I have a CZ Varmint rifle in 17 Hornet.

Besides my various 221 Fireball rifles, the 17 Hornet is my favorite prairie dog rifle.


I find myself wanting a smaller, lighter rifle for work around the farm. Mostly pigeons and winged varmints.


Looking around the websites, I was surprised to see that 17 Hornet ammo is nearly a dollar a round. Looks like HMR ammo is about 12 to 15 dollars for 50.


I reload for the Hornet so price isn't quite as important.



Will I be satisfied with a HMR for a pickup gun, or should I just buy a lighter, smaller Hornet like a CZ American?



Is there 1000 fps difference? Is the HMR too loud to shoot with out ear plugs?


Any insight would be appreciated.

Yeah, there's around 1000 fps difference. Exactly how much depends on the loads--in my CZ 452 the A17 ammo, for the Savage autoloader, gets around 2800 fps, with the same 17-grain bullets as the standard HMR ammo. My handloads in the .17 Hornet get around 3800, but with the 20-grain V-Max, which holds on to velocity better than the 17-grain bullets in the HMR.

In general I'd say there's at least 100 yards difference in consistent performance, maybe more like 150. The longest shot I've seen anybody make with the .17 HMR was 303 yards--and the guy was one of my friends who'd never fired one before. His very first shot, before he had a clue about the trajectory, hit a prairie dog in the head. Generally around 250 is stretching it on PD's, usually requiring more than one shot to hit 'em, and 150-200 is better for consistent hits, exactly how far depending on the wind.

The HMR isn't as loud as the Hornet, but I still wear ear protection. That said, I shoot my .17 HMR a lot when starting out on a PD town, because the report doesn't scare them into their holes nearly as quickly as a centerfire, whether a .17 Hornet or .223. After the PDs in rimfire range are dead or down their holes, then the bigger rounds come out.

It's a great gopher round.

Buy the hornet...

Jim; my experience is limited to the HMR only so please take my comments with a grain of salt.

The 17 HMR I have a is a CZ, I forget the model but it is about 10 years old. My primary use has been on gophers (richardson ground squirrels) and tree squirrels. Most of my shots are taken from seated over crossed sticks, very effective out to 185 yards where my ability to judge hold over and wind becomes an issue.

Farmers I know who are not gun guys (so they have not been told or read that its too small) use the .17 HMR on coyotes with no complaints.

I would suggest having foam or rubber ear plugs available if you value your long term hearing. Especially if firing from within the truck.

Just my humble opinion. Hopefully others able to provide a more balanced perspective will chime in. (by the time I posted those voices already chimed in )

All the best.

GRF

Have you had your coffee yet?

He already has a .17 Hornet. It's in the first line of his post.

He could buy the lighter CZ Hornet, but the varmint-weight model isn't very heavy. Mine is less than 8-1/2 pounds with scope.

I like my HMR a lot, but I keep my shots under 175 yards, after trying it out to 250. It runs out of gas pretty quick. It should be fun on pigeons, crows, and other birds, but leave the coons alone.


I`'ve made those 250 yard shots on prairie dogs, but it was not pretty. Keep the ranges reasonable, and it is a lot of fun.

I have and shoot both the HMR and .17 Hornet. Mule Deer is spot on with his info as usual. For your intended purpose of light carry-around for winged predators and pigeon, you'd like the HMR. My son keeps one handy to keep starlings and sparrows away from his purple martin colony. Every HMR gun I've shot has been incredibly accurate once you find the right factory ammo. Miy Savage, for example, is deadly with 20 gr. loads but not so much with 17 gr loads. Others I've shot have been just the opposite.

Hearing protection is recommended because they do have a crack to them.

Another good option if you reload is to buy the lighter CZ as Ingwe suggested and download it to HMR velocities. Great excuse to buy another quality gun. 😀

To the OP, get a 17 HMR and a case of ammo. Because of neighboring working and hobby farms, I have used my CZ 17HMR for cats, raccoons, and even the deplorable 'possum.
It's up to the task with good shot placement.

I've become very interested in the .17 Hornet. Currently it leads the pack of possibles for this year's Contender project. But the Hummer is what I'd choose for what you describe. You can get a SS CZ 455 for about $400 now. Pretty good truck/barn gun I'd say.

For larger varmints the 20-grain CCI Game Point jacketed soft-point works very well, but the standard stuff (especially the 17-grain hollow-point) also works if put in the right place.

You will enjoy the 17hmr a bunch and it will be great for what you want. PM incoming

John, sad to say, but with the elderly, even caffeine doesn't always fill in the "gaps".

