They say the Classic is an exact factory duplicate, but I've had (all synthetic stocked) BDLs, SPSs, XCRs and none of them have a stock that looks like the Classic. The comb on the classic angles down towards the back while every one I've had is straight. So what does the Classic duplicate?

How much difference is there between the Classic and Hunters Edge (not the Rem Hunter)? I do see the comb doesn't angle down as much, but how much smaller is it? Other than the cheekpiece, is it basically a mountain rifle stock?

As far as looks go, the Sporter looks like the stocks on all the Remingtons I've had, but hear the Sporter is quite thick.

What stock is just like the factory tupperware?

Anyone have pics of the above stocks side by side for comparison? Whichever I eventually choose, it will likely have a factory magnum contour or smaller.

Thanks

I don't really have an answer for you, but if you are anywhere near Portland, next time I'm home, we could meet up and you can see what a Classic and a Sporter look/feel like. I could throw in a Mountain Rifle and a KS, but they aren't on rifles yet. And I don't think the SA MR I ordered for my 7-08 will be done yet.

It duplicates the factory wood Classic stock. I had a Hunter's Edge (Compact with Edged Technology) and it is more trim and has a shorter forearm. I have a Sporter and the wrist is more open and the foreend more full. The only McMillan stock that is like the factory plastic is a KS; I bought a rifle back when Custom Shop guns came with McMillans not B&C stocks. I bought another last year when they became available again.

The Classic is really hard to beat. So is the KS. My favorite though is the Sporter. I'm not in love with the Hunter's Edge but it was stolen so I don't have that problem anymore.

Asked McMillan and got a prompt response:

None of our Remington design stocks are copies of current synthetic stocks. Our Remington Classic is an exact copy of the factory wood �Rem. Classic� series of rifles made all through the 80�s and 90�s. The mold was actually cast around a factory stock. Same with our Remington Mountain Rifle stock. Our right hand BDL was cast around a factory wood BDL Varmint Special stock and the left hand BDL was cast around a factory L. H. BDL sporting stock, that�s why our right hand BDL has a slightly wider forearm than the left hand one was.

None of our stocks matches us with current factory synthetics as they are all H.S. Precision, Bell & Carlson or Remington�s own plastic stock designs. Our �Hunters Edge� stock and our Remington Sporter stock are our own stock designs. The Hunters Edge� forearm is a bit shorter than the RMR design, and the Remington Sporter is similar to the RMR but with a slightly wider forearm and pistol grip. Sorry, but the only pictures we have on file are the ones you see on the web-site.

Regards, McMllans

You mention it may have a magnum contour barrel. You can do that in an Hunters Edge but for that contour the Classic is about perfect IMHO. I didn't think I would like it as much as I have - I actually ordered a Sporter but man the fore-end on those is huge! Mtn Rifle is nice as is the KS if going ADL.
For some reference - its not a great pic but you can sort of see, in the attached picture top to bottom is:
Gander Mtn Guide - same is 1st Gen Ti
Middle is a Classic Edge in short action
Bottom is an original KS

Kind of shows the butt-stock of each.
Hope these help - all good options though McMillans are awesome

I've had a Classic, but don't care for that downward angle of the comb (though that isn't seen as much in your photo). Not sure why, but prefer the straight comb on the Classic and Mountain Rifle.

Right now the rifle it will go on has a sporter barrel, but might change to a magnum (fluted) down the road.

B&C Alaskan Ti. Don't care for the shape and feel of it overall and compared to an Edge, is quite flimsy.


McM Classic Edge (with downward angle pointed out)


Factory tupperware in need of replacement - most likely another Edge of some sort


Looks aside, is there any functional reason for the downward comb vs straight?

I do wish McMillan would update their stock designs, most of them are quite a bit outdated.

Please elaborate

Never even heard of McMillian, must be a small time player. You should look at McMillan and their vast of array of stock selections. Some new, some old...

Cute. Always nice when the typo police come out to play. I've edited it for your approval.

