I'll be running out to the gunsmith's shop within the next few days to pick up a rifle.While there, I'm going to drop off a #4 SS fluted 8.5 twist Barltein 6mm barrel. Chambering will be 6XC.

The smith has some short actions there,among them a short Rem 700,and a Garcia era Sako,both 308 length.

This is going to be a walking varmint/range rifle,shooting mostly the Amax/Berger type bullets,105-107 range. I will drop it into a sporter weight stock,although I don't know what type yet.

Scope is yet to be determined but may be a Nightforce.

Anyone have any views about which action they might prefer for this rifle?

Thanks in advance.

700

Thanks Scott

You know the kind of rifle I want to end up with....on the heavy side but not too heavy....for walking around, especially out west for varmints mostly,here for woodchucks.Which McMillan would you get for it?

New Haven Classic and drop it in McWinchester Express.
6XC how cool is that....Your gonna have fun.

US Patriot: Good idea, but he doesn't have a NH Classic...I want this rifle to be stupid simple to put together so will select from what he has on hand.

"Fun" is exactly what this rifle will be about....lots of range time,play with turrets,coyotes and woodchucks (selected vermin) here and the west, and maybe girl antelope...

I have a whole club full of 6XC match shooters who order Sierra's by the pallet.....they know their way around the 6XC,and all give it a big thumbs up.

Classic

OK, thanks!

I have had two pre Garcia Sakos's and loved them dearly. Wonderful actions. I would build on that one if I had an opportunity. Actually, I DID and twice .

I'd go Sako as well.

Another vote for the 700.


Travis

I would say a 700.

The "easy button" is green and say's Remington on it. I've never owned a Sako though and have always wanted one

Terry

Oh man......you guys are starting to make it a horserace here!

Larry has a bunch of actions hanging from nails in his shop...this could get interesting! Had this barrel hanging around for over a year now...a real beauty.

I'm gonna stick a big scope on it!

Rem 700 in either the Classic or the McMillan Sporter

Sako. Unless you'd like to trade that to me for my extra FN SPR action.

Rem here....

Sako, no question. I ain't much of a 700 fan, have never owned one, but, have an ultralight 7-08 build happening on the little 600 action, Remmy's finest, IMO.

For medium length rounds, I much prefer the short Classic 70s, slabbed and lightened and have a sts .308Win. in an Edge so modded and it simply rocks.

Sakos are so nicely finished in that vintage and I really prefer integral mount bases for any rifle. JMHO.

Bob the 700 would be a great platform for your 6XC,and with a Bartlein tube attached it should be extremely accurate,and I too would go Classic, the 6XC sounds like alot of fun!

Bob,

Think trigger, fast locktime, cylindrical bedding surface, bases with 20 MOA of downhill for extended range.

I'm a 700 fan but I'm building a 7-08 on a left hand Sako right now. The Sako comes with all the bells and whistles that one usually adds to the 700s

Bob,

My suggestion is that you take your time on this project and look at the actions and actions on rifles that you see. Look not only at what your smith has but at gunshops, shows and the range.

In my view the Rem. 721/722 series and later the 700's have been made as cheap as possible. However the design is ok for getting the assembly straight and square.

Where the 700 design fall short is on aesthetics, function, quality and pride of ownership.

Just look at the bolt face of one with its cheap parts and lack of CRF function. The tacked on bolt lug section, the tacked on bolt handles, the junk safety system.......

Some of the little Sako's have been made really well and there are small mausers out there as well along with falling block single shots. Even a Kimber at least has the design even though they have a screw machine product look to some extent.

Here is a classic made by the late Floyd Butler. I will put this rifle up against any Rem. (700) ever made for desirability.



S99

Liking the sound of this rig! Great chambering.

Who the F are you to say what instills pride in another man?

I'd be way more prideful of a 700 I built myself than I would be for that fine falling block bought off the shelf.

Hell, I'm more proud of my Savage 111 than I am over any 10 rifles bought off the shelf.

