Some of you may remember a post a couple of months ago about Predator versus Borden actions. Karl Feldkamp (Kampfeld Customs) was kind enough to chime in with some real world experiences with a couple of different Predator actions that were out of spec. One was a SA with a .223 bolt face and the other a LA with a mag bolt face.

As some of you may remember the LA belongs to me and it's intent was for a mid 7lb 257 Wby to be used on high plains mulies and whitey's this fall. The action has been returned to Mr. Stiller for inspection and as I write this it has been at Mr. Stillers shop for nearly two months.

I have left two messages in the last three weeks and I know Mr. Feldkamp had tried to contact him prior to that. To this date neither Karl or I have had a returned phone call, e-mail, nothing. When I found out my action was out of spec, I had full confidence that Mr. Stiller would make things right. However, as of 9/19/07 neither Karl or I have heard anything from Jerry negating Mr. Feldkamps findings or confirming them............

Mr. Stiller if you are out there, I would sure like to know what the status of my action is!! Karl and I are both reachable by this forum or by the contact numbers left on your answering machine!

As for the rest of you guys looking to build high quality customs, I believe that the Predator is still a very good option for the money....However I for one am now more willing to pay a little extra for service......Just food for thought.

Here is a link to the original thread...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...owflat/Number/1558884/page/3#Post1558884


X-VERMINATOR

I would not count on a return call personally. I would either let Karl contact them and stay out of it, or if Karl doesn`t care, then I`d call untill I got to the bottom of the pile. My nature would be for me to call if they were disregarding the contact effort. I feel you were owed an explanation a few days into the return, not weeks.

Wow...no return call is BS. I followed the original thread with interest as I'm in the market for a new custom action. I was debating a Stiller but not after all the negative posts. I guess there's a reason people goes with Borden.

Tim, My thoughts are exactly inline with yours...and that's exactly how I've handled it....However, he's had the action nearly two months and after no return calls from Jerry to Karl, I've gotten involved.

I was really looking forward to using this rifle this fall but I guess [bleep] happens.........I've been very patient thus far but my patience is wearing thin at this point. Ya, I'll get over it and life will go on but at this moment it still aggrevates me that we can't get any info from Jerry's shop!


X-VERMINATOR

Here is were we disagree however......I do expect a phone call personally. I forked over the cabage not Karl. If Jerry would rather talk specs and tolerances with Karl, then that's fine by me... Should have done it weeks ago in fact!! All I'm looking for is a, "Yes your action is out of spec and here is what we are gonna do about it." Seems pretty fair to me??


X-VERMINATOR

in the extremely rare cases someone has a problem with the work my business has done 2 things happen, the first is it absolutely bugs me and just about makes me loose sleep until the problem is fixed, also I use it as a chance to prove my business stands behind what it does

The only call I would be wanting is from Karl after his resolve with Stiller.

This may not seem fair as they may have put you back in line for an action or new bolt.

I would not do this if the company were mine, and send a replacement asap.

Your concerns are warranted.

I hope this gets resolved. Until it does, I'll hold a little tighter to the money I've set aside for a Predator action.

I hold customer service in a very high category.

There is a failing with this return, wether of communication, or disregard.

interestingly enough, I was just having a conversation today with my business partners about the crux of this matter:

COMMUNICATION

No matter what type of business or relationship you're in, communication is probably one of the single most important aspects. I'd go so far as to say that 90% or more of all 'problems' start with a breakdown in communication.

In this instance, I don't think anyone is faulting Stiller for having built a piece that was not to spec ... it can and does happen, even to the very best out there. The issue here, is the lack of communication over 2 months.

I would be very upset about this situation if it were me. While I wholeheartedly agree with Tim that Karl should be handling this, I would be remiss if I didn't admit that I would be making multiple phone calls per day to Predator asking for information on my defective product. That's just me... I can't stand to sit around and let things that I'm trying to accomplish get pushed aside when there is no reason to believe they should be.

