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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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First of all...stand up when you're talking. Oops, Im sorry..you were standing up. O well. Moving on. I run my 280AIs with 9 twists. stabilize the 140NAB with no problem. As for the huge cluster [bleep] you have managed to make of this thread...while you may have a good point concerning twist rate, appearantly he didnt give a schitt what YOU thought or he would have called and asked you first. But since he didnt..go crawl back under your rock and learn not to speak unless first spoken to. Larry, while you may have some useful knowledge in that little pinhead of yours, your people skills are lacking big time. you should learn to give "constructive critisism" instead of being so quick to bash other peoples choices. Instead of making yourself look intelligent, you come across as a stupid inbred azzmonkey, that frankly most here dont like.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Larry, while you may have some useful knowledge You know, the more and more I've seen him post over the years, the less and and less I think that is true. I know what he thinks makes rifles accurate would get his azz handed to him on the 1K BR line................
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53 |
Funny how with "all your knowledge" and "experience" and "skills" you can't kill a mature anything. That really takes some doin'!
Again good call to sidestep the Swift in particular,.224" twist rates and their bullets and general...reiterate your uncanny innate stupidity.
Now tell me about your "harrowing missions" of flying rubber dogshitt back from Hong Kong....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53 |
I never don't make a good point and that is by design,which is factored by firsthand accounting. I realize it a novel approach in this day and age,but the batting percentages yielded are amazing. Give her a whirl sometime.
Of course a 9" 280AI will shoot round holes with the 140 AccuBomb. A 10" 7-08 will do likewise with the 162A-Max.
Stability is factored by the melding of twist rate and velocity...which coming full circle leaves a 14" Swift in an exceedingly awkward position.
Cyber hug to you,so as to smooth your emotional roller coaster...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833 |
Yawn.....................
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,102
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yawn..................... Thats funny!....but true.
Last edited by slg888; 10/27/09.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53 |
What else can she do?
It isn't like she could talk in the firsthand about any of it,submit a critter that was older than 2 or otherwise have a first clue.
I'm just delighted that she has no qualm talking out her azz about the incredible number of things she's never done or seen.
Tough to top that humor...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 124
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2007
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BMD, Nice rifle
well come to think of it, the barrels a tad to short, the scope is all wrong, and don't even get me started on the color
JEEEZ>>
Go let the air out of a few hogs and smile at the performance.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,787 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,787 Likes: 6 |
Most any cartridge will kill deer with shot placement, inc. a 75 amax spun fast. I killed a few with 70 gr TNT, one spun from an 8" 6BR, the other spun from a 10" 243, they both killed well, the latter, DRT, thanks to a neck shot, the BR kill was 200 paces, walking, so it got one thru the lungs, down in 60 yds. Not my choice mind you for everyday deer hunting, but it's what I had, and it worked well as I used it with it's limitations in my conscious before I squeezed, and picked my shot accordingly.
Something in my memory tells me PO Ackley talked of how fast and deadly the 220 Swift was I think on deer. Maybe my memory is fading but I don't recall anything about twist, likely 14" and cup/core 55s. The Gent who bough my 221 regularly uses his 22-250 for deer, 55 Sierras, gets several deer every year out to around 400 yds, lung shots, rarely go over 30 yds......
again, Shot Placement.
Fast twist/Slow, drift/drop, they all require the user to know how to hold accordingly, and execute properly, nothing more complicated than that.
280, be sure to post your 'new arrival' for us. Thanks. 65BR Ackley wrote extensively about the use of the 220 Swift.Stating that" the 220 Swift,with proper bullets, was the greatest one shot killer of deer sized game ever devised." The bullet he was usuing was his own,called the Ackley CE bullet.CE for Controlled expansion.It was a copper pill with a 10g lead insert in the front of the bullet.Thinking it was a 50g bullet.And most all Swifts of that time frame were 1-14 twisted.And 4100fps was no problem in 1955.They tested it on hundreds of deer,goats,pigs and feral burrows.From point blank range to 600 yards,bang flops were the norm. Ackley actually stated that if a equal number of game were to be shot at practical hunting distances.Say between a 06 and the Swift.The Swift would give a much higher % one shot kills.Its in the book and its a very interesting read. So its a 1-14 twisted Swift and that was what? 60 years ago...... You guys would have achieved alot more on this thread if you would have just pulled out your wangs and measured them to begin with..... dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,673 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,673 Likes: 2 |
Frank Glaser, in the book about him, "Alaska's Wolf Man" was quoted as saying the fastest killing rifle he had used was a Swift and he was a market hunter shooting moose, caribou and sheep mostly. He did say the pills were a little small for the big bears. He was hunting for the market from 1915 to the '50s.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53 |
Guessing do get ugly,as the Do-nothin Gang loves to poigantly illuminate.
