I just bought a used savage model 11 .308 as a donor for my first target gun. The only problem is I can't really decide which caliber I want to build it as.

What I'll be doing
-targets out to 800 yards
-shooting in local groundhog shoots/matches
-possibly hunting groundhogs or deer but pretty unlikely

So I want something that isn't going to be really expensive to shoot but I'm not sure if I just want a plane old .243. I'll probably shoot the 115gr dtacs or the 105 a-max or something similar.

I've been looking at the 6xc and I like it but I'm not sure if the little extra expense is really getting me much over a 243.

So what do you guys think? Any other rounds I should look at?


(p.s. I know this is the long range hunting page but I figured this was the best place to post this but feel free to move if needed.)

243 Winchester.

+1 If I was really feeling froggy I might AI it, but a .243 is fine as is.

You can get a finished LW-50 in 243, 8-twist. I bought one several years ago and put it on a Savage.

Lothar Walther barrels

Plenty of other cartridges that do very good things but for your described uses as stated above by prairie goat & Huntingnut the plain old 243 Win. would be a good place to start.
You'll spend alot less time screwing around with brass issues compared to other good cartridges and be able to spend more time shooting, which will help you more than any gain by more powder capacity will get you with other cartridges, etc.
Hornady 105 A-Max or Berger VLDs will get you way out there easily.
Good luck,
-Ted

PS = If you think you will really be shooting those 115gr dtacs make sure you get a barrel with a fast enough twist rate to stabilize them.

6mm Creedmoor

6mm BR 1-8" Twist. Call Northland Shooter Supply for a Criterion barrel. Berger 105 Hybrid. Varget. And enjoy.

Mark

buy my custom 243win

600 remington action
24in 1in dia. stainless douglas barrel 1-12twist
canjar trigger
heavy laminated bench stock
gun likes 70gn bullets,shoots 2 1/4in at 500yds

750.00plus shipping to your ffl.

Cheapest route you'll find is to rebarrel to 243 with a 1/8 twist. Invest in a good stock, trigger, optics, and bullets/brass. Then practice.

Kaiser Norton

My vote

243 AI

+1

.243AI 1-8"twist

+1 especially if you are going to shoot it in comps and G-Hog matches, I shoot one now for everything you mentioned.

+1

Hard to beat with the 105gr VLD.

6-6.5X47 Lapua.
The end.

243 win 8 twist

8 twist 6mm Remington

For what your going to be doing there is only one choice.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3833562.0
Heres a guy running a Savage....
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3833797.0
The 243 cant hang with the BR in the accuracy department.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3833415.0
Woman shoots a record.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/09/sally-bauer-sets-pending-ibs-1000-yard-hg-score-record/
6mmBR vs Dasher.
Notice.. no one is even talking about a 243....
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3830042.0


dave

I had one built for exactly what you are asking for. With match shooting included there is only one answer in my opinion and that is a BR or BR variant (Dasher, BRX etc.) All of the cartridges mentioned are great, BUT when you bench it at a GH shoot things change.

Being that the OP wants to shoot targets, which generally leads to quite a rounds down the barrel wouldn't a 6MM BR be a better choice than a 243 due to the overbore.
I've read where barrel life on a 243 can be as little as 1500 rounds

No way to beat the BR

This^^

Throw in some Forster dies. 107 matchkings aren't shabby either

Well I think that pretty much settles it. I'll probably go with the 6br.

Thanks for the help everyone.

I'd greedily take the extra ass and minimal bullschit of a 243Win repeater twisted 8"...if only to eek a little more drift advantage downrange. Logistics supports it easily/well and it's far and away the most,for the least.

Very easy to arrange a kiss ala Salvage mag confines.

Dead on assessment.

Nothing says easy like the 243.

Good advice here. Try to score a Brux barrel if you can.

I am with JWP.

The 6mm Remington is a stellar performer. In fact I rebarreled a .243 Tikka T3 with a lilja tube in 6mm Remington. It averages in the .3s with 85 grain Sierra hollow point Game Kings.

It is an easy gun to shoot well.

I have researched this a lot lately, and the consensus is the 6BR can be a pain in the ass with regards to feeding in a repeater. Fact or myth, only one way to find out. I read enough negative to decide against it though.

Like Sagebrush, I am a 6mm Rem Fan, especially fast twist on a Long Action....

but when it comes to accuracy, there was a shop teacher from a local high school, that use to show up at a monthly 1000 yd shoot, every once in a while...

while there was an incrowd who usually rotated the monthly winner, they use to curse this shop teachers existance...

he was a fairly young guy, but brought a 6BR that he build himself at the local high school using their equipment...fast twist and was shooting Sierra 107 match kings....

every time he showed up he went home with the grand prize...

the other guys were shooting 300 Magnums with 45 power Leupold target scopes...