I also have to admit, that I'd be very tempted to have had my attorney send a registered/certified letter to Stiller by now, letting them know that lack of communication may result in legal action - if for no other reason than to provoke communication.

xverminator - best of luck in getting satisfaction here ... I sincerely hope it all works out for you in a timely manner from here on forward.

I saw a Group Buy going on at Snipers Hide for these actions and was considering it, glad I didn't. Hope it all works out o.k. for you xverminator.

I can only wonder what the crowd would be saying if this happened to dogcatcher223?





I am kind of surprised it didn't!

Attorney's never even crossed my mind and never will...$750 isn't worth the aggrevation. I've done business with Mr. Stiller several times before so I know neither him or Curtis are prompt about returning calls. All other experiences have been good!

No doubt they are very busy men but not returning phone calls and holding a paid for action for two months is a good way to get un-busy real quick. Again I'm not angry about the action being out spec. because I know weird [bleep] happens but a lack of communication is unacceptable to me.

If BossHoss or anyone else that know Mr. Stiller well enough to have his cell or home number, please have him call either Karl or myself........

Thanks for the encouragement guys I really appreciate it..I'm sure things will work out!!


X-VERMINATOR

Way to keep a great and understanding attitude.

Haha, I definitely won't be buying one after reading this. If it happened to me, I would get accused of being a liar and lousy hunter!

Just that it happens to you weekly......

xv...man that sucks, sorry it's taking so long, I know how bad you've been looking forward to that 257 Roy!

Ugh....hope it gets resolved soon.

J

Doesn't help when you keep posting pictures of yours.......dick! BTW, still have'nt heard a peep from Jerry or Curtis.


X-VERMINATOR

I hope this gets straightened out for ya, I hate hearing about this kind of stuff...

I called them on Weds or Thurs of last week to ask a question and Jerry's partner answered the phone on the second ring and was very candid with me. If you haven't heard anything in this long, there is obviously something going on that you are not privy to yet.

I would probably call myself and ask WTF!!!

usually when Jerry gets wind of something on here he posts under the name "stiller", I thought I would have seen him here by now

Just to share an experience, in 2000, I had my last custom built (I hope. The process for me is to buy one piece at a time and put it in the gun case until I have everything and find a gunsmith to put it together. For this one, I went with Nesika Bay. The salesman said things were a little slow, and it'd only take a month or two. I thought that would be nice I could use the rifle that season. It took about ten months. I talked to a bunch of gunsmiths including Mickey Coleman (do I regret not going with him today) and sent off the gun to Boatwrite custom guns in Gassville Arkansas. When the rifle came back, every third shot wouldn't fire and I was spraying bullets in about a 2" group at a hundred. I looked up a local gunsmith I hadn't seen in ten years (heard a rumor he was making motorcycle parts) and brought him the rifle. He found the firing pin protrusion was not enough, and the spring in the action was too soft. For $100, he saved that season. I called Nesika, and they said I was full of it. The actions are measured, then again then again... Precision incarnated. For $1200, and almost a year wait I was not happy and it will be the only Nesika in my safe. Dakota owns them now anyway.

As to the group, I asked them to cut the chamber tight, but not neck turning tight. They didn't and to salvage my Lilja barrel that I also waited several months for, my gunsmith suggested buying Redding dies, and using the biggest neck bushing in the size die that would still hold a bullet and very little crimp. I got the rifle down to an inch. After a ton of research, I found that a gunsmith can blueprint a Remington action and it would be every bit as good for about $250. One of my friends wants a rifle built and I'm leading him this way. I wish I got a chance to do some reading here on the campfire before I made that decision. Good Luck

Ditto. If they put you @ the back of the line for a replacement action then two months is probably not out of line. However, the lack of communicaton would be frustrating to me also.

The only problem with "blueprinting" a 700 is that it will probably have to have the major thread diameter increased when the threads are re-cut, this will pretty much make your barrel a one-of-a-kind when it comes to threads. As long as you never rebarrel it, I guess this is fine.

I know Greg Tannel used a ramp-thread type thread pitch which pretty much means I have to send it back to him for any problems.

