Specs
*Remington 700 Action Trued by Kampfeld
*26" Lilja Stainless Contour 6, Spiral Fluted by Kampfeld
*Floorboard Crown
*8/40 Screws
*Campfire Custom Knob
*Tan & Black Cerakote by Kampfeld
*Ti Fluted Bolt
*HS Stock Refinished by Kampfeld
*Kampfeld Custom Heavy Recoil Lug, Double Pinned
*Will be topped with Swaro 4x16x50 and Talley Rings, when gun arrives

WOW, congrads and enjoy.

Very nice, although I don't get the big bolt handle idea.

How heavy?

Not sure yet he is shipping tomorrow and will have different scope, but it won't be light.

Ab it is not as big as you think. Just enough to make a Remington work alot better.


Nice rifle Scott

Thanks bp

Very nice. You should be a happy man.

No doubt he does great work.

Very nice - great color combo on that rifle. That Karl does some fantastic work. I'm still at least 6 months from being finished I think, he is working on one for me and so far has the action, so a ways to go.
If it turns out half as nice as this one well I'd be plenty happy!!! Congrats on a fine new rifle.

Thank you Oregon, you will be pleased His work is incredible.

Dang, that'll make the vermin sick.

Looks like some influence from the Roy that dvdegeorge had put together?

Nope just like my 300 win with tan instead of green
thanks Skane

I'd like that build in a 6.5x47. Very nice. My bud runs 2 swifts and they are goo flingers for sure.

Nice!! Hard to beat a Kampfeld, Im sure it will shoot tiny litle groups.

Congrats!

Very nice. KC sure knows how to trick out a 700.

Thanks, can't wait to get my next one

I still haven't warmed up to the large knob, but it's a great looking gun nevertheless. Wish it was in my safe...

That's a GREAT looking rig and one I'd clearly be proud to own. Like the blueprint. Enjoy it!

Thanks going to range with Karnis this weekend will have report then.

Skane how is the hunting going this year?

Twist? How's she throated?...............

Bad Ass!!! Karl does awesome work - wish he wasn't so busy!!

Thanks took about 14 months, sending him another as soon as this one arrives.

I thought he wasn't taking any new work???

Twist? Throating?.................

1/14 twist

Bummer..........

bummer for you I didn't build it for heavy bullets if you want that build one yourself. What an azz hat!

Ignorance is bliss.

Quantified in conjunction with not knowing the throat geometry.

Curious way to build a rifle..................

Dude if you don't like the Rifle then stfu, not ur rifle.

Tears will only make your Mascara run.

Chock it up to a lesson and maybe next time you'll come closer to ringing the bell.

Unless it's a 1-16" 300Wby..............

Class act, no doubt!

Nope my 300 win is 1/10 but thanks for ur valuable input. Lmfao

Someone with a 1-10" Winny,should be able to extrapolate the humor associated with a 1-14" Swift.

Sinking in,ain't it.................

BMD;

I'll ask it straight up: why the 1-14" twist? The rifle itself looks simply bad ass. But, I can't understand the 14" twist at all.

Here's the web site in case anybody is interested:

http://www.kampfeldcustom.com/

Impressive!

Karl does very nice work.

Even if it involves the most capacious .224 SAAMI offering,wearing a pedestrian twist rate. Akin to a 30-378Wby wearing a 1-17" twist tube.

More opportunity is left on the table,than that which is inherent the platform.

Shame...............

Thanks for your concern

I have no dog in this fight, BUT just like BMD stated, it's not your rifle palewhite, so move on!!!

It's all right 300 no sweat, I like it, and it will more than do what I built it for.

Looks good! Hope to be back down to see it for youth weekend. Been crappy weather up here in WI, but still beats workin'!

I am sure he will build the rifle any way YOU want it if YOU will pay for it! Untill then why dont you just let the man build the gun the way he sees fit without your keyboard criticism!!

Nice rifle BMD!

Good deal BMD!!

I'm all ears in the "merits" associated with specifying a 1-14" Swift in this day and age,especially when frosted with a blatant disregard in the throat geometry of same.

Do tell.................

I don't owe you any explanation, it is what Karl and I decided was best for what I wanted period. No further discussion necessary.

That's a very nice looking rifle Scott.

I didn't infer the information as being an outstanding debt and the only reason it's a "secret" is because you've zero clue.

Curious way to build a rifle................

palewhite,

Time to go to another thread or site. We are all on here to share our experiences with others and learn some things too. NOT to bash someones rifle, hunting techniques, or gear preferences.

Why come on here and act like a douche-bag?? He built HIS rifle HIS way & that's good enough for 99.9% of us!!

Thanks waterbug.

Thanks 300.

Asking fair questions,is now douche-baggery?

Always humorous,when those with the least clues,feel compelled to expound upon same.

Now what will happen,is that the next guy will see the light and get a lot more bang for his buck and the more you bitch and moan,bumping this to the top...the more apt that will be realized in the short term.

Perhaps you are a "benefit".................

Yep that is for sure see u there, Kacee is pumped.

VERY FINE LOOKING RIFLE AND SINCE KARL BUILT IT,I'M SURE IT'S A SHOOTER.Skeeter

I think what people are going to see and realize is that you are jealous!

Thanks critter

JUSTINB,

Noone has yet to accuse you of being bright. I've a fair number of 1-14" Swifts. Here's one for you to dream about.



Much prefer that case capacity ala the 22-250AI,for COAL latitude,which is another copious scoop of something you don't understand.

Lilja 1-8" 3-groove and Kreiger 1-7.7"



I concede to having a 1-9" Hart too.



I've the luxury of not being forced to guess and I reckon that will trouble you too.......................

Hmmm wondering where you got the inspiration....
Remington 700 action trued
#3 contour stainless 1:10 Rock barrel fluted by Rock (finished at 25")
McMillan Edge Classic BDL
Bolt Ti Fluted
Campfire Bolt Knob
Cerakoted...Matte Black and a mix of Federal Brown,Coyote Tan and OD Stock Cerakoted same color with black webbing
Weight scoped 7.38 lbs

Same as my 300 Kampfeld and now I have matching pair one green one tan sorry DVD didn't get idea from yours it is a copy of mine in tan instead of green.

Dvd that is a sweet rig.

Been on this site as a lurker for 2+ years and this thread prompted me to register.

Well, hey, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I agree with the merits of PaleWhiteCracker's question on the reason for the 1X14 twist, and that he was treated rudely.

So I will answer the question re why the 1X14 twist: as the owner apparently wants to shoot light[er] weight bullets, and gee, that isn't so tough to answer, it's not like admitting to being a pornographer or something worse, is it...BMD?

Personally, I don't care at all for the looks of these two Kampfeld rifles [Mr. K is just building what the customer wants, so no reflection on Mr.K, his tastes, or his skills...]. These two K rifles are gaudy, and the names engraved ON SAME are not something I would be caught dead with by another hunter.

Spiral barrel flutes?? Unless proven to shoot one-hole groups at 500 yards...NO WAY and GIVE ME BREAK! Why not put the money into a silencer (if their legal in your neck of the woods), or a new camera, or a diamond necklace for the wife?

But hey, they're your rifles now...

(How is that for a warm and snuggly rookie user's first post?)

Heck everyone can build one.....Keep Karl busy and rolling in dough....best part is it shoots even better than it looks,Karl does great work!

Love ya man....grinnin

Heck you'd love my ride then 1970 El Camino,hydraulic shocks with red fur on the dash and black dingle balls around the roof liner

Buckeye thanks for ur input , thought That was obvious and said that early on in this train wreck and hope wife doesn't see the post about the necklace . Glad to see the gang from as real as it gets care enough to come out and bash my new rifle, please carry on.

I'd love to see it DVD.

Cool looking rifle, love both yours and DVD's 257.

What bullet you going to run in your Swift, 50? Got any pics of your green 300 while you're at it?

See, this is a good looking rifle. A pig, but a nice rifle nonetheless.

All this poor sucker had was a McMillan return stock and some other spare parts...

53 tsx in the swift will put up some of the 300 too.

Yeah, no, you're right. Helluva cartridge!

Here are pictures of the Kampfeld Custom 300 Win Mag.

Middle pic is in the Mcmillan after stock change.

Nice. I recall that rifle now that you posted it. Both look very sweet. Using that 53 TSX on deer, I presume? It ought to knock the snot out of them pretty good.

I will prolly never shoot a deer with it, just varmints and I am betting it runs a tsx thru a hog's head pretty frequently.

I'd opt for the 45gr TSX with that twist JMO

May try that too, will see at the range.

buckeye,no one gives a [bleep] what you say or think about his rifle.Sounds to me like a jealous sob.I hope you noticed the small letters,that's how informative and important your input is.

1-10" 300WSM. Much to be said for actually using a rifle too.





1-10" 300Super



The 1-7.7" 22-250 AI.



The usual..............

You seemingly care a great deal and happen to whine wonderfully.

Congratulations?.....................

I will say that last picture is about as good as it gets...

Better than that.

Easily one of the greatest days I've ever had afield. Am less than 2wks away from trying to comnnect similar dots for him and I imagine he'll be wanting to pinch the same rifle.

The video is pretty slick too,as he made a very good poke,with a 75gr Scirocco II at 3450fps muzzle velocity.

More stuff that a 1-14" Swift can't even begin to fathom...........

Does the guy in the last photo have a leather armguard on for a recurve? Or what exactly is that?

Awesome pic, that's for sure.

You are obviously in love with yourself!

If you want to show off YOUR GUNS then get YOUR OWN THREAD!!!

Nice rifle, I'd even hunt deer myself in a second with a fast 22, and copper boolits

Getcha some of this.

Karnis I am laughing my ass off.

Pops dearly wanted to slam a Buck with his longbow,so was always attired to do just that. Good Bucks are fickle and those stars didn't align(mainly because I was spread thin,with others in the party),so I handed him my 22-250AI after glassing him up a rather nice specimen.