This guy has a 6.5 x 20 Leupold.. off the shelf, nothing special...but he darn sure could apply it all...

I certainly was impressed.. it would be my first choice for a custom varmint rig...in 6mm...and I single shoot those type of rifles... so a repeating capability isn't an issue for me...

Though I have a real soft spot for the 6mm Remington and have a super accurate 6BR repeater, I would opt for the plain old .243 for this application.

Its more than plenty accurate and the logistical support is just so much better.

No iffy brass issues that can crop up with the 6MM and no feeding concerns in a repeater that can show up with the 6BR

The 6mm Rem is a workhorse, but problem is it is pretty long for a short action.

For a first Target gun and targets to 800 yds, 6mmBR with 1-8 twist.
link here Northland Shooter Supply has a barrel for you. Midway usually has Shilen for Savage rifles in 6mmBr too.
6mmBR link 6mmBr.com link for you too.
Check the 6mmBR page on the .243 also.

6 Dasher over the BR to 800.

Absolutely nobody shoots a 243 in BR, as it can't hang with a Dasher in the balls out accuracy dept to 1K.

aalf, you seeing any 6 Creedmoors yet?

Thanks.

I haven't, and doubt you will...

Not sure about last year, but the year before, ten of the top ten shooters at the 600 Nationals shot Dashers....

I've looked at Savage rifles in 6BR and look most inviting for the price. I'm curious if the cases need to be turned as they are for custom rifles or just load and shoot like you would a .222?

Load and shoot...

Yup.

Nothing's easier to make shoot than a 6BR. I can even do it.

My question is, "how does it shoot as a .308?"

If you're set on a 6mm, lots of good suggestions above.

6XC...tons of load data, easy to load for, and just because I like being different.

Pfft. 243 every time!

Concur...but no flys upon the 243 Win.

What kind of Salvage you got and you want to trade? I could set you up real quick, if interested in the .243 Win.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...inking_of_saying_bye_bye_to_#Post8604339

It's a heavy bastard. right at 12lbs with the Vortex scope (not included). I have around 470 BN coated 115 grain DTAC's, 100+ Berger 115 grain Hunting VLD's, and 500 Nosler Custom Competition 107 grain, and a few Sierra 107 grain MK's I'd throw in for $1200 cash price.

Both the 115 VLD and DTAC bullets like to be seated .130 off the lands. They also feed from the magazine at 2.8 COAL which was set up to be about .010 off the lands for the VLD when I had the barrel throated. All in all a great shooting rig, just not what I want in the end.

DTAC seating depth test.


Berger seating depth test.

Here is a target shot at 2 hundred yards by my self built Savage model 10 in 243 Win with a McGowan 1 in 8 twist shooting Nosler 105 custom competition bullets. It shoots the Berger 105 vld hunting bullets just as well. Its in a HS precision tactical stock with AI bottom metal and detachable mags.

I went through this exact debate a few years back. I decided that I wanted to shoot more, not spend more, so I went with the 243 over the 6br. Brass is pretty well available and cheap, the dies are cheap, and no feeding problems. I ordered a 1 in 8 Shilen prefit and it shoots very well. I doubt I would be happier with the br.

I have the exact same rifle built on the 6mm br Norma but it cannot be relied on to feed from the mag. It is pleasant to shoot and is a one holer at 200 on a calm day but I hunt and rely on the 243.
I will post a pic of some of the BR groups later.

I have built 3 rifles on the Savage model 10. I am attaching 2 3shot groups fired at 200 with my 6mm br Norma with a McGowan prefit barrel. The other group is from my 308 Win with an EABCO prefit barrell which is a 5 shot group from 100 yards. I have been realy lucky, as all my home built Savage rifles have been tack drivers. I call them GAS rifles (Gnats Ass Savages);)

243 AI 8 Twist

105 A Max

Best results for least effort.

I don't know that there is a bad choice, but there is a easy choice. 243 Winchester

I have a 243 AI 8 twist that I love but the 243 Win easy the easy choice.

6mm-250. Brass is everywhere. An easy cat caliber.

I've owned a bunch of 6mm rifles in my time and now only have two and they're both 243 Winchester chambered Remington rifles and that's because I could never see any advantage to the 6mmBR, 6mm Remington, etc. cartridges except all that extra time and expense fiddling with them not to mention finding or fireforming brass for some of the crazy "imitations" of the 243.