Not a thing wrong with either Bob.
Sakos do have an appeal all there own.
Garcia era Sako actions are smooth as silk and excellant.
If your planning on running a hubble, then I'd check out what type of scope mounts you can get for the Sako.
Its going to be limited compared to the 700.
Parts wise, smith wise, and other wise 700s are the Harley Davidson of the rifle action crowd.
No real limit to aftermarket parts and everyone works on them.

Classic stocks are great for hiding recoil.But a 6XC isnt going to kick you enough to matter.If you like the classic pattern then by all mean have at it.But for someone like myself,..im 6'6" ..rather large...The classic stock is built for little people with little tiny hands and no necks.
I perfer the McMillian general purpose HTG...GP/HTG.It can be ordered in edge... bondo patch I have one thats very light.

Just about all my chuck guns have McMillian HBR stocks on them.HBR stands for hunter bench rest.

The rifle above is a 17 Mach IV with a Shilen #5.The forend is 2.25 wide and is flat for riding a sand bag.
If your going to be spending time on the bench with your 6XC this might not be a bad way to go.They will hang with full on BR rigs off a bench.

Never had a problem with them in the field.

Keep us posted Bob.


dave

That is how I would go as well.

I am as you know in the minority that much prefers the Sporter to the Classic. The more open grip fits me better, and I like the pear shaped foreend as compared to the squarish design of the Classic. With that contour barrel I would go standard fill.

AGAIN......you offer absolutely nothing to this thread!

I'd go Ruger with a tang saftey

That'd be the way I'd be thinking as well. Order the Jewell and get it done!

Dober

Run the bolt on both and you will pick the Sako....

WOW!

Guys thanks for all the great advise! Isn't until you do a build like this you realize how much knowledge there is on here!

Geeez my head is spinning! Lots to think about.

Man, I like that stock!

I'd go Remington with a McMillan Compact pattern stock, if that barrel contour will fit; if not, the Classic pattern would be my next choice.

Of those two to select from (Rem or Sako), I would choose the 700.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26367/Product/SHORT-ACTION-RECEIVER-BOLT

Another option, if you are blessed with bountiful resources.

Thank you.
GAP camo in white gray and black.
It grows on you.

dave

Bob,

You do know that the 6XC has the "legs" to do 1000 yard work ...dont you?
Just tryen to help ....

dave

Funny, looks like tri-color green on my laptop screen. Cool none the less.

I am a huge Sako fan. have a few L579's , AII's (what exact action are you thinking about ?).
I am also a huge Rem 700 fan, the biggest difference between the two is the trigger Jewell does not make one for a Sako and the Jewell for the Remington is the standard.............

700 action and get a PT&G bolt

Yes Dave.. guys at the club shoot it, and tell me so. Only thing is I don't know where they shoot around here for practice. Have to look into that.My club only runs to 600.

I may have to move to PA.....

rockchuck I think I want to say it's an "A" series(?)....I know it isn't a pre garcia Sako....one that came after that...I don't know my Sako's as good as I should....but it is a very nice action.

Take a look at the NXS 2.5-10X32, with the 600 yard Velocity reticle. Anything past 600, you can still spin the turret. I have the same scope, with the NP-1 reticle, and love it.

Accurized 700
Pillared Classic
Talley LW's
NXS 2.5-10X32

I feel sorry for whatever gets in front of you...

Al is your rifle a 6XC?

Cheap POS .223 AR.

BobinNH what lenght barrel you going with?

Bob,

You do know that David Tubb uses the 6XC to kick ass at 600 yards ..Dont you?
Just tryen to help ....

dave

MCH the tube will finish up at 24"....I bought it off RinB on here over a year ago.Nice! I didn't have to wait for it!

Dave yeah I know Tubbs uses that case...IIRC he designed it for over the course match shooting and slick feeding from a magazine rifle.Guys and gals at my club shoot it and say barrel life is good;brass excellent but I forget who makes it for Tubbs.Lapua maybe? Also very accurate...I figure it's gotta shoot in that Bartlein tube...

I'm even gonna stick a bipod on it......and turrets!

