Might build a custom rifle, Talking to the builder about calibers and he mentioned the popularity of the .280 AI

I’ve never really looked at that cartridge before but I see where it has several benefits to it,

Decent amount of reloading data available.
Good factory brass available,
Good selection of bullets from several manufacturers,
Uses moderate amounts of common powders, H4350. IMR 4350. Etc…

Looks like we could hit about 3000 fps with a 24 inch barrel and a 150 grain bullet?

I believe 1-8 twist barrel is what we talked about

Any other cartridge I might be looking at?

If you own/owned one, tell about it’s like and dislikes.

I am selling my Kenny Jarrett 280ai bean field rifle if you are interested : Real nice rifle with Swarovski 6x24 scope. Loads of brass, bullets , Jarrett loaded ammo that they developed for the rifle and dies

Read up on his writing on his 280ai in the link below. It is pretty interesting

https://www.jarrettrifles.com/pet-calibers.html

I’m left handed, and looking for a left handed rifle.

A 280AI with handloaded 150's,can't hang with a 264 Kreed and Factory Fodder. Hint.

Give bullets a farrrrrrr greater thunk,than you have thus far and simply connect dots by default. Hint.................

Fantastic cartridge. I have had 4 LH bolts in this, and have one now. Best '06 based cartridge, and high on the list of best 7mm as well.


Or, use a 7mm-08 on a 416 Rigby length action with 195 grain bullets, if chasing BC, BS, and smoochies is your fantasy.

In the real world, the 280 AI will serve you very well.

KenBitchagain,

What were the "odds",that besides being a Drooling CLUELESS Fhuqktard,that you just "happen" to be a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit to boot...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................

I built one on a pre 64 M70 action/MCM stock and am very happy with how it turned out. I shoot 145 LRX at 3050 FPS. use it for deer/elk.

I have a 264 Kreed, And now I’m thinking I might like a .280 AI

I thought you used to be a big fan of the 7s?

Love love love my Jarrett 280AI. I’ve had two of them. I get 3213 fps with 140 grain Ballistic Tips and right at 3000 fps with 150’s in my current Jarrett. She just shoots little bugholes. Last years final sight in before hunting season my four shot group went 0.081”. RL-23 is it’s preferred powder.

I lusted after one hard in the 90's. Never built one. Later, wiser lol - I have no interest.

If I was married to a 7mm (I'm not) - I don't know why I'd go 150 grain. I'd be 162 Amax or if needing/wanting some other construction or speed 120 TTSX and it would be 7-08. Modest even more on powder and great Lapua brass available. When/should I shoot out the barrel on my Montana - it's going to be duped but 6.5 Creed to replace it though.

Unless you are planning to shoot regularly over 400 yards?

Just seems like a lota fuss, when the .270 Win. will do the same inside of that.

And a 1:8 twist .270 Win. might even give it a run w/ the newer bullet offerings.




GR

I believe his hint regards bullets, not caliber or cartridge.

Thinking BC:

6.5 143 eldx is .625
6.5 147 eldm is .697

7mm 150 eldx is .574
7mm 175 eldx is .689
7mm 180 eldm is .796


Changing the bullet changes the comparison. Of course factor in speed, powder wieght, etc...whatever factors are important to you. 175 7mm from a 280AI is going to be ~ the same speed as a 147 6.5 from a CM.....and things are getting on a more even comparison flight wise.

The 145LRX has a BC of .486 and is fhuqking dismal. Hint.

The 140 and 150 NBT's,are shy of that. Hint.

The 8" RPM .277" has NOTHING going for it and the 170gr Berger's BC is .662. Again shy of Factory Kreed. Hint.

'CUBIC connects dots and at like pressure,the 280AI will arrange the 175gr .689 BC,at Kreed 147 .697 BC speeds. If duping same,warrants a transition to a long action and horns you up...simply have your way. The increase in recoil,cost,loudness,weight and the like,do not "bolster" results. Hint.

Now the .284" 180 and their .796 BC,are simply fhuqking splendid and 190's at .838 even more so. Hint.



Bullets matter MOST ladies. Hint..................

To a hunting rifle and marksman... BC's are so much barbie doll clothes.

Enjoy them, if that's your thing.


The game will taste the same, regardless.

Even w/ good ole flat-based PSP bullets.




GR

Given where Stick hunts - literally 1/2 the time/days during hunting season, they see winds greater than 17mph. BC and wind drift are a concern. Over 20 days a month with wind speeds over 12 mph. At range - it matters.

It is a Crying CLUELESS Karen constant,that ballistic coefficient is a "Dirty Word!",despite EVERY projectile having a form of said designator. Hint.

BC factors drop,drift,impact velocity and certainly terminal effects,to the perpetual chagrin of Melting Snowflakes the World over. Starting velocity,isn't impact velocity and it's never not HILARIOUS,to grant Clueless Drooltards the opportunity to quantify their Fhuqktardation. Hint.