Make mine a 243 and my next barrel for both if I ever cook the throats of these barrels will be an 8 twist. They're both 9 1/8" now which is Remington's standard twist for 243's.

Nobody can tell you what will be best for you. The 6mmBR is probably the only one I'd consider if I had an an unlimited budget and time but the advantage is so slight it STILL might not be worth it.

1. 6br 2. 243ai 3. 243

Or, if there's not much wind in your area, a 6ppc with a no turn neck should be pretty accurate. I won a 600 yard benchrest match with mine on a calm morning with 68gr Bart's Ultras.

I have 243win for hunting and am building another for fun.
But for super high volume sage rat hunting I prefer the much better gas mileage of the 6XC.

I think this chart shows a lot:

I've used a plain 243 for years for exactly what you are suggesting. Hands down, over the counter ammo, brass all over the place, bullets are available from 55 to 105, high BC, decent SD, good for a lot of critters bigger than it should, no doubt, 243 is the best and easiest way to go and will do everything you want.

Except win competitions, and he is looking for a target rifle.

Hmmmm, depends on the type of competition, but I don't think George Gardner would agree...

http://www.6mmbr.com/243win.html

Popularity trends don't matter so much as what the winner of the comp was using

The link I shared above about George's success with the SAAMI .243 is a pretty good indication that the .243 CAN win competitions. The winner depends a lot more on the shooter than the cartridge when comparing anything in that list.

Not saying there is anything "wrong" with the 243. The newer cartridges like the 6xc and 6 Creed certainly have been updated though with less case taper and a steeper shoulder. Not to mention offering a little more latitude in the mag box for longer bullets.

Everyone runs around with a hardon for Ackley rounds, but when a company offers a factory cartridge with less taper and steep shoulder they get no love for some reason.

And I think the type of competition specified by the OP was:

-targets out to 800 yards
-shooting in local groundhog shoots/matches
-possibly hunting groundhogs or deer but pretty unlikely

I didn't see anything about tactical comps, 3 gun, clays, or anything else.

Nothing like starting a ruckus and then leaving....

thebigcheese109 (Member #39637)
User
Registered On: 01/18/12 11:54 AM
Last Online: 01/23/14 09:29 AM

Don't think the OP much cared about winning competitions...

6mm Remington

I think there are better case designs than the .243AI. I prefer a 30 deg shoulder over a 40, and shorter case length is nice in a SA rifle. I'd take the Creed over the .243 if brass, reamers, and dies were no issue. But from a purely performance stand point, neither the XC nor the Creed can keep up to the .243AI.

My next barrel with be either a 7-08AI or a 7 Creed. Hmmmm, decisions!

Nice.
7-08AI is the better 260 AND the better 308 all in one..

I definitely got the Ackley bug out of my system. Having owned 4 different ones, I am done making cases to shoot full performance loads.

PS. brass, reamers and dies aren't an issue with the 6 Creed.

They are an issue up here.

"-shooting in local groundhog shoots/matches"

So you think he intends to try and lose these matches?

LOL, so which is it- does he want to win matches, or not? If so, is the .243 not capable of winning, assuming he's a good enough shot? I think I know what George Gardner would say...

LOL,

The OP mentioned shooting in competitions/matches shot from a bench (groundhog shoots). He's looking for help choosing a 6mm cartridge. Between the 6br and the 243, IMO its an easy choice that the 6br will be more accurate with less barrel heat in long strings and better barrel life (something George Gardner doesn't have to worry about quite so much!). Do you think that a 243 is as accurate as a 6br off a bench?

We're not talking short-range BR, here...

Do you think the 6BR is better at shooting through the wind than the .243 at 800 yards?

LOL, you keep bringing up things no one is discussing - tactical competitions, short range benchrest, etc.



I'll take the 6br for reasons already listed. But, we can just agree to disagree. Good shooting to you.

Funny you left this part of it out. Which supports Jordan Smith's response. So like Jordan has said the .243 will do all the OP is asking for and very well. So what is the OP getting from the 6br and at what cost?

LOL, just like its funny you left this part out:

Sure the 243 will do all the OP is asking, LOTS of cartridges would be able to be used. MY OPINION is the 6br will be better for

-targets out to 800 yards
-shooting in local groundhog shoots/matches
-possibly hunting groundhogs or deer but pretty unlikely

because of better accuracy, less barrel heat during long strings of shots, less recoil for spotting your own shots, less powder consumption, and longer barrel life.