Mmmm...........John you can't get one of the bases for a Sako, right?

20 MOA base is the way to go Bob.
Not sure at all you can do that with the SAKO.
You could always try one of these from Defiance Machine, Bob.

Smooth as silk.

Buy the time you get done tweaking the 700 you could almost have one.

Only took me about 6 weeks. Ordered in the beginning Dec showed up in the 3 week of Jan.
Are we helpen you Bob?


dave

Dave you can get everything for a Remington!

Oh yeah you guys are a big help of course!LOL! I'll talk to Larry when I get there.....he can get me anything I want.

I hear this huge sucking sound from my pocket...

You in Bangkok again?

Scott: Wish I were....

Bob;
I hope this finds you and yours doing well this fine Saturday morning.

While I might be branded a heretic for this, I'll pass along my story anyway and then slither off to work.

Last year or maybe 2 years back, a friend of a friend brought an older Sako '06 over to see if I could do anything with the trigger, as it would go off when the bolt was closed with anything more than kid glove force.

I could not get it to close safely and have a pull weight of less than about 6lbs or a bit more.

In frustration, I contacted a BC gunsmith who has always and invariably given me good advice - our own greydog. He informed me that the particular series of Sako I was working on did that often.

He said he could set the trigger and quoted a fair price, but advised that the owner replace the factory trigger with a Timney unit that had a better mechanical design.

The Timney took about 10 minutes to fit into the stock and worked flawlessly for me and as far as I've been told - for the owner since.

Anyway, food for thought Bob. Even on a walking varminter one doesn't want it going bang when it hasn't been asked to do so...

Well, work beckons me so I must be gone.

Dwayne

Dwayne thanks for that info....I did not know that stuff about Sako triggers..Mmmm.

If it is an "A" series (probably the AII if it is the 308 size) it is a great action and better made than the Rem 700, still the only problem is the trigger.
You might want to ask your gunsmith if he can tweak it to an acceptable level.

I have Burris dual dovetail bases on a few of my Sako's and by using the signature dual dovetail rings I can easily get an extra 20 MOA for 1000 yard shooting

Defiance Machine!!!!

Never heard that about Sako trigger's but Timney does make one for the A series, but not in the same league as a Jewell for the 700 series

Dammit Jeff....knock it off!

The only reason I'd use a 700 action is for a SA varminter... I think I'd go 700, though it certainly doesn't matter either way... as Dober points out, it's the trigger not the action.

Bob, is the 6xC essentially a 6mm-250/3000?

Bob your comming around...

It can be formed out of 22-250 cases, the neck is expanded to 6mm, the shoulder is pushed back and the body taper is reduced.

I assumed a Sako of that type had the intergral bases and your only optic mounting options would be in ring selection.

With 20 MOA of downhill on a square action and an optic with a proper amount of travel you will be able to dial to 1 mile running the 105 VLD at 3050fps in the thin air around a little town called Medicine Bow.

One 20 MOA revolution will get you to just over 950yds. Such rifles are pretty useful.

450yds with the 105 VLD

475yds

500yds

300yds
\
250yds

Ackleyfan: Well I ain't giving up my pre 64 270's, or my Mashburn... I like them both too much! I have killed a lot of stuff with my black-powder, front stuffer 270's

But this will be a fun rifle,low recoil,lotsa reach,and accurate.



John Burns it'll be hell on wheels near Medicine Bow.....can I hit that rock at 1200 with it?


Funny story following our shoot fest....after you left, Bill,John and I reconoitered that evening,and saw a cow elk below the Eagle, a long ways off and for which John had a tag.......Bill said, "If we had John's 264 Win Mag, we could kill that cow.....!"

What do you guys think?