I didn't catch any hint of regret.........................

JUSTIN',

I suggest 2 Midol and 10cc's of Vagisil(in no particular order),to satiate your woe(s).

Perhaps consider holding your breath until you turn blue...then continue to talk copiously out your ass,about those things you know nothing about..................

I aint the one claiming to know everything!

But your childish insults reveal the true character of the person posting them! Congrats!!

Please copy/paste where I mentioned even in passing,that "I knew everything".

I'm at ease in discussion regarding things I am steeped in(this is squarely one of that great multitude) and have zero qualm scrolling past those things that are either Greek or of zero interest to me.

You whine well.......................

Which "things" would that be........Midol and Vagisil????

Oh.....and once again BMD...thats I very fine rifle!

I am done messing with the clown now! Have fun with yourself Cracker!

Just saw this thread.

First off, nice looking rifle.

Second, go back to the beginning and look at the progression. One man says he doesn't like the bolt handle and it is left go. Another says bummer-no more-about the twist and he is immediately called an azzhat.

Now tell me who started throwing ....

One thing the fire has taught me is that I know little about the the "workings" of the rifle/bullet marriage. If I have any questions, I think I will look North for answers.

Increased Estrogen levels,notoriously incite mood swings.

Just don't ask her for a pic of her Swift..............

Batt may have been quick on the azzhat, but the rifle was built for light weight bullets and I did look north on the twist straight to Karl himself, I have zero use for heavier bullets in the swift. (as it turned out I was spot on With the azzhat comment as this thread has shown).

+1

First off, that is one good looking rifle!!! Karl does awesome work. And, I personally like everything you had done with the build. If I was having Karl build me one, it would look like yours, to and including the barrel twist.

Thanks DMB.

BDM,
Thats a great looking rig.
Im not a fan of the 220 Swift for the simple reason of the extra trimming they require.But performance wise,they kick azz.Of that,I have seen plenty first hand.I like a slow twisted high capacity 22 for soybean field work on woodchucks.
Alot more effective than coughing out big heavy for caliber turds that have more arc to the target.
I wouldn't not worrie about littlestick.
You did good.
dave

That doesn't pass scrutiny.

Compare a 50gr VMax at 4000 fps, to a 75gr AMax at 3400 fps.

At 600 yards, the 50gr VMax has a max ord of 19.8" at 341 yards.
At 600 yards, the 75gr AMax has a max ord of 19.4" at 326 yards.

To 600 yards or so the trajectories are rather similar, but the 75 is already way ahead in defeating wind, and retaining energy. Past 600 yards, the 75 smokes the 50 like a cheap cigar.

You might also note that past about 300 yards, the 75 is going faster than the 50.

MV is a fleeting thing, but BC is forever.

MM,
It does look good on paper.But Ill still take the light stuff under 500.I have always found lighter stuff quicker to tune.
If you really want to go beyond 500.Im thinking a bigger gun is a better bet.
But thats just me.
dave

Same principle applies no matter the caliber.....

By the way great looking rifle.

Looks better in real life than paper.

Twisting for the heavies opens doors to more versatility without closing any.

More RPMs on the light bullets only increases the goo factor, and reduces ricochet possibilities.

Not a door opened i need I ain't selling it and it is my rifle and I really don't give a [bleep] what anyone else thinks build your own and run the heavys, I really don't give a [bleep]. Thought some of the guys would like to see another Kampfeld rifle, not have a five page discussion over the [bleep] twist.

BMD,

F it buddy!! If you are happy, then don't worry what anyone else thinks, says, posts or whatever. I think you have a damn nice rifle built from a guy that knows how to build 'em.

Now go shoot something!!!

Take care,
300

Thanks 3 just Got tired of reAding the bs.

Does someone need a tissue for their hurt fealers? laughin

Jess

Wondering who pulled your string another gay azz post, Karnis hit the nail on the head.

No, this is a gay azz post! Crying on an internet forum... Priceless!!!

You are in so far over your head,someone needs to pump daylight to you.

Very humorous that you are fighting tooth and nail to cover your tracks,in regards to something which you've zero comprehension about. Gotta be painful to remain silent in regards to a blueprint that used all of your processing powers,yet you've nary a clue in regards to it's throating arrangement and it's YOUR rifle.

Suck it up,wipe away those tears,open your ears and there's a glimmer of hope you'll learn more than a little(I suggest you take notes).

Increased RPM has no ill affects on the bullets you cite,yet will enhance terminal affects on scene,as an absolute minimum. With a modest thunk in the direction of throating,some very nice windows of opportunity slam open and are eager to impress.

The Swift is a compromise to the 22-250AI,when talking longrange fun in a repeater...but purposely paying to hamstring it out of the gate with a 14",is akin to buying a new truck and specifying you want every other cylinder cemented off.

Very funny,that you aren't even playing dumb and that it's inherent................

Suit yourself. Just tryin' to open your eyes a little.

Oh it's purty, a hell of a barbeque rifle for sure.

A fast-twisted .223 will smoke it at any kind of distance though.

Oh great...steal my thunder.

(Sulking away to chow,deeply saddened)...................

Cat got her tongue.................

BMD,

Nice rifle ! You got it the way you wanted it.Your the one paying for it!
If your happy that's all that matters.

You will never make everyone happy,for sure not here !

Tim

I've not built a rifle before. When I do it will most likely be a .223AI or a 22-250AI. I've always planned on using a fast twist as I've had good luck with them in factory jobs.

But what does a guy do in terms of the throat to be able to use a broad range of bullets? If you have it throated to shoot the long heavies, does it typically shoot the itty-bitty's like schit?

Travis

i don't know the freebore number, but i have two .223 AI rifles that will kiss at 2.45" ish with the 75 A-max, and they also take the 52-55 grain bullets to the lands with plenty of neck. the mag box needs "fixed" to run these, but that is as easy as removing the filler at the rear of the box and installing a .3" or so filler instead.

even my 1-7" Hart barreled rifle will shoot the 55 NBT and the likes very nicely. like clay pegeions at 550 yards. but with the 75 A-max, i can hit the broken peices of said clays at that distance.

my 1-8" Brux barreled .223 AI is better on all accounts. i just mention the 7" twist to show the faster twist is not too much a concession.

Thanks toad. Appreciate it.


Travis

BMD,
While your rifle is not exactly my taste, I do have a lot of appreciation for it. But that is not my point. You built a great rifle exactly to your specs to suit your desires. If the few trolls who keep pulling their own chain cant appreciate that they can get bent.

In the end you have exactly what you want and they are still on the sidelines.

I am looking forward to hearing range reports about your rifle. Considering what it is and who built it I bet it will be a tack driver. It would be awesome for smacking prairie poodles out here.

Thanks I will let you know as soon as it goes to the range.

The 2.45" COAL 75A-Max kiss is a nice geometry,because it doesn't slam the door on 50's and shines with everything rather brightly. All of mine are in that neighborhood,excepting one that is 2.510" with that 75.

Reserve RPM is money in the bank..................

'flave,

Many folks fall to major misconceptions(look at poor BMD here) and increasing throat length to accomodate higher BC's,is a glaring one. Especially in .224 and musing that 75A-Max in particular(a bullet that I've long stated as being worthy to expressly build a rifle around).

Anywhooo...the A-Max's sporty profile is coupled with modest bearing surface and it's ogive location is rather favorable,in the typical SAAMI throat length.

So one needn't throat longer in it's accords,whatcha need to do is simply twist for it and a "regular" throat will put you in the aforementioned 2.45"-ish ballpark in regards to COAL.

With the twist managed via barrel selection and not going crazy in throatiing,all that remains is the modest modification to the magbox(which was mentioned above) and you are there and in GRAND style.

The HS DBM increases COAL,if you groove that notion(I shoot them in s/a .378,.473 and .532) and it isn't a bad way to fly. Glen Seekin's 223 DBM is a great route and roomy. Or you can either go ADL(I've a few) or opt the various drop bottom BM's. I've 223AI's wearing both Badger M4 bottoms and the issue rEmmie potmetal junk.

With a clue and a thunk to both twist and throating,you can easily do it all and then some. While stupidity is often tough to watch(poor BMD here),folks can reliably see the light and ring the bell at another's expense.

Assuredly,this Thread will inspire more useful blueprints and a 700 based fast twist 223AI is rather quite a machine...............

I don't know what i did wrong,but the picture of "pops" is one of the most perfect out doors picture I've ever seen.

'rick James,

I've seen them pics................

I'd in all fairness chalk it to his aura,which is palpable. Rather a remarkable man,on all counts.

Just happy to do him justice,with the outing and the pic. Kharma baby,Kharma...everyone should be so lucky........

I think your rifle looks sweet.

Did I miss something? Is PWC actually Big Stick???

'Tweren't the Mormons................

I can appreciate his rifle for him as it obviously suits his taste. We all like what we like. I'm just more practical. I'd gear it to fight wind and that means more twist to accomodate the many higher BC projectiles now available in .224" diameter. Extending effective range from say 600 yards, out to over 1000 yards has a lot of appeal to me.

I would have skipped the decorative effects, and rolled the money into an A5 stock, and quality bottom metal. Again that's my practical nature.



That rifle will be on the sidelines as soon as the wind kicks up.

I've got my LR stuff somewhat sorted out, but need to move to 7mm one of these days. I don't cry like a girl when someone tells me there's better ways to get there. In fact, I'm all ears. I'm always interested in improving ballistics, interior and exterior. Mainly because I enjoy LR precision shooting. Hobbling potential doesn't compute in my mind.



What's awesome about massive wind drift while trying to engage small targets at long range?