I have about $500 into the action which I already owned, and the rifle is hard pressed to shoot under an inch right now. I don't expect Mountain rifles to shoot as well as a heavier rig but for this much customizing it should be better. I have no idea what the problem is. I have seemingly tried everything. I will go with a custom action next time myself.

Well just got home and checked e-mail...Apparently Jerry got the message. He and Karl got in touch today and a new action has been Fed-Ex'd. I still have no idea what the hold up was but I got a new action coming right away.

Maybe Jerry will post as to how or why the action was out of spec. The rest as far as I'm concerned is "Water Under the Bridge".

Now all I got to do is get Karl to hurry! (grin)


X-VERMINATOR

That is great news. Bet you'll sleep good tonight!

Glad it all came together for you.

Let us know about the action problem when you find out.

Talk about all hell braking loose. When Karl called and send it back I looked at it and it had the issue. I had no other actions on the shelf and told him it would be 4 to 6 weeks. He seemed happy with that. That was on August 1 that he shipped it according to the postmark and I got it on Aug 4th. We got new bolts from our supplier and put them into bodies as soon as we could. Curtis went hunting for a week and was out of the shop. I was out a few days week before last. I took a message off the machine and called Karl without answer week before last and probably didnt get back to calling again. I did not get an email or I probably would have replied to that. I shipped the replacement back to him on 9/24. That was about 6 weeks from when I received the action back. He didnt go to the back of the list or any such thing.

Unfortunately, I dont have these things stacked up waiting for buyers. I really tried my best to remedy a bad situation and thought I did ok. It really saddens me to think that some of you guys are readly to sue me or send attornys my way to pressure me into getting an action out. I value each and every transaction and customer and appreciate the business. I try my best under the circumstances to get out the products. If there was 30 hours in a day versus 24, I guarantee I would be working the other 6 on top of the 12 I already am. I know these parts are your babies, but damn, its not like its a kidney or something. We do our best and that is about all I can say. Sorry about my rambling. If the level of service that we try to give isnt sufficient, then hopefully someone else can live up to the expectations.

Jerry, just wondering if you are making a left handed action for the 223 yet? If so, you can PM me the details if you would. Thanks

We are making the first set of lefties now, no 223 in it. probably next batch can get one. 2 to 3 months or so. let me know

Jerry ...

Communication is the key, to end all this kind of stuff. If you told Karl it would be 4-6 weeks, and he never told his client, or forgot that you said that, then Karl is as much wrong as anyone in this situation.

But, that's a piece of info that none of us had ... In fact, xverminator said that he was in contact with Karl, and that both he and Karl were trying to get in touch with you to no avail.

In any event, I'll typically go to great lengths to get someone to respond to me, if I feel they owe me something ... and if that means using an attorney to send a letter, then so be it. Doing that, versus suing, are two completely different things. Please don't lump me into a category of people that would pursue legal action for not answering the phone or emails (in a case like this) ...


I'm glad you finally chimed in, and that the situation has been taken care of ... I'm eager to find out how xverminator feels about the result of all this ...

Jerry,

Have you determined this to be an isolated issue or a batch problem?

It seems to be isolated to a few actions that we have here. We burn 3 at a time and there must have been a power failure between the rough and finish burn. I dont know for sure, but that seems to be the problem. We have the 3 serial numbers in that run here and they vary a little, but are a little larger than spec. In all reality, I doubt that the actions would have shot any differently accuracy wise. Bolt clearance seems to be a somewhat over-rated thing given the tests that we have run here. Mostly, it seems to be a marketing plus. We run our BR actions at .001 to .002 clearance. Predators started at .003 to .004 and were too tight for their intended uses. .004 to .006 is probably the right numbers to use for the uses they are made for, especially the tactical guys that really use their guns in the dirt. I have taken a single gun and swapped in bolts that had .001 to .010 clearance and didnt really see any difference in group sizes in a BR type of caliber. I have also found the bigger bolts in the 338 actions need a little more clearance to work smoothly. It is a tradeoff of tightness versus smooth and easy action of the bolt and grit causing issues. It has always appeared to us that if the lugs were lapped and touching, the face was straight and perpendicular to the bore, the clearance was not as big an issue.