Jimbo, got a rar 17 hmr, got it on sale from Cabela’s for under $200, be just right for shootin birds around the farm for you and the kiddos

I've owned a Ruger 17 Hornet, found loading it a pain, so I didn't shot it much.

My first 17HMR was an early Marlin stainless HB, the most accurate of the 4 I've owned.

Others were a CZ 452 FS, Savage 93, and a Ruger RAR still have it.

Buy a 17HMR, No reloading, no brass to chase, accurate , though some are picky about which ammo they prefer.

F

My Marlin 17 HMR is very accurate. The ballistic tip style bullets shoot dime size 5 shot groups at 100 yds. The CCI hollow points not so much. The longest kill I've made with mine was a big groundhog at 153 laser verified yards. Shot him while he was standing 3 feet from his hole. He never made it an inch closer. No exit wound, but good performance.

Ron

Is anyone shooting the 17 WSM? Sort of splits the difference in the HMR and Hornet.

I bought a bunch of rifles at an estate sale and one was a low end Savage 9317 , I put a cheap Bushnell scope on it and it is unbelievably accurate for a rimfire. I ended up using it on short range coyotes and dumpster diving raccoons where it has proved unexpectedly effective using the 20 gr. HP's. It is relatively quiet and unless I am shooting paper I don't use ear plugs but one shot hopefully won't cause bad hearing loss.

HMR great barnyard gun..............I'd take the Hornet for truck carry

My Tikka T1x in 17HMR is scary accurate and kills far above its weight class.



P

Dang it, I am thinking I need a 17 HMR now.

I was happy with my .22 LR until I bought the Tikka.

What's the best "cheap" 17 HMR? Some of them are hard ugly.

DF

I have had friends get great results from the Ruger American HMRs, and in fact one liked his so much he bought three more for his kids--and was still pleased. But another good friend had such extraction problems with one that he got rid of it.

I have both the ruger 17 hornet and a ruger american in hmr. Also a cz455 varmint in hmr .The hornet is fun as heck from ground squirrels to rock chucks, but for smaller critters I love the hmr. Don't overlook the ruger american, that gun will shoot all day long with the cz. Like what was said no picking up brass either.

A HMR seems to be a popular choice.


I think I can reload Hornet cheaper....but I might get a tax return this year!

As you probably know, I have both. Sometimes, you just don't have time to load ammo, and the HMR is a lot of fun. I remember in 2002 when the HMR came out, I was thinking "WHY?", then I got a good look at the cartridges, and bought the first rifle I saw. I've still got it, and it still shoots really well. A few years later, when the Hornet came out, I was so happy with the HMR I had to buy the Hornet, too. Both are a lot of fun.

Easy choice for me - I hated loading for 20 caliber cartridges I can only imagine what a pain it must be trying to handle those tiny 17 caliber bullets.

I have a 17 HMR that I use on gophers out to 150-175 yds, for longer shots I pull out my 223. My local Ranch Supply store usually has Hornady 17 HMR ammo priced at $8.99 per box of 50 so everytime I am near there I pick up a couple of boxes, it doesn't take long to lay in a good supply before long doing it that way, and also the out of pocket price is not as noticable as laying out the money for a full case at a time.

I love my 22's LR's for gophers but I find myself using the 17 HMR a lot more than I ever thought I would.

drover

Yeah, the .17 HMR is really kind of ideal on gophers!

I've found the ammo to be even cheaper than when the HMR was introduced in the early 2000s, especially if you buy in bulk during sales. This is probably due to its continuing popularity, resulting in more efficient manufacturing.

Jim Conrad: I have had a LOT to do with both cartridges you mention.
I have owned a 17 HMR Rifle from the first month they were ever offered - I now have 5 (five!) Rifles and 1 (one!) pistol chambered in this incredible and and incredibly useful cartridge!
I heartily recommend you add the 17 HMR Rifle to your arsenal!
On occasion I will grab one of my 17 HMR Rifles and plink an invading Varmint around my house without ear protection - a round or two is very easily sufferable in my experience.
In my Smith & Wesson revolver in caliber 17 HMR I would not even consider shooting it without hearing protection.
17 HMR, yeah I can just about guarantee that you will be happy with one!
And it will indeed "compliment" the 17 Hornet also being available to you.
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a 17hmr... It is one of my most useful varmint rifles especially in the summer.. You should be able to get 50rd boxes for about 8.99.. I usually buy mine when I am in Montana.. Saves some on sales tax.. When I come across it at this price, usually pickup a carton.. I think you will love it around the ranch.. The one great thing is, I don't have apile of brass to reload when I am done shooting.. Any more that is a nice option...