A New Bullet Makes a Good Cartridge Even Better
The new 115gr 6mm from DTAC is an outstanding projectile--inherently accurate, easy to tune, and slippery in the wind. While perhaps a bit heavy for the 6BR or even 6BR Improved case, it works perfectly in the 6XC case. This combination--115 grainer in 6XC case--is a proven winner. The new 6mm bullet won both the 2004 NRA High Power Long Range Rifle Championship and across-the-course title. Shooting a Tubb 2000 rifle in the Long Range event, David set a record with the first-ever perfect score of 1450/1450. Is the 6XC for you? Consider these credentials:

1. The 6XC won the NRA High Power Rifle Nat'l Championship the last four years.

2. With the 115gr DTAC, the 6XC is now a viable long-range cartridge with ballistics that rival a 6.5-284 shooting a 142gr SMK at 2950 fps. This means that a Cross-course shooter can now use one rifle and one cartridge for all events.

To order DTAC 115gr bullets or 6XC brass, contact Superior Shooting Systems: (806) 323-9488. Bullets cost $18/100 with a 500-ct minimum. Tubb-headstamp 6XC brass runs $32/100

Bob I'd bet you'd rather run the 105 VLD or 105 AMAX. The DTACs seem to be perfectly suited for the guys shooting 1000 yard matches, and not for playing around so much.

When you get tired of this rig, let me know

Tanner yes, I agree on the bullet weights....I just thought the comparison to the 6.5/284 was interesting....I intend to use those 105-107's.

Just got through looking at load data and it seems RL17 gets some high marks for velocity.But sifting through it all,looks like 3000-3100 is in the rnage for those bullets, although from a 24" tube who knows?

You think this will turn out purty good, huh?

This is just one youngster with an inkling of experience talking here, but when I started going through powders in my 243/105gr pill workup, H4350, which works for millions of guys and was recommended to me by a few different fellas, didn't allow me to get the speeds I was after without running into some pressure signs.

I know BradArnett uses '17 in his 243A.I. and that dood can SHOOT! I've never tried it, but a max load of Retumbo and the Amaxes kissing the lands gave me 3025 fps and shot about 1/2 inch at 100. Not comparable to some of the groups you see by the guys here, but it works for me.

looking at the 6XC page on 6br, it looks like they all love H4350 in that cart, and I know Pat uses it in his.

And yeah, I think this dog will hunt

Bob,
I have a whole box of the 115g DTACs if you wouuld like to try some.
In my 1-8 twisted Rock 243 WCF the 105g AMAX out shot the DTAC in the accuracy department by far.
My gun just didnt like them.
The 105 AMAX shoots in just about everything.


dave

Tanner/Dave thanks for the advise.....I got aways to go on this rifle yet....won't be ready for awhile, but Dane I might try those bullets. Right now I want to work the Bergers and the Amax when I get it set up.

Seems like a good place to start....

Tanner do you think I will break 3000 with 107's in a 24" tube and Rl17?

Bases upon what Brad saw with it in a 24" 243AI, I'd wager that you'll see 3k with '17 no problem. Any idea what sorta throat you'll cut in it? Just curious...

What are you thinking for a trigger pull weight?

dave

I've been trying to build something along those lines,sort of. I want to use an X-Treme Shooting Ti action and McM Edge Classic Sporter stock. Other projects keep getting in the way. The first attempt, earlier this winter, is nearing completion with a BAT HR action with integral 20moa rail, Kreiger #19 barrel, Greybull stock, Jewell trigger, and S&B scope. 7 mag. Somehow it kept growing into a dedicated 1K walking rock chuck rifle that can go elk hunting.
I started thinking about it again recently and ended up with an HS Precision PHL in 300 WSM. Damn... why is it so hard to get a simple 6mm something built?
Maybe next year...

Yeah but you're a youngster with a brain....I can tell.

I don't know about the throat....but I will have those bullets up out of the case and into the neck, for sure, which is the reason for the dimensions of the case....I guess it fits a short Remington well. I need to find out what reamer my guy has....Tubbs carries Henrickson's...I understand they don't get any better.

Dave as to trigger weight, I dunno....lighter than what I use on a BG rifle, but I don't like too light...I have a gorilla touch. What do you figure?

I never walk around with anything lighter than two lbs.
Big game wise.