Do you see a sudden surge of 14" Swifts being twisted up?
Me neither.............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2 |
A 'smith that I think highly of laughs at the folks who say a 22-250 isn't a good deer rifle, but he laughs equally at the quick twist .224" guys, since he and his brother have been killing deer in CO and NM for over 50 years with 1 in 14" ROT 22-250s and 55 grain varmint bullets.
Knowing how to, when to, and when NOT to shoot are, in his opinion, more important than the cartridge/bullet combination. He may be old-fashion, but old-fashion seems to have worked pretty well down there in SW CO.
Jeff
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,689 Likes: 53 |
I've zooked alotta 50-55gr cup/cores on Critters in 223,223AI,224Wby,22-250,22-250AI,Swift and CHeetah's...twisted 14". Go 12" and the 64PP is far more rugged.
You'll not beat a 50/3X in that application(14").
Adding RPM do allow the 62X(which I much prefer to the 70),as well as some others mentioned prior.
For conversation.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,767 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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my yardstick for 'smiths is how well they follow my blueprints, not how much they like theirs.
i could get by easily with 55 Vmax/55 NBT, 62 TSX, and 75 A-max. hoping my latest addition to the stable, the Kimber MT in .223 likes the 75. it's already proven itself with the first two.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,787 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I perfer a more modern case than a Swift.If for no other reason than im not a fan of trimming.If you took a Swift and fireformed it to min body taper and 30 or 40 degree shoulder
The trimming-stretching issue would go away.
But that being said there is somthing to be said for a straight up factory chamber.Its simple and can be sold if needed.
At practical distances of 600 or less.I dont see a problem with the bullets he'd have to use in the 1-14.And Ill go so far as to say that at 400 yards or less the 1-14 will shoot tighter groups and kill more vermin than the heavy turd chit you like so much.Dont get me wrong.Heavy turds have there place.But if im going to screw with a heavy turd.I would want a bigger gun.YMMV.
dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2 |
If you shoot 'em through the ribs, deer aren't particularly hard to kill.
What he was saying was that too many folks "over-think" the .224", in that some think that it isn't enough gun no matter what the ROT and some think that it is only enough gun with a quick ROT and heavier bullets. Both are right, to a degree, and both are wrong, to a degree.
Plus 50 years of experience from a nationally known rifle builder carries some weight, at least it does IMO.
Jeff
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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For you, and you should consider this a great honor, I "endorse" this: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ![[Linked Image]](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee195/afp416/Misc/Cup.jpg) Once in a while you see something stated perfectly, when it comes to PWC this is stated perfectly. Thanks Blaine
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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jeff, ya, it doesn't usually take much to tag a deer, but i've seen one shot in the head with a swift come back to life when the guy went to cut it's throat. that was kind of exciting.
but that same guy also brought home elk with that same swift. more than once. and deer that diddn't return from the dead.
so, i gotta agree with the no right answer. i've also tagged deer via 55s. but if you add a few grains and rpms, the returns are exponential, IMO.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,243 Likes: 2 |
The only deer that I've shot with .224" bore rifles have been 1-shot kills with 60 grain Partitions and 64 grain PPs fired from 1 in 10", 1 in 12", and 1 in 14" ROT 223 WSSMs and 22-250s. All have been whitetails weighing under 150 lbs. and all were shot through the lungs, with the Partitions providing through/through penetration in all cases.
Dead is a finite thing, IOW, a deer can be exponentially dead.
Jeff
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Rotational velocity,very much interacts with frangibility,which in turn increases terminal affects. That most easily discerned upon things that aren't wired together all that well,as glaring observation.
Even when talking something as robust as an X,I've long been convinced that extry RPM adds a little sumptin' to the equation,as per wound channel.
Which is why I've long said that 10" is my favoritest 30cal rate................................ I agree with this concept........aside from being apparent with more frangible bullets,it has been very obvious in tougher expanding bullets that hold together,like the old Bitterroot IME. The long range boys may have a point about trajectory from faster twists at the longest distances,but an article in Precision Shooting within the last year or so,quantifying the whole fast twist/ trajectory thing leads one to conclude it really isn't significant to a hunter,with a hunting rifle. I say roll 'em over faster today,as bullets are getting longer...  ................my next 270 barrel is gonna be a 9 twist 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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