A few customers that are cerakoting the actions want more clearance, like .010. The coating then takes it to .006 to .008. One guy in particualar builds bunches of lightweight guns with this setup. Those actions are really cut away a lot also. With larger caliber guns, he is consistently getting 3/8 moa accuracy with them. I really dont know what more a guy could ask for than that.

Having been in touch with Karl almost continuously on this issue, I was told by him that Jerry had not returned a single phone call since they had their first discussion and the decision was made to send the action back to Stiller.. As far as the six weeks goes, (didn't take that long to get it the first time) I got no indication from Karl that Jerry had even identified the problem let alone given an expected time for re shipment.

According to Karl he did not here a peep from anyone at Stiller Precision after the action was sent back. Now I'm not about to take sides and call either man a liar but one or the other is full of it....

All I know is that I personaly called Stiller Precsion twice and twice left a message with no call back. As I stated earlier most of this is water under the bridge because I've got a new action coming. However, my business will from here on out go to Borden for a Timberline/Alpine's based on the communication I've gotten from Jerry and Curtis...... Can't speak for Karl.


X-VERMINATOR

I did talk with Karl after the returned action and informed him it would be 4 to 6 weeks. I did not continue to call him with updates as nothing had changed, but we did talk to him after the initial return. He left one message a few weeks ago that I tried to call back on once and didnt get an answer. I dont remember the messages from you, but maybe Curtis pulled the message and tried back when you were not available. I just dont know what else to tell you. As far as delivery times and service go, we have been told we are better then most. I wish you the best of luck with your next purchase from our competitors. My understanding is the delivery times etc are much more underestimated and longer then ours. Once again, sorry about the issues and any bad will you may have. I guess no matter what we do, someone will not be happy. Just part of the business I guess.

I was told nothing. A call did not take place after Stiller received the action. We had a conversation before the action shipped back where Stiller asked me to double check the specs, and doubted if I could take accurate measurements using a telescoping gauge and micrometer, a very common practice for measuring the ID of bores, such as the bolt bore raceway. He said he could not give me a turnaround time, and said he'd look at the action when it arrived. I had no idea if the action would be replaced or be told that I couldn't measure or what, but I did kind of expect some kind of respoce once he received the action. I did not hear from Stiller after the action arrived saying that it had the issue and that a replacement would be sent in 4-6 week. I did not hear a single word from Stiller for six weeks when he said the replacement was being sent out.


I have caller ID and voicemail. No ID showed a call from Stiller, and a voicemail was certainly not left. I work in my home, usually spending 14 hours a day down in the shop, seven days a week. Even when not in the shop, it's the same phone so I or my wife are almost always available to answer it or give a call right back. I might leave the house once a week on a Saturday or Sunday for a few hours, but that's it. I did not have any indication of a call, and email should not have been necessary. As you can see from one of my emails, another customer of mine was emailing him for some time with no responce until just this week.

When someone on the forum asks for recommendations for a custom gunsmith, I am not offended when one person says Kampfeld, and the next ten post make recommendations for someone else. Apparently this is not the case when I honestly and with no agenda or malice recommend one action over another. My only agenda in the matter is to end up with a happy customer, and keep the reputation of my integrity intact.

I hate posting this. Stiller is well respected, and I'm still a just a newbie. Who's going to believe me? The last thing I want is to get into a fight, especially on a public forum! I just want to build rifles that make people happy, and support my one year old son, wife, and daughter on the way. I can't do that when someone is attacking my integrity, and in turn my livelihood, so I must respond.

I have nothing against Jerry. Wish he had returned my call, but it worked out in the end. I personally didn't have a problem with the waiting, but my customer was understandably frusterated. I did not prompt or suggest this new thread's creation. It was created due to the frustration and dissatisfaction of the customer due to lack of contact. I don't know what my purpose would be in telling my customer that I had not heard from Jerry if I had.