Pardon my being afforded the luxuries of not being forced to guess,due the simplistic fact that I shoot it all. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

So, aiming 16" into the wind at 400 yards is a problem?

Already aiming 2' high as it is.

The game will taste the same.




GR

I’ll take all the cheat I can within reason.

Assumes you can correctly call the wind - EVERY time. BC helps make mistakes smaller at the other end.

BC - doesn't replace marksmanship.

The game will taste the same.




GR

GaranDismal,

Cite your contrived chambering/projectile,along with throat/COAL/RPM particulars,if only to rub your nose further in your own STUPIDITY...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I'd be REAL careful. HINT.



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Not that you didn't have to steal a pic for "your" avatar. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

There is zero downside to BC and the game tastes the same - assumes you get the game when your wind call was off and the softball you shot goes 16 inches into the guts instead of the lungs.

No. It sure doesn’t. Never inferred that. But you knew that.

You’re pissing in the wind brother. That fella has either never shot in a breeze or is just defending ol faithful. Arguing to be less lethal is a new one for me.

True enough.




GR

If the difference in BC determines a hit or miss?

... then you are no longer hunting.

You are simply shooting... irresponsibly... at game.




GR

GaranDismal,

I'm VERY "surprised" at your silence. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

That's just not correct.

You either haven't shot even at mid range distance in much wind or are just trying to stir the pot.

If it's to simply to argue, carry on. If it's ignorance, you may want to stop, you are in over your head

Is anything that a 6.5 queermore can do that a 280ai can't, besides fit into a short action?

On the contrary.

Hunt to 300 yds. regularly, and 400 yds. and a little further on occasion... in all wind conditions.

What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?

Or drop, for that matter?




GR

TrueSchit,

Your keyboard is slurring,as you espouse your Homoerotic Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for trying though.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

GaranDismal,

You are doing fhuqking "great!"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



Google on,you Amazingly CLUELESS Fhuqk. Hint.

Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Not that you didn't have to steal a pic for "your" avatar. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?

Or drop, for that matter?


Need some help w/ this one?

BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

GranDismal,

You Amazingly STUPID Fhuqks are a hoot...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



338-Twat-Six with 250gr Barnes Solid's KNOWN BC of .247 G1. Drop also KNOWN. Impact velocity also KNOWN and all factored by BC. Hint.




Flipside,with same rifle,same weight projectile,same launch speed,same atmosphere and same 100yd zero. The only fhuqking difference,being BC,as applied to a 250 Skinner and it's .322 G7 designator of same. 'Course a G7 drag function designator,is effectively 50% of the G1 value and now even you "know". KNOWN BC. Drop also KNOWN. Impact velocity also KNOWN and all factored by BC. Hint.






250 Skinner magfed Smooches,are rather Skookum. You might wanna gawk drop,impact velocity,"energy" and even time of flight,then factor how BC is/was the only change. Hint.




Google on,you Amazingly CLUELESS Fhuqk. Hint.

Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Not that you didn't have to steal a pic for "your" avatar. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

After listening to Stick rant about the 180 ELDM, I built a 280 AI, using Lapua brass, throated for the 180g ELDM, IMR 7828, FEd 210....Shocked is an understatement on 400 and 550 yard targets. Deer and Hogs collapse on the spot...

A Real World lesson BC...Something you just have to see to believe! The load is worth building a rifle around, and small groups abound, near and far!

Thanks Stick!

The Added weight of the 280 counts…. I built my 280 AI a while back, and she likes them hot…

I had a 270 and it likes 140 grain bullets but it couldn’t get them up there… the wider hole in the 280 does a lot.

Twatscooter,

Your sheer and utter CLUELESSNESS,is simply fhuqking AMAZING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



A diameter "difference" equal to (2) fhuqking layers of Scotch Tape,can NOT,will NOT and assuredly do NOT "skew" terminal effects. Hint.

Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will ALWAYS be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

I mentioned 150’s (and heavier) has this gun would take over where the 6.5 ends,

I have the creed, all set there, 127 LRX and 140 BERGERS.

looking for a gap between the 6.5 and my .30 cals.

I somewhat agree with you, The shots at game I’ve missed, the miss had little to do with some little 3 digit number.

I've yet to suffer my first BC "failure"(in over a million tries),but I've sure as fhuqk had LOTS of scopes puke. Hint.

'Course,I actually shoot. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............

Is this a difficult question to answer?

What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?

Or drop, for that matter?


BC's only real value is Energy down range.

... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

Stick clearly answered your question using the 338-06 as a model a few posts ago

My thoughts are get what YOU want....these discussions go south pretty quick

LOL, Truth.

You asked for recommendations and got good answers, just don't expect everyone will agree with one another. As far as "going south", you already knew these type of questions lead to that.

I still don't know what a 6.5 queermore can do that a 280ai can't, besides fit into a short action. What's the difference in wind drift between a bullet traveling 2700fps with a 600 bc compared to a bullet traveling 3000fps with a 500 bc at 400 and 500 yds? Stick to facts stick.

We're talking 280ai not 338-06. Stick deflected like he always does when he doesn't like what the facts say.

