Definition, anyone

varies depending where your at......think the Brits say above 458 cal......for here its a catch all for everything above 358

So size is different depending on where one lives. Wow math will never be the same again

Why is the 50 BMG never brought up here on the big bore.

Good question, but the 9.3 is in the big bore forum

just one of those terms that has no set designation.....think the Brits call a 416 a medium but anyone in the US would call it a big bore.....

i THINK the 50BMG aint talked about much here cause its usually a long range shooting round and not a hunting round though i know its used as such......505 Gibbs and AR-50 are both 50 cal bolt guns but the intended purpose are very different.....

Big Bore, the traditional definition first laid down by the Brits, is 45 cal and above and with the accompanying MV/ME component, ergo neither military rounds the 577/450 Martini Henry nor the 45/70 are condidered Big Bores. jorge

If it were me, I would use the definition of a legal and acceptable dangerous game caliber in most of Africa as being the bottom end so am OK with a 9.3 being talked about here. Never had one, so no dog in that fight but as an example I definately consider MY 416 Rigby a big bore, some might not, this causes me no lost sleep. As with any of the forums here if I don't like a thread or topic, I don't open it or at least don't comment. Been biting my tongue over the latest batch of Remington model 700 plastic stocked 'customs' even. Going with the idea more that if I can't say something nice, to keep my peace more oft these days.

Arbitrary. Just go with "you gotta grab 'em!"

Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Obama, most TV news.................


Jim

What arky said...+++++1!

This forum is mainly visited by sportsmen, and the 50 BMG isn't really a sporting cartridge.

Wolfe Publishings book "Big Bore" is about cartridges over .308 caliber, including if memory serves one of the .311's, and definitely the 8mm's.

It is absolutely an arbitrary concept this Big Bore idea, but when you set off a 416 Rigby, you certainly feel like your in the club.

I assumed (yes I did say assume..lol) it was .400 rifle and above. I bought a .375 H & H and was told its a medium bore.

In light of today's trends this makes a bit of sense, IMHO

I tend to see the 50 BMG as the 22 Hornet of the big stuff.

But it has to be 375. Apart from minimum for African DG, it is where many gun makers seperate the rifles out. M70 for example. With Wby their 378 and up don't come in the cheaper versions of their rifles. With custom guns it is 375 where express sights become a standard. 375 is where lots of shooters start using round noses and don't get into a knot about ballistic coefficients etc.

Guess it depends who you ask.


Winchester made the "Big bore '94"

Marlin calls the 444, 45-70, 450Marlin, "Big Bore".



In the context of this forum, I believe it means African DGR.

375 and up

I also agree with the 375 and up.

As for the BMG, we have had 1 at our bear camp a time or 2 but in reality, who wants to carry it? Last time we had one at camp we were baiting for grizz. we had bait at 600yards (pred control area) and no one wanted to shoot cuz we all wanted to watch the impact.

Thanks for the input about the 50 BMG I did not meen to take the discussion over but I understand about the big bores a little more now.

It would be pretty hard for anyone but a Ben Hur to shoulder the damb things. They are not portable friendly as are all of the big bores that are being talked about. The 50 BMG is a set up and waight gun not a tracking one.

Thanks for the input again

How about any caliber that one man can carry up a mountain with 10 rounds of ammo, shoot off hand, over 35 caliber and can walk down the mountain under his own power.

Jim

I call it anything with a bore from 375 on up. I call my 9.3's (.366's)medium bores.

I am old fashioned I guess, because I call a 375 a medium bore

Me, too!

I like the classification of stopping rifles by "old sarge"

http://ezine.nitroexpress.info/NickuduFiles/Members-PDF/Oldsarge.pdf

Chuck

Is there a practical point to the question or are you conducting an opinion survey?

There is no definable definition of "big bore", its all opinnion. Some have set rules as to what small, medium, and big bores are, but with what authority I have no idea, nor do they. There are calibers by defination and they graduate in size by caliber.

IMO, what difference does it make what you call your caliber?, nothing changes.

the problem with caliber designations is running into rounds like a 50-95 Winchester......its a 50 cal but was designed as an express round for deer sized game, light bullets at "express velocities" the British and Continental made similar chambered rifles......express rifles were for red stag and such nitro express were for dangerous game generally speaking...which is where the energy component mentioned earlier comes in....for the sake of this forum however woudnt bug me if someone started up a discussion on the 50-95 Win anymore than the 9.3 threads bug me.....if i aint interested in teh subject i dont click, have run across many interesting threads on this site that werent under the "right" subforum.....

Well Ray, I was told years ago, when you were a much younger hunter, that a "BIG BORE" was anything .40 caliber and larger in a rifle. Some people in the states call a .375H&H a Big Bore! Those in Europe say this is not correct, I personally don't care one way or another. I have several ant they all have a purpose in my hunting agenda.

That's my take on it, also.

I consider the 375 H&H up a big bore as it is the legal minimum on dangerous game in Africa and it's usually what the rifle manufacturers define as a big bore. Made for one heck of a reality shock when I read John Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartidges" and learned my 375 was a medium bore, not even a medium-big bore, just medium.

The legal minimum doesn't mean "big bore" a 375 is still just a medium bore and it is legal. The bore diameter must be big and a 375 bore ain't big

JWP-475......You are correct! I do like the .40 caliber and above for the discription of a "BIG BORE RIFLE" and the .375H&H falls into the soup with the .338, .358 calibers, as you stated prior, a medium bore caliber period.

