In your opinion what caliber is best suited for hunting deer at 400-600 yards?

I thought we just went through that, and decided it was a 7 Wby Mag with 160 AB`s!

I like the 264wm. Flat shooting, good bullet choices for reloading, 85gr to 160gr, recoil is not bad, use at least 26" barrel with 1 in 8" twist or 1 in 8.5", I like the lighter bullets (100gr for deer around 3700fps.

I've always figured a .270 Win is about as good as it gets for a dedicated deer rifle.

400-600 shouldn't be any problem.

My picks as ranges lengthen is the 7mm mags.. or the .300's...

Actually surprised CH didn't say 7mm rem mag in his post, but opted for the 270 instead....?????

Good picks +1

Lots of cals will do you fine to those ranges, build a rifle you'll like, shoot it a ton and rock on. Cal within reason here isn't no bigga casa grande.

Short action or long, magnum or not lots of good ones to with.

Dober

So many choices I doubt you could go wrong. More important imo is a rifle that fits you well and that you can shoot comfortably. A good stock design and scope are key.

25-06 or 25-06 AI! Would be sweeeet.

264 Win with a 130 gr TSX or 140 Partition = game over !!

300 WM, 270 win, 7WSM,7mm Mag, 7mm-08...all good choices!

Pick the rifle/caliber you like, check the foot pounds of energy with your load at 600 yards (per any ballistic table), and if it's enough to kill a deer, practice a TON in field conditions.

Most any deer rifle will kill a deer at 400-600 if the shooter can do his part.

As others have stated, there is no magic, or cartridge that will make you competent to shoot at 400-600 yds. It would follow, that if you have to ask, you're not there.
Practice with what you like, and then shoot some more.
Having said that, my favorite is the .264 WM.

I've killed deer at 400-500 yards with the 270,7 Rem Mag, 300H&H,and 300 Win Mag.....they all worked.

Yep. A 260/308 with proper bullets is solid out to 600yd. A 7mm Mag is a 1000yd rifle with proper bullets, IF the rifle is accurate enough, and an even bigger IF the shooter is accurate enough. I don't get to practice enough to be deadly at 1000 myself.

since nobody else seems to be smart enough to say it....

30-06.... nuff said!

We all knew that was the answer. Just looking for some other options....

I have killed 10 deer between 400 and 500 yards.

That is easy.

I am still trying to get good enough on paper targets at 600 yards. In 2011 I switched from 270 to 7mmRemMag.

That little 12" kill zone is not easy at 600 yards. The best I can do it hit it half the time, with the first shot of the day.

The target looks big, even in a 2X scope, but there is a lot of wind and trajectory error possible.

I build new rifles every year, but I think the problem is me, and to the rifle.

It's that last part that's the rub, isn't it? Lots of calibers will do the job...assuming you have ballistic or adjustable reticles and don't have to hold off the body. And assuming your scope has enough vertical adjustment to accomodate (or you have canted base). And assuming you can make a hit at that range. Lots of "ifs."

If you could get a bit more consistent brass for it, I would say 7WSM. But a lot of others will work just dandy.

I'd have to agree with most of what you are saying except for the target looking big "even in a 2x scope". Were you still talking about 600 yards? I know even with my 4.5-14x40 set on 14x this year my buck at 600 yards didn't look "big". It was deffinately a doable shot but still didn't look big (maybe because it was a dink ). Good points about the wind too. Trajectory error is pretty much a thing of the past with the cool ballistics programs, rangefinders with angle compensation (my 1000 yd rangefinder has it) and good scopes with excellent tracking abilities.

300 ultramag makes those shots pretty easy.

7 mag

162g Hornady SST, BC .625

71.0g of Retumbo, Rem brass, Fed 215 primer
Kiss the lands

3100 fps out of 26" barrel

I will plus-one to the notion that 600 is a whole other beast than 400-500. Kicks my butt too- in terms of "first shot of the day" hits. Which is an astute observation on your part- I see guys talking about donging a target "all day long" at extended range, and I've certainly been guilty of that, but it's that first shot that tells the tale!

A high-BC bullet at "good" velocity is your best friend when it comes to 600 and further. The 6.5's, 7's and 30's can do that at reasonable recoil levels... for deer only, edge to the 6.5's and 7's IMHO.

wow where did you come up with that b.c. of .625, that would be awesome if it were true,hornadys website says .550

Maybe he means the Amax. The 162 is .625...

A-max's true G1 BC is .599 according to Bryan Litz. I have had the opportunity to try many of his suggested BCs. While his numbers deflate the advertized BCs of many manufacturers, I have found them to work correctly downrange.

