Looking to drop a Remington 660 rebarrled to 284 in a good quality fiberglass stock any one have an opinion on MPI or Banser or do you suggest someone else?

I'd go McMillan Edge of some sort as a 1st choice.

Bansner as a second choice.

You couldn't give me an MPI.

I have a Bansner on my Rem 700 308 win and an Edge on my Model 70 284 win. The Edge is probably a little stiffer, but I really like the Bansner as well. Both weight 24 ounces - the Edge with the 1" decelerator and the Bansner with a 1" Limbsaver. Very happy with both. No experience with MPI so can't comment.

I live about 20 minutes from MPI and always see them at our local Sportsmans show. Not that impressive IMHO and the guy who always mans the booth is less than user friendly.

Also, not to say you can't build a high quality product in a less than nice building but really their "factory" looks a little suspect to say the least. Side by side they are not near a McMillan at the same cost.

Bansner all the way.

I've never owned an MPI. For all I know it's the best but have owned both Bansner and McMillan. I know McMillan is the most popular here and probably elsewhere but I like both equally well.

I've got a Bansner that's been on my Model 70 30-06 that Bansner bedded well over 10 years ago. It's the most consistently accurate rifle with all kinds of loads I've owned. It's been shot a lot and I've never had a problem with it.

The MPI will require a lot more work . I have both on some of my rifle

McM would be my first choice.

If going cheap, get a B&C Medalist on line from Stocky. Mine cost $209 and isn't a bad stock. Not a McM, but not bad and for less than half the cost.

DF

Money or wait not an issue. McMillian all the way. Love mine

Handy and can do your own fitting and bedding. Banser is a great stock finishing the 2nd one this week as I type this. They take some effort.

Never had an MPI, can't say.

The only reason I ever get a micky is to get the molded in swirl finish. Other than this, there are several good stock makers out there. I have an MPI, Brown Precision, several Mickys, have done one Bansner and a slew of B&C stocks.

MPI and Brown take the most work. The Bansner is the lightest. I have only ever broken one fiberglass stock- it was a B&C from a long time ago- the recoil lug broke through the flimsy mortise. I filled it and rebedded it which has lasted to this day.

MPI? IMO don't.

Before I knew much about the synthetic stock industry and McMillan, I had MPI install a stock for me. Rifle had a blind magazine. They didn't add an escheon so front action screw pulled through. It was a throw together job. LOP that was requested was shorter. They just chopped off rear of stock never moving sling swivel forward. Action was bedded with an upwards tilt. Spent a fortune shipping rifle and stock back and forth three times. They finally agreed to give me a new stock.

I put the original blind mag rifle in a McMillan which is still doing fine 15 yrs later. I had another model 70 that I sent to have a new stock installed. This model 70 had a floorplate and they put that rifle into the second stock. That one split behind front action screw below the hinge recess. I was disgusted at that point. Sent back stock and requested that my money be returned. Their ad has said for years that they guaranteed customer satisfaction. They would not return my money. So...I wrote to the attorneys gen of Oregon AND Az. Doc wrote a scathing letter to the attorneys general that I was a con man, hustler etc. Neither state could do anything. End result Doc kept the stock AND never returned my money.

If you want customer satisfaction don't use MPI. Who knows maybe things will be okay but then again you might get another popsicle stick stock.

pic that has been shown on 24 hr in the past.

I've had a bunch of MPI stocks. Have never had an issue with one. The key to an MPI stock is a competent gunsmith.They do require a bit more work than others.
Have a Bansner at this time also. Its a nice stock but it is not as stiff as an MPI.
If you want light weight nobody makes a stock lighter than MPI



Top pick is a Bansner bottom is MPI

Trappererick,

If you want the lightest you can get you might go with Lone Wolf. They make a twelve ounce version. I ordered one but had them make it look like a Weatherby shape. It still came in under twenty ounces.

I checked with Lone Wolf and they don't inlet for the 600. I have only seen some finished MPI stocks and to be honest they all looked good to me but like stated I think it depend on the guy who puts it on.

I have a 600 in a MPI, it is over 20 years old and I like it. At the time Brown Precision required much more work to finish. I have no idea what they are like now but it was a pretty good stock for the $ at that time.