The .45 Colt is a big bore and available in rifles, but not many people would refer to it as a big bore and it certainly doesn't come to mind when we think about big bore rifles. When we think big bore, we think power. I feel the definition of big bore is .375 magnum and up.

Just out of curiosity, what's the point of the "bore" designation - i.e. "small bore", "medium bore", and "big bore"? If there is no generally accepted world standard, then the name means nothing ... much like "magnum", which has effectively lost all meaning as far as I'm concerned.

The cartridge is the cartridge, and no amount of nomenclature is going to change that.

In Africa, for instance, they don't say "only big bores allowed" ... they tell you exactly what cartridges are acceptable. That alone tells me that the "bore designation" has lost all practical meaning.

but that's just my conjecture on the topic ... not meant to stir up a hornet's nest.

The nomenclature likely dates to the days of the gauge designations 4 bore, 6 bore, etc. A big bore was probably anything above the size normally used for shooting birds.

No doubt that the nomenclature used to mean something, and was relevant at the time ... However it seems rather ambiguous these days making it a practically useless designation in these modern times ... That's all I was getting at ...

I agree with you. If there was a clear definition, someone would be able to reference it in some recognized document.

Since rifles are referenced in caliber, and shotguns in bore (old english) that's kinda where I drew my conclusion.

Shane ... your thoughts on the matter make the most sense to me ... always good to have you chime in.

Several years ago I purchased a copy of "Big Bores", a Wolfe publication. In it, Al Miller, then the chief editor of it's magazines, wrote that he acknowledged that the term meant different things to different people, but you have to start somewhere, so he started with .350-caliber.

In starting my blogs called "BIG BORES", I started where he did, at .350-caliber but added this caveat: 4000 ft-lbs of K.E.at the muzzle as a minimum.

From there it looks like this:

Light Big Bores: .358" to .366"

Medium Big Bores: .375"

Medium-Heavy Big Bores: .410 to .423"

Heavy Big Bores: .458" to .485"

Extra-Heavy Big Bores: .505" on up!


That was completely arbitrary, but it gave me a framework with which I could work. YMMV.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

And the definition gets weirder when spoken of by people who don't shoot. We frequently hear on the news of someone being shot with a large caliber handgun and then we find out it was a 9mm or a .38 Special.

Is John "Podoro: Taylor's tome "African Rifles and Cartridges" enough of a valid reference sourse. How about the definitions from the various British Proof Houses and gunmakers who developed and tested all these cartridges back at the dawn of the 20th Century? works for me. jorge

Let someone shoot either a German or Jap 378 Wby (super light barrel and no brake) and then try and convince them that 375 is not a big bore

Agree with jorg and tonk. I'll leave it to the Brits and African standards to determine what a big bore or medium is.When it comes to big bore rifles and truly large game,Americans are rookies at both.

As unequivocally valid and meaningless as every other reference to 'big'. Define a big deer, a big truck, et al.

I thought traditionaly it was .40 and larger. But in the US my impression is that it starts with the .375. And I'm ok with that too.

Probably the same people that see this:


And say "nice Water Buffalo." or depending of what the meaning of "is" is.

jorge you must be kidding it doesn't have big enough horns to be a water buffalo. HeHeHe. Cheers NC

Jorge, yeah, mine gets called a water buffalo by the non hunter types all of the time, sometimes by a deer hunter as well. I gently explain the difference.....

IIRC this is correct, the original term "Big Bore" was used to describe the large caliber "bore" rifles used on early African game. These rifles were so terribly painful to shoot that calibers like the .458 and other modern day "big bore" rifles were developed as a suitable replacement.

Who says it doesn't pay to read all the brochures at the SCI conference. Personally I like the designation of .40 and higher for modern rifles. Not handgun rounds that are used in rifles.

isn't it just easier to talk about the cartridge you're shooting, rather than worrying about what classification of bore size it's in?

again, "big bore" is an outdated, useless designation that is utterly meaningless unless it's clearly defined - which it's not ... at least not these days.

I find it amusing that less than 1/100th inch of difference in bullet diameter separates the medium-bore 9.3's from the big-bore .375s.

Less than 1/32nd of an inch separates .375 from .40. That's a little thicker than the average finger-nail.

Some people I know define big-bore as any cartridge that will knock the shooting glasses off your nose. Others say it's any round that results in a headache after three rounds. One smart-ass even suggested that anybody who thinks he can define "big bore" with a number is one.

40 or above in my opinion

Agreed 100% it made sense when talking about 4 bore and 6 bore not so much anymore.

this post.

safariman

I picked up one of those plastic Rem 700 in .375H&H NIB online for about $520. I feel that I can be critical about them. I've not shot it yet, but the first thing that I noticed is that I can not get down on the open sights with that stock. Duh!

Maybe I'll sell it to someone due too it being NIB and get a CZ or the old Whitworth that I have always wanted.

Despite the nitpicking, we have to start somewhere...

This thread is located in the Forum list under: "Big Bores Only" Think I'll go get some sleep now, and go hunting tomorrow... much more profitable!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

If it makes no sense then why do we have a big bore forum? Seems that there should be a definition don't you think

Sorry but that was Al Millers very own classification and it just does not hold water, not one drop. The Big Bores start at the .40 classification and go upward from their.

The beloved .375H&H caliber is a "medium bore" and always well be regardless if somebody else trys to publish their material can call it something different.

Yawwwwnnnnnnnn......this is worse than an Energizer Bunny commercial......

I'm good with 40 caliber and above