The varmint rigs kinda depends.
I have a full on bag style rifle with the 2 oz. Jewell.
But it never gets shot off of anything other than a front rest and rear bag.
The 243 WCF up top along with the 17 Mach IV have rifle basic triggers set to 1- 1.5.
I never use Jewell triggers for anything other than full on BR rigs except for the bag gun. I just cant see a 3 lever trigger on a "hunting" carry rifle.
The rifle basic trigger has a nice wide trigger shoe that feels good.The jewell is just a wire E.D.M.ed piece of A-2 tool steel thats just straight....you dont get to keep your finger on a 2 ozser for very long.... The basic will save you some doe for the same kinda performance...just sayen.


dave

nice

dave

I don't have a real need to go super light on the trigger....maybe 2.5 pounds sounds fine to me.

Who makes this 20 MOA downhill base John Burns mentioned?

For this kind of build I would prefer a Jewell over a RB, I have both on different rifles set at 3 lbs and the jewell is hands down a nicer trigger, and I expect the rifle would see more bag time than walk around time to me it's a no brainer!

Glen Seekens.
dave

My smith can tweak a RB to a point I actually like it better the a Jewell.
Like the RB trigger shoe better then the Jewell.
Another trigger worth mention is Kelbys new trigger.
Very nice.

dave

That's what I was gonna say, make you sure you can get those long VLDs at the neck/shoulder junction and still kiss the lands! That seems to be the ticket. Man... I need to stop looking at this thread. This is bad bad stuff

+1 for Defiance Machine
there is also Surgeon if you are feeling spendy. If a Remington, make certain the serial number begins with A, B, or C, so I am told by Randy Melvin of Bull Mtn Rifles. If you are in a hurry there are going to be more stocks cut for a Remmy readily available, though the defiance and surgeon have the same footprint and would work after stock fitting.

Bergers Hybrids and LRBTs are not as fussy for seating depth.
The 6.5mm 140g Hybrid will be out very soon.

dave

Snowwalker/Dave: Thanks!

Got a lot of good ideas here..

Bob, if you haven't decided on an action, I would go with the 700..had a Sako break a spring and it bound up the action tighter than a drum...put the rifle out of action for mth.s...

WCH: Thanks for that advise. I went out to the smith yesterday.....he basically said use the Remington action....lots more stock options,bases,everything.He said it might e tough to get a stock in my choice for the Sako,depending what I want.

Turns out the shorty Remington he had there had a 223 bolt face, so I am going to have to order up an action....now my mind is spinning a bit.I might order a Defiance....it won't need blue printing or anything other than the barrel job.
I left the barrel there while I get the parts assembled.

Also dropped off my old 270 for a new tube installation....barrel is just gone and I was in denial for over a year.....

Your really going to like a Defiance, you can get a Rem 700 drop in or their model SA which has a longer barrel tenon,so order your stock accordingly!

The Defiance action with the long tennon is what GAP calls the Templar action.McMillian knows what that is....

Just as a thought Bob.
A M700 in a 222 bolt face is the cats meow for turning it into a 6mmPPC.
Yes never let a good 222 Rem bolt go to waist when you can have to smith open it up to the most accurate round ever.
Need to have a Sako extractor installed as well.
The PPC doesnt have the reach of the 6XC that is true.
But under 300 it has no equal for accuracy.
NONE.
Might be just the ticket for you Bob for a walk around carry rifle, play target rifle that will beat the crap out of the locals at the range with little tiny groups .....just sayen..

dave

That Defiance action is not that good looking to me. It looks like a 700 with an old Firestone Town and Country snow tire on the top of it.



How much is this "walking varminter" going to weigh?

Ackley/Dave: Thanks for the tips here....might be time for one of these ultra-mega PF actions...

If I'm not careful, this thing might turn out pretty nice!

You dont like the M700 or the M700 foot print.
We get it.
Have you ever handled a Defiance?

dave

I think you need to look at the 6.5x47 with the small primer pocket Bob.
It can be necked down to 6mm.
dave

Now that you have to buy an action; Find a doner rifle and part it out.