I have a M-7 in a Lone Wolf Summit. I don't know how much difference, other than the bolt handle, there is between a M-600 and a M-7. Maybe someone can add some light.

DF

I've got two MPI Kevlar stocks. Both ran 18-19 ozs. ready to bolt up. Over ten years ago, they had problems and were not recommended. But now, the last I heard, their record for holding up was even better than the Brown Pounders.
I've got two McMillians and had one other. They were alot more expensive, heavier and took alot longer to get. My 660 action custom has one on it. No problems or complaints. But at 32 ozs., it's alot heavier than the MPI Kevlar models. E

Ahh, the popsicle stick stock makes it's rounds again. This was done by an ex-MPI employee who decided to circulate it on the net to make Doc look bad. I have had 14 different MPI's and have bedded bunches of others for customers when I had my shop. I will say that I have never been unhappy with one. They do require a bit more work, but worth it IMO. Just my 2 cents.

Most "MPI gone bad" stories I've read about are due to improper bedding or fitting by gunsmiths, Of course everyone puts out a lemon once on a while.

I have another rifle at the smiths right now having a MPI installed sure hope it not a lemon >grin

See if Wildcat Composites make one for a 600.

Concur in spades...

You are WRONG in the extreme. I took the above photograph when I was at the Colorado School of Trades in 2005(on Darcy Echols' recommendation fwiw). I have/had NO axe to grind and simply found it amazing that anyone would build a stock like that... And no I have never worked for MPI nor do I know "doc".

The instructors said they went with MPI because it was the worst synthetic on the market and required the most effort on behalf of the gunsmith. I had led a sheltered life shooting/bedding McMillans and found it to be a grand waste of time and epoxy. It comes down to how much time and epoxy you want to put in a substandard stock. If you like them by all means use them...

Who came up with the "ex-employee" angle?

Matt Garrett.

Mickey Coleman said the same thing..

Matt,

Are you saying the stock came from MPI with the sticks already on it??

I had a competent gunsmith install mine and will soon be getting another MPI for my 30 Gibbs. They fit me and handle better than the other Walmart stock you guys are so fond of.

Matt in Va,

I stand corrected then. There was another pic of an MPI stock floating around for a year or so and I thought this was the same one. My mistake. With that one, some guy got fired for logging extra hours, got mad and circulated the picture. I was told that by the guy who was currently doing the bedding for them.

Every blank that I have ordered from them has been great IMO, and no sticks to speak of. I would freak if something like that was sent to me though!

I thought the locker in the background looked familiar, I graduated from CST in 1999. Where are you in Va?

I am not. I asked the fellow working on the stock and he said that is what he found when he went through the exterior. I found it difficult to believe, however, the fellow was a former Ranger and had no nonsense attitude. In short in the year and 4 months I knew him he did not give me a reason to question his veracity.

My issue with the stocks, quite honestly, was looking at what you started with and what it took in material and time to come out with, respectively, at best a marginal end product. Compared to a properly bedded and cleaned up McMillan.

No doubt you can make them look like a decent stock, however, unless time and epoxy are free it does not make economic since or lead to a first class end product...imho

Regards, Matt.

Thanks for the reply Matt, but arent you comparing Mcmillans drop in to a MPI stock blank?

The other thing is that all stocks made from Kevlar are a royal PTA to fit and finish. McMillian stopped making the KS stocks for Remington because of this.
If a 24 oz. McMillian Edge will suit you, fine. I really like my 18 oz. MPI's. Allows me to use steel for other critical parts w/o going over my target weight for the rifle.
BTW, that "crappy" MPI is probably a little older than 2005. My first MPI was made about 2007 and it has no such stuff in it. The guy that put it together for my rifle, had been using them with a better record for durability than the famous Brown Pounder for a couple of years before that. E

I would think it's pretty obvious from looking at the sticks are molded in. I would think they only way to do that is have access to the mold.

Terry

Terry, I thought it was obvious the sticks were glued on and bonded over

I'm sorry, but I know Doc personally and I know that he would not put a blank out with popsicle sticks in it. That is just rubbish. If that did come from MPI, I'm sure that they would replace the stock, apologise profusely and get a new on out to you. Someone would be fired.

