Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats A couple of McMillan questions

NWO,

What stocks do you want me to lay side by side and what measurements on what stock do you need? I'd be happy to help.

Give us each measurement down to the thousands on every stock & style Mcmillan builds.

Thanks Ryan!

Hey i'll whip that right up for ya stoney!

I'd apprecaite that greatly.

I've had a Classic so know what it's all about. But if you have a Classic you can lay next to the Sporter, Hunter's Edge and mountain rifle, that be great. Hard to tell how they all compare in seperate photos size wise.

Mainly curious about overall length (standard LOP) and if possible, general width differences which a photo would be fine for.

Thanks

The factory injection molded stock is just fine from a functional standpoint. McMillan gets almost as much money for one of their stocks as a complete factory rifle, I want a bit better than just functional.

The monte carlo sporter might have been state of the art in 1980, but it's outdated now just like white line spacers and ivory diamond inlays.

The super grade pattern has a square forend, modern stocks have a much sleeker and rounded forend that fits the hand better.

I don't quite buy the 10K for a mold argument. Each stock goes for around $500, 20 of them and you've paid for a mold. A manufacturer of a $400 washing machine can update their product line every year but one of the highest priced stock manufacturers out there can't afford to update their 30 year old stock designs? I don't accept that logic.

There's no need to design a new stock for them, there are already plenty of great modern stock designs out there, it's just a matter of offering them. If you're a fan of the pre-64 winchester stocks then McMillan has you covered. Myself I would never buy a pre-64 because I hate the stock designs, they're ugly as sin and built for iron sights. As others mentioned the Echols stock is very nice, but it has to be ordered through Echols and I don't believe it comes as a finished drop in.

"Obsessions of a Rifle Lonny" by John Barsness, pages 56-64 would be highly recommended reading.

Or I can summarize it: different people with different builds need different stock styles.

Actually, you are wrong about what constitutes a "modern" stock design..

Round cross section bolt action riflestock forends are NOT new or "modern". They first appeared in their current form in the 1920s....

More angular forends came into vogue with Weatherby and Sako style stocks in the 1960s and due to the advent of pressed and then machine cut checkering. The flatter contours made it easier to checker them. Also, not everyone dislikes them. Besides, the Winchester Sporter stocks are nowhere near that boxy in shape.

The Remington patterns McMillan uses are mostly all copies of factory Remington m700 stocks. The BDL and Classic patterns are from the 1960s and 1970s and the Mountain rifle pattern is about as old. As a matter of fact, almost every classic sporter Winchester pattern McMillan makes is a MORE RECENT design than the Remington stocks.

Compare the basic architecture of the Winchester Monte Carlo Sporter to that of the very latest Monte Carlo stock Weatherby put on their Vanguard II rifles this year. Not hardly any meaningful differences between them except for minor aesthetics..I sure as heck would like to hear what your SPECIFIC improvements to that design would be.

The most recent classic rifle stock pattern McMillan currently makes is their ill named "Sporter" pattern which is actually a very up to date American Classic pattern. If it were cut from high grade walnut, the pattern would look at home on a guild member's rifle. It is a well thought out classic pattern with an open grip and round forend that fits many barrel contours. Yet, some folks rip it apart because it is not THEIR idea of perfection. Many of them without ever handling one. McMillan simply can't win.

Expecting desgin perfection from a factory build molded stock(no matter who makes it or exactly what material it's made from) is a PERFECT example of expecting something for nothing. $400 to $500 for a hand laid up mill spec fiberglass stock is chump change compared to the cost of a one off hand built WOODEN stock made to your exact specs. Whether it's built from the block or built from a custom made pattern, you are looking at 2k+ made by anyone who really knows what the heck they are doing.. Let alone building a mold for a 'glass stock on top of it.

If you think that 10K is "chump" change" for just a mold- then cut a stockmaker a check for $2,500 to $5K to build you the "perfect" Winchester m70 sporter pattern . Then pay McMillan 10K for just the mold- and another 10K for a few dozen inventory stocks..Then set back and rake in the dough once you've paid off those "cheap" tooling costs...

A round forend doesn't make for a modern stock design, I'm pretty sure they've been making round forends off and on since the 1400's. What's sure is that no stock that pleases me has a square forend, and I'd venture to say that most would agree with me on the point. We've gone through the square phase and now we're back to a classic shaped forend, where it should be.



The sporter is a nice looking stock and one that I'd probably like, but it does me no good because all of my hunting rifles are M70's and they don't make anything like it for the M70. That gets back to my earlier statement that the selection is decent for remingtons but poor for winchester M70's. The sporter has what looks to be a decent comb height set up for a scope and while I think the shadowline cheekpiece is a bit too big, I could live with it. It reminds me of the echols legend which I'm sure is a great stock and of course works with the M70, but it's not a cataloged mcmillian item, you have to get it through echols.



