ROT for 22-250? - 24hourcampfire

For bullets 55-65 grains, how would you twist it a 22-250... 1-12", 1-10" or tighter?

Tighter....1 in 8 simply to give you the versatility down the road should you change your mind, or as recently happened to me, change the elevation you are hunting at.

The 1 in 8 will stabilize them all, in all conditions.

The tight twist boys have finally got to me.

1-8. Listen to ingwe.....

Why hamstring it right out of the gate? I'd run a 7...

If you really plan to run a 55 grainer on the low end, I'd twist it 7.

If you plan to sometime use 40 grainers, then 8 twist.

How long are these "55-65" grain bullets? You need a certain amount of RPM to stabilize certain bullets for the utmost accuracy. Since Bullet RPM = MV X 720/Twist Rate (in inches), you can calculate the twist rate required to attain the best accuracy of the pill you are interested in. As an example, I know my 9 twist 22 cal loves around 240,000 RPM's and knowing that, it really depends on how fast you want to push those 22 cal pills Brad. Give me a velocity you are looking at running them and you can easily select the best ROT for the barrel you want to run. Let me give you an example based on the 240,000 RPM threshold I'd like to maintain. Yours may be different, however, it is still easy enough to calculate:

55gr. pill at 3800 fps would require a 1 in 11.5" twist rate barrel to reach the desired RPM of 240,000 to say 260,000. A 1 in 12" twist barrel would require a velocity of around 4,000 fps to properly twist a 55 grain pill. If you increase the twist rate to say a 1 in 10", you will have to drop your velocity down to 3,300 fps to spin that 55 gr. pill to your desired 240,000 RPM.

The question is, how fast are you going to push the 65gr. bullet? Logically, you'd think 3,300-3,400 fps MAX. So a 1 in 10" twist barrel may be you huckleberry in this instance. Hope this helps/makes sense Brad....I wouldn't go 8 or 9 twist unless I was trying to spin 75 or 80gr. pills, but you didn't ask about those heavies. I'm thinking best spin on the bullets you had in mind, as an accuracy standpoint. Keeping in mind that bench rest shooters have learned that using a slightly slower twist rate will increase their accuracy by spinning them at just the right RPM's...

What caused you to decide 240,000 is where it's at? (Besides your particular barrel at 9" twist.)

I'd do 8 Brad. Versatility is a great thing. 40's through 80's safely.

Stuff really dies out of an 8" with 40's. Holy RPM explosion.

I built a 12 twist 22-250 once. I was under the delusion that it would be more accurate with light bullets, and I wanted pelts. I've since proven to myself that fast twists shoot light bullets accurately too...

A 22-250 with 80-90gr bullets would be fun.

Originally Posted by mathman

What caused you to decide 240,000 is where it's at? (Besides your particular barrel at 9" twist.)

It could be anywhere around that figure. 240,000-270,000 etc, just throwing a good round number out there. That may not be where it's at for every bullet, just some of the bullets I've ran in my 9 twist 22 cal. I'm glad you commented, as you see the mathematical aspect of things. I'm sure You know the formula and you may know exactly how fast you like spinning your pills, before they blow to chit or blow your accuracy. This has been discussed quite a bit by bench rest shooters. Those guys have this chit worked down to an exact science. They use big words like Gyroscopic Stability and calculate ROT with the aide of certain other mathematical equations such as the Don Miller formula... Pretty interesting stuff, just throwing it out there....

I took the leap in 1986 and went with a 1 in 12 Shilen #3 @ 25".
Really great accuracy from 45 grain Hornet bullets to the 69 grain Sierra.

This sounds like muzzle loader technology now days, but a 12' or tighter twist will do what you asked .....

Originally Posted by dogcatcher223

Why hamstring it right out of the gate? I'd run a 7...

I just had a Rem Sporter Contour Lilja in 1:8 twist put on my 700 and it shoots 55-75 grain very well. Have not tried anything else but so far, I really like it.

I have one from Pac Nor that is twisted to one in 7.. also put it on what was formerly a 243., so the magazine is longer than a regular 22.250... the 75 to 80 grain bullets can be seated out longer... and the chamber was throated for that...