Kenneth, I built a 280AI a few years ago. Had an itch for a custom on M70 Classic Stainless. After shopping for a long time with no luck finding a short action, I settled for a long action and built the 280AI. It shoots great. 140 BT’s over RL22 & RL23 at 3200 fps, and 150 ELDX over RL26 at 3100 fps are exceptionally accurate in this rifle. Haven’t done much load development for 162’s but I’m sure it’ll stack them nicely……but that is kinda where the shine starts to get a little dull. Recoil of of a 162 at 2900ish is pretty stout. Also, the rifle is a bit heavy for my liking at just over 8.5 lbs scoped and empty. Those 140 & 150 loads work well, although not tried to run the ELDX into a shoulder at 100 yards from a 3100 fps start, but I can get equally good performance out to 500 yards with less powder, recoil and weight. That leaves the 162+ pills as the only options that seem to offer advantages to me.

All that said, if you need to scratch an itch, it’s a good killin cartridge, but personally, I wouldn’t do it again.

His chart shows it pretty well

250’s started at the same speed.

.247 BC drifts 31” and has 1050 FTLB at the 400 yard line.

.648 BC drifts 9.7” and has over 2300 FTLBs at the 400 yard mark.

Why did he use the G1 on one example and the G7 on another?

Serious question,

But that doesn't answer the question.

Now, given, say, a flat-based .270 Win/150 gr. NP (BC= 0.465) at 2900 fps at the muzzle and a 200 yd. zero.

At 400 yards, w/ a full deflection 10-knot wind, it's:
- doin' 2150 fps.
- carryin' 1540 ft-lbs.
- droppin' 21 in.
- blowin' 12 in.

As both the velocity and energy are adequate for that bullet?

... I'm only correcting for the drop and wind.

How does a little extra BC change that?


Correcting less - doesn't replace correcting correctly.

BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

No clue, maybe that’s what he had loaded in the profile for his gun.

Numbers remain the same though with either factor.

If you can judge a 7MPH wind or a 14MPH wind every time, right on the money, you’re right, adding BC makes no difference cause you’ve got it licked.

At what range does the actual difference between the BC's matter, and at that point, how critical is the wind call for even the higher BC bullet?

... and is a prudent, ethical hunter shooting at that range?

400 is already way the hell out there.




GR

What precisely do you think the word “placebo” means?

I don’t get into what’s ethical for others with more gear.

But the wind may be nil where your shooting from, but your bullet has to cross a several hundred foot deer canyon and connect with the buck or bull on the other side.

Wind is stronger the higher above the ground you get, but might not be much from where you’re triggering the shot, so having some margin in being able to slip the wind isn’t a bad thing.



The bullet has to travel over a few different wind streams to get to the far side. Having some forgiveness is helpful.

Amen.
I’ll take all the extra margin I can get. Enough other shít can go wrong that if I can decrease my wind deflection by 100% or more, I’ll greedily take such an easy reality.

This

I'll take any edge I can get, even on 350 to 400 yard shots. At those distances where I hunt the wind can be shifting dramatically between me and my target.

try telling that to the fellas that shoot the KING of 2 MILE competition

Why not use ballistically superior projectiles that fit into your platform at mag length?

I have a 280 AI on a 700 blue printed action - maybe I’ll wring it out this summer. I bought it after I read a write up by MD.
I have 280’s and 7mm RM’s, so I didn’t really need a 290AI but I was thinking it would make an excellent long range coyote rifle. The barrel is varmint weight and 26” long. I have it in a nice synthetic stock and a good scope on it. Too many projects though.

Ladies,

Your Fhuqktardation,is simply MAGFNIFICENT in it's grandeur...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

JBM is handy for you Window Licking Droolers,because it will denote specific projectiles,some of which populate as G1 drag functions,others as G7. I get it,that your version of "Reloading" is putting colored water in your SuperSoakers and that your Amazing STUPIDITY,is no "act". You'd do well to simply take notes and apply same. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

The 250 Skinner,as per JBM's populated particulars(G7). Hint.



In extrapolation to Lapooey's cited G1 drag function of same,which precludes the ability to change JBM's populated version,retaining the projectile's nomenclature. Please note the "differences" ladies. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!




I'd submit that a 264 Kreed with a 140 Berger,is operating at 80% of potential,assuming a tailwind. If one gets giddy at replicating Kreed potential,via shift to a long action and adding 15-20grs of propellant to the equation,that is just fhuqking FUNNY. Hint.

It's entertaininger than fhuqk,that there's always gonna be Drooling Brokedicks in the back of the class,eating crayons and licking windows. Fortunately for them,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even they can "afford" to "contribute",with their "what if" GooglFu and riveting Retardation. Some folks simply shoot and they "get" to read about it,which must be VERY "rewarding",for them of the ilk. Hint.

Pardon a 264 Kreed with a .697 G1 BC at 2700fps,for melting sooooooooo many Snowflakes. Pardon reality and wares that exist. Hint.