I fondled a Ruger American 17 HMR today.

I liked it way more than I thought I would.


The stock was horrific.

Get the 17 WSM and you wouldn't need the Hornet or the HMR. And you won't have to waste time reloading.

https://ruger.com/products/77Series7717/specSheets/7219.html

"The stock was horrific." Mr Conrad, I've been looking at the RAR's in.223, get on you-tube there are lots videos on stiffening the stocks, some guys use J-B Weld.

DakotaDeer, I have not found much (if any) noticeable difference between the A17 .17 HMR ammo and .17 WSM ammo on varmints in my rifles. Both get 2800-2900 fps, the A17 with 17-grain bullets and the WSM with 20s.

Have seen a BIG difference between the .17 Hornet and .17 WSM....

Have also not found it necessary to stiffen RAR stocks in several years. Sometimes the tip of the forend needs to be rasped a little to make sure the barrel's really free-floated, but the forends have been plenty stiff for a while.

I guess I was not worried about any stiffness problems.....never really looked that hard at it. Not sure if it was floppy or not.


Dang thing is just.........not my style! There is no butt plate.


I guess for the price its pretty good. Anyone make a nice laminate stock for the American?


I was surprised how well the metal was finished. Very surprised. It didnt have the usual bead blast polish job.



They seem to take the same 77-17/22 mags. Is that correct?

BOYDS offers a couple of laminated wood stock options for the rimfire American Predator rifles.
As far as I know, Ruger uses the same rotary mags in their 77-rimfire mag rifles as they do in their American-rimfire mags.

The mags are the same.

I was pretty much in the same boat about them but then I bought one because the price was so good that I couldn't pass it up, after seeing how well it performed I got past those issues. It has a buttplate but it is another piece of plastic and it has never caused any issues. The stock itself, while ugly to a wood guy, is very servicable and will end up growing on you.

What the heck it is just another farm gun that will end up living most of its life in the pick-up anyway.

Try it - you will like it.

drover

Life's easy, don't make it hard. From the factory:
https://ruger.com/products/americanRimfireTarget/specSheets/8369.html

You're gonna put the gun companies right out of business, owning one of them chronographs and all!

Have you considered a 5mm Rem Mag?

Why the hell would he, since ammo is only made Aguila, which may or may not be making is this month?

Have heard from SO many people that the 5mm Remington is the be-all and end-all of rimfire hunting rounds, but had a friend who owned one back when it was introduced, and it did just about what I expected with the Remington ammo featuring bullets of about the same weight (as I recall 38-grain) at about the same muzzle velocity as 40-grain .22 Rimfire Magnum ammo. There was so little difference in field performance that it couldn't be seen.

The present Aguila ammo has lighter 30-grain bullets at higher muzzle velocities (when its available, via the Internet) but none have plastic tips, which increase downrange performance a LOT, even in the .22 Magnum, but especially in the .17 HMR and .17 WSM.

Plus, .17 HMR ammo is available in every convenience store/gas station in the rural part of Montana where he lives, generally at around half the price of 5mm Remington ammo--and even less if you consider the cost of shipping 5mms. Oh, and he'd also have to spend a LOT more for a rifle that would be difficult to resell, due to the ammo problem.

Hahaha!

The 5mm kinda sounds like something I would do........

Jim stop in to Big and Bobs and check out the CZ 455 it stainless with a synthetic stock for $400. I have two of them and they are shooters. If you wanted 22lr or 22 mag barrels are available and reasonably priced. The only knock on the 455 is the safety is backwards from most firearms. The safety has been a non issue for me and the stainless/synthetic is a beautiful thing in a working firearm.

Yes. I have never been bothered by the CZ safety.

Now that they have "fixed" the safety.....I dont like em as much.

I can’t comment on the new safety, no experience with them. I did see a couple of gophers out today. Tomorrow my 17hmr will be in the truck.

Haha!

The wife saw a gopher a couple days ago.

I go to my Prairie dog town a miss one every week.

We have an understanding.

No one's posted the standard Campfire Recommended Strategy yet, so: Get 'em both, switch 'em back and forth for a year to decide which you like better, then keep the other in the safe in case you change your mind.

Dang! Sometimes you guys make such a simple decision so complicated.

This has been available for several months continuously.....maybe over a year now.


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2624230772

Not saying this is a good option.....but I'm not the one looking to make a purchase. One should also look to the .17 WSM....also a high risk of ammo availability as it don't seem to be selling well. It never hurts to look at all the options.

I recently purchased a Browning 1885 in .17 HMR.....it don't shoot for squat. We all take our chances.