I like winchester M70's and all their stock designs except the hunter's edge are old. The only one I like other than the edge is the supergrade, but it's quite dated also. Remington guys have more options, but us M70 guys are kind of sucking hind teat when it comes to good stock options. A copy of the current sporter stock would go a long ways towards updating their lineup.

Look at their stock styles and most have too much drop at heel and there are a lot of monte carlo/raised combs which I hate the look of. A lot of the designs are from the 80's, just as they stated in their response to NWO.

I agree. Right now, other than the Hunter's Edge, the best pattern for the Model 70 that McMillan makes is D'arcy Echols' proprietary "Legend" pattern. I've had one of those, and have another on order with D'arcy and they're excellent.

McMillan would make alot of business for themselves if they could come up with a modern, full proportioned stock for the Model 70 and have it in their regular lineup.

I sure as heck would like to here a DETAILED explanation of what YOU consider to be a "modern full propitiation" stock design..

Especially when just one outer mold for one model of a McMillan stock runs 10k+

What is wrong with the NINE other Winchester m70 sporting stocks McMillan Catalogs Winchester along with the A Series tactical handles they make for them as well?

For what it' worth- there ARE folks who don't like Darcy's Legend stock pattern in terms of the grip angle and the size shape of the forend- It's same beef they have with McMillan's Classic Sporter pattern- the inside grip curve is too open.

I've had the stocks you mentioned and didn't particularly like them. The Featherweight's forearm was a bit too narrow and the schnabel forend is, in my opinion, out of place on an American rifle. The Sporter is neither here nor there, and the pistol grip is too steep for fast-handling, again, just my subjective feel. Finally, I've never liked the squarish feel of the Supergrade forend. Admittedly, those are only my subjective impressions of those stocks but stocks, like shoes, should be chosen for fit and feel.

Have you owned stocks in all those patterns? If so, what was your subjective impression of them?

I have owned just about all of them all on rifles in either their McMillan form (the Winlite and Featherweight patterns in the late 1980s)or the walnut stocked Winchester factory versions that McMillan directly copied for their molds.

The only one I have never handled is the "Safari" pattern, but I have handled that pattern on a CZ 600..

In every category- the Winchester patterns are just fine from a functional standpoint.

The Monte Carlo sporter is copied from the XTR sporter stocks and is as good of a Monte Carlo as the Remington BDL stock ever was. Not everyone likes the funky hooked grip on the BDL stocks.

The Featherweight stock (despite the fact you don't like the forend )- is popular enough McMillan actually spent the Money to rework the outer pattern with checkering.

The Super grade pattern is functionally just as good as any classic pattern out there

The Marksman and McMillan Varmint patterns are perfectly good varmint target designs.

The Compact Hunters edge is the same pattern a used by Mc Millan for the Remingtons- no hole in the lineup there..

And of course, all of the "A" series bolt rifle stocks can be had in the M70 inlet.

About the only thing the Winchester m70s do not have is a highly detailed American Classic stock pattern such as the in house "Sporter" McMillan built for the Remington.. And yet alas, even it gets no love from some folks..

My point is this-

You can only offer so many stock designs when the outer mold costs over 10k per design. They pretty much have the ground covered with the Winchester offerings.

If you feel otherwise, cut them a check for 10K as a deposit on a new stock mold. Then spend about $2,500 of your time (or a stockmaker's time) building the "perfect" pattern to send them.

I sincerely wish you would- I have been waiting for someone to design the "perfect" riflestock for many years..

BTW, a pattern a lot of folks DO miss is the G&H Classic pattern. I don't even think Darcy topped that one.

Yup...The G&H McMillan was a good one.. .....I had two in 338 and 300 mag and liked them except the grip was just a hair tight,and sometimes the trigger guard would slam back into my hand if I got whimpy with them; this in contrast to a G&H custom wood stocked 338 that was the softest shooting medium I have ever owned, and a real pussycat even with 250's....