Bless your poor poor(literally) hearts,for trying though.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

They shooting game at 2 MILES with a good hit probability?


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

You Amazingly STUPID Fhuqks are on a roll...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Pardon wares that exist,as you Drootards flounder in your Fhuqktardation. Hint.



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Not that you didn't have to steal a pic for "your" avatar. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

There is no question that high BC bullets drift less and drop less than those with a lower BC and, if you are shooting at long range, a big difference in BC can make a big difference in wind drift and drop. It can make a much greater difference than more velocity, for instance.
When I was shooting a lot of "F" class competition, I mostly shot a 6.5 with 142 Sierras or 139 Scenars and was satisfied with the performance of them. When I dropped a point, it was usually because I missed a change and it usually wasn't a case where a little better BC would have helped.
I shot a 6,5x55 because I felt that anything over 2700 fps to start was plenty. I also shoot 308's with 155 Scenars and, trust me, there is a noticeable difference between what a 155 30 cal at 2900 does compared to the 139 at 2750 and one is better off sticking with one or the other so as to not make too many mistakes in wind compensation.
When it comes to hunting, it's a little different deal. In the picture shown by Beretz, he hints that extra BC can help if there is a bull elk on the far hillside. In my mind, what can help even more is the ability to anticipate where that bull is going to be by the time you work your way over to intercept him. Different strokes. This difference in philosophy means I can feel just fine with 140 Noslers in the 6.5 because, chances are, I'll be taking the shot at less than 200 yards or, as usually happens, I won't be taking it at all;). A few inches of wind drift at long range is meaningless in this context.
All of this has little to do with the 280AI and more to do with what one is trying to accomplish. If the goal is to achieve the best long range performance you can, the 280AI will probably work fairly well to drive high BC bullets at decent velocities. I built a rifle like this in about 1980 and it worked quite well. It would drive 168 Sierras (which was the chosen bullet at the time) to about 2950fps. Other cartridges would accomplish much the same thing but the 280AI is popular today so it's not a bad choice.
If one just wants to build a great mountain rifle which will be good to carry and useful on big game, using bullets from 140 to 175 grains, the 280 AI (or the standard 280) is just fine. So is the 7mm Mag. GD

dumbdog,

Your inabilities and Drooling Dumbfhuqktitude are simply fhuqking HILARIOUS...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I enjoy how very "REAL!" your Imagination and Pretend are,to you. That you've never even seen a .697 BC .264" projectile,only adds to the HILARITY. Hint.

Now you can say you've "seen" one,which makes this a very BIG Day for you. Pardon wares that exist,as you GoogleFu a FIRST fhuqking clue. Hint.



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

Dip Stick,
Not that it really matters but the Hornady 143's on the bench must be close. The Noslers are only .658 but, like I said, it doesn't really matter. Any 136 to 144 grain 6.5 isn't going to suck too badly. If a .600 bullet shoots 1/2 moa and a .690 shoots 3/4, I'll use the .600 and deal with the wind. My dies produce a bullet much like the Hornady.
I'll confess to not competing as much as I used to; I have to drive too far. I still shoot a little though and have two ranges on my property.
I agree with you that bullets matter more than headstamps but just how they matter is the question. BC isn't always everything. You take care. GD

DumbDog,

I get it,besides being a CLUELESS Fhuqk you are also Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,for Lying,Crying and Whining.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

You're on the wrong track, here. First, energy down-range is about at the bottom of the list of reasons why high BC helps. Second, missing your target is all about errors and error stack. BC is not a placebo for marksmanship, unless of course you define marksmanship as using the lowest shooting technology possible, but rather high BC aids marksmanship because it reduces uncertainties, and consequently reduces errors (where error here is the difference between your guessed/intended value and the true value).

A couple of years ago I built a computational model that helps visualize the errors involved in external ballistics, similar to Litz' WEZ software. It simulates a number of shots taken in identical conditions, but where there is some uncertainty in the value of various parameters. This helps illustrate the benefit to higher BC.

In the following 1000-shot simulations the target width is 17.7", and I've assumed a shooter/rifle capable of keeping all shots within 1 MOA from POA, full-value wind speed (including gusts) of 12+/-7 mph, distance of 400+/-1 m, velocity ES of 20 fps, RH of 50%, temp of 46 F, and absolute pressure of 26 HgIn. The only difference between the two is the bullet and the MV. You can see that BC can make a big difference, even at 400 meters, even with the lower-BC bullet having a MV advantage.

.277 150 PT at 2950 fps:



.264 147 ELD at 2700 fps:

It all depends on the bullets chosen. If comparing a high-BC bullet in the 6.5 and a low-BC bullet in the .280AI, the 6.5 will be a shorter, lighter rifle, burn less powder, have less recoil and muzzle blast, and be at least as likely to arrive at the POA (if not more-so).

For comparison:

.284" 160 NP at 2900 fps

And this is my point.

Academics.

In a 20-knot gust environment?

I'm not shooting at game at 400 yards.

Why?