I have the formula written down around here somewhere... but it can really turn the RPMs on a lighter bullet, with the velocity and the twist...

as long as it is not a super fragile bullet, like an SPSX or Blitz, they will do just fine...an SPSX, even on a hot summer day... if you watch it come out of the barrel.. it looks like your breathe does during cold weather.... just a puff of foggy air, that's the bullet disintegrating in flight, like 10 to 12 inches out of the barrel...

The most accurate bullets out of my 24 inched barrel on a Ruger SA ( Model 77 Mk2) are the 53 V Max, the 75BTHP and the 80 grain A Max...

The fastest velocity and best accuracy with the 75 and 80 grain bullets mentioned above turned out to be not what I originally thought... I was thinking 4350 or the like.. turned out to be 4064....the 80 AMax is clocking 3350 fps..

Here's what some 80 grain A Max look like, loaded to fit what use to be a 243 sized magazine...

[Linked Image]

pretty wicked looking, and shoot just as well....

I've only had the 22-250 in 1-14 and 1-12. Have to say 1-8 is hard to argue with given the amount of positive experience here... makes a lot of sense, and I really can't see any downside.

Thanks Gents.

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

Dennis, thanks for jumping in as the dissenting voice. You make a good case.

Given 55-65 grain window, the too simple solution is snag a 1 in 10" RAR and run it until you are bored with the accuracy. If you need to scratch an itch with a bullet it wont stabilize, you're into it for about the cost of a rebarrel job and can get the bulk of your investment back with a quick posting in the classifieds.

Got my dad a compact 22-250 RAR as a truck gun for Father's Day a couple years ago. It makes reasonably small clusters on paper and he's so bored it's been poking out the window of his suburban as needed ever since he got it.

GE

8

Mine's an 8.

No regrets.

Dave

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

With the more uniform bullets being made these days, using the minimum twist has become much less of a factor. If you're shooting competitive BR you might be able to resolve the difference.

At some time past when the velocity loss question was being discussed I did a calculation to see how much energy the additional angular velocity (think rpm) took away from potential linear velocity. I don't know the precise numbers any more, but the difference was quite small, small enough to be lost in the noise of other factors.

Brad,

One other little factor consider: About 5000 feet of elevation equals one inch more in twist. In other words, living where you do at around 5000, a 1-9 twist will stabilize the same bullets as a 1-8 at 1000 feet or less--and not put as much strain on more fragile bullets.
Which is part of the reason I have a 1-9 on my .223 WSSM.

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

You won't lose any velocity.

Mine shoots the lightweights as well as the heavies.

Not all 55-65gr bullets are equals in 2016 and some do require a faster ROT.

Dave

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

Holy ghost of Field & Stream.

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

It'd actually be more like buying a 4x4 in case you ever wanted to go off road.

1-8" is a win/win. I have a 1-9" .223ai with 11,000+ rounds down it and if I let it get too fouled, 50 grain vmaxes will make a smoke trail. Wipe Out and a bore snake and I'm good for at least 500 more shots. Not even a thing. Of course, if you are dead set on shooting Sierra Blitz or Hornady SX's then I'd lay off the 8 twist.

A 40 or 50 vmax out of an 8 twist certainly makes for more goo flinging. Especially if you shoot them in the babies.

I've heard good things about 40 grain Ballistic Tips too.

Haven't folks also commented that faster twist = more reliable bullet expansion?

The other point is, if Heaven forbid, we have to use monometal bullets at some point, they may be longer. I can get the 53gr TSX to stabilize in my 1 in 14" Princess, but 55gr and heavier TTSX are out of the question?

The .22-250 really isn't a benchrest cartridge anyway, and unless you really want to do something special with 40's, or have a mountain of Blitzkings to shoot, I'd probably just go 1 in 8", myself.

You can always go a gain twist and start at 1-12 and end at 1-8 just saying. Kinda the best of both worlds . Cheers NC

Originally Posted by Brad

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.

Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.

Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.

Dennis, thanks for jumping in as the dissenting voice. You make a good case.