Back to the question. I have been searching for decades that perfect deer rifle out to 600 yds. High BC bullets. rangefinders, turrets, and ballistic programs totally changed the approach. Used to try for the fastest flattest chambering available. Originally tried 7 STW, 7 RUM and 300 RUM with lightweight bullets. Have gotten closer in recent years but still searching which is part of the fun.... Most recent favorites: 257 Roy with 115 VLDs, 7 rem mag with 180 Berger VLD, 168 VLD or 162 A-max depends on what the rifle will shoot.

Have begun experimenting with Berger's .338 300 gr hybrid that has BC of .818. While many are using the 338 Lapua I chose the 338 RCM. It only uses 57 gr of powder, recoil is reasonable and barrel should last a long time. Retains 3000 ft/lb at 600 yds, vel 2125 fps. Before anyone says this is crazy, read this link and note the impact velocities and wounding abilities this bullet.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...ts-using-338-300-gr-berger-hybrid-80968/

i shoot competitively at 500-1000 yards. i have never shot against a .270 . i would like to. grin.

DOBER has it right . there are a lot of good calibers. the important thing is having a RIFLE that will shoot half minute consistently as far as you are planning on shooting.ALL of my remington with krieger barrels fill the bill. along with that you need good ammo and scope. roninflag.

Let me un-qualify my question. The longest ranges that I have killed deer is in the 300-325 range and that was with a .300 Win, cause I thought I needed it. Nowadays, I prefer to shoot lighter recoiling rigs. Several have stated how much of difference there is between 600 and the 4-500 range. Real world killing power, for 100# to 200# deer, what are you giving up by shooting 260/708 vs 270/280 and bigger at less than 500 yards? I know the bigger shoot a little flatter, but with either, you would need to know your dope and range. How about the terminal kiiling performance?

243 win will work and has for many at the ranges that you suggest

My longest kill was at 400 yds, used a 105 amax thru both lungs via a 6mmBR at 2850 mv.

Optimum ballistics are w/larger rounds, but MY shooting is best w/270 recoil vs. a larger 7mag or similar.

No doubt, as above, LR killing requires lots of practice if one wants to 'get r done' on the first squeeze and not botch the job, IMHO.

If I had a 243 fast twist w Amax's on board, I'd lung shoot at those distances.

It's more about HITTING VITALS than 'foot lbs' but once that happens you want the bullet to expand well. Some use 'Target/Competition' bullets - and of those, some do better than others. Amax, Berger Hunting, and even simple ballistic tips can do very well at longer ranges.

400 to 600 yards is out of my comfort range and ability for anything other then targets. I just don't get to practice at those ranges. I'd hate to wound a deer and not be able to recover it. 300 to 350 yards is my limit and my Remington 700 Classic 280 Rem. works just fine for that.

If I could and was going to shoot deer regularly out to 400 to 600 yards I'd probably look long and hard at a 270 WSM, 270 Weatherby Mag., 7mm Rem. Mag., 7mm WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm STW, 7mm Weatherby Mag. or a 7mm RUM. Maybe a 300 Win. Mag., 300 WSM or a 300 SAUM if there might be a chance of some bigger game. I've seen some really long shots on hunting TV shows and have read some really good things about the 6.5mm-284 and 6.5mm Creedmoor.

Good luck, NYH1!

I went thru the same process as you last year and went with the 6.5-.284.
No regrets.
Agree with the 2nd paragraph above by NYH1.

I think there are way more 400-600 yard deer cartridges than there are 400-600 yard deer hunters,based on what I've seen in the field,which ain't all that impressive......

I love those offering an opinion who have never done it...guessing is free, I suppose.

Any one who excludes the 270 for the purpose has marbles running around in their noggins....any of you guys ever sat in the butts and listened to a 270 Win fired from 600 yards crack over your head,or watch the impact up close?Or for that matter seen the 270 kill at 500 yards?

I can guarantee you,you ain't gonna survive a hit and neither is a little deer, or an elk for that matter.Funny stuff....really.

A couple years ago and elderly gentleman that was going on his first elk hunt asked me what caliber rifle should he buy for the hunt. I asked him if he had a rifle now and if so what was it chambered in. He told me that he owned a 270 win. I then asked if he shot it well and he said that he did. I told him that he already had a suitable rifle and to simply use the 270. He did.