Because with all your academic high-technology... you don't control the wind.

How does your High BC wonder-bullet respond when you took the shot, and it was +/- 20 when you pulled the trigger?


A marksman and ethical hunter would know better.

... and get closer.


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

Tag

You failed to see the point, even when it was displayed in front of your eyes.

The simulated wind was 12 +/- 7 mph, not +/- 20 knots. And even in that wind, with the gusts, in this particular example the 6.5 kept all shots within about 12", or approximately the vital zone of a BG animal, while the .270 did not.

Great posts Jordan, and excellent work. You may be wasting your time with some of the audience, but your methods and data presentation are crystal clear.

For comparison. 7mm 180 ELD at 3000 fps:

Physics matters. Whether one likes it, or not. Nice graphs.

GaranDismal,

When your projectile selection is influenced 1/3 as much as another,a 10mph influx,is the same as a 30mph....you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Not that I don't enjoy you doing your BEST,with what incredibly little you "have" to "work" with. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Indeed.

The contrast only gets more stark as the distance increases. 500 meters:

A drug company would pay billions for that kind of placebo effect.

Who wants to save me 15 minutes of googling,

What bullet is that^^^^^^^^^^^

And that doesn't even account for your shoulder's well-being.

Got a 6.5 CM and two 280AI in the safe right now. Mag length and twist limit my 280AI's to 160's.

Good to hear your favorable experience with the 180ELDM, and after looking at Jordan's 500M comparison charts, I may need to build another 280AI throated and twisted for 180's.

There has never been any doubt that high BC bullets will buck the wind better. In fact many have embraced them as a panacea; as a substitute for learning to read wind and mirage. I don't disagree with the concept in many respects but, on the target range, you still have to read the wind and in the hunting field, you still have to know when to pass on a shot; unless you want to impress your friends with a clean gut shot.
Hey Dip Stick,
I could send you a picture of bullets I have but I shoot mine, rather than taking pictures of them. I'm going to walk back to the 100m range for some rimfire practice now. You can take some more pictures while I'm shooting. Maybe some of those nice steelhead pics. GD

Preferably not as a substitute for, but an addition to.

DumbDog,

It's Your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I'm "unfamiliar" with Rimfires. DO "tell". Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!



Sadly,I've never heard of said fish either. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................

So the cliff notes version is shoot ball ammo in your .30-06

I think the “academics” are above the grasp of targeted audience. LOL

Excellent info. Thanks for sharing.

Some belong to that camp for sure but many count heavily on the bullet to out smart the wind for them. Nonetheless, I concede that the better the bullet, the less the mistakes will hurt. GD

The bullet in my simulation: 6.5mm 147 gr ELD-M.

Jesus, what a piece of schit.

Thekchunt,

Don't be too hard on DumbDog,she does the best she can,just like you. Perhaps you gals can combine "powers",so as to keep things "fair"?!? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

+/- 20-knots?

No, you failed to grasp that your academic snow-globe of artificial constraints was ruined by a little real world probability.

Or, does your computer simulator control Mammie Nature as well?

Shooting at game animals.


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

Just out of curiosity,...what would that be? The Prob. that is.

You’re like a broken record; except the record isn’t what you think it is.

Your feelings.

Care to expand on them?




GR

Lacking.

Like your understanding of “placebo.”

What he's trying to say is ... since he is incapable of utilizing high bc bullets in a long range hunting scenario then no one else should either


gotta love the 'tards with similar lines of bullshyte like

"the tooty ot six has killed more animals than blah, fkn blah"

"the tooty tooty is all my grandpa & pa ever used, blah"

"all you need is a fixed 4x scope, blah blah"

"we used iron sights in da arrrrrmy"

and other mindless eye roll inducing useless bytes of drivel

You should write children's books.


High-BC bullets - add down-range energy.

And, in the game fields, a placebo for marksmanship.


So ya know.




GR

Outside of the std. use applied to this condition?

Make your point, if you can.




GR

You continually make my point every time you insist that BC has no impact upon field accuracy.

NO BODY EVER [bleep] LISTENS, NO BODY! I DID!

Thank you Stick!

180 ELD-M...have to see to believe!

280-R#17

280 AI-IMR 7828, fed 210's!

7 Rem mag at 2850-R#22 CCI 250's

Where the Hell Have I Been all those years?

Even 400 yard shooting/kill'en is greatly improved! Confidence is everything! Thousands of $ wasted down the rat hole previously!

Thanks Stick!

Keith

Ps Buy 20 boxes of the 180g ELD-m in 7mm when they come up....flattens deer and large hogs...I schitt you not!!

I did write about a child ..........

Hey Keith,

I've sure I've read it many times,but I forget easily these days... What is the twist needed to run the 180s?