A GREAT case,that nothing is fhuqking funnier,than a STUPID Fhuqk doing their best. Purty good Drag Race on who is the bigger Dumbfhuqk,between you two Do NOTHING Kchunts. Congratulations?!?

8" is THE .224" twist rate,as it'll do it all. I've 22-250's/22-250AI's in 7,8,9 and 14" and the Velocity Myth is ASSUREDLY a fhuqking myth. Hint.

9" Heavy Hart 24" 22-250AI,numbers matching return M40A1,Marty rings/rail,Reupold MK4 M1 16x,yada,yada,yada...the usual.

7" fluted #4 Krieger 23.3" 22-250AI,Classic,PT&G DBM,Marty rail,Warne Maxima's,10x Fixed fhuqker,yada,yada,yada...the usual.

A cartridge can NEVER be any better than it's boolit and 8" swings windows of opportunity open,while the stupid fhuqking schit you Clueless Fhuqks muse,slams 'em shut. Hint.

Mike Rock VS-ish contoured 1-8" SAAMI 22-250,Aadland rings,Kungfu lug,heavy A5,Marty steel bottom,yada,yada,yada....the usual. It'll happily reach 1500yds+with the copious 10x Fixed Fhuqker erector travel alone. Hint.

I'm no fan of the SAAMI 22-250,mainly because I got 'em...though the 22-250AI is a WICKED Sonofabitch. The .435BC 75'Max at 3500fps does it all and then some,as it covers alotta opportunity across a wide spectrum of pursuits/victims. I'd much rather 223AI as a mainstay than either the 22-250 SAAMI Suck or 22-250AI Bad Bitch. Same goes Swift,CHeetah,etc...again mainly because I've got 'em all. I shoot 223AI in 7,8,9,10,12 and 14",if only for starters. Hint.

In ascending order,so you can say you've "seen" the twist rates. Laughing!

[Linked Image]

Just carved the Heavy 270 1-7.75" Benchmark MTU 19.5-incher outta it's shipping box and gotta kiss,find pressure and rock on with it...then rattle can it. I reckon Lever' will scoot 105's at an easy 2550fps in that long tube and I reckon I'll go Hornie HPBT right outta the fhuqking gate,if only for conversation. My light one(1-8" Bartlein) is 18.5-inches long. I'd rather have a fast twist 270 than a SAAMI 22-250 and again mainly because I have 'em all.

The 75A-Max at 3500fps ala 22-250AI,drifts a "whopping" 9 inches more at the 1000yd line,than my 1-8" Brux LFB 6-284 or 1-8" Brux Six Twat-Six with their 105 Hornie HPBT's at 3300fps. The 105 arrives the scene at 1573fps,which is a "whopping" 70fps faster than the 22-250AI/75'Max melding. Nod your head,like you understand. Hint.

Pass the 8" 223AI for Utility and pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess,while a guess is your one and only move.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!..................

Originally Posted by Brad

For bullets 55-65 grains, how would you twist it a 22-250... 1-12", 1-10" or tighter?

For your needs 1-10" is plenty, for me I would do any .22-250 would be a 1-7.5" because I think the 90 gr Bergers would be excellent on antelope!!!!!

Brad, I'll sell you a 12 twist pacnor tube chambered in 22-250ai...low round count. Rem contour...

Stick,

BDL's? Model 7? Talley's? Leupy's?

Wow, you HAVE had the luxury of not being forced to guess....

Just how old is that picture?

Most guys around here would have had their panties all wadded up at the prospect of the threaded bbl...

Stick and Travis let's say a guy was building a 22-250 for strictly coyote calling and he saves hides so he was going to only ever shoot 40s- 55s because the heavy VLD bullets aren't the best on a hide. You guys still think the 1-8" is the way to roll

I ran a 22-250 ackley with an 8 twist and that was a hell of a lot of fun stretching its legs with a 75 grain amax

Jeezus if you're shooting for skins use a 223 with FMJs.

How much garder can a coyote be harder to kill than a dingo is?

Never had a coyote eat my baby, so I'm sure dingos are tougher.