Below are the emails I sent to my customer concerning the action after it was sent back. I suppose I'll have to trust you guys to take my word that the emails are unaltered.

----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Feldkamp
To: xverminator

Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: 257 WBY
Hello,

I talked to Mr. Stiller Wednesday. Before sending it back to him, he asked if I would put the bolt in the action and check it with an indicator to see how much the bolt moved in the action, as he thought it was very difficult to measure the raceway in the action with a telescoping gauge like I had used. This I did, and found that the bolt moved .010 - .012, so I shipped the action to Stiller on Wednesday. I asked Jerry if they had a tolerance on bolt face squareness, and he said they didn't, but thought that anything up to .001 was acceptable. He said he couldn't give me a turnaround time, so I'm not sure when to expect it ( or a replacement) back. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks,

Karl


----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Feldkamp
To: xverminator
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: 257 WBY

Hello Adam,

I haven't heard a word from Mr.Stiller since I sent it out. I kind of expected him to call and say, "Yeah, it was messed up." or "You don't know what you're talking about." or something, but I haven't heard a word. It's definitely making the October date harder to hit. I'll see if I can't get a hold of him tomorrow.

Thanks,

Karl


----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Feldkamp
To: xverminator
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 257 WBY


Adam,

I called Jerry Thursday and left a message. So far, I haven't heard back from him.

Thanks,

Karl

----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Feldkamp
To: xverminator
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: 257 WBY


Hello Adam,

I haven't heard a peep from Stiller either. I have a customer in Brazil that's having trouble getting a hold of him as well for his projects. He hasn't returned emails from him since the end of August.

Karl


----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Feldkamp
To: xverminator
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: Contact!

Hello Adam,

I finally talked to Jerry today. He said that he just shipped out a new action via FedEx, so I'll let you know when I get it.

Thanks,

Karl

Well someone appears to be lying....

I know one thing is for sure I called Karl multiple times during my rifle build he just completed and he answered every call with the exception of one and I received a call back in minutes. Not hard for me to figure where the problem in communication falls.

I really have no reply other than this. I talked with him initially and my reply here was the way I remember it was discussed. A few weeks ago I called back to a phone message left with no answer, maybe from my cell. Didnt leave a message as no machine answered. Maybe he was on the phone. Didnt try again. Had probably 20 messages to call back that day and did the best I could at reaching them all. Shipped back the new action which was delivered on 9/27 according to fedex on tracking #545471910005924. I never received an email from either Adam or Karl though asking for status on this. (FYI, that is probably the best way to get an answer from me as I can reply to them at night after 10 when I get back in my office)

Karl seems like a very knowledgable smith based on the phone conversations I had with him. He seems to know his stuff. He says he was a newbie, thats good. We need all the good smiths we can get. I turn down at least 5 builds a week and endless barrel jobs due to not having enough time to build them on top of the actions at this time. Hopefully Karl and any others will help fill this void.

Lets leave it at this.

I am at fault. I built an action with an issue. Took 6 weeks to replace it. Didnt converse with my customer enough. Seemingly got into a pissing contest and now we probably both look like liars. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. I am off to solder on bolt handles for the next batch.

Karl,

Is your Brazil customer named Campos? Are you building the guns? If so, is the FFL going to be you or Natinal Gun?

Hello Mr.Stiller, is Mr. Campos speaking.
I would not like to highjack this thread as I am only an observer...

Yes, Karl will build the rifles for me. And the FFL will be Mr. Jack Gonzales, at National Guns (Florida), who will do the export.

I will wait your email tolding me when the actions are ready (hopefully next week as you told me) and will contact Mr. Jack Gonzales (National Gun) to "buy" the actions from you and have them sent to Karl.

Any doubt, please do not hesitate to contact me.

I am very excited about my first custom rifle and I am sure it will be everything I expect, from the components (Stiller action, Krieger barrel etc) and the work (Mr. Feldkamp).

They will be late this week or early the week after. Thanks

Wow, sorry to see the dissention of the troops here. I don't have a clue what transpired here, but I can vouch for Karl either picking up the phone directly or promptly returuning every call I've made to him.......