Long story short is he got a shot at a bull and made a clean 1 shot kill

Great post, as always, Bob
First of all, OP, if you have to ask what caliber rifle you need to shoot deer at 600 yards, YOU AIN'T READY TO SHOOT DEER AT 600 YARDS!
Take the best rifle you have, put up a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 600 yards with a target plastered in the middle- Shoot two rounds from a field position, get up walk around and shoot 2 more from another field position- do that until you have ten shots on the target and then go look at your group. You see, when you shoot at 600 yards, every time you change your hand position on the rifle. it shifts your group. I don't know this from reading, I know this from shooting rifle matches at 600 yards.
Then, consider what just a 3 mile an hour change in wind does to your bullet at 600 yards. When you shoot 600 yard matches,you get to shoot a sighter shot or two, and then try to shoot your target run with the flags as close to where they were when you fired your sighter. Thats because wind doping at six hundred yards isn't as simple as holding your wind gauge up and dialing in a correction. Over 600 yards the wind will change direction and velocity many times, and to predict drift at 600 yards in any significant wind is damned near impossible for most of us, at least any one I ever saw shoot.
And these are just two of the messy little problems that arise when trying to shoot 600 yards. Parallax, bullet concentricity, mirage, shot to shot deviation in velocity, all these things and more take on much more significance past 3 and 400 yards. Then there is the time of flight of the bullet. At 600 yards you are talking bullet flight times of 1/2 second and up, which means if you had done everything perfectly when the trigger tripped and that bullet was aimed exactly for that animals heart. that animal has enough time to take a step and the bullet ends up in his paunch.
Next, what bullet are you going to use that will expand reliably at 600 yards? Here's another thing I know from seeing it- No matter what headstamp you have on your cartridge, a bullet that hits in the chest cavity and doesn't expand is not going to give decisive kills.
Now to clarify what I mean a little more- Some people can kill at 600 yards as easily as I can at 200- It's analogous to a 600 pound bench press- just because most people can't do it, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people that can- BUT, those people that can shoot 600 yards ( or bench press 600 pounds) have invested a lot of time and money in honing their skills- I dam sure wouldn't want Scenarshooter or Big Stick (AKA Boxer) or BobinNH shooting at my pet dog at 600 yards.
Secondly, I don't claim to be a match shooter of any significance- I shot the four position matches years ago while in the guards, but the learning curve on learning what you need to learn isn't that dam steep.
Boxer harps on the fact (perhaps a tad excessively?) that you need to think bullets and BC instead of headstamps- The reason for that is BC mitigates two problems of long range shooting-wind drift and bullet expansion. So, if you want to shoot stuff way out there, that's the place to start looking-

Fred

Any 6.5 capable of starting a 140 at around 2800 or more I think is ideal.

7mm Rem Mag, 160 accubond, H-4831 or H-1000, trajectorie's are easy, shooting the wind is the key to getting dull knife blade's

Practice, practice, and practice some more.

Gunner

6.5X47L with a 129 SST did the deed at 675 yards for me this year. As said above, you need to shoot a lot. I shoot about 300 days a year, Several thousand rounds of center fire ammo every year.
On this shot, I watched the deer for about 40 minutes or so and watched the conditions the entire time. I needed 1/2 mil of wind and I knew this from hours and hours of shooting in all conditions and know what this bullet does in like conditions.
It was a one shot high shoulder kill.

Well said..

I have done the deed with a 243, 243AI, 284 win, 6.5x47 lapua, 30-06, 300 Win and 25-06. Cant say I have a favorite, but they will all get the job done as long as you do your part.

There are too many to list I've use a bunch from 6br through 338 Norma. Some days I still use the Br other days I wouldn't give you 2 cents for it. Under ideal conditions it works fine. Under crappy conditions (wind etc.) I go right to the 338 Norma, there is no such thing as over kill at long range dead is dead and you cant make a deer more dead but you can make one not dead enough, wounded. You dont need high BC bullets to shoot 500-600 yards. For one gun pick one that has enough ass to get the job done under field conditions. On dead calm days I use the Br for most other I use a 300WSM when conditions suck the 338 Norma comes out.

Be careful!

A sane post like that will elicit the pea shooter advocates to tell you that you are afflicted with "magnumitis"!

LOL!

270wby very good

If ya have to ask.......

I use a 25-05 with 100g Sierra Game Kings or 115 Bergers if ranges is out to 600 yards. It has enough energy to deck a deer flat at that range and is really fast and flat for normal deer shots. A .270 will do it too but I prefer the very light recoil of the 25-06 so I can shoot hundreds of shots in practice without developing a flinch. I start flinching with about 10 rounds using a 140g .270 bullet. For example, this year I shot a few hundred rounds at prairie dogs out to 1000 yards a day before hunting season. As a result, I felt real confident in my shooting. On opening day, I shot a 500 yard antelope (DOA with 3 feet of penetration) with complete confidence.

