheater bar. But the thing weighs hundreds of pounds and doesn't make the trip to the range very often...)

Anecdotally, some of my most accurate handloads in my life I assembled with Lee Whack-a-Mole dies, but I pushed with the little arbor press instead of whacked with a mallet.

All this talk about hand dies and arbor presses is all well and good, but 95%+ of my loading is with conventional presses at my loading bench in the middle of my living room floor. And no, I'm not married.)

Arbor press and lee dies.

Home bench.


Kit goes to range.

Lots of good info appeared over the past few days thanks to Greydog, Gnoahhh, etc (I am being lazy and don't want to page back for names mid post).

I was assuming for load development any FL resizing and priming would be done at home.
Figured that w/ set of QCd cases one could then select/adjust powder, seating depth and even projectile based upon observed results.
One could even get bunch of those little glass vials that laboratories use to hold pre measured powder charges.
But I suppose what you need depends on what you have available to you for a range, and who else uses it.

Thanks for sharing all this great info.

Correct the above is in regard to Redding dies not Forster.

You're not going to be able to use a collet die on the case if it's been ran through a FL die with the expander removed, the neck will be too small to accept the collet die mandrel. You can expand the neck with a separate expander mandrel then use the collet die, but that sounds like a lot of work.

Crow hunter,

Exactly--and also a lot more working of the neck.

I Am a late comer to this post, so I may have missed mention of this in the previous post, but why wouldn’t a Redding “Form & Trim” die not work as well for bumping the shoulder back?
As I understand it, the Form & Trim die sizes to outside SAAMI chamber specs. If this is true, then it wouldn’t affect the neck at all.
Comments?

Yep, and overworking the neck needlessly is a great way to introduce more runout to the end product even when useing a Lee collet neck die.

I would go with your idea of finding a local machine shop and see what they would charge to open up the neck of an existing die; or I would order a 9X57 full length die and pull the expander ball out as you also mentioned.

I use the Lee hand press at the range as well and its a wonderful tool. In fact I liked mine so much I bought one for my younger brother as a gift and he loves his as well

The form and trim die will usually work well depending on the dimensions. Most are meant to be used with a full length sizer so they do not size down to minimum dimensions. They do size the neck some but less than a FL die does. Redding are minimal sizing, RCBS FL size but less than their regular FL sizer.

When I use the FL sizer I do what used to be called partial sizing. But most of my dies have honed neck sizer portions. On my Lee Collet die mandrels I polish them down slightly and reduce the angled portion so it is more like an expand-er die. After this they will neck size a FL sized case. I only use the FL sizer on the 3-5th loading so cases get re-sized only 4-6 times depending on how long I keep the brass. I have not gotten donuts or split necks if I anneal at least as often as I FL size at every 3rd-5th loading. This works for me until I get a body die or a custom die for that rifle.