Montana Marine, I don't argue your number crunching, done alot in my days. And I have in past years contemplated a 22BR or 22-250/ai in fast twist for 75/80s, alas I simply use a 6BR w/105 amax and nothing I ever hit argued ballistics. Fast twist I might add, 8" will do 55-105/107s. I K.I.S.S. and use mostly a 70TNT and 105 Amax but sprinkle a few barnes 85gr and 95 BTs.

But I want to share a story with you.

My Father in Law who died with brain cancer years ago at the ripe young age of 56 would marvel at all my shooting near his farm in the 80s/90s and snickered about my getting SO into the stuff we could call here...excuse me if any ladies are present, 'Mental Masturbation' or ballistic gack.

He shot his first deer with a 'pumpkin ball' in a 12 guage (around 100 paces w/no sights nor scope I might add), and later used buckshot for nearly all his deer hunting till close to his death. His younger son bought him a plain vanilla Savage 30-06 w/3-9 simmons scope factory installed. Before his death, he jumped 2 bucks at under 40 yds, as being human, a creature of habit, he looked over the scope, looked at the deer and swung and bolted and dropped BOTH deer w/in feet of each other! Later he wanted to confirm zero and take a pot shot at a 'chicken hawk' - yes not legal, but none the less, he proceeded to kill it close to 200 or more yds out.

He likely could not group 3" or even 5" at 100 yds on a bench w/bags, nor did he know ANY idea of velocity or drop, or ballistics of any kind.

What he did know was enough to ask me this one question one day as I was bragging on a target....."But Can you HIT with it?"....

I have to honestly admit I was a little dumbfounded/perplexed as I had shot many sub moa groups and showed him groups, though he never cared to participate. The man had enough WISDOM to know, no matter what, if you cannot land your bullet on the intended target, NOTHING else mattered.

My point is sir, you can crap on a man's rifle all you want because he chose something different than you, but I can assure you, when his bullets land on his targets/game, they will be just as dead no matter the twist rate.

ALL bullets drop, ALL bullets drift, it's the owners responsibility to LEARN their gun/gear by trial and error. Rangefinders and click adjustable scopes help, but PRACTICE is more important, allowing one to learn their rifle.

The reason many snipers are trained with ONE load, a pretty much standardized 308 load, have scopes set up for them, is not that they are the BEST on paper, flattest etc. they simply WILL get the job done when used properly. Snipers shoot alot, and with only one gun, one load, one scope, etc. "Beware of the man with one gun" applies. Knowing how to HIT, is all that matters and is not all that difficult when one LEARNS thru practice, NOT printing off ballistics. That helps, but not a substitute.

I have no doubt the OP has built a FINE rifle, and it will give him years of satisfaction, and that his rifle is just as capable of hitting and killing anything he aims it at if he uses the right bullet, and does his part.

Nothing else matters in the end, as it's all Mental Masturbation and everyone does not do things the same......and that's okay

Have a good day sir, and happy shooting to all regardless of how you choose to enjoy the sport.

Shane, post your 7mm thoughts sometime will you? I'm thinking of embarking on either a 7-08 journey or 284 trip. Always thought your 308 was a pretty good model to follow.

Thanks, Scott

Hey BMD, back in my 90s I had alot of rifles I tried, one was a 700 VSSF, it shot 50 BTs into .297 for 5 one day, one of my most accurate rifles, I can tell you one morning out near a cotton field I was looking for 'targets of opportunity' and I noticed some sparrows jumping up on the barbed wire fence around 100-150 yds, I took the rifle with either 6-18 or 6-20 leupold, whicher I had mounted at the time and proceeded to WAX one.....POOOF!! Immediately more came to investigate....I had MORE fun watching those PUFFS of feathers and shot nearly a dozen. As you know, the Swift is DEADLY accurate, VERY flat, and very deadly.

Another day I had a different Swift, a VS 26" that had been set in a BDL Varmint wood stock, it shot 5 around 1/2MOA all day itself with 38.5gr 4064 from memory. Happened upon a crow WAY out across a crawfish pond in a cypress tree. The crow was halfway to the ground....what was left......in recoil as the bullet got there so damned fast! I was TOTALLY impressed.

Long story short, had a blast with what became known as the World's Fastest Cartridge as it was VERY effective in the field for what it was designed to do, and I might add, it was a low and behold 1 in 14" twist

Enjoy your Swift sir! I am sure you will have many days with a smile as I did as mine shot like a laser and I seldom missed!

marine,
regardless of the persons choices - they are just that - his choices. Who knows the reason why a person chooses certain items in their build, but it is their choice. There is no rule that says a choice has to make sense to others or match their choices. If we always built to what the seems to make the most sense there would be no diversity in the shooting world. My 1885 HighWall 40/65 is far from being a hot shot caliber - but it does not detract from the enjoyment I get in shooting it. And hunting with a Winchester 94 in 32 WS does not make a lot of sense to others - but it brings me a huge sense of satisfaction because it was my Grandpa's rifle.

I believe in to each their own and showing respect for each other - not ripping into someone because their choices do not mirror our own tastes.

The 6BR/105s makes a lot of sense. There's a reason you opt 105s in your 6BR, and it's the same thing I'm talking about. There's a reason you didn't twist it for 55s. That reason is real and quantifiable. Not mental masturbation.

Building a custom rig with a top shelf barrel, and put together by one of the best 'smiths available, then topping it with expensive glass and all the trimmings is a wonderful thing. Rifling it per 1930s bullet technology makes it a Hot Mess. There's no getting around it.

It's pretty simple really. 7mm has the best BCs going relative to velocity potential of the medium sized chamberings. I like the 308 and 30-06 parent cases. Not too interested in bigger than that. 7mm gives the best performance vs barrel life in my opinion. Just look at the 162 AMax, 168 and 180s from Berger and JLK.

RL17 is bringing the 162/168 projos over 2800 fps in 22" bbl 7-08s for several of the 7-08 shooters on the 'hide. It's just a better mousetrap.

My 30-06 will become a 280, or 280AI, and my 308 will become a 7-08 when the barrels are gone. The 30-06 is close to 5000 rounds now, we'll see how much longer it goes.

Tanker,

I hear ya, but I'm not scolding anyone. Shoot what makes ya grin. I'm just relating some ballistic truths.

Have we become too thin-skinned to compare ballistic possibilities with modern bullets and twist rates? I hope not.

M1, I get you

MM, I agree the 7's have alot going, and honestly have spent VERY little time behind 30s as Long ago decided a 7/08 was indeed a great round and have not changed that thought.

Yet, you might be shocked that I built my 6BR with 8 twist to add flexibility, not to ONLY shoot the highest BC bullet possible as its not the best choice for hunting, not until you get WAY out there (they behave better/up close they BLOW), yet with 70 tnts at 3400 its very flat and destructive on smaller stuff, and has/will kill deer with shot placement, thru the lungs or neck, but I don't try drilling bone with it NOR the Amax. I think one must get to 400-500 + yds to TRULY see a large difference in low bc/high MV vs. high bc/modest MV, but the fact is for MY shooting MOST opportunities are FAR less then 400-500 yds. I did in a DOE at 400 yds double lunged 105 amax, 6BR, 2850 mv, BUT the second furthest kill of mine was 275 paces.......and then the majority ALL fall at 200 or below. That's just deer, but the point is for my application, MANY bullets would/do work and well, twist aside. Likewise in a 20" 243 #1 Ruger RSI, I damned near tore a doe's head off at 42 yds, yes my buddy later ranged it where it dropped, LOL. Why I picked that 70 TNT at 3500 MV in the 243 to deer hunt that day was SIMPLE. Because THAT is the bullet the rifle was sighted in for, and I elected to use the confidence of KNOWING where my gun would shoot, electing accuracy/shot placement OVER a heavier bullet that would offer FAR more latitude in shot placement. Was that TNT inferior on paper vs. the Amax 105 w/.500 BC? Absolutely! Did it make a damn bit of difference when I KNEW my limitations of a very explosive varmint bullet used up close on a deer? NO, because I KNEW what I was using, it's limitations, and CHOSE to shoot NECK only when that doe stepped out. It truly almost decapitated that deer. I admit feeling inept using a miniscule for 6mm, 70gr bullet, and in a TNT config none the less, yet when the time came to face reality, I KNEW my ONLY shot of choice was a soft lethal vital, the neck, and I placed it well. Another doe at 45 paces was purposefully head shot with an amax 105, as it was DARK thirty and I had no plans to chance trailing a deer in the dark when I could take it out with a DRT hit, as the 105 that close was going to blow, and it did�.half the deer�s head gone. Nasty bullet that amax, headshot a coyote at a ranged 172 yds that year also, all from the 6BR. A 70 TNT, even in a 14 twist would have done the same with duplicate shot placement. Getting a sense of a common denominator? Yes, SHOT placement�.making a hit, where you know that given bullet needs to go to do the job. Success can be had from many ways�..if one knows what they are doing.

What would really shock you and many is that I built a 'modern day/higher tech' fast twist 6BR on a Ruger #1 platform. Seriously, WHO builds a custom accuracy set up on a Ruger #1? Not many, but I did, with a Kepplinger set trigger (8oz set) at that, it was fun.

That said, I think I dropped the jaw on a local who now builds custom guns. Reason being, I shot 3 amaxs UNDER 1/2" at 330 yds one morning at our range, with a 4-16x I might add....

UNCONVENTIONAL action, UNCONVENTIONAL accuracy......but no matter.....the bullets STILL went under 1/2"....which puts that at .1515 inch/per 100 yds however that breaks out on MOA, and THAT is not what you or many might expect from a Ruger #1, Pac-Nor bbl or not. That gun avg. 1/2moa, but the above represents what is possible, and I was �on� that day surely, as I cannot consistently aim/hold or see that well I admit, but I did well that day, and the gun and load showed it�s potential. I do recall shooting smaller 100 yd groups than a guy at the range with a Full blown custom BAT in 6mm BRM and Nightforce scope that was next to me�..ya never know.