New Haven M70 Classic
Tubb firing pin
Tubb firing pin spring
Tubb cocking piece
Jewell trigger
McMillan Stock

Have your smith sugar up an action and screw on your barrel. With all your M70 experience it will be a natural fit to hunt with the 6XC in a M70 platform. All the Tubb parts are available at SSS the home of the 6XC.

Many nice custom actions out there but a good custom Winchester still gets a lot of respect from others at the range and can shoot with the best. Also that big Nightforce will be sweet on top of a Winchester Express, Sako Varmint, or Hunter stock...

No one cares what you think...and you have nothing to offer to this thread, you need to get a clue!

Defiance' Rebel med action is really their SA with a long tenon, not sure if the port is any different, Templar is just Gap's house name for their actions and it does have a longer front tenon, also made is a Rebel with a true 700 footprint , for any stock cut for a 700, another option to consider is .062 firing pin over the standard .071 as it helps eliminate pierced primers in higher pressure rounds!

Alot of different options with Defiance!

Liking this idea. Bruce Artus and Kreg Slack a couple yeas back were shooting out to 3000 yards with a .308 A.I. and 264 Win Mag, based off M70s. Artus said they'd pretty much hold a flame to most custom actions...

What's not all that fine about the Defiance design is the spring loaded ejector and the tiny, non CRF, extractor and perhaps more.

On the other hand the finish on it seems to be 'good machinery'. Its just that for a walking varmint rifle I would prefer a neat action like the Sako, or a High Wall.

Back in the 50's I got M70's for serious target competition and hunting along with a 99. Then in the 60's I heard that Rem. was where it was at accuracy wise and I got some 40X's for competition. If I knew now that the bolt handles would fall off from use I would have stayed with the M70 or perhaps some other well made design.

Savage normally I am a CRF guy for my BG hunting out of force of long habit.

But the Defiance is a very well made rifle action of PF design,does not need to be blueprinted,and from what I know of them, make up into a very finely accurate rifle.I am not really concerned that this is not a CRF action...I'm certain it will work just fine.

I fully expect this to be a heavier rifle than my BG rifles, and a bit of weight will not bother me with this one. I fully expect it to go in the 9 pound category,and for the country I have in mind, and the intended use, the extra weight may come in handy.....I want it for hitting little animals at distance and the weight may be helpful for that purpose.

Out west, I will just sling the thing up,big scope and all,and start walking....

With a rifle like you propose on a 'benchrest' looking action it would good to own.

Once in a while we fall into one that will shoot well too. Here is one.



I was up in that spot just today and the wind was light for a change. All I saw were crows however. No coyote answered!

Back in the 50's is when they stopped usuing M70's for serious target competition.

dave

Bob,
So many custom after market parts for the 700, not so many for the Sako.

Yes that is what they claimed, you try and shoot a bullet and hit something after it has been sub-sonic for over a mile...............it does not happen. I have tried it!!

Pretty hit and miss out there, pun intended! But Kreg did kill a groundhog with a 338 Lapua at something like 3000 yards. Not like that's repeatable though

Dave,

The M70's are still used for target competition to this day here in CT.

The matches that I participated in was the Big Bore League at the Blue Trail Range in Middlefield, CT where we fired 25 shots for record at 200 yds from four positions.

At the Yankee League in Southington, CT we shot the same course seven times a year.

Wow 200 yds.....how do you do it?

Savage... Cool looking spot there. Be a nice place to shoot for sure.

My "X Factor" is a crusher out to and beyond 1000 meters with 115 VLD's at 3000fps....The 6XC might just be the best longrange coyote rifle ever. Kills other stuff pretty good too.....grin!

StrayDog: Yes it seems that way. Don't want anyone to think I don't like Rem 700's....I have had quite a few,and have shot lots of varmints with them, mostly woodchucks here in NE with a couple of 22-250's a 220 Swift Classic,and a 222.

Also a 25/06,and a couple of Roberts MR's.I also have a MR that I leave in Wyoming at the ranch as my backup rifle....just have never needed it.I will likely go with a Remington or Defiance for this project.I'm sure either will work fine.