You can't really compare the two. A McMillan is darn near a finished product. Skim bed, and out the door. An MPI blank is a shell to be custom fit, cut and finished to the customers bbld action. Yes there is more work involved and that is expected. MPI's are not drop in stocks, period.

Full disclosure: I am a McMillan dealer.


I have finished and bedded a LOT of stocks, and I concur wholeheartedly with the notion that it is a false economy to take a blank and finish it yourself. It may be worth it for FUN, or for a LEARNING EXPERIENCE, or for personal satisfaction, or for any other number of reasons. Yes. So I have no beef with those that do (I enjoyed the ones I did!).

But from a purely economic standpoint?

Consider ... A Bansner blank (I still own a 600 with a Bansner I worked myself) is $252 at Brownells ... raw. Add $38 for a Decelerator, $20 for pillars, and $28 for an AcraGlas gel kit (because you WILL have to bed in the barrel channel) and a few bucks for shipping.

We'll assume you have an appropriate saw, grinding wheel or belt sander, various grades of sandpaper, 20-mil plumber's tape, masking tape, some filling compound like Bondo, and some SuperGlue (for gluing on the pad), a dremel, mask, etc.

Not including all that stuff, you're at $350-ish for materials WITHOUT PAINT.

An EDGE in the Gear Shop is $543 delivered. That comes professionally painted with Polane, with an installed Decelerator at your LOP, studs, and installed pillars. Fit and finish will be stellar, AND you have a lifetime guarantee.

So you're looking at about a $200 difference. For that, you need to cut the stock to length and install and grind down a pad, properly fit the barreled action, prep, and pillar bed tip to tang. Clean up bedding job, then fill in voids, prep for paint, degrease, tape off and spray.

Oh, and good luck comparing any OTC paint to the Sherwin Williams Polane T McMillan uses ($90/gallon last time I checked!) Trust me on that one. I've painted a few.

And then you have to decide if the finished product is on par with the quality of a custom-drop-in McMillan EDGE. I'll leave the determination to others, as my opinion is certainly not economically detached.

If I was going to tackle that project, I'd set aside a weekend, but I'm finicky, a perfectionist, and I like to take my time. Those with more skills than I have could likely do it in much less time.

Not that RickBin needs corroboration but I have seven McMillans (6 bought used), two MPI's(one from Doc and one bought used) and five Bansners( mix of new and used). I like the Bansners because of my small hands but they cost as much as the McMillans new if you hire the finish work done. I am happy with my two MPI's but they need lots of work to finish as do the Bansners. McMillans are virtually drop ins.

Have finished out only one MPI ... for a good reason. The blank was less than inpressive ... very,very crude workmanship. Turned out OK after a fair amount of work but I have not been tempted to repeat the process.

A Bansner I am currently fitting to a Model 70 is fairly well done. If you have a bit of glass working skill it is no problem to clean the High Tech up.

Wow. The pop-sick-L Stick stock is back. Knowing what I do about MPI Stocks, and some of the students that have "added their own special touch" to project stocks, at the Colorado School of Trades. I will still have to throw a BS flag on the picture. I have seen studends epoxy 5 lbs of white pine to an MPI Stock to make cheek rests, wide forends, and more. I have also seen them use other items, like in the pics, to " stiffen" the stock, or add weight. Most have never worked with fiberglass before, and were allowed, by their instructors, to do some very stupid things. I have installed several hundred MPI Stocks, ranging from 9 1/2 oz. graphite kevlar blanks to 5lb. 8X laminated glass blanks for the 577 Tyranisaur. NO popsycle sticks, sorry. The standard fiberglass stocks have a piece of wood epoxied in the bottom of the nose, and butt, for conventional and QD sling stud instalation. The light weight stocks can be had with a small alluminum pad, epoxied in, for tapping a machine thread, sling stud in, to save weight.The stocks can be custom built, about any way you want them, for about any make or model of rifle. Call your favorite stock maker and ask about a 15oz. light weight stock for a Kliengunther, or Colt Sauer. Then if you realy want, or need one, call Doc at MPI. If you do not have the skill level required, for the instalation, you can send your rifle in and have as much or as little done, as you need.
Oh, by the way. Why did the guy, that took the cool pictures remove the fiberglass shell, from the stock? Was he going to glue a 2X4 on for a cheek rest?
I will stop now and save some, for another post. Thanks Rick

The sticks look to be accra glassed to the outside of the stock, from the picture.