I just say this all to temper making any 'absolutes' as again, what difference does all this 'Gack' make, IF the shooter of WHATEVER platform they choose, pushing Whatever bullet of choice, hits the intended target, in the intended spot?

All that ballistic talk becomes MOOT. A hit is 95-99% of the equation if it's placed, and the OVERWHELMING factor is the shooter.

Fast twists, High BC bullets, equating to less drift/drop, absolutely, no arguing that at all. Does slower twist and lesser BC bullets yet at higher MV mean it's inferior? ONLY when the bullet fails to connect.

Think of just how �old tech� those Buffalo hunters were, yet they nearly made the Buffalo extinct, kills of very long distances were documented. The hunters/shooters KNEW their rifles, thru experience.

Taking advantage of the highest tech is nice, but not always necessary to get the job done. I normally try getting the most out of my gear by trying to select the best of components, quality and spec, but in the end, I am the deciding factor or success or lack thereof.

The best equipment cannot replace poor operator error. Nor does anything other than the �best� equipment need to take a backseat when the operator knows and uses that equipment just as effectively because they know what they are doing.

I think I beat this horse�..but good safe shooting and hunting to all.



Oh, I guess I did real good shooting with an 1872 Farquharson Rifle styled action�..

7-08 for COAL constraints,unless you are talking 3.00" mag constraints in a 284Win repeater...............

Stupid choices are stupid choices and can't be sugarcoated. A Highwall in 40/65 and twisted 1-84" is equally stupid and that prior to musing throat geometry.

Your 94 in 32 Special is twisted/throated in accordance to it's possibilities,while a 1-14" Swift is just about as stupid as things get.................

Beware the best Indian,with the best arrows.

A guy can have his cake and eat it too.................

whitey,
depite your rantings all those "stupid choices" get the job done just fine. And are a real pleasure for those shooting them. Imagine that.

You are even more stupid than I thought initially and I pegged the meter on you.

Rest assured your '65 is not 1-84",nor is your 32 twisted solely for flush wadcutters,while wearing a 6" leade.

I've no doubt,that someone will have to spell that out for you as well.................

Nope - its not. I know exactly what I have and thoroughly enjoy shooting everything in my safe. Whether it be a 120 year old Rolling Block or my custom 375 H&H - I enjoy them all.

Thanks. That helps.


Travis

Rifle gack aside, some who extrapolate think that probably never happened. To many buffalo-an estimated 70million at their peak. Not enough shooters and those who did shoot certainly could not not roll enough bullets, in the short time frame the buffalo essentially disappeared to kill that many.

Their thoughts are that our cattle infected them with disease to which they had no immunity.

However, those who did the work certainly knew their equipment.

Scott,

I extend my sympathy for having Larry here on your thread of your new rifle. I too have a Swift with the standard twist and find it superior for varmints here. For sure I don't want a ricochet and thats why I would not shoot heavier bullets. Thus the 1-14 twist is perfect and always was.

Where's JO now?

Spin the light ones faster and even less chance of ricochet than if sent in a slower twist. Just extrapolating.

In theory thats just fine. In most rifle detail debates there is more than one right answer.

Humorous to me,that anyone would even begin to muse a BP wearing irons,as being on the same page as what you can buy over the counter at Mart-Mart today.

Folks who think it rather "something" for someone to be steeped in more than one chambering,simply do not shoot much themselves and are a rather poor barometer of evaluation(s).

Hard to feign experience...................

Dumb Don,

You couldn't reliably poor piss out of a boot,if the instructions were on the heel.

I extend my sympathy on your IQ...............

Bingo...but don't go making sense,it really throws the Do-nothin' Gang for a loop...................

...another few thousand posts and you might accidentally stumble into one.

Some people just don't get it, as they have a hankering to argue anything and everybody, venting their pent up frustrations due to some other underlying issues they face, and can not accept other viewpoints for their ego's give them a feeling a superiority in knowledge which blurs their vision. Help for them will not be on this board but in a clinical setting.

I am confident, that Kampfeld knows a thing or two, and would not allow their customer to waste hard earned dollars on something that was a rotten idea.

If those 14" 22s were so bad, wonder why they survived the test of time this long.

It's not about, mine's bigger than yours, faster/flatter, etc.

Fact is many setups inc. a 14" Swift is a great setup in it's own right, and if one is not shooting 1,000 yds regularly, the difference in practical meaningful terms is often moot.

If it drops or drifts more, you click or hold accordingly. At longer range, you have to compensate no matter what.

A 260 will slice the wind much better, and have less drop than 308s, but has the government changed to it? I guess the 308 just keeps doing what it's done all these years......and I would not want to be on the opposite end of a well trained 308 toting sniper.

I think that some just get envious of others nice equipment so they must stir the pot. All have a wonderful day.

I find it impossible to shift my brain into a low enough gear,to think upon your level.

A 1-14" .224" bore anything(save perhaps a lever Bee or a snug mag confine Hornet),is a brainfart of copious magnitude,despite that obvious going over your head.

Let me guess,you groove on the Bailout money being spent too,as that is commensurate with your very modest processing capabilities?!!?.......................

Substitute 6BR with 220 Swift, and you are making ther same point I am. There's a reason you didn't twist your 6BR exclusively for 55s.




Beating the wind goes a long way toward making that hit. There's a reason 223 competitors shoot 75-90gr bullets at 1000 yards. The 55gr stuff just don't cut it. Bring those same heavies up to 220 Swift velocities and you have a real serious 1000+ yard rifle. Hobble it with 1/14 twist and you just castrated it.

There's a lot of room for choices on actions, stocks, barrels, mounts, etc. Lots of good quality choices out there and the differences can be subjective. Twist rate on the other hand is a very real and hard choice. A 1/14 Swift will be hobbled regardless of receiver, stock, barrel, glass, etc. A 1/8 or 1/9 will shine at Swift velocities.

directed at no person(s) in particular ... but lots here are acting as if a fast twist and light for caliber bullets are a mutually exclusive deal, when in fact they are not.

Twisting slowly ONLY closes doors, regardless of what you think you'll do with your bullet selection over the life of the rifle.

If you literally couldn't shoot lighter bullets (with accuracy) in a fast twisted barrel, that would be someone different ... but again, that's simply not the case.

Regardless of the chambering, when given the opportunity you should always throat/twist for the widest range of options, as there's simply no logical reason not to ...

I'm not going to buy a vehicle with a max towing capacity of 2,000 pounds because my boat weighs 1,995 pounds.

Really?

yes, really ...

I, personally, would spec a faster twist just because I like to run high-BC heavier bullets at longer ranges these days... but not everyone does that.

Hell, barrel life on that fire-breather will be so short, the original poster can try it this way, then try it the other way soon enough if he so desires!

Enjoy your cool new toy, BMD, and thanks for sharing.

Carry on gents.

Looks nice and there is nothing wrong with a 1/14 twist if thats what you wanted. I would get one if I wanted to shoot 52gr speer HPs in bulk or dog town bullets. Sure they would work with a 12 or 10 twist to but I would say they have a hard time sticking together with a 1/9 and under at swift speeds.

WGM and MM, no argument on those points, but to say a Swift in 14" is a bad set up, I don't buy it. Not all of us need to shoot 500-1000 yds on a regular basis.

I have, do, and will shoot plenty more 70TNTs in all twist 6BR, they are flat enough and defy wind enough when launched at 3400.

Pale white, you sir would not be so inclined to be so disrespectful in person.

I am not ignorant of all the gack here, but sometimes discussions get carried beyond what is practical for the intended purpose. I am sure I have done so myself.

I owned a 221 FB builty by Speedy G at SGY, ONLY shot 40s in it as at 3600+ with Lil gun, I saw that as an advantage vs. 50s or heavier much slower. It was flat, accurate, and did what I needed it to do.

Lighter bullets simply DO have a place and work well, so long as the user does their part.

The Swift above was built with a purpose in mind, and for the owners purpose, I have no doubt it will do just fine. Whenever that tube is worn out, he may want to try something else, who knows, but I have yet to see an argument to tell me why his 40-53gr pills launched from a 14" twisted Swift will be ineffective when he connects, and I am sure he will connect just fine.

When he needs more gun for bigger game, I am sure the OP has other tools for the task at hand.

NO question a fast twist has some flexibility as to bullet options, but that's not my point. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall BMD saying he was shooting a minimum of 500 yds, and shots on varmints were to 1,000. His 300 will take care of those needs I am sure

You guys enjoy the day, no harm meant to others, your points are not invalid, but it is more or less relevant depending on the chosen application.

Nice rifle!

SWEET rig Scott, that ought to GIT-ER-DONE.

You, sir, obviously know nothing about dealing with gunsmiths, twists and mathematics. You have the nads to build a rifle designed to shoot lightweight boolits? How dare you do such a thing? Next time please check in with us before deciding what to do. Oh and BMD, you do the same. After all, unless approved prior to building, you will need to explain yourself and beg for forgiveness. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Karnis,

Might you be familiar with the relative case capacity differences betwixt the Fireball and the Swift and then extrapolate in kind,that the larger motor will push higher BC bullets to speeds well surpassing the aforementioned 3600fps/40grainer Fireball threshold?

Use a lifeline and phone a friend,then get back to me and I'll illuminate more for you.

This is gonna be fun and at your expense...................

I've seen me in person and would be happy to slap some sense into you and give you a shooting lesson.

Mainly because my gracious nature is boundless.............

You can't zook a 52HP at nearly 400fps via a 1-7.7" 22-0250AI and rest assured,that isn't a guess...............

Oh most assuredly not. At my expense? Really? Oh, my. Please by all means, illuminate, illuminate.

We've your stupidity rolling nicely now and in most circles that isn't lauded...though I'll break that trend.

Congratulations?....................