+1

Royce

That's about the most 'sane' posting I've ever read on this forum!!

I normally hunt deer with a 25-06 and it will take them out to 600 yards using 115 Bergers. It excels inside of 500 and I prefer it over a .270 for speed. If they are likely to be between 600 and 1000 I use a .300 Dakota. It shoots 2" groups at 600 yards and gets out there quick.

About any of them that are legal in your state
Need to make sure it has the accuracy capability, and the impact velocity at your MAX (600 yards in this case) is enough for the bullet being used to perform well.
Personally, my two fav's are the .264 and the .284 (6.5 & 7mm).

257 wby shooting the 100 grain barnes ttsx at near 3800 fps. Makes easy hits to 600 yards trivial bacause it shoots so flat.

260AI sporting 140 Amaxs or Berger VLDs. 243AI will do nice with the same in 105s.

I'd go straight to a big 30 and the 208 A-Max...for a rifle.

Great post Royce!!

I agree! What he says is true.....

But I think his pet dog would be safe from me....lots of times anyway!

280AI running 160 class bullets. No I am not talking about some super premium bullet....Just a plain old spire point that has worked for years and years....

+1

My longest kill was using a 6BR/105 Amax/2850 mv at LRF 400 yds.

That said, for 400-600 yds - I'd run a 260 or similar....ALOT of rifles will get it done to 600...think:

1) Accuracy - shot placement THRU vitals
2) Bullets - choose good BC and made for hunting, and expansion at lower speeds.

3) Most important, shoot ALOT on the range to learn YOUR rifle/scope/load - and practice practice practice.

KNOW your 1st shot cold bore POI everytime, use an LRF and know wind and how to cope n dope

Funny but typical to see the magnumitis guys out thinking 600 yards ya need a rimmed case or more.

600 isn't that long of a poke if you know your rifle. On deer sized game you don't need the tons of energy or impact velocity that many here think you do.

The question is what caliber do you prefer to shoot enough to get to know it well enough to make the 600 yard shot?

Your second biggest concern will be the wind. You don't need speed to beat the wind necessarily. Slippery bullets and knowing your rifle trump the typical mindset.

338-378 shooting 300 gr bullets, just right.

338-416 runs em better... jus sayin'

Not bad, but the 7mmWSM will push the 162Amax to 3200. You'll have push the 208Amax to the same speed to beat it, and that takes a big case.

As stated before I like it a little smaller. 260AI will take it to 1000yds.

The way I look at it is most of the people I know, and have been around that got into long range shooting and hunting started on a 308 Win. Kind of the standard for tactical rifles, quality box match grade ammo, long barrel life and thousands of rouds down range. Most hunt with it out to 600 and even more, but most often to 600 before they want more. So it's hard to ask about 400-600 yard deer cartridge without listing the 308.

The easier question would be to ask what rifle would not be suitable for 400-600 yards. Other than my 14T 223 and my .300 whisper I do not think I own a gun that is not more than adequate for 600 yards.

Not argiung its' effectivness but what load and barrel are you running to get a 162 from a WSM at 3200 fps?

Just curious as the case has no more capacity than a 7RM,and that is a lot of velocity for that bullet in that case...

I have seen it done with 160's and factory fodder in the 7mmWSM, but there were ejctor marks,and fired cases were stretched so badly they wouldn't go back in the rifle(?)

Superb, well thought post that should be stuck permanently at the top of this forum.

Bravo.

Accuracy trumps all..but there's much to that.

True, true.

Yea, the answer IMO is different than several decades ago when we didn't have range finders, turrets and ranging reticles; at least they were not commonly used. Then you went with a screamer to flatten trajectory and so minimize mid-trajectory height and hold over.

Now, with the LRF you know the distance to the target and the drop at that range ( you must shoot at the various ranges to know this precisely). You then pick the correct horizontal cross-hair or turn the turret the correct number of clicks. It doesn't take a lot of power to kill a deer--I.e., the 308 will kill a deer at 800 yds. This then means there are a pick-up load of cartridges from the fast 6mms with a fast twist to you name how big you want to go.

More importantly, a deers vitals are not that big--think a 8" dinner plate to be conservative, so a better question may be can your cartridge- rifle combination shoot into less than MOA at that range or into a MOA at 600 yds?