JMHO, but for magnums from 7mm up through 375,I have yet to see a better synthetic design than Darcy's Legend....the grip is more open than the G&H,and the design mitigates recoil to a significant degree.I have shot them in 7 mag, 300 Weatherby and 375H&H; it tames them all and honestly I have not used anything better.

Course we are all built different and little things matter sometimes.

At first,I thought the Compact Edge would have too much drop for a M70 FW in 270;but 3 years with the rifle and two big mule deer to its' credit proves otherwise.....it is very trim through the floorplate and a nice carrying rifle....actually handles like a flash.I would do another.....if my Brown Pound'r from the 80's ever wears out that is...

I'd buy one.

I'd buy one of those, too.

I appreciated a fast response explaining things from McMillan and know they make a great product, but do wish they'd take a photo of stocks side-by-side so we can see the differences on the same scale, in addition to the individual photos. My latest rifle cost me $520, yet the Edge stocks run $550 from them and they can't take a couple photos to illustrate lengths and thicknesses and such? That wouldn't cost them anything other than a few minutes of their time and would certainly help out more potential customers other than just myself.

NWO,

What stocks do you want me to lay side by side and what measurements on what stock do you need? I'd be happy to help.

Give us each measurement down to the thousands on every stock & style Mcmillan builds.

Thanks Ryan!

Hey i'll whip that right up for ya stoney!

I'd apprecaite that greatly.

I've had a Classic so know what it's all about. But if you have a Classic you can lay next to the Sporter, Hunter's Edge and mountain rifle, that be great. Hard to tell how they all compare in seperate photos size wise.

Mainly curious about overall length (standard LOP) and if possible, general width differences which a photo would be fine for.

Thanks

The factory injection molded stock is just fine from a functional standpoint. McMillan gets almost as much money for one of their stocks as a complete factory rifle, I want a bit better than just functional.

The monte carlo sporter might have been state of the art in 1980, but it's outdated now just like white line spacers and ivory diamond inlays.

The super grade pattern has a square forend, modern stocks have a much sleeker and rounded forend that fits the hand better.

I don't quite buy the 10K for a mold argument. Each stock goes for around $500, 20 of them and you've paid for a mold. A manufacturer of a $400 washing machine can update their product line every year but one of the highest priced stock manufacturers out there can't afford to update their 30 year old stock designs? I don't accept that logic.

There's no need to design a new stock for them, there are already plenty of great modern stock designs out there, it's just a matter of offering them. If you're a fan of the pre-64 winchester stocks then McMillan has you covered. Myself I would never buy a pre-64 because I hate the stock designs, they're ugly as sin and built for iron sights. As others mentioned the Echols stock is very nice, but it has to be ordered through Echols and I don't believe it comes as a finished drop in.

"Obsessions of a Rifle Lonny" by John Barsness, pages 56-64 would be highly recommended reading.

Or I can summarize it: different people with different builds need different stock styles.

Actually, you are wrong about what constitutes a "modern" stock design..

Round cross section bolt action riflestock forends are NOT new or "modern". They first appeared in their current form in the 1920s....

More angular forends came into vogue with Weatherby and Sako style stocks in the 1960s and due to the advent of pressed and then machine cut checkering. The flatter contours made it easier to checker them. Also, not everyone dislikes them. Besides, the Winchester Sporter stocks are nowhere near that boxy in shape.

The Remington patterns McMillan uses are mostly all copies of factory Remington m700 stocks. The BDL and Classic patterns are from the 1960s and 1970s and the Mountain rifle pattern is about as old. As a matter of fact, almost every classic sporter Winchester pattern McMillan makes is a MORE RECENT design than the Remington stocks.

Compare the basic architecture of the Winchester Monte Carlo Sporter to that of the very latest Monte Carlo stock Weatherby put on their Vanguard II rifles this year. Not hardly any meaningful differences between them except for minor aesthetics..I sure as heck would like to hear what your SPECIFIC improvements to that design would be.