There is a hell of a lot of BS on this thread (pun intended), but Shane's and Dave's (and some others) comments are actually very good contributions. Fast twist does indeed allow shooting bullets with better BCs, and when you shoot a lot in the wind high BCs are an excellent idea.

However, BC is only one component of shooting good groups at long range. When I was shooting 1K BR, there always seemed to be an argument about which was better. The guys back East liked the 187 Bib out of 300 mags. They correctly pointed out how the Bib shot better groups. However, guys out West preferred 210 and 220 grain bullets in 300 mags because of the wind. A .52 BC bullet gives up a lot to a .63 BC bullet in the wind at 1000 yds. In short, you were more likely to shoot record setting groups in good conditions with a Bib, but more likely to win matches in windy conditions with a 210 JLK or 220 SMK.

Part of the reason the 187 Bib shoots better groups is because it will remain stable when shot out of a slower twist barrel. Given no bullet has it's longitudinal axis perfectly centered with it's longitudinal center of gravity, the faster it spins the more chance it has of wobbling and dispersing. That is why little BR guys, shooting at 100 and 200 yds, like short, low BC bullets at higher velocities and slow twist barrels--that is the combination shoots the best groups at 100 and 200 yds.

BTW, I'm sure you need to be on a bench to see this fast vs slow twist accuracy thing play out. As stable as I found prone with a military sling to be (the couple of times I tried it), if I could keep my shots within a 10" circle at 600 yds I'd shoot a good score. However, if I wasn't shooting at least 5" groups at 1K off the bench, I wasn't going to do well at all.

So for the ultimate in accuracy, you want as slow of a twist that will still allow the selected bullet to be stable at the target. The BC you choose will depend on the conditions and distance you shoot in. If i was shooting at 600 yards with a 300 WSM, I'd probably use the Bib. Also, there is a difference between shooting good groups at a known distance and making first shot hits at unknown ranges.

Finally, shooting big game animals is different than target shooting. On a big game animal, the bullet still needs to do work after it hits the target. If a bullet is barely spinning fast enough to remain stable when it hits a medium to large animal, then it may well become unstable inside the animal which is not normally desireable. In this case, a faster twist is often a better choice.

I guess I said all that to say there are good reasons to run a Swift with a 1x14 twist for shots inside of 500 yds.

Oh yeah, and it's bullschit to criticize's a man's new custom rifle. I suppose on this thread Larry's comment may have really been meant innocently enough, but given all the ill will he's created here (and I gather everywhere else on the Internet), did anyone really expect a different reaction?

Blaine,feel free to drop some pics and particulars on any/all your Swifts.

Will frost that glaring obvious,with another,in that none of the 30cal tubes you cited...were twisted to slow to allow a choice in BC.

That'd be the crux,your hurt feelers aside..............

Let's put sprinkles on the frosting.

Be sure to hang pics of your Critter Conquests,so as to cement your "experience" there too.

Laffin'................

I can understand the Bib advantage if a guy is hoping for conditions that will give him a shot at setting a record for group size in sanctioned competition.

For a field precision rifle, I'm quick to favor a drift advantage of 6 MOA at 1K, over a mechanical accuracy advantage that is barely measureable.

LOL!!! It is sooo easy to bait a wanna be underachiever with low intelligence. Everytime you come back, you get dumber and dumber...........

Thanks for giving me an excuse to post this again. Here are my credentials for for speaking of twist rates and BCs at long range:

Five screamer groups at 1K, two club agg records, twice tied a world record, too many small group of the match to remember, and a bunch of trophies for winning matches. Below are pictures of the FIRST time I broke the club agg record. That was with a 1x11 twist barreled 300 WSM shooting 220 grain Matchkings. Even Sierra wasn't sure a 1x11 would stabilize 220s.

The average for three consecutive 5-shot groups was 4.91" in these pics.








Here are my latest critters, shot last season and the season before. I expect to have another picture in a couple more weeks. Hunting in a place that has about 1/3 the success rate of where you hunt. All shots were offhand at 70-90 yds, and both bucks were moving rather quickly.








Now go back to rubbing your vagina, which is what you are best at, and quit wasting everyone's time with your poorly written, meaningless drivel.

And just in case that is too cerebral for you to understand, let me say it this way. Go [bleep] yourself you worthless piece of schitt!!

Lesson over.

it chaps my a$$ that the factories are so slow to see the light.

No disagreement from me, but enough guys shoot so well using the other approach that I have accept their choice as the best for what they do. I imagine my match winning Western rifle would have been spanked repeatedly in the conditions they shoot in back East. Just as I imagine an Eastern rig would be uncompetitive on a windy day in the West.

Hi Karnis,

Actually that SGY was bought second hand, when you can get into said rifle at the price of an LVSF, well......I'd trust a trued Speedy built rifle with his bbl of choice over a stock 700, I think a Krieger is what he said he used when I gave him the Serial #, though I was not the original owner, I would never order a 221 w/any other twist, as it does a nice job for a quiet midget round pushing forties......and it would be very hard to heat it up enough to scorch a throat.

There is a place and utility for MANY various kinds of guns, scopes, and loads, barrels as well. Not necessarily meaning any are bad or wrong, just various needs and expectations by different shooters/hunters who have different jobs at hand.

Despite my posts earlier, the fact is I only order 8 twist 6 and 6.5mms when building a rifle, and I live where there is not the wind as in Oklahoma, west Tx, and many other places.....so a fast twist is not as beneficial for me on wind drift, because I simply rarely have alot to contend with.....now I do like knowing I can surpass 243 downrange energy with a 105 amax, at say 400 yds in a 6BR, less recoil, much longer bbl life, and one hole accuracy, but again, I use 70s also. 55s will work also if I cared to go prairie dogging and wanting minimal recoil and ricochet, but I don't have any PDs here either. I have made some hits/kills in my state upward of 400-500 yds, with a 70 TNT and never felt disadvantaged not using 105s. IF, and again, I hardly ever do......had strong gusty winds to contend with, then I might be more inclined to utilize 105s for more in the 6BR.

My knowledge, logic and thinking is not as greatly different as some of you guys may perceive, but do consider the adage, 'Beware of the man with one gun' as High BCs/fast twist only give the potential for improvement, whether it is or not depends on the baseline shooter and how well they do, vs. another shooter.

Haven't 6 PPCs dominated BR matches, often out to 300 yds IIRC, and don't they use 14 twist and light 65-68s? Hmmmmm, ALOT of shooting inc. in the field gets done under 300 to my knowledge, but others may opt for qualifying for the various 'clubs' w/Varmint Hutners Assocation, and that's fine if nailing prairie dogs at 500-1000 yds your sport.

Nice rifle, but you can add me to the list of guys who would never consider a 1-14 twisted Swifter. It totally defeats any purpose I would have for building one in the first place.......

Blaine:

Mighty fine shooting there except it looks like you missed 90% of the time.

Blaine, 1/11 twist is still very versatile in 30 cal.

It was a head-scratcher for me when I discovered even my 1/12 twisted 308 can manage 208s at 2480 fps. Everyone pretty much assumed it wouldn't work. I had to see for myself. My results were sub-moa accuracy at 1120 yards from the ground with a bipod, and a Rem VS factory pipe. Who'da thunk it.

Years back I bought a 308 in BDL/SS/DBM, and wondered why Rem built VSSFs in 12t, for 168s, yet put a 10, in the sporter I had, as if how many hunters would one might guess would use heavier than 168s? Never fired the gun, had thought I would use the actionf for a build, but plans changed.

Besides raw accuracy, ability to shoot higher BC bullets, my thoughts for a big game rifle was that all else equal, wouldn't a faster twist bbl lend itself to keeping the nose forward in a bullet that expands in a controlled manner? If so, one might get better odds for straight line penetration into/thru vitals, which I speculated may have explained why the 6.5's built such a reputation. If you had the bare minimum twist for accuracy to be optimized, would that bullet not likely want to Yaw on impact?

The military w/FMJs or 'non-expanding' bullets might prefer that for obvious reasons, but a hunter with expanding bullets might not benefit the same.

Back on a comment above on building a 14 twist, seems a few paragraphs on the 22-250 AI using 40 BTs at blistering speeds was touted as a nice set up for prairie dogs by a reputable author in a Nosler manual. Was that Steve Timm, cannot recall w/o looking it up, but I'd bet that bbl was a 14 twist, 12 at best if faster. 'Dogzapper' has done his share of PD hunting I understand.

PWC, I've invited you to do some shooting on another thread, and I'll do it here since you bring it up.

Let's do it! I bet Blaine would come up and join the fun, too.

Let's see what you got. All in good fun.

Wow!

Remmy uses 1/10 in the sporter because they're using the same tube in 30/06.

Would you care to have stood in front of that target?

Nope. Serpentine, serpentine!

Looked like this. Made a couple wind corrections, and then started ringing it consistently. 40 moa el correction from 100 yd zero.

Shane, very nice shooting.

Thanks

r

Darn fine shooting there Blaine!

Dober

The only pics I have are of that first club record, though I do have all the other targets in a roll. My second club record is a smaller agg but not as well centered on the target. I do have a couple of 50-3Xs, which were the record at the time for score. If I get a chance I'll take some more pics.

I just got an FN PBR DBM in 308. After I get through hunting season I may just have to try your 208 grain load. I have only done a little prone shooting and I'd like to do more.

Blaine,

2 forked horns and a Doe? C'mon...I really didn't expect it to be THAT funny.

I've 30's in 10,11.25 and 12",running the gamut in capacity,if only for starters. I do find it even more hilarious that you endorse a 14" Swift,by extrapolating upper BC's in 30cal as a Trump Card,despite it being spun far more favorably as per the spectrum of bullets available within the bore size?!!?

Very good call to deviate the crux and as an aside go [bleep] yourself(you'll get more puzzy)..................

My 308 VSSF tube just might be the best 30cal tube I've ever had...............

You flatter yourself with thinking I'd slum your company.................