My farthest shot was with a Remington 760 chambered in 308. The shot was 517 yards. The little 80 pound coues deer didn't know what hit him.
I also own a 7 Rem Mag and I am sure it will out shoot what I am capable of. I was shooting my buddies 7RM and was busting rocks with it to 550 with ease. The round can do a ton.
I am currently building a 25-06 one piece at a time and am planning on having it set up to be a 600 yard max deer rifle.

A ton of choices for sure, but with todays bullets and todays scopes, just about any rifle caliber can be set up to be a 600 yard deer rifle. Get one you can shoot comfortably and accurately and it will perform well.

Kique

There are more 600 yd rifles than 600 yd riflemen. Get good optics and have a trigger job done on any number of rifles, and you have the rifle. In my gunsafe, I have at least 4, probably 5, 600 yd deer rifles, and 3 of them are unmodified, with one that has a glass stock as the only improvement.

Spend the rest of your money on practice.

I really like my 7mm mag with a 162 A-max

Muzzleloader or 45-70x400 gr bullet

Again, if you want the easiest way to kill deer with a rifle to 600 yards the best I have found is the 257 wby or 257 STW using 100 grain ttsx bullets around 3800 fps. My 257 wby with a mil dot scope is trivial to 600 yards. Zero the first mil dot above the crosshair dead on at 100 yards. The crosshair is now about 460 yards. The first mil dot below the crosshair is 600 yards. The second mil dot is 700 yards. Limited recoil with the 100 grainer and so flat it just makes it easy if you have the shooting skills. Because of the low bc there are better choices to go half mile and beyond.

For shooting at game past 400 yards, your primary objectives should be to
(A) minimize wind drift, since that is, by a considerable margin, the most unpredictable element and most difficult obstacle to conquer when shooting that far and
(B) keep recoil at a tolerable/manageable level so you enjoy practicing because you are going to be practicing a lot, and you'll want to enjoy it (and there's no reason not to enjoy practicing since there are some great long-range cartridges with moderate recoil).

In my opinion, based on the research that I've done, the best long-range deer cartridges would be a 6.5mm along the lines of .260 Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5x284, or 6.5-06 with a high BC bullet (choose the velocity and recoil you want). Those 6.5mm cartridges provide the best combination of high BC bullets, good muzzle velocity, and modest recoil. Just be sure to pick a bullet/cartridge combination that has sufficient velocity for bullet expansion at 600 yards in the conditions you are going to be hunting in (e.g., elevation, temperature, etc.).

Anytime you are picking a cartridge to serve a purpose you must look at what is more important to you. When you are looking at close range such as 600 yards and in super high speed flat shooting cartridges can trump slow moving high bc bullets. From 600-800, 800-1000, 1000-1200 yards and further all get exponentially harder to make shots for each step requiring a different thought process and different cartridges depending on what you are trying to accomplish. But for close range shooting 600 yards and in can be done with about any over the counter rifle and centerfire cartridge capable of killing a deer. Just some are better than others.

A hunter must decide what is more important. Shooting a point and shoot laser making hits very easy at 600 yards and in or a slow moving bullet that makes hits difficult with trajectory holdover. Inside of 600 yards windage is going to be a trivial difference however when you must get off a quick shot at a deer the lazer can have you on it and a dead deer quickly. Instead of fooling with trying to figure out clicks or holdover while the deer gets away. Shooting at targets you use one set of rules when you have plenty of time but shooting at wild game animals requires far more variables to enter your decision.

We often use a 257 wby shooting 100 grain barnes ttsx bullets at 3860 fps here in windy Wyoming for deer and antelope to 600 yards. I own over 150 rifles of all kinds and for this purpose this is about the best thing we have found for getting on animals quickly and killing them. If you are shooting deer back east where you have much less wind to deal with than us it may even be a better choice. I have been modifying my hunting skills for about fifty years all over north america and building long range rifles for about 40 years. I have rifles for many uses in all calibers and wildcats to kill stuff from point blank to a mile and test them all at those ranges regularly.

Just curious - What's the barrel length on your .257 Wby that gets 3860 fps with the Barnes 100 gr TTSX? Sounds like that's some gun.

I agree.


ddj

You should get a photobucket account.

John, I do have one by the same name however have very few pictures in it. I live south of you about 60 miles. I get on here rarely and just try to show a different point of view from the standard so a guy knows he has choices.

Razorback the rifle is a standard mk 5 wby with the 26" barrel. It will hold under .5 moa to 600 yards and is a pleasure to shoot. I think the load is 75.5 grains of magpro with a cci 250 primer but load for so many don't try it until I verify it.