I'm not paying for their tooling any more than I'm paying for Ford's fender stamping dies. It's an investment in their business and gets amortized into their cost of doing business. If they sell more stocks then it was worth it, if they don't then it wasn't worth it. They sell plenty of high dollar stocks, they're not hurting for the money to invest in their tooling and I'm sure they eventually have to replace a mold, it would be simple to add an updated design to the lineup. They don't have to design anything, just copy one of the several nice modern stocks for the M70. Heck, all they've got to do is copy the current M70 sporter stock. Surely they have the equipment to do a 3D scan. I'm simply saying what I, as a consumer, would like them to build. If I like what they build then I'll buy it, if I don't like what they build then I won't. I currently have two mcmillan M70 supergrades and one M70 hunter's edge. My favorite is the edge and the supergrades are okay except for the forend which I don't care for. I'd prefer it if they made an updated classic sporter style stock instead of the 1960's throwbacks. Businesses generally benefit from making what their customers want. If they had better M70 patterns I feel confident that they'd sell more stocks, making the investment in tooling worthwhile. It's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

Your idea of what a "high dollar" stock is is pretty damn laugable.

Nothing "high dollar" about a $400 HAND LAID UP mill spec Fiberglas or carbon fiber build shell stock made from molds and tooling that cost $15k including the new stock designs. You can ignore the FACTS all you like- but you are simply WRONG..

Name ONE synthetic stockmaker that can provide such a stock for $500 made to your EVERY design specification? That is my point - they don't exist and NEVER will. Unless you want to pay the same $$ for fiberglass stock as a one off wood unit.





That is the silliest statement I have ever read..

WHAT STOCK DESIGNS???????

What "nice" m70 stock could they possibly copy free of charge that would-

A) Actually fit the m70 action with no redesign work at all.

B) Be a REAL improvement over what they already have for m70s.

C) Satisfy your vague requirements of exactly what the "perfect" stock should look like.

D) Be a stock that anyone else- other than your brilliant self- would actually want to buy..


The quickest way for McMillan to lose their ass financially is to try to please cheap bastards who want a 5K custom built stock made to their every specification for $500.

THE CURRENT SPORTER STOCK!

Damn!!! Are you DAFT?

I'm done with this, it's like arguing with a stump.

The current M70 "Sporter" stock IS the McMillan M70 Super Grade stock! Any differences between the two are so small, it's moot.

Before you call someone "daft" pull your head out of your backside.

Also, understanding the manufacture ,history and terminology of gunstocks might be a big help to you as well, if you are going to insist on telling companies how they should design stocks.

All right, maybe I'm not done with it.

I had a McMillan M70 super grade stock on two rifles long before the current sporter stock ever came out. I can open up the gun safe and compare them, they're not even remotely the same stock design. They have some similar design points but are not the same. If you don't believe me then call up the pictures on your computer and look at them side by side.

Before you criticize someone's "knowledge base" maybe you should check your facts.

Really?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "remotely"?

They are both High combed classic stocks with cheek peices.

Any differences between them are moot.

And guess what?

9 out of 10 folks who like Classic rifle stocks designs will tell you the current M 70 Sporter stock design SUCKS just as hard as any of the other McMillan m70 offerings!

So much for easily available stock designs that are truly worthwhile improvements!

Which gets back to your unrealistic expectations.

The drop at heel is different, less on the current sporter. The surface area of the butt is bigger on the current sporter. Grip is different. Forend is very different, more rounded on the current sporter. Even the cheekpiece is different. They might have a similar style, but they're completely different stocks. The difference between them most certainly is not "moot", I can hold them in my hands and tell that.

I don't have expectations of anything. I'm a consumer, I buy what I like and if I don't like it I don't buy it. It's up to the producer to either make what people like or forego the sales. I frankly don't know or care how mcmillan goes about designing their stocks, their tooling costs, or the type of toilet paper in their bathroom. If I like what they produce and the price they sell it at then I'll buy it. For the M70 I like their hunter's edge stock, I don't like all their other M70 designs with the exception of the supergrade which is tolerable but outdated.

My apologies for calling you daft.

No apology needed.

At times I can be a bit daft-and very stubborn..

I will tell you what- let's make lemonade out of our lemons here..

I suggest you start a NEW thread asking the question- "WHAT NEW McMillan Sporter stock FOR THE M70 Winchester?

Lay out your premise that the current Desgins are lacking.

Ask for folks to post PICTURES or links to the stock desgins they would most like to see McMillan offer for the m70.. I have several.

It would be fun, instructive thread.

i love my A5 but since this is out there a McMillan quality version of the SPS-Varmint would be a godsend for a walking varminter.

NWO,

send me a pm with your email address, i have some pics for you.

The Sako Classic isn't a bad choice for the M70....but I would like to see the G&H again.

1) The current McMillan M70 Super Grade pattern needs a half-round forend like the late New Haven Classic Super Grades.

2) It would be nice for McMillan to offer a non-drop belly Winchester Safari like the Weatherby Express pattern.

3) It would be nice if McMillan offers a G&H High Comb pattern

4) I am still waiting for McMillan to offer the Compact Hunters Edge pattern for the Kimber 84M.

Images are not to scale


Stock lengths out of the mold:
Hunters Edge = 30 ��
Rem Classic = 31�
Rem Sporter = 30 ��
Rem MR = 31