Ask for a pic of her Swift too.

Laffin'...............

Here ya' go Dreamer,fast twist and upper echelon BC's in .224" conjunction(3-groove 1-8" 75A-Max,to the unitiated).



Talk purty and I'll letcha gawk the poke...............

One sweet rifle. Bet it shoots as good as it looks. Hate the fact that stick has once again ruined someone elses thread. Hopefully Rick will again "see the light" and rid us of this pesky little troll. I didnt ask his "blessing" for my rifle blueprint either, so I guess I'm in for same treatment when it arrives. O well... Once again...one heck of a great looking rig. Hope you enjoy warming the barrel every chance you get.

Thanks 280

Most any cartridge will kill deer with shot placement, inc. a 75 amax spun fast. I killed a few with 70 gr TNT, one spun from an 8" 6BR, the other spun from a 10" 243, they both killed well, the latter, DRT, thanks to a neck shot, the BR kill was 200 paces, walking, so it got one thru the lungs, down in 60 yds. Not my choice mind you for everyday deer hunting, but it's what I had, and it worked well as I used it with it's limitations in my conscious before I squeezed, and picked my shot accordingly.

Something in my memory tells me PO Ackley talked of how fast and deadly the 220 Swift was I think on deer. Maybe my memory is fading but I don't recall anything about twist, likely 14" and cup/core 55s. The Gent who bough my 221 regularly uses his 22-250 for deer, 55 Sierras, gets several deer every year out to around 400 yds, lung shots, rarely go over 30 yds......

again, Shot Placement.

Fast twist/Slow, drift/drop, they all require the user to know how to hold accordingly, and execute properly, nothing more complicated than that.

280, be sure to post your 'new arrival' for us. Thanks.

I doubt it, the enhance terminal affects part.

If anything, a slower twist will enhance terminal affect with lighter bullets.

The m16 shooting a 55 1/14 was much more devastating on human flesh than todays paper punching 1/9 69's and 77's.

So run the 55 grainer through a 1-7 and see how it works.It'll upset on human flesh even more with the faster rotation.

SU35,

You're mixing the idea of a barely stabilized fmj tumbling upon impact with the expansion of a varmint bullet made more violent because rotational stresses have it on the edge of coming apart even before impact.

m

Or are you just a bigmouthed punk bitch???
Only one way to find out..................

You make a good point.

For conversation and to mire you with more facts,the minimum twist rate to stabilize a .243" 70TNT,is multiple rungs south of the ladder,of that which is requisite to stabilize the .224" 75A-Max...if only obviously.

P.O. didn't have today's propellants,nor bullets to banty,which of course much skews the playing field.

I don't have to talk about my neighbor,or someone's sister's uncle's rifle,because I can extrapolate that which is in my mitts. There is ZERO way possible,that a 14" Swift can hang with one in 8". Just as a 16" '06 can't hang with a 10".

Very funny to me,that the masses shoot so little collectively,that they are unable to reliably discern such glaringly obvious facts.

Please continue the humor.................

Rotational velocity,very much interacts with frangibility,which in turn increases terminal affects. That most easily discerned upon things that aren't wired together all that well,as glaring observation.

Even when talking something as robust as an X,I've long been convinced that extry RPM adds a little sumptin' to the equation,as per wound channel.

Which is why I've long said that 10" is my favoritest 30cal rate................................

'Bighorn,

Whatcha do for a living there tough guy.

Laffin'.................

280,

Spare your whining,it gets old.

Tell me all about the "merits" of a 1-14" 280AI,to cement your stance.

Laffin'................

Way to avoid the "crux" there douchebag.
Are you gonna shoot against Jeff O or are you just a big mouthed punk bitch?

(Oh and by the way, when I'm not rolling sushi I can be found making Kim Chee.)

Oh gee...lemme get giddy about dropping a couple grand to give a lesson to possibly the dumbest of [bleep],who has ever tapped a keyboard,so I can say "Toldjaso"?!!?

I'm fabulous with a rifle on a bad day and really can't help it...nor is that a "secret".

Is this where you go all silent,because you know less than nothing about twist rates,throat geometry and bullet selection(in no particular order) or you gonna keep the Burger King you work at under wraps,for like reasons.

Do tell..............

This is where I laugh at you for being a big mouthed punk bitch.
I thought you would jump at the chance to "rub some noses" in person. Guess not...

I know enough about twist rates to know that BMD's 220 will whack the [bleep] out of the varmints it was made for.
I also have enough class to not let a dickhead like you run amuck.

I already told you that I am a part time Sushi Chef and part time Kim Chee maker. Do you like Asian cuisine Larry?

Get your logging pics ready Larry, the alaskan dumpling gang is counting on you!

A 1-14" 220Swift is a concession,whether on purpose or on accident as poor BMD is just now realizing. Nothing more,nothing less.

Thanks for taking the time to set straight the fact that you've neither a 14" Swift or something wearing more RPM's,to extrapolate in kind. Not that it wasn't obvious from inception.

Prolly a good call to banty chopsticks...............

Very interesting.
If I ever did a 220 Swift(or a 22-250 for that matter) I would look to a heavier pill and a faster twist, myself.
No insult intended to BMD, and nice rifle, btw!!

PWC,

I think you got a splinter in you when you took a break on the job, better see a Proctologist, maybe it will change your attitude.

You surely are one miserable human being, sorry about your problem(s).

I wish I could PM you some IQ and experience,but alas you are left to your own paltry devices. Just keep posting about same,as the humor is largely unrivaled.

As per always,feel free to take notes...as I'm always more than happy to help..................

For you, and you should consider this a great honor, I "endorse" this:
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PWC, mine has served me well in life, I have plenty more than you would imagine or concede, but no matter, time to ignore you now as I have more important matters.

Good luck to your figuring life out.

First of all...stand up when you're talking. Oops, Im sorry..you were standing up. O well. Moving on. I run my 280AIs with 9 twists. stabilize the 140NAB with no problem. As for the huge cluster [bleep] you have managed to make of this thread...while you may have a good point concerning twist rate, appearantly he didnt give a schitt what YOU thought or he would have called and asked you first. But since he didnt..go crawl back under your rock and learn not to speak unless first spoken to. Larry, while you may have some useful knowledge in that little pinhead of yours, your people skills are lacking big time. you should learn to give "constructive critisism" instead of being so quick to bash other peoples choices. Instead of making yourself look intelligent, you come across as a stupid inbred azzmonkey, that frankly most here dont like.

You know, the more and more I've seen him post over the years, the less and and less I think that is true. I know what he thinks makes rifles accurate would get his azz handed to him on the 1K BR line................

Funny how with "all your knowledge" and "experience" and "skills" you can't kill a mature anything. That really takes some doin'!

Again good call to sidestep the Swift in particular,.224" twist rates and their bullets and general...reiterate your uncanny innate stupidity.

Now tell me about your "harrowing missions" of flying rubber dogshitt back from Hong Kong....................

I never don't make a good point and that is by design,which is factored by firsthand accounting. I realize it a novel approach in this day and age,but the batting percentages yielded are amazing. Give her a whirl sometime.

Of course a 9" 280AI will shoot round holes with the 140 AccuBomb. A 10" 7-08 will do likewise with the 162A-Max.

Stability is factored by the melding of twist rate and velocity...which coming full circle leaves a 14" Swift in an exceedingly awkward position.

Cyber hug to you,so as to smooth your emotional roller coaster...................

Yawn.....................

Thats funny!....but true.

What else can she do?

It isn't like she could talk in the firsthand about any of it,submit a critter that was older than 2 or otherwise have a first clue.

I'm just delighted that she has no qualm talking out her azz about the incredible number of things she's never done or seen.

Tough to top that humor...................

BMD, Nice rifle

well come to think of it, the barrels a tad to short, the scope is all wrong, and don't even get me started on the color

JEEEZ>>

Go let the air out of a few hogs and smile at the performance.

65BR
Ackley wrote extensively about the use of the 220 Swift.Stating that" the 220 Swift,with proper bullets, was the greatest one shot killer of deer sized game ever devised."
The bullet he was usuing was his own,called the Ackley CE bullet.CE for Controlled expansion.It was a copper pill with a 10g lead insert in the front of the bullet.Thinking it was a 50g bullet.And most all Swifts of that time frame were 1-14 twisted.And 4100fps was no problem in 1955.They tested it on hundreds of deer,goats,pigs and feral burrows.From point blank range to 600 yards,bang flops were the norm.
Ackley actually stated that if a equal number of game were to be shot at practical hunting distances.Say between a 06 and the Swift.The Swift would give a much higher % one shot kills.Its in the book and its a very interesting read.
So its a 1-14 twisted Swift and that was what? 60 years ago......
You guys would have achieved alot more on this thread if you would have just pulled out your wangs and measured them to begin with.....
dave

Frank Glaser, in the book about him, "Alaska's Wolf Man" was quoted as saying the fastest killing rifle he had used was a Swift and he was a market hunter shooting moose, caribou and sheep mostly. He did say the pills were a little small for the big bears. He was hunting for the market from 1915 to the '50s.

Guessing do get ugly,as the Do-nothin Gang loves to poigantly illuminate.

Do you see a sudden surge of 14" Swifts being twisted up?

Me neither.............(grin)

A 'smith that I think highly of laughs at the folks who say a 22-250 isn't a good deer rifle, but he laughs equally at the quick twist .224" guys, since he and his brother have been killing deer in CO and NM for over 50 years with 1 in 14" ROT 22-250s and 55 grain varmint bullets.

Knowing how to, when to, and when NOT to shoot are, in his opinion, more important than the cartridge/bullet combination. He may be old-fashion, but old-fashion seems to have worked pretty well down there in SW CO.

Jeff

I've zooked alotta 50-55gr cup/cores on Critters in 223,223AI,224Wby,22-250,22-250AI,Swift and CHeetah's...twisted 14". Go 12" and the 64PP is far more rugged.