I wish I'd bought a CZ as I dearly like my 455 in .22 LR....and Aguila is the best of any ammo I use in it.....by far.

Aguila makes great ammo--not the absolute best in my .22 RF's but certainly worth buying. But as I noted, why bother with the 5mm when it costs at least twice the price as either .17 rimfire--before shipping? Have never seen any in a Montana store.

And as I noted, Aguila does NOT make plastic-tipped 5mm ammo--which is one of the reasons the .17 HMR is so effective at longer ranges. Muzzle velocity is not a good indicator anymore.

Am going to check the local farm'n'ranch store for .17 WSM ammo. That's one of my most reliable indicators of the relative popularity of rifle chamberings. If it's not available in that store, then it's a 50-mile round-trip drive to any other store that MIGHT have it, and around 65 miles to one that definitely will.

They had a couple boxes of WSM in Havre yesterday at the Big R. Some Mach 2 and a metric ton of HMR.

Did you notice the price on the .17 WSM? Have generally found it at least 25% higher than HMR.

I did not commit it to memory but it was quite a bit more.


Seems like it was just under 16.


The cheapest HMR was 10.

I keep my calculator handy to figure out the PPR on the 22 ammo.

Yeah, that's about what I've seen.

Rimfire ammo availability and price has been important to a bunch of shooters since the Obama Shortages. I hadad a wonderfully accurate CZ .17 Mach 2 before the2, which made sense at the time, because .17 Mach 2 ammo coat about half as much as HMR--which was one of the justifications for the M2's introduction. Wonderful gopher round.

Then during the shortages M2 ammo became almost unobtainable, and when it was the price was close to .17 HMR--and even during the shortages HMR ammo sometimes went on sale. So I sold the M2, and bought .17 HMR ammo on sale.

.17 M2 ammo is now available again, but just checked the three websites where I bought most of my rimfire during the shortages. The average lowest price for 50 rounds of M2 was $7.58 and for HMR $9.15. Ain't buying another Mach 2.

Thats too bad.

The Mach 2 might just be the best of all of them.

The 221 aint coming back either....but I still buy them.

The mach2 is great and ammo is now readily available again. For how long who knows. I have a few rifles in mach2 and won’t get rid of them for anything. But saying all that I would take the HMR over the mach2 every day of the week for reasons muledeer states. I like having odd stuff and it appeals to me to keep the mach2. I had enough ammo to get through the last shortage and am stocked up again for the next one. I find it about $2-2.50 less per box wholesale. I was however scared I had an expensive cooper rifle with nothing to feed it during the shortage. Not a good feeling.

The wsm is also a winner in my book cause I like all rifles. But with Ruger 77/17 being the only viable choice it would be a hard sell unless you had a couple HMR’s already. The WSM ammo does cost enough more to not make sense if ammo cost is a consideration. You couldn’t give me a 5mm cause of ammo cost and options

This has been (so far) a great discussion as there's a lot of potential alternatives.....but not among the two choices the OP has asked about. (I plead guilty here).

If it were me, I'd buy a good CZ in .17 HMR as I'm not wanting to spend that much time reloading these days. When one tries to balance the advantages of a centerfire against a rimfire he is often confronted with the question of the value of his time and how much is he actually gaining sitting at the reloading bench.. It might just be prudent to buy one and see how it works rather than to contract analysis paralysis and spend the remaining days of his life wondering. One could starve to death trying to decide if he wants a footlong hotdog or two regular ones six inches each.

I just sold the Whittaker special run RAR Mach 2 I purchased a few months ago. The rifle was fine, but otherwise promising groups were spoiled by fliers, and with the bedding system used, I couldn't see any way that could be the problem. I suspect the ammo just isn't being made with the same care as when it was originally, when Eley was making it and there was some talk of it becoming a match standard. Couldn't see spending $8 a box for ammo that didn't group any better than SV.

The .17 HM2 IMO is a great little cartridge.....but certainly not very popular. I bought one in a Savage bolt rifle with a heavy barrel.....it's a fine shooter. Another one I built from a 1915 Stevens favorite. It's a great little rifle but a bit too much for small game that is headed for the stew pot.

I did have concerns about ammo supplies so I stocked up a lifetime supply. All tolled about 7,000 rounds. I'm having trouble with photo hosting but will post photos when I can.

I never met anyone but you that stewed heads.....

LOL.....

When one likes to hunt with the irons he installed, head shots can become difficult.

Thats cool.


Single shots are great.



My buddies dad had the coolest rifle known to man back in the day.


It was a Mini Martini chambered in .22 SuperJet.