Well....hurry up and get going on it....

Yahoo! Pat to the rescue.....!

That's what I'm talkin about getting! Pat's rifle looks like it has a heavier barrel than mine will.

Geezus Tom I just got started! My brain is addled going through all the damned options!

I'm on it....

Laffin'

Hey did you ever get a .264 Mag you were pondering a bit back?

99, that was a sharp looking single shot in the photo..how about a bit of back ground on the rifle and scope...

Pat, thinking that I may have to get one of those leather cheek pads from you... they look sharp.

yup... i think I am gonna get one of those too.

The rifle is a Winchester High Wall done by the late Floyd Butler of Poultney, VT.

He used a Buhmiller barrel and made the stock and all the smith work. Its chambered for the .219 Improved Zipper. The scope is a 10X Lyman Supertargetspot.

I have used the rifle for about 50 years. Back when there were lots of chucks that rifle got it's share. Most of the shooting was with that marksmans sling from prone or sitting.

Butler link

Are those cheek pads available?

Tom: I've had three 264's, the last about 4 years ago now.No, I haven't bought one recently.

Bob,

If you are considering upgrading to a custom action I would recommend you check out the McMillan G30. Of all the upgrade 700 style actions this one is my favorite for a number of reasons.

1. Highest grade of materials, 17-4 PH stainless for the receiver and 9310 bolt.

2. Rear bridge is dropped down to accept all Rem 700 scope mounts. Most custom actions take the easy way out and keep the rear bridge at full diameter.


3. Large loading port gives better access to the action and makes loading and unloading surer and easier. I am not a fan of the reduced size loading ports in most custom actions as the minimal gain in stiffness is not worth the hassle of loading when I have gloves on or am in a hurry.

4. Functional bolt fluting. In my opinion fluting is done to give dirt and crap a place to go when operating under less than sterile conditions. Every other action I have seen stops the flutes short of the bridges and therefore it serves no purpose but cosmetic and a very minor reduction in action weight. The flutes on the G30 run under the bridges. The flutes are also not cut with a ball nosed endmill but rather with a milling cutter that produces steeper side walls in the flutes and more efficient flute geometry for breaking ice under the bridges.

5. The G30 has an enclosed cocking piece and it will help prevent gas from reaching the shooter in the event of a catastrophic case failure. I had a major case blow up in my G30 264 Win Mag (The one you shot) from a major screw up (bore obstruction) and no gas made it to my face.

6. The best designed primary extraction cam I have seen.

7. The firing pin/cocking piece can quickly be removed from the bolt in the field without tools.

8. Being a push feed action allows the G30 to have the spring-loaded plunger ejector that ejects the case sooner in the cycle than a blade style ejector. The problem with a spring loaded plunger is, very rarely, it can stick under harsh conditions or more commonly if you are running high pressure loads and shaved brass accumulates in the plunger bore. As a back up the G30 also has a blade style ejector that will kick the case out at the end of the stroke if the plunger ever fails.

9. The claw extractor is an improved Sako style.

All this extra costs extra and the G30 is pretty pricey but when you consider the cost of the G30 vs other custom actions you are at least getting something other than a warmed over 700 with a shiny polish on it. (Said in jest and not meaning any disrespect for any one elses favorite action)

On the 20 MOA bases I saw a Weaver 20 MOA rail the other day in a gun store for 30 bucks for the Rem 700. It was aluminum so it will be pretty light weight for a 1 pc rail.

For me I like the Rem 700 for the economics and solid functionality but if I want a better action I need to actually get more than a tighter fitting bolt, smaller loading port and shiny finish. The G30 is darn sure better. At least in my opinion.

John what does the G30 run for bolt to raceway clearances?
And is the bolt and handle 1pc?

Maybe not this particular action but I would definitely go with one of the Rem 700 clones of quality. It's just too easy to pass on, like Mr. Burns suggested.

Ackley,

I have never seen the prints so I don�t know how much clearance is the spec.