Actually, the correct answer is 6 Dasher......

Define "better accuracy".

Would your 6BR improve on this .243AI group?




Or this one?



This one?



How about this?



Maybe this one?



Or this one?



Maybe your 6BR could improve on all those groups, but I'd be willing to bet that it's the rifleman that would do the improving, not the cartridge. The inherent accuracy differences between different cartridges become less and less significant as the range extends (he's shooting out to 800 yards), and the ability to deal with wind and terrain matters more and more.

The interchange between you and I started off being about your statement that the .243 couldn't win competitions. It had nothing to do with the 6BR being better or worse for the OP's purposes than the .243. I can definitely see some pro's in the 6BR's favour, which you mentioned, but the .243 has some advantages, too, like ammo/brass cost and availability, and increased MV.

105 Berger Hybrids at 3100fps....case design can be whatever floats your boat.

Agreed. I'm betting a GAP Crusader in .243 would bug hole just fine

BTW slm, those groups above were shot with a factory Rem barrel, not a high-zoot aftermarket barrel you typically see on 6BR rifles...

I left that out because he stated "not sure". But you still didn't tell me all what the OP will gain with the 6br and at what expense.

Like everything in life there is a plus and a minus but I think the .243 will fill his needs well. But yes like Scenar said there are a lot of options with the right bullet.

This is where we went different directions. My statement ONLY PERTAINED to the OP's purposes, as that's what this thread is about. When I said it couldn't win competitions, of course I was only talking about the type of matches THE OP PUT FORTH in the thread - target shooting to 800 and local groundhog matches (from a bench). MY OPINION is that the 6br is a better mousetrap for that application than the 243 and I've laid out several reasons why. I understand that there are tradeoffs, and OF COURSE the shooter makes a difference.


Again, "because of better accuracy, less barrel heat during long strings of shots, less recoil for spotting your own shots, less powder consumption, and longer barrel life."

The expense would be lower muzzle velocity, dies are a little more expensive, and less options for brass/ammo.

I love the 243 and 243ai and own a couple. IME for LR target shooting and bench shooting out to 800, the BR case (and now the Dasher/etc also) are more accurate and I think equipment lists and results from matches would bear this out.

Fair enough answer.

All those things make the 6BR an awesome target round.
But I feel the best fit for a 6BR is in a single shot target rifle.

A 6XC cartridge was designed for competition in magazine fed rifles.
And it's in the sweet spot between the 243 and 6BR. It just eliminates the small negatives from these others and makes good sense for high volume target shooting

First off I'd like to apologize if I offended aalf or anyone else for not responding. Since my initial post there's been some major changes in my life and I don't currently have the money or the time to build this rifle like I'd hoped to.

But if anyone one was wondering which one I actually would pick, even after reading all the responses, I still don't know. If I get the chance to build the rifle it will probably come down to what I can get the best deal on.

Thanks for all the input.

If one were to build a 243 win, why not go AI? I have a 243 and if I ever rebarrel it will be a 243ai. Compared to a vanilla 243 the AI version gives up nothing.

6BR - built more than any other chambering.

Last shot 1/4" time and again at 200 yds for 3-shots, with 66 and 105s. Another, a Ruger #1, shot UNDER 1/2" at 330 yds...

Now re: 243s - never had a bad one, bore life - yes about half a BR.

6mm Rem - had a Ruger 77V, tang, had been chopped to 21" - shot 97gr VLD Hammet bullets into ONE HOLE, 5 once fired Fed cases, BR primers, H450 powder, no longer mfg. Gun had NOTHING done to bedding, trigger turned down, that was it.

Deer on menu? Shot them at LRF 400 yds with a BR - piled up in 20 yds double lunged with a golf ball sized exit using Amax.

Pick your poison. Bbl life matters and the BEST accuracy, BR.

A match precision, easy to load accurate case for a no fuss repeater?

6 XC
243
6 Rem

In that order. A Creedmoor would fit the bill.

Few flies on a 243, save bbl life and brass stretch....

One thing is certain, 6s ROCK, and an 8 twist is a given.

I'd focus on 107s and under. 115s work for some - not so well for others, Throat accordingly.

Real interesting reading. I'm new to the 243/6mm so I am learning alot from you guys. Thank you.

I have the 6mmBR, 243, and 6mmRem reamers and some hardware from the other 6mm cartridges.

There is a trade off. The 6mmBR brass is great. The barrel burning is slow.

But if you are not shooting thousands of shots and you want to reach out there, you want the bigger cartridge.