Good points, Rick, as far as they go.
My first MPI was a replacement to a McMillian FWT for a Winchester 70 FWT. McMillian had assured me that, especially by adding 2-4 ozs. of graphite to the stock, that I could use a shooting sling and the stock wouldn't bend at the forend. Well, even with the added graphite, it bent so bad when using a shooting sling, it wasn't useable with one. That was about $450 and almost five months of waiting down the drain. I had the McM stock sold for $150.
The MPI, finished, and installed by a pro took 3.5 weeks. Total cost was $410. Above all, it works perfectly with a shooting sling. And a full 12 ozs. lighter.
I know of only one such MPI stock that developed a hair line surface crack on one rifle. It was replaced under the guarantee by the rifle maker, repaired and resold to a guy that's very happy with it. That in comparison a several dozen installed by the same guy that have had no problems
McMillians are fine stocks. I recommend them myself and still use two. But even the very expensive Edge stocks have problems. We had one here that split on the inside of the action area. So nobody is perfect. E

A current word of caution abut MPI is to double check his weight estimates and make sure he has upgraded from the postal scale that was in his office.

If it helps you sleep at night.

For the sticks to be "molded in" wouldnt there need to be fiberglass resin over them? Otherwise arent they just attached some how? Just sayin

Doc is indeed responsive and will work with you.

Nope, the finish has been sanded off. The sticks go under the resin
/fill in the back and front,. Also, who ever put the sticks in had to stop were the mold stopped for the BDM cutout and the bolt handle. Why would they have bothered if the the sticks were put in after the stock was out of the mold? It's pretty easy to see this was a BDM stock at one time. The resin is the same color throughout the stock inclucing were it covers the sticks. You can still see traces of it on top of the popcicle sticks. Accu-glass doesn't even come in that color. The defense of this was it was an "ex-empolyee" who did it to make MPI look bad. Supposedly that was from Doc himself. Maybe he was a current employee when it was built. The stock went to Colorado School of Trades where the picture was taken by someone I personally trust. Matt has been a member here for a long time and I've talked to him on the phone about his line of Schmidt and Bender scopes. IMO, he's a straight shooter.

I have heard many horror stories about MPI from years past and have avoided them like the pleague. If they are building a good product now good for them.

Terry

So the fiberglass was sanded off? Ever tried sanding fiberglass?


Personally I've never been one to put much faith in horror stories or rumors. Firsthand experience trumps all

A friend had an MPI... 416 Wby. 12 shots and it started cracking at the tang.

Like I said in my previous post " firsthand experience" trumps all.Lots of friends had---------------

So now you think fiberglass can't be sanded? Ok, but that's only in the world you live in.

I was there and watched it happen.

Who installed "Your Friends "416 WBY. stock ? MPI ? or another shop? Was the stock ordered for the large magnum? Heavy Magnum calibres require heavier lamination, cross pins, etc. If you start with the wrong lamination, improperly bed the receiver, neglect to install cross pins, etc. You run the risk of structural failure. 416 WBY. has serious recoil.

Doc installed and bedded it. To his credit he tried to "fix" it...

Perhaps an 8lb all-up 416 Wby is too much of a test for the MPI... no doubt that argument could be made and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that.

To TC1s post. MPI hand laminates the fiberglass shell of the stock, in halves. The two sides are laminated togeather, top and bottom, with glass cloth and resin. The receiver area is a poured Epoxy resin block, black in color. The bolt handle notch and mag. release notch, are NOT, in the mould. They are filed and bedded in, by the installer. This allows the same blank to be used on right or left hand receivers,regular BDL or DM models. IF the sticks were on the inside of the shell, there would be black epoxy resin between them, and urathane foam behind the ones in the nose. If the fiberglass shell was removed, there would be NO structural strength on that side of the stock. I beleave that the student glued the sticks on, in an attempt to widen the stock through the receiver and forend, as other students have done, in the past. Took photos to document his customization, and got POed when he was dogged by other students and instructors, or was told that he would need a layer of glass cloth over the sticks, to make them stay in place. I will make the offer to exchange the pictured stock, for another MPI stock of his choosing, one with a wider forend, maybe. I will properly pillar bed the stock to his barreled receiver, and let him do the rest. I will cut up the pop Sick-el stock and see just what it is made of. Please pass this info on, to your friend. Thanks

Brad,

was the stock repaired to your "friends" satisfaction?