He's not the type that leave loose ends untied........

Sounds like Mr. Stiller is doing a stand up job of owning the fact that communication could have been better. And Karl has a well deserved reputation as a straight shooter (as are his guns.)

These "he said, they said" post mortems never bear much fruit. I would be pleased to own one of Mr. Stiller's actions, and I know I will be sending Karl more work in the future. I have every confidence that they care about my business, but are also human.

Move along folks, the party's over.

Well said!

+1

I can vouch for that! Everytime I call Karl he is working, and still takes time to talk to me.

Not one single communication problem from Karl on my end either...Just wish he wasn't so damn busy !


X-VERMINATOR

I know that I've surely been pleased with the service and performance of the Predator actions I've built on. Sometimes you can't believe how things can turn to crap when I'm busting my butt to get it all together. The ways it can happen are beyond counting, I think. Anyway, I'm a customer and fan of Predator actions and Stiller Precision and I've sold a few actions for them. I think I'll stay for awhile.

I ordered one but never heard back. Not accepting a deposit was a clue in the beginning. I'm not going to beg to buy it.

Well dont get all excited about a timberline either.
over a year for me and no word.
Well he did call me in june and tell me he was almost done....
if he ever bothers to send it to me.Im going to turn around and order another.Only next time I wont pay for it untill its ready to ship.
dave

My next action just may be a Stiller.

rb

That's what I thought too!

"All's well that ends well."

I would buy a new action from Jerry Stiller after reading this . I was worried that this would be just another "trial by internet" and I am quite impressed by the way this whole situation was handled by all concerned.

Glenn

Anybody can have a 'glitch' in their system at times. I read a post by somebody who talked to me (can't remember just who it was) but he went with another smith and said that he had problems and regretted not going with me. Let me assure you that I can fumble the ball just as easily as the other guy did.

I'm sure that most of us who do gun work on this forum strive to turn out perfection with every build but sometimes it just doesn't happen. I had one guy complain about me leaving some bedding compound in the vent hole on the side of the action. Of course, he never mentioned it until I finally wrote him to ask if he ever intended to pay me the balance he owed.

I've forgotten to put the ejectors back in bolts, forgot to inscribe caliber on barrels and other things. It's just gonna happen but when I goof I pay shipping back to me and do whatever it takes to make things right. Most customers are pretty understanding but some have jumped down my throat. I just eat my crow, raw if I have to, and keep on truckin'. If I develop saddle sores from being ridden too roughly I just smile and when I'm finished I have my own list that I keep. There aren't many names on it but it is not empty by any means. There's never a need to be rude and crude. Give the guy a chance to make things right but don't start beating him over the head with a lawyer.

just for clarity, I think I was the one that suggested sending a letter from an attorney ...

but understand, that was due to xverminator's story that he couldn't even make contact with Jerry ... and Karl echoed that he couldn't get any contact with him either... I just figured that a letter from an attorney would get his attention ... I never advocated starting a lawsuit over something like this ...

anway, I too agree that alls well that ends well, and this situation actually got taken care of rather nicely ... good on everyone ...

what is BXROADS real name. I may have you on the list. How was it ordered, by email or phone. I have just finished a batch this week and will be calling loads of people from as far back as May. How is not accepting a deposit a problem. I dont want to be accused of using someones money.

Maybe I'll get a call. I am pretty sure I am on the list. PM incoming.
Dave

Its ready. Curtis may have tried to call you, maybe not. The timney triggers are on the way.

We are currently finishing a huge batch. There are a bunch of all configs ready for people that have ordered since late april and may. We are trying to call all the customers over the next week or so. If you ordered one, call us and we can get it finished up. Mon, Wed and Fri are best for checking on orders by phone BUT email anytime is probably a better bet. If you are not replied to in a day or two, follow up with a call. I am sorry, but I am getting 100 or so emails a day and probably 40 phone calls. IF there is no answer or machine, we are on the phone so call back.

May I email you Mr. Stiller to know if my actions are ready?