I have 4 actions here and they each have about .003 to .004 clearance. All the bolts are within .001 so I would suspect that is the ball park. I don�t want anything tighter in a hunting action.

The bolt body and head is one piece but the handle is brazed on the body.

Just so you know on the Defiance action the bolt body and handle are made from one block of material.
A heck of a lot of machining....
The bolt knob is screwed on.
Nice pictures John.

dave

actually the best custom action is BAT machine. they machine the scope rail AND recoil lug into the action. this makes the action stiff as hell and you have the barrel shank tightened up against a recoil lug that WILL not move. you can pin a 700 lug or have some fancy way of attaching it, but its still not part of the action. not part of the action = not as gooooud. the bat action is a bank vault, it has tight tolerances but the spiral flutes are good at keeping it running. I have shot .5 moa at 500 yards with it with a wind that was gusting 5-6 mph left to right without adjusting my wind holds, vertical spread was 3/4". this is with a #5 barrel. only problem now is I want more bat machine actions.

I've never followed Bat very much.
Seen one with the built on rail and it was very nice.
You know how the bolt handles are attached?
Trying to order a Bat would be a very confusing ordeal.
There web sight is a confusing mess of alphabet soup abbreviations that dont mean dick to anyone.

dave

I agree with the alphabet soup thing... so I just called and asked. Very helpful guys at BAT. In the end I did a little internet research, came up with a few different HR's available, and ordered one from Bruno, shipped the next day.

John that's a great explanation and write-up on the McMillan G30. I didn't know all tose things about it.Thanks for taking the time to post up those pictures.Mmmm....

I did like your rifle real well.....oh, man this is getting complex....

Hard not to like a G30, nice lines and good materials..!

That Mcillan site is NOT a good place to hang out....

Nice stuff, indeed!

John what is the diffence between the primary extraction cam on the G30 and a Defiance or Rem 700?

I completely agree with "CC" on this.............but this is not how Bob started out this thread, thing's have got a bit side tracked since the OP

Bob needs to know all of this stuff ...so he can make a wise decision

Talk about some nice stuff.....really nice rifles. From full customs down to less expensive stuff.
What about a #1 Ruger or Howa action?
Are there too many short comings in them to be acceptable?

rockchuck....yes they have! But that's OK...I'm learning a lot about actions I don't know a thing about,and have never owned.I am pretty much a nuts and bolts rifleman/hunter.....folks posting this info are more knowledgeable than me on this stuff,and I want this rifle to take advantage of the newer advancements.

It's learning experience and all good!

Now that's a new one, two different ejector systems. And the extractor ?
And why do we need two of them.... ?
From what I've seen, the big problem with the Remingtons are their safety and enclosed trigger designs. Have a little crud, carried by some rain water run down into the trigger groups and lots of funny things happen. The bolt release is another thing that I've seen act up.
But what do I know. I'm a big fan of the old 98 Mauser, and the modern CRF Rugers and Winchesters. Those poor dumb target shooters of days gone past just didn't know what they were missing with their well used, pre-64 actions. E

Well Bob, have you made any definite choices yet? That McMillan looks pretty sweet.

Terry

That McMillan action has two ejectors and a side bolt release unlike the Remington 700.

I had no idea that Mcmillan was that nice...

Terry: No, not yet .....still thinking but I do like the McMillan.They are all nice, which is the problem...

Looking through the McMillan website, it occured to me maybe I should just have them build the whole damned rifle on that Bartlein tube.....I mean they have everything I would need right there,and I hate chasing various parts for a rifle.But I have not contacted them to discuss it.

E: I understand what you're saying but I don't want a pre 64 for this rifle...I could have had one easy (there was a 308 action right in the shop),but I want 700 or one of these more modern PF actions for this rifle.

As you know...I love pre 64's but for the LR applications intended here, it is just easier to have a trued up and squared action that way, rather than have to work over a pre 64 for the purpose.

Sako Action all the way with a 30mm LR 4.5x14.
No need for a 20 moa with that scope.

McEdge Classic.


2nd choice, 700 with the new Mcmillan Game Scout stock.