You'll not beat a 50/3X in that application(14").

Adding RPM do allow the 62X(which I much prefer to the 70),as well as some others mentioned prior.

For conversation.............

my yardstick for 'smiths is how well they follow my blueprints, not how much they like theirs.

i could get by easily with 55 Vmax/55 NBT, 62 TSX, and 75 A-max. hoping my latest addition to the stable, the Kimber MT in .223 likes the 75. it's already proven itself with the first two.

I perfer a more modern case than a Swift.If for no other reason than im not a fan of trimming.If you took a Swift and fireformed it to min body taper and 30 or 40 degree shoulder
The trimming-stretching issue would go away.
But that being said there is somthing to be said for a straight up factory chamber.Its simple and can be sold if needed.
At practical distances of 600 or less.I dont see a problem with the bullets he'd have to use in the 1-14.And Ill go so far as to say that at 400 yards or less the 1-14 will shoot tighter groups and kill more vermin than the heavy turd chit you like so much.Dont get me wrong.Heavy turds have there place.But if im going to screw with a heavy turd.I would want a bigger gun.YMMV.
dave

If you shoot 'em through the ribs, deer aren't particularly hard to kill.

What he was saying was that too many folks "over-think" the .224", in that some think that it isn't enough gun no matter what the ROT and some think that it is only enough gun with a quick ROT and heavier bullets. Both are right, to a degree, and both are wrong, to a degree.

Plus 50 years of experience from a nationally known rifle builder carries some weight, at least it does IMO.

Jeff

Once in a while you see something stated perfectly, when it comes to PWC this is stated perfectly. Thanks Blaine

jeff, ya, it doesn't usually take much to tag a deer, but i've seen one shot in the head with a swift come back to life when the guy went to cut it's throat. that was kind of exciting.

but that same guy also brought home elk with that same swift. more than once. and deer that diddn't return from the dead.

so, i gotta agree with the no right answer. i've also tagged deer via 55s. but if you add a few grains and rpms, the returns are exponential, IMO.

The only deer that I've shot with .224" bore rifles have been 1-shot kills with 60 grain Partitions and 64 grain PPs fired from 1 in 10", 1 in 12", and 1 in 14" ROT 223 WSSMs and 22-250s. All have been whitetails weighing under 150 lbs. and all were shot through the lungs, with the Partitions providing through/through penetration in all cases.

Dead is a finite thing, IOW, a deer can be exponentially dead.

Jeff

I agree with this concept........aside from being apparent with more frangible bullets,it has been very obvious in tougher expanding bullets that hold together,like the old Bitterroot IME.

The long range boys may have a point about trajectory from faster twists at the longest distances,but an article in Precision Shooting within the last year or so,quantifying the whole fast twist/ trajectory thing leads one to conclude it really isn't significant to a hunter,with a hunting rifle.

I say roll 'em over faster today,as bullets are getting longer... ................my next 270 barrel is gonna be a 9 twist

That rifle is very well thought out and everything matches, looks great, and swifts aren't hard to get to shoot, mine likes Re15, you'll have a lot of fun with that rig.

Thanks steve.

BMD: That is a very slick-looking rifle!Have fun with it!

Thanks Bob, should be a great varmint rifle.

It's a suck ass rig. Admit it.

I shot the 62TSX into 3/4" at 3200fps+,last R&R. Didn'thave time to do the 75A-Max or Scirroco II thing,those a guy's gotta know. Pard bought it for his wife for killing Bucks and after season he is going to punch it 223AI and lengthen the magbox.

Very impressive platform,thus far.................

I'll grab chow,sing Happy B-day for one of the crew and then will run numbers at your expense.

1-14" is the worst thing you could do to a .224" killing rifle,until you went 17"..................

'anchor,

Would love to hear the particulars on any/all your Swift(s).

I reckon this is when you clam right up,as per always.

Laffin'.................

cant believe 20min has gone by and [bleep] hasn't made another dumbazz post. Crackhead can't seem to help himself. [bleep] moron!!! Nice rifle btw.

Thanks ky, why would I want to hunt deer w/a swift when a 300 win twisted 1/10 will do, just ignore the azz hat.

Your right Karl and I were just in it to build a chitty suck azz rifle that won't kill pd's or yotes. Lmmfao!

To each his own, why would I want to hunt whitetails in KY with 7stw, b/c I can, good on ya...

Good luck this year ky.

KY Jelly,

Is your STW twisted 1-14"?

Why not?....................

dave(who really should KNOW better) says:

"At practical distances of 600 or less.I dont see a problem with the bullets he'd have to use in the 1-14.And Ill go so far as to say that at 400 yards or less the 1-14 will shoot tighter groups and kill more vermin than the heavy turd chit you like so much.Dont get me wrong.Heavy turds have there place.But if im going to screw with a heavy turd.I would want a bigger gun."

The 14" Swift with a 4000fps .242BC 50V-Max running against a 9" Swift with a 3500fps .435BC A-Max.

At 300yds and both from a 250yd zer. The "heavy turd" arrives on scene 114 fps faster and with more RPM,which do promote frangibilty. Drop is identical,though the 75 eats just 1.7MOA wind to the 50's 2.9MOA.

500yds: The 75 arrives 400fps faster and .2MOA flatter and with 2.3MOA less drift.

600yds: The 75 arrives 510fps faster,drops .9MOA less and is 3.1MOA less affected in like winds.

The 75 arrives at the 725yd line,with the retained velocity of the 500yd 50.

Am happy to muse whatever other brainfarts someone is willing to guess about................

so you are shooting deer with 60 NPTs and 64 PPs from 14" twist?

Pwc, bottom line I don't give a [bleep] about your opinion,, if I wanna go 600 to 700 I will break out the Kampfeld .300Win 1/10 and use a heavy turd.

Exactly !!!!

I don't understand your deer hunting with 60 to 75gr .224's either but I don't rant for 10 pages about what a [bleep] tard you really are for doing that, when there are so many better options. I am out..........

BMD,

I thought you said I was on "ignore". I guess you are just as at ease lying,as you are being stupid. Quaint.

The 8" Swift crunches the 14" version,prior to the 300yd line and the gap widens from there. You haven't enough experience to help yourself,let alone someone else...thought it'd be rather funny if you tried. Or you'd no be musing 10" 300Winny notions,though that too will fly over your head.

Killing is easy,if one has a clue and that in and of itself...explains all of your troubles.

Better luck to you on the next build...........

I guess you think the man building the rifle is ignorant as well. Not much else to say except [bleep] you and your thoughts, must be A miserable life walking around with your nose azz high To the rest of the men in the world and trying to make up for your short comings!

Pretty easy for me to reflect concisely,due to my having the aforementioned twist rates at hand and having shot extrapolations of all sorts.

I've no doubt you are very uncomfortable in your blatant ignorance,so much so that you now wish to pawn it off on your plumber. Suck it up,chalk it up to experience...the brainfart is noone's fault but your's.

A 14" Swift is just about as stupid as it gets.............

Class act, I ain't blaming chit on the plumber and I guess throwing rifles in the rocks And taping eyes makes u a [bleep] Einstein! I guarantee the twist was discussed long before the plumber put it together, guess we should have had u in the call as well. LMMFAO !!!!!!!

Few would brag that they gave a 14" Swift's fruition a "long discussion",prior to botching things so badly.

Undoubtedly,that call would have been money well spent...............

Karl and I will be sure and call u on the next one . Really?

Should have called on the first one. Takes some real doing to screw a chambering up that bad and to have the Swift hosed inside 300yds,is a rather glaring display of stupidity.

Congratulations?..................

The first one was the 300 guess we [bleep] that up too.

This reminds me of talking with my brother in law. He's not a shooter, but he is a jerk. Anyone here live just outside of Jackson, Tenn.?
Just so you know, I've used Swifts since the mid 60's. For groundhogs. None of them were custom rifles though. Be sure and use Winchester brass though. Other brands never seem to do as well or last. As for powders, 4064 is hard to beat. Ackley had 4064 didn't he?
Bill

Thanks

People used to drive around in Model T's as well ... and they worked fine.

However, you'd be hard pressed to find someone choose to purchase a Model T today instead of a modern vehicle if they were equally priced and both readily available ...

Still a great rifle BMD
dave

Thanks Dave

No comment.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9467/huntinggh3.jpg

BMD, dont forget to throw this up on blueprints. Kinda wish more would do the same.

R/P,Re-15,75's and 9".

That's a blueprint.................

Yeah I really want to throw those at pd's and yotes u gotta have last word ever time just like my buddy that is 5' nuthin just bred in you lmfao!

I disagree with this, I have had the best luck with Norma brass by far in my swift's.
B

One thing this thread does, in a peculiar way, is ask a question I have for the heavy bullet .22 guys.... Why ask a cartridge to do something it wasn't designed to do, when you have another cartridge which will do a better job?
The reason I was able to buy a pre '64 M70 Swift for $68 was that everyone had gone to the .243. (yes, that's what these were selling for in the mid 60's) For long shots in the wind, .22 can't do the job of 6mm and .25 cal. varment rifles.
Same for deer. Once in a while, I think about using a Swift deer hunting. Lots of deer are killed here every year with .223 using what's on sale at Wal Mart.
I always end up taking a rifle better suited to the game.
Since most of the guys in this post have rooms full of rifles in every kind of cal., why take a marginal cartridge hunting when you have a better one sitting in the rack?
If the answer is... I just wanted to, no problem. I do stuff like that all the time! But I wouldn't argue a .22 was better at long range than a larger cal.
Bill

Bill,

Its a stunt using a cartridge on what its not best for. At least the guys using silly heavy bullets in tiny small bores have a bullet that will penetrate some.

Plenty of even worse stunts have happened in the past.