No.

But I honestly think the 416 is too much for an MPI stock.

Having said that, I don't doubt the theory/explanation on the popsicle stick stock above... makes a lot of sense to me actually.

There are certain rifles that no one makes a lightweight stock for but MPI does, and in that instance I'd not hesitate to use an MPI. But I just don't happen to own any of those rifles so there are other options for me.

Have a great day.

Doc say's it was an ex-employee. You say it was the student. One of you is wrong. Matt said the finish came off and the sticks were there and the picture shows exactly what I decribed. You honestly don,t know if there was a skim coat on top of the sticks with a fiberglass overlay or not. That's only a guess. I see the same fill material on top of the sticks as I do the inletting. But like I said before. If it helps you sleep at night go with that explanation .

I have no problem sleeping nights. I do have a problem with second hand Stories, from somebody that hasn't a clue how the stocks are made. I was around the School of Trades for many years, and saw many such projects and clueless students. I am hands on. Show me the stock. I will cut it up and show what it is made of.The finish you discribe is a black gel coat. It dosn't "come off" If you were to sand or file through the gel coat, you would see the fiberglass cloth material. Doc at MPI had said that IF, now that is IF the sticks were laid in the shell of the stock, it "Could Have Been" a disgruntaled employee. Not that it was one. I have the skill level to epoxy 3/8" rebar into another makers stock, take some lame photos, and slander their product. Not happening. You don't like MPI Stocks. I get it. If you are OK with your actions. Good for you. Life goes on. I have come not to beleave 90% of what I see or read on the Net, because of things like this. You probably beleave the TV show, American Guns, is all real also. I'm done.

The problem with sending the stock to you is you have less credibility than the guy who took the picture in the first place and seem to be nothing more than a MPI cheerleader. As far as your comments about me slandering the company, that's complete bullchit. All I did is comment on the photo's and you went into your MPI is capable of no wrong rant, which BTW is nothing more than a wild guess on your part. I don't believe a lot of the things I read on the net either and you are a perfect example.

That is one hell of an offer. I would trade it in a heartbeat even if I were the one who glued the sticks to it , or not. I know 440dodger personally and he has had more MPI's in his hands than any one I know. FWIW, his fiberglass and rifle building skills are top notch and I have seen happy-customer-o-plenty walk out of his shop.

Get your buddy to send him the hacked one. Your pard will get a professionally bedded, new stock and 440 can cut the hacked one up and finally end the popsicle pizzin match once and for all. I would love to see pix of that thing cut down the middle, then butterflied to tell the real story.

Ouch! that hurt. ;-) Well I can tell when I am talking to a brick wall. I just hope that the other Campfire readers can use their brain and deduce that I do know what I am talking about, as far as fiberglass, stock work is concerned. I have bedded several Hundred MPI Stocks in the past 20+ years. That is what I do. I am not sure what you might do, and won't even try to figure it out. If my comments were constrewed as an " MPI is capable of no wrong rant"
I appologise to the readers of this post, as I know that everybody makes mistakes. I take nothing back as far as the BS posted about the photo. Offer still stands on the stock.

MPI is far and away the biggest piece of [bleep] schit to have ever entered the literal stock market.

BT/DT and still trying to get the smell off my mitts.

Stick,

I asume you TRIED to bed the stock yourself???

The BigStDick is back, under another name. Spreading his hate and discontent. How the hack are you Buddy? I hope you didn't waste one of your limited posts here. I was forwarded your fine Utube video about breaking in a new rifle. Very classy throwing a new Kimber, with scope on the rocks, repeatedly, to "Break it in" Much credibillity You have. Spread the Love Stdick

As you will see, Box-cars posts aren't limited. Hold on, I gotta find my Big Stick post de-coder ring! Well, mabey if I use my "imagination", I'll be able to figure out what he says! Laffin!