The most recent classic rifle stock pattern McMillan currently makes is their ill named "Sporter" pattern which is actually a very up to date American Classic pattern. If it were cut from high grade walnut, the pattern would look at home on a guild member's rifle. It is a well thought out classic pattern with an open grip and round forend that fits many barrel contours. Yet, some folks rip it apart because it is not THEIR idea of perfection. Many of them without ever handling one. McMillan simply can't win.

Expecting desgin perfection from a factory build molded stock(no matter who makes it or exactly what material it's made from) is a PERFECT example of expecting something for nothing. $400 to $500 for a hand laid up mill spec fiberglass stock is chump change compared to the cost of a one off hand built WOODEN stock made to your exact specs. Whether it's built from the block or built from a custom made pattern, you are looking at 2k+ made by anyone who really knows what the heck they are doing.. Let alone building a mold for a 'glass stock on top of it.

If you think that 10K is "chump" change" for just a mold- then cut a stockmaker a check for $2,500 to $5K to build you the "perfect" Winchester m70 sporter pattern . Then pay McMillan 10K for just the mold- and another 10K for a few dozen inventory stocks..Then set back and rake in the dough once you've paid off those "cheap" tooling costs...

A round forend doesn't make for a modern stock design, I'm pretty sure they've been making round forends off and on since the 1400's. What's sure is that no stock that pleases me has a square forend, and I'd venture to say that most would agree with me on the point. We've gone through the square phase and now we're back to a classic shaped forend, where it should be.



The sporter is a nice looking stock and one that I'd probably like, but it does me no good because all of my hunting rifles are M70's and they don't make anything like it for the M70. That gets back to my earlier statement that the selection is decent for remingtons but poor for winchester M70's. The sporter has what looks to be a decent comb height set up for a scope and while I think the shadowline cheekpiece is a bit too big, I could live with it. It reminds me of the echols legend which I'm sure is a great stock and of course works with the M70, but it's not a cataloged mcmillian item, you have to get it through echols.



I'm not paying for their tooling any more than I'm paying for Ford's fender stamping dies. It's an investment in their business and gets amortized into their cost of doing business. If they sell more stocks then it was worth it, if they don't then it wasn't worth it. They sell plenty of high dollar stocks, they're not hurting for the money to invest in their tooling and I'm sure they eventually have to replace a mold, it would be simple to add an updated design to the lineup. They don't have to design anything, just copy one of the several nice modern stocks for the M70. Heck, all they've got to do is copy the current M70 sporter stock. Surely they have the equipment to do a 3D scan. I'm simply saying what I, as a consumer, would like them to build. If I like what they build then I'll buy it, if I don't like what they build then I won't. I currently have two mcmillan M70 supergrades and one M70 hunter's edge. My favorite is the edge and the supergrades are okay except for the forend which I don't care for. I'd prefer it if they made an updated classic sporter style stock instead of the 1960's throwbacks. Businesses generally benefit from making what their customers want. If they had better M70 patterns I feel confident that they'd sell more stocks, making the investment in tooling worthwhile. It's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

Your idea of what a "high dollar" stock is is pretty damn laugable.

Nothing "high dollar" about a $400 HAND LAID UP mill spec Fiberglas or carbon fiber build shell stock made from molds and tooling that cost $15k including the new stock designs. You can ignore the FACTS all you like- but you are simply WRONG..

Name ONE synthetic stockmaker that can provide such a stock for $500 made to your EVERY design specification? That is my point - they don't exist and NEVER will. Unless you want to pay the same $$ for fiberglass stock as a one off wood unit.





That is the silliest statement I have ever read..

WHAT STOCK DESIGNS???????

What "nice" m70 stock could they possibly copy free of charge that would-

A) Actually fit the m70 action with no redesign work at all.

B) Be a REAL improvement over what they already have for m70s.

C) Satisfy your vague requirements of exactly what the "perfect" stock should look like.

D) Be a stock that anyone else- other than your brilliant self- would actually want to buy..


The quickest way for McMillan to lose their ass financially is to try to please cheap bastards who want a 5K custom built stock made to their every specification for $500.

THE CURRENT SPORTER STOCK!