"Use Enough Gun"

I agree that it will work. Just say'in there are better ways to go.
These's a thread somewhere else here (interesting one) where guys are arguing about .280 and -06 at loooong range. Both great rounds, not much difference.
Now, get in there and tell them about heavy .22s and all.
If you only had one rifle...different story. Hell there are guys here who probably have a package according to the temp and altitude! Interesting stuff. I'm amazed at what you can do if you try.
Bill

"Why ask a cartridge to do something it wasn't designed to do, when you have another cartridge which will do a better job?"


If you "design" it right, its plenty capable.

True. Most of the rounds we use are versatile, especially with the bullets we have now.
The Swift is over on the end of the spectrum. It's a specialty cartridge. I love it, have had one for 40+ years, but it has limitations which take a lot of work to overcome. These guys have found a way to make it work.
Bill

so, what was the 5.56 Nato designed for? let's see, 150-250# thin skinned animals.

but the modern bullets make the diff, like you say

BMD,

I'm not forced to guess,like you are. Hell,you don't even know how your brainfart is throated and don't think that ain't hilarious.

Keep dreamin'..................

Norma is soft.

R/P rules.................

How much deader than dead,can you kill something? I shoot a little of everything(understatement). Good bullets,in good places,do great things and the hilarious part is,all you Do-nothin's are yacking about things you've yet to see or do,though you are steadfast in your copious stupidity.

6mm's? I love 'em and you'll have to try hard to find one twisted slower than 9" currently. 25's? I love 'em and you'll have to try hard to find one twisted slower than 10". 7mm's? I love 'em you'll have to try hard to find one twisted slower than 9".

A 14" Swift is a glaring brainfart of grand magnitude,the depths of which preclude it from using ANY of the bullets in it's bore size,which allow it to shine(and brightly).

I can roll you a buncha kill footage sequences and you'd not be able to discern the .224's from the .243's or the 7mm's or the 30's.

Now define "a long shot in wind" and cite what you are currently gunning in either 6mm or 257...though you are blowing smoke at your azz,when you muse familiarity there......................

Don,

The ONLY stunt here,is you talking out your azz,under the illusion that you've a clue of what you are talking about.

You do not and I reckon that's why you wear a helmet..............

For me, a long shot in the wind is 400+ at a woodchuck in rolling Va farmland in the summer. I have ZERO experience with 6mm and 25 cal. I go from .22 to .30 in most everything I do. I do carry a 6.5 x 55 when it rains though.
In the 50's the .22s died along with the 25s because of the 6mm.
Do you think Warren Page was a know nothing...It was his idea.
I got a swift because it was cheap, and did what I wanted to do, which was pop woodchucks. Not a bad way to spend the day.
Guys were trading in .22s for 6mm just like the short magnum craze now.

You appear to hunt more than I. You certainly spend more time at the keyboard than I, but I'm retired and can spend more time here than when I had responsibilities.
Bill

Just a thought, 300 gr .30 cal.? Why not?
Bill

I KNOW you have zero experience with the fast twisted .22's,let alone the 6mm's or 25's,which is why I said that very thing.

What is your current Death Ray for those 400yd+ windy pokes?

Do I think Page or anyone else,back in the day when a 14" Swift made perfect sense,due to the length of the bullets of their time...could see the marked developments in projectile technology,that would turn everything they knew on it's ear?

Nope....................

300gr 30's? Why not? Because there are none.

For starters..................

Make your own.
Bill

I'm rather contented with the .625BC 162A-Max in .284"...though I do slum a herd of rather spectacular 30's...................

You think you're smarter than Warren Page? I'm sure he considered the merits of what you champion, and decided it didn't make sense. Those heavy bullets were home made long before you could buy them in a store.
Bill

You dream some spectacular dreams. Rest assured that Warren wasn't cranking J4 jacketed secant ogive VLD's in .224,wearing a polymer tip to further enhance BC's.

Keep yacking,you are a funny bastard.................

This has been an interesting thread.

Here in Montana, if one got every tag out there you probably would not be able to harvest more than about 6 animals in any given species. In the eastern part of the state with special tags you might be able to rack up another dozen animals at best. That's it for big game animals and than one puts away the big cannon for another year. Not much shooting experience.

With a .224 set up the way PWC says one can practice all spring, summer and early fall on live targets. Plenty of shooting experience and dead eye in the fall on big game. Plus you still have a shoulder left at the end of hunting season. Try that with a big cannon!

You would be amazed at the number of hunters I hear say they needed 5 or 6 shots to kill big game animal with big booming cannon. They probably could have kill big game animal with the first shot if they shot more often.

Finally, I worked on a political campaign with a retired damage control hunter for the Feds who hunted everything in the lower 48 states with a .220 Swift including bears. He said the bears DRT. Of course, he was a professional hunter who shot a lot.

Watching trace/impact through the glass,do not hurt the learning curve.

Folks who think killing is hard,simply ain't killed much...............

Is this where it gets purty quiet,on your end?

Thought so................

Good point. In the east we are spoiled. Did your damage control hunter use a standard Swift? The Rangers here use .223 for this task. Mr Cracker holds the standard Swift in low regard, probably why it wasn't very popular.
When you say boomer, you may misunderstand; I mean 30-06.
The magnums are not fun to shoot for sure. If you used an inferior round like the standard Swift, could you learn more?
Maybe even a .223?
Bill

Just thinking... You really do remind me of my brother in law. Thats not good.
Bill

What bullet do you shoot in your '06,for those "windy" days?.................

Obviously when you mention "thinking",it is a very loose term.........................

when components got tight, i could always feed my .223s/.223AIs. economy shines for big batches, too.

You misunderstand. I don't shoot groundhogs with an 06, I use the Swift. 180 gr in 06, 55 in Swift.
You should try thinking, you'd have better posts.
Bill

8" does the 223/223AI proud,though my 9" 223AI will stabilize the 75A-Max...................

The 55 in a 14" Swift,will suck heavy ass,compared to the aforementioned 75 in a 9".

For starters...but I guess I made that too clear in direct comparison prior,while you were fascinating upon Page brainfarts......................

I've been known to FF AA-2200 with 50's in 223AI,if only to stretch the '335 larder...................

I don't know as I never thought to ask him and have no way to do it now.

A friend of mine did kill a reasonable size black bear with a mini-14 using 55 grain soft points and I'm sure it was a slow twist barrel. Shot the bear as it stood up at about 75 yards, in the heart, DRT.

You would be surprised at how many elk and mulies are killed in this state with .220 Swifts and .22-250's. Some I know are using standard factory barrels with slow twists and some are using custom barrels with fast twists barrels and heavier grain bullets.

I myself if I were building a .220 Swift for my all around rifle in this state I would go with a fast twist and use high BC bullets but that's me.

For an all round gun, I agree the fast twist would be better. I just use mine as a varmint rifle. I'm guessing the all round western gun would be a 270/280/30-06, or have the magnums taken over?
Bill

Most definitely the calibers you listed and I would say also .308 and probably some .260 Remingtons by now too. The 7X57 has a small following too. The .300 Winny and the .375 H&H mag are the mags of choice for the real hunters as well as the before mentioned calibers.

The make-believe hunters use the most bone crushing (to the shooter) magnums they can find and fire a box of ammo a year at least that's what I notice at our range.

Don't get me wrong magnums are okay if that's what a guy wants and is willing to put in the time with them but most magnum shooters figure a magnum will make up for poor shooting.

There is nothing in Montana to hunt that a magnum is needed for. Your plain Jane calibers will work just fine.

Everything is a "magnum" to somebody.

Speed and BC slip conditions,ignorance don't...................

Let it go folks. geez. sound like a bunch of kindergardeners arguing over something that doesnt matter. It was BMD's rifle, his choice as to what twist the barrel would be. I heard of one other name mentioned in consultation concerning the twist. And that name was NONE of you people. So quit [bleep] the dead horse and let it rest in peace. Crying shame you cant just be nice and tell the man he has a nice rifle and be done. You gotta bash his decision. His rifle will in no way affect the way any of your rifles perform. Let it be. A mustang with a V-6 is a nice car. Lot of potential left on the table engine wise, but nice car all the same. Doesnt make it a POS or a waste just cause someone didnt want all the HP they could have gotten. Enjoy your rifles and your choices and let BMD enjoy his. NUFF SAID!!!

I have to agree with 280A.
Butch

Nice weapon. You and your daughter got and varmits lined up yet??? Man that was a dandy Deer she took last year!!

I agree 100%,BMD had a very nice rifle built to his specs,and I'm sure he will get plenty of enjoyment out of it nothing else matters! BMD thanks for sharing!!!

A monkey grabs a handful of [bleep],smears it on a canvas and you feel compelled to clap your hands?

There is no shame in extrapolation,betwixt that which is and that which coulda been...especially when so much inherent performance is left upon the table.

Hard for me to swoon stupidity.................

nah larry. A midget with a PINK rifle...now thats STUPID. How much performance did I leave on the table setting up my 7-08 up like i did? Better question would be...what friggin concern of yours is it? Quit bein an azzmonkey just because we wont let your giblet lil butt play in our sandbox. Grow up or go away. BMD built a damn fine rifle to BMD's specs. I didnt notice anything on the barrel that had anything to do with LARRY. Face it Larry...contrary to your thinking...the custom rifle world DOES NOT revolve around the corn cob you have crammed in your butt. Thats why there are so many choices/variables out there. We are all different. We like different things different ways. Whats right for one may or may not be right for another. Doesnt make it wrong or stupid. Thats just how it is. You make good points sometimes. What you dont do is choose the proper place/method of offering them. And until you learn that, you'll continue to be the outcast of the campfire.

Feel free to extoll the "advantages" of a 1-14" Swift,as per your "experiences" with one in the 8" or 9" realm. Pull no punches.

Exceedingly good call to be awed by the legendary Pink Rifle,despite it being old news.....................