Thanks !
Tim in Michigan

Hornady lists 1/8 as the min for the 180 eldm and the 190 atip:

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/7mm-.284-180-gr-eld-match#!/

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/7mm-.284-190-gr-a-tip-match#!/

I screwed up when I had my 280AI put together and got a 1/8.3 (was avaiable), which is good for the 175 eldx...but the 1/8 would have worked fine for it as well....just started playing with the 175 eldx and it's not a bad place to be...but I'd go 1/8 had I known then:

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/7mm-284-175-gr-eld-x#!/

You can get twist recommendations on any of Hornady's 7mm bullets by choosing them at the following:

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/#!/

An OEM Big Green 9" and change RPM spout,7mm Rem Mag will stabilize 180's at low tide in the Winter. Hint.................

Anything that makes the shot more accurate contributes to marksmanship.

Either he’s drinking or I am,

Maybe both…

It would help if he used the English language.

Hint.

Jordan, Could you run the BC numbers on this trout for me?

I’m not sure if were shooting the fish or using the fish to shoot with,

It might make sense eventually, thanks in advance…………

Queeneth,

I very MUCH enjoy how your mind numbing STUPIDITY is no "act"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Rather than eating them crayons,you really SHOULD be taking notes. Hint.





Though when the dust settles,as simplistic fact will remain and that being you never even came "close" to turning a lick. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

You keep lauding your copious very WELL founded Insecurities and I'll simply fuel 'em,as you "live" vicaruiously. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

Dude, that is one hell of a Halibut,

BC on that monster must be close to a whole digit.

Not sure how it relates to a rifle thread, but whatever, Carry on Garth.

Everyone here is a "stupid phhucktard" or a "kchunt" except the genius who literally cannot express himself without calling everyone else names. Go figure.

You Whining CLUELESS Kchunts,keep extolling your insecurities and I'll happily fuel 'em,so you gals get to "live" vicariously...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I like Trout. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

I figured if I mentioned Halibut you’d fall right in place and post that same ole Halibut pic you normally post, seen that pic at least 27 times,

‘Stick, you ain’t much of a poker player.

However, I ever come up that way,

You are taking me out ‘catching’………

That 225lber, how much edible meat there?

I need to find out in a personal kinda way.

Queeneth,

I've barely 10,000+ images to sort through and it only comes as a "surprise!" to someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,that I'm not very WELL aware of how you feverishly devour my every word and gawk every Splendid Pixel...you "lucky" Kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Trout Fishing is fun. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

lbs?

That’s the one, It was only a matter of time.

Henway. Hint.





Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I feel genuinely sorry for your wife, kids and co-workers; if you even have a wife, which is doubtful.

Beautiful fish

Hideous rifle.

Thekchunt,

Keep extolling your Hurt Feelers and I'll come to your Emotional Rescue...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Few things as scary,as being charged by an enraged Trout. Double Tap is the ONLY way out. Keep extolling them very WELL founded Insecurities,in that High Pitched Nasal Whine you've perfected,due a lifetime of being a Professional "Victim". Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................

‘Stick, seriously, I’ve seen this pic more than I’ve seen my wife’s bare ass,

You got anything from this decade?

Queeneth,

Your High Pitched Nasal Whine,sure is fhuqking SOOTHING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.



Bless your heart for "living" vicariously,despite it being your ONLY "move". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

The pistol, you shooting the fish or what?

Queeneth,

Your High Pitched Nasal Whine,sure is fhuqking SOOTHING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.



Bless your heart for "living" vicariously,despite it being your ONLY "move". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Lets clarify here,

When I come up there catching,

Bring rod and reel or firearms?

Both?

Appears water is provided.

Queeneth,

Your High Pitched Nasal Whine,sure is fhuqking SOOTHING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.



Bless your heart for "living" vicariously,despite it being your ONLY "move". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

You’re gonna have to up your game,

Getting boring,

What else ya got?

Queeneth,

Your High Pitched Nasal Whine,sure is fhuqking SOOTHING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.

It were a "fair" morning,if only to your chagrin and pardon it not being very "fair" to your "means","abilities" and "comprehension". Hint.



Bless your heart for "living" vicariously,despite it being your ONLY "move". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Wuhan 2022 is too generic,

I’ll require actual dates from now on,

Who takes a sharpie and notebook while stream fishing?

Pistols, Cameras, Rifles, Rods n Reels, Fish, paper&pen,,,,,,

Who carry’s all this crap?

Queeneth,

Your High Pitched Nasal Whine,sure is fhuqking SOOTHING...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.

It were a "fair" morning,if only to your chagrin and pardon it not being very "fair" to your "means","abilities" and "comprehension". Pardon wares that exist. Hint.



Bless your heart for "living" vicariously,despite it being your ONLY "move". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

I think the correct word should have been "panacea" rather than "placebo". Anyone use the RCBS Improved with the 30 degree shoulder rather than the AI with the 40 degree shoulder?

That fish is nearly as fat as Stick. Looks to be a bit taller, though. 😂😂😂

Chickenfhuqker,

Use ALL of your "powers"to top it...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

You Whining CLUELESS Brokedick Kchunts are a HOOT! Hint.



Try saying something in English,while you dangle a picture of yourself,on a Donkey?!? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...........