Damn!!! Are you DAFT?

I'm done with this, it's like arguing with a stump.

The current M70 "Sporter" stock IS the McMillan M70 Super Grade stock! Any differences between the two are so small, it's moot.

Before you call someone "daft" pull your head out of your backside.

Also, understanding the manufacture ,history and terminology of gunstocks might be a big help to you as well, if you are going to insist on telling companies how they should design stocks.

All right, maybe I'm not done with it.

I had a McMillan M70 super grade stock on two rifles long before the current sporter stock ever came out. I can open up the gun safe and compare them, they're not even remotely the same stock design. They have some similar design points but are not the same. If you don't believe me then call up the pictures on your computer and look at them side by side.

Before you criticize someone's "knowledge base" maybe you should check your facts.

Really?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "remotely"?

They are both High combed classic stocks with cheek peices.

Any differences between them are moot.

And guess what?

9 out of 10 folks who like Classic rifle stocks designs will tell you the current M 70 Sporter stock design SUCKS just as hard as any of the other McMillan m70 offerings!

So much for easily available stock designs that are truly worthwhile improvements!

Which gets back to your unrealistic expectations.

The drop at heel is different, less on the current sporter. The surface area of the butt is bigger on the current sporter. Grip is different. Forend is very different, more rounded on the current sporter. Even the cheekpiece is different. They might have a similar style, but they're completely different stocks. The difference between them most certainly is not "moot", I can hold them in my hands and tell that.

I don't have expectations of anything. I'm a consumer, I buy what I like and if I don't like it I don't buy it. It's up to the producer to either make what people like or forego the sales. I frankly don't know or care how mcmillan goes about designing their stocks, their tooling costs, or the type of toilet paper in their bathroom. If I like what they produce and the price they sell it at then I'll buy it. For the M70 I like their hunter's edge stock, I don't like all their other M70 designs with the exception of the supergrade which is tolerable but outdated.

My apologies for calling you daft.

No apology needed.

At times I can be a bit daft-and very stubborn..

I will tell you what- let's make lemonade out of our lemons here..

I suggest you start a NEW thread asking the question- "WHAT NEW McMillan Sporter stock FOR THE M70 Winchester?

Lay out your premise that the current Desgins are lacking.

Ask for folks to post PICTURES or links to the stock desgins they would most like to see McMillan offer for the m70.. I have several.

It would be fun, instructive thread.

i love my A5 but since this is out there a McMillan quality version of the SPS-Varmint would be a godsend for a walking varminter.

NWO,

send me a pm with your email address, i have some pics for you.

The Sako Classic isn't a bad choice for the M70....but I would like to see the G&H again.

1) The current McMillan M70 Super Grade pattern needs a half-round forend like the late New Haven Classic Super Grades.

2) It would be nice for McMillan to offer a non-drop belly Winchester Safari like the Weatherby Express pattern.

3) It would be nice if McMillan offers a G&H High Comb pattern

4) I am still waiting for McMillan to offer the Compact Hunters Edge pattern for the Kimber 84M.

Images are not to scale


Stock lengths out of the mold:
Hunters Edge = 30 ��
Rem Classic = 31�
Rem Sporter = 30 ��
Rem MR = 31�

...and folks wonder why McMillan is so good, and their customers are so loyal.
Kudos McMillan and Ryan!

Here are the provided photos, thanks again

Great pics, thanks for posting them.

+1000 !

Yes and those pics are great. Thanks StW and NWO for posting them. That helps me greatly as I'm deciding on one for a 7mm mag build.

I very, very much second these suggestions.

I seem to recall that part of the reason McMillan dropped the G&H was that the mold warped or cracked. If needed, I have a G&H stock (not for sale, BTW) that I would donate to recreate the mold if McMillan would make another one for me to replace it afterwards. I would promise to buy more G&H's from them, too.

I've been looking for pic like these for a while.

Thanks for this. It seems like the grip angle on the Compact Edge is more similar to that of the Rem Sporter. The Rem Classic and Rem MR have less open grips.