(I have a question on the Predator base: could you make one with 4 inches more on the front - kind of an extended foward picatinny base? )

Luis, they will be ready this weekend. I can ship next week. I need to get the payment and FFL faxed to me. I cannot make the special base.

Clint Smith
Ordered by phone in March I think, could have been April. Not that its been an overly long wait but I was told it would be much shorter.

As far as the deposit goes, I regret I used it in a negative context. You are doing the customer a favor by not requiring a deposit. The point I was trying to convey was that I did not have a warm fuzzy feeling that I was on the list from the second I hung up the phone. Combine that with the fact that we've exceeded the time period I was told to expect it (by several months) and I just assumed I never made the list. I probably should have called and might could be accused of "piling on" with the above post. For that I apologize.

Answer the phone or return calls and you will be golden!!!.Your product sells itself but only if you and Curtis are there to back the product! In the business world, if a product has a problem, it is not the previous track record of the product that determines the outcome but the service after the fact.............

This is true wether it's the drive through at McDonalds or a $750 custom action.... Food for thought(pun intended)!

X-VERMINATOR

Clint, I do have the order. It was for a 308 Tac 30 and a 20 moa rail ordered on 4/23. If you still want it, I will have one next week. If not, let me know and the next guy on the list can get it.

Xverminator, I have heard and reheard your point. I understand. We are doing the best we can right now. Curtis and I talk on the phone all damn day. If it rings, we answer it, 8 am till 10 pm most times. If a message is left at lunch or when I am not here in the eves I try to call it back in a few days. Sometimes it does not happen. I AM SORRY. I hope things will get better with the more help I am hiring. I am busy 14+ hours per day, 7 days a week at this point. Everything gets its priority as the criticality moves up. I understand it is not optimal. You have a loc of "Edge of hell" on your posts. You must live next door to me as of late it is right here with all the crap we have to do. At this point, please just let it go. Thank you. Stiller

Not trying to bust your balls....I'm super easy going, but I am surely trying to help! Seems as if you guys are finding the right track!! This thread is yours my friend...........




X-VERMINATOR

Mr. Stiller, email sent to you.

LRCampos....talk to Glen Seekins, seekinsprecision.com, he would most likely make your special base for you.

J

Thank you jason, I just sent him an email!

all I can tell from reading this thread is


gunsmiths are human


stuff falls thru the cracks sometimes, if it's once in a blue moon can't see how it's a problem, if it's SOP that's a problem

business is dealing with problems, there are just as many problems caused by a successful biz as an unsuccessful one, and while the success ones are better to deal with in the big picture, they are still a problem when they're in process


Coleman, Kampfield and Stiller could all give lessons in standing up and being honest with folks, refreshing thing to see with business owners! ain't no ENRON in any of them that I can tell.


last thing I picked up from this thread, the campfire is still a cool place to hang out with lotsa good folks participating, even if we do get antsy with our rifles. don't know about you boys, but 20 years ago I'd have been lucky to find out about any of these guys.

Freaking internet is amazing, like fire, great tool but it can easily cause big problems too

IMO everyone came out looking good and at one point in this thread I didn't see how that would be possible. Kudos gentlemen, kudos

You'll be pleased with it.

stiller or anyone, how do you get the black bolt option instead of the grey.

I am pleased with the rifle Mickey built on a Predator

Tim in TN, I think the black oxide finish bolt is an option for the Tac action line. All the Predators are Armaloy (grey) finish.

At Stiller site, is said that the black oxide finish of the bolt is not so durable as the armaloy finish.

Thanks, I had seen Tac actions with both colors and just wondered how it worked.

The black bolt really isnt a very good option. It comes off pretty easy and will rust through. We really dont like to do them.

Can someone or Jerry, give me an email or phone number to Stiller. I can't find my note and can't access his website at work.
Dave

Stiller - 972-429-5000

or..... [email protected]

Thanks Jason. I think another 270wby is in the works. If I can swap Jerry for a magnum.
Lilja #2 at 25". Sako Hunter inlet for Rem/Predator.