You Delusional Crying Kchunt Fhuqkqtards are a HOOT! Hint.



Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

Hey stick,
I'm gonna change the direction of all this since your so active here.
Do you shoot any living creatures with a 6mm , 105gr bthp, like Grendel black ?
I know some match ammo works well on flesh, and some don't.
Figure I'd ask here since this is a new bullet to me.
Thanks.

No, placebo.

... something that you think cures something... but actually does nothing.

BC - is a placebo for Marksmanship.

Exactly correct.




GR

pla·cebo
[pləˈsiːbəʊ]
NOUN
a medicine or procedure prescribed for the psychological benefit to the patient rather than for any physiological effect.
synonyms:
medication · medicament · remedy · cure · nostrum · patent medicine · quack remedy · panacea · cure-all · drug · prescription · dose · treatment · physic · medicinal
a substance that has no therapeutic effect, used as a control in testing new drugs.
a measure designed merely to humour or placate someone:
"pacified by the placebos of the previous year, they claimed a moral victory"


pana·cea
[ˌpanəˈsiːə]
NOUN
a solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases:
"the panacea for all corporate ills" · [more]
synonyms:
universal cure · cure-all · cure for all ills · universal remedy · sovereign remedy · heal-all · nostrum · elixir · wonder drug · perfect solution · magic formula · magic bullet · catholicon · diacatholicon · panpharmacon

This is the POT at the end of the Rainbow!!!!

Buy up 10 boxes of the 180 eld-M when you get a chance, find a gunsmith with a unithroater, throat accordingly. Then you have a Leg up on a lot of JUNK!

Even the lowly 280 with the 180 ELD-M walks off and leaves a lot of JUNK in the dust! Lapua 30/06 brass for the start, and you can not kill it!

Learning curve is a bitch, took me a while, I used to shoot 139 Hornady and 140g Ballistic tips in the 280,AI, and 7 Mag. I throated them all out for the 180g ELDM.

A 9.5” twist 7WSM will stabilize the 180 ELD, but you’re giving up some BC. Go 8” or faster.

105 Hornie HPBT. Hint............

Thanks for the info on twist. I was thinking it was 8, Me thinks mine is only a 9.

Thank you.

I like the cartridge. I didn't like the recoil. Next time around I'm going with a heavier rifle or a brake. Last was a Kimber Montana. 6-1/2 to 6-3/4 pounds with a Leupold 3.5-10X in Talleys aboard. That's too light for something that thinks it's a 7mm mag .. only falls 50 fps or so short.

Tom

The Kimber's bane is itty-bitty COAL latitude,though they'd likely make a fine high RPM Six Twat-Six donor. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I am at 500 ft elevation, all of mine are 9 Twists, also in a Rem 700 factory sporter in 7 Mag. I have 8.5 and 8.75 in reserve, waiting their turn.

Build a .280 Rem and go hunting.

Agreed on the weight issue,

There’s a balance beam effect here,

I’m looking for a mid-weight hunting rifle,,,,7.5-7.75 lbs scoped, heavy enough to enjoy taking to the range,,I do shoot my rifles,,,,
Light enough that I’ll call it my ‘mountain rifle’.

I had mentioned 150ish grain bullets, I like Barnes monos, they kill,
The conversation then went towards 180 grain target bullets, yes I know there’s ELD expanding bullets,
Then to fully utilize these long range high BC bullets, I’d think you’d want a reliable turret twisting scope,
Then the weight issue comes back into play,,,

But all in all, appreciate everyone’s comments.

I'm 650-700 ft elevation.
Might just have to try and find a few 180's to try.

I like the 280, 280AI & the 7mm RM. there’s not enough difference with these to make a difference for me.
I have multiple 280’s (7mm Express), one 280 AI and a couple 7mm RM’s. I tried to let go of one of the 7mm RM’s but for some reason people seem to think of the cartridge as the red-headed child.

I have a factory Kimber 280ai... shot deer with it
I built a Sav 110 280ai with Bartlein...shot targets
I built a 1949 Win M70 in 280ai with Bartlein...shot antelope
I built a 1930 Braz Mauser 280ai with Pac Nor...have not shot it yet.

I think the 280AI is a fine hunting cartridge.

I had my first ,280 AI built in 1986.
M700 Douglas air gaged no4. 1-10.
The load I ran was 140g ballistic tip over 64g of H4831.
Figure 3140fps.
This from a time when BTs we're bombs.
I hunted deer all over North America and Canada for 15 years and never had a complaint.
No clicken. No dicken.
Nothing within 500 yards was safe.
You can run all the gack stuff you want.
For deer and similar sized animals.
And now with factory cases and mono bullets.
It's solid performer it's hard to beat.
dave

That poor rifle seen the outside of the safe in a decade Dave?

"Air guaged" lmmfao ! folks still believe that it really is a thing ?

Good job, Clark

That’s too bad but I’d never step over a good 7 Rem Mag for a 280 myself. A good 700 or a 70 with a 3.6” box is a wholly capable rig in my book for fillin the meat locker.

Typically only skilled machinists and tool makers.

Probably not a lot of air gauges out in the Swamp, chuckle head.

Just Sayin.

Haha

some of these guys believe that "air gauged" is a process that makes barrels more accurate, countless times I've seen this line of crap

it means simply that said barrel maker will take xx amount of barrels and "air gauge" them & select the best ones out of the batch , means they make tomato stakes / tent pegs and pick the best out of the pile of ......

"air gauged" is a gimmick ya commie

How to tell us that you don't know about barrel making without just saying "I don't know about barrel making".

Well done.

the fact remains..... that air gauging is not a barrel accurizing process of any sort, contrary to what you believe and others like you, who are easily swayed by nonsense ......

it's a selection process ... picking out the best out of a batch by whatever means .. ie "air gauging" ...., then you are left with seconds & turds from the same lot, this is how you end up with crap barrels, when the whole batch is shyte, you end up the best turd out of the pile .... most of the air gauged barrels don't ever come close to the quality & accuracy of the better brands, cheap shyte is cheap shyte

I have never heard of air gauging being described as an accurizing process.

I wore it out

Dave

Drill a hole 24,26,28,or 30 inches deep.
Get back to me when you can tell how straight that hole is.
Without using a air gage.
Dave

That's not what I meant. I know quite well it's a measurement method for checking the uniformity of the bore. Uniformity of cross section, not straightness as long as we're being particular.

What he means is - air gauging is a measurement, not a change affected upon the barrel.

Take a barrel - shoot for record. "Air Gauge" it - it won't shoot better, all you did was measure it. You didn't change the barrel in anyway, thus not an "accurizing process" but a measure of "potential accuracy"

That litterally is the same as saying measuring any thing is just a selection process.

You know jackschitt about making barrels.

There is no way to get process control of deep hole making until you can measure the hole.

It's not the end all be all but is a step in process control of making deep holes in barrels used by many in the premium barrel market.


LOL.

Air gauge won't tell you schitt about straight.


It's not.

Accurizing would take a rifle an make it more accurate.

Air gauging is a way of measuring deep bores for optimising manufacturing processes.

FFS ! first you blast me... then confirm everything I posted , psycho much ? lmao

Your ego gets the best of you, you aren't as smart as you pretend to be online

Aaaaand you know full well I'm talking about Douglas and their ages long "air gauged" selling point bullshitz, no other barrel makers ever mention it

I’m not a barrel expert.
Regarding air gauges barrels:
The rifles that one would buy from CMP are measured, by air gauging, I believe. I like to see a “0” at the end of the barrel particularly. Being uniform is good. Having the end of the barrel the highest number (largest diameter) seems to me the worst scenario.
I always thought that Douglas’ air gauge barrels were very good. I don’t understand how air gauging could be anything but good. A friend, back in the 70’s & 80’s, won a few hunter class bench rest matches using Douglas air gauged barrels. To him, Douglas air gauge was the best for the money.

I‘ve bought a few barrels and I don’t recall buying a Douglas air gauge barrel; because when I bought a 721, 722, 700 the accuracy was already there. When I bought Mausers I usually was unhappy with the accuracy and a new barrel would be installed - same with most ‘other than Remington’ rifles in my price range. Putting on a high dollar barrel on a deer rifle didn’t add up for me. Working hard to get smaller than the MOA I felt good about, on a deer rifle, never made sense. I almost always shoot deer standing up and if I used a rest it would be with two sticks.

I know Remington always measured group sizes before the rifle left the factory. If it wasn’t accurate with factory ammo it would be scrapped. Gunsmiths mostly measure group sizes too when the build a rifle.
As far as high $ barrel manufacturers, I’d think they would measure and maybe the best way was by air gauging. Perhaps though they have perfected the barrel making to such an art that they didn’t need to measure??? That seems unlikely to me.

Always something to argue over here😆

Oh büllshit!

Real world, 7 mag, 9T, throated for the 180g Eldm, R#26, CCI 250, shoots tiny groups on a 26" at 3030 on this one particular barrel.

So, how to build confidence? Shoot on Windy days, middle of the day where winds are swirling. The Combo above seems Magic to say the least in shooting small groups at 300 yards.

Some things you just have to experience.

Ok, some do not like the recoil of the 7 Mag, then try the same thing in a std 280 Rem and 280 AI, and may I suggest that you form your brass from lapua 30/06 brass that will show that primer pockets are tough as an anvil.

The std 280 with the 180g ELDM with just a small amount of powder will perform well beyond your expectations in Real World killing on game. Large Hogs make for some excellent bullet testing.

IME, real-world results are the same as the simulation; the 180 ELD is a beast in the wind. It's also very easy to get to shoot well, and from what I've seen so far, it's a beast on game, too.

gotta love all the bs on the fire anymore....this matters that matters more....i bet 75% of you guys could have killed what you shot last year with grandpas 30-30 he sure managed to feed himself with it.....buy what you want and quit asking for approval from some of these guys and enjoy your purchase