Originally Posted by bobnob17

Jeezus if you're shooting for skins use a 223 with FMJs.

How much garder can a coyote be harder to kill than a dingo is?

FMJ's suck.

Dave

Originally Posted by laker

Stick and Travis let's say a guy was building a 22-250 for strictly coyote calling and he saves hides so he was going to only ever shoot 40s- 55s because the heavy VLD bullets aren't the best on a hide. You guys still think the 1-8" is the way to roll

I ran a 22-250 ackley with an 8 twist and that was a hell of a lot of fun stretching its legs with a 75 grain amax

I would still build an 8 twist.

There's no reason not to IMO. Mine shoots 40's and 50's just as well as the 75's and they fling goo more better.

Dave

Originally Posted by Big Stick

8" is THE .224" twist rate,as it'll do it all. ....

...

A cartridge can NEVER be any better than it's boolit and 8" swings windows of opportunity open, ....

...

I'd much rather 223AI as a mainstay ....

...

Pass the 8" 223AI for Utility ....

Answer for ROT and a hint if you ain't dead set.

If 8" twist was all that and a bag of chips there would be no need for any other twist rates. I have had my share of fast twist barrels and if they are not needed, they are not better. We have choices because no one twist is best for everything.

Why anyone would intentionally set out to barrel a 22-250 sporting rifle to shoot long, heavy VLDs is beyond me. An AR-15 that you need to stretch to 600 yards is a different story.

Derrek Martin of Accuracy Speaks and very accomplished High Power shooter used to say that 10 twist will stabilize anything you can fit in a magazine. More twist than that and you need to be single loading. Might not apply to the green tips but they suck for accuracy anyway.

I like 1-8" on 22 centerfires, mainly for the 75gr bullets. They'll also shoot 55-60gr stuff no problem. Why not?

Do you really not understand the merits of a fast twist 22-250 flinging high BC bullets?

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

If 8" twist was all that and a bag of chips there would be no need for any other twist rates. I have had my share of fast twist barrels and if they are not needed, they are not better. We have choices because no one twist is best for everything.

Why anyone would intentionally set out to barrel a 22-250 sporting rifle to shoot long, heavy VLDs is beyond me. An AR-15 that you need to stretch to 600 yards is a different story.

Derrek Martin of Accuracy Speaks and very accomplished High Power shooter used to say that 10 twist will stabilize anything you can fit in a magazine. More twist than that and you need to be single loading. Might not apply to the green tips but they suck for accuracy anyway.

WOW

Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.

I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?

Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?

Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!

That's why there are choices in twist rates.

My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.

I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?

Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?

Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!

That's why there are choices in twist rates.

My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!

Psssst

http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/

David

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.

I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?

Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?

Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!

That's why there are choices in twist rates.

My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!

Bringing up match shooting is a total cop out as it's won by very few cartridges that start with a 6, by a bunch of tail chasers shooting paper.

I mentioned I had blown apart 50 Vmax/Zmax in my 1-9" .223ai and I should have pointed out that the bore/throat is so rough I can feel it with a patch for about 3 inches. I have not blown apart any 40 Vmax with it but I have only shot fire form loads and they are only pushing 3,850 or there abouts. The first 10,000 rounds down the tube were mostly 40's at 3,700-3,750.

My 1-8" twist .223ai launches 40's at 4,030 and hasn't blown any up. It's a 3 groove Pacnor on a Montana and shoots like a varmint gun.

The old misnomers about twist rates are easily put to rest if you'd just get outside your comfort zone. Try something new and get the best of all possible worlds.

And quit letting your wife drive your truck....

my old speer reloading manual #10 from the 70's , lists a 1-10 twist as a fast twist in 223,ands what is needed to spin their heavy bullet at the time,IIRC,a 69 gr.
our ruger RAR 22-250 with a 1-10 twist shoots the barnes
62 just fine,and our RAR 223 with a 1-8 shoots the 80 nosler pretty well also.
Of course,i don't get to shoot at deer at much over 100 yartds,so I have a limited sample,but Im happy with our options.
of course the cz 223 we had before with 1-12 twist worked fine with the 53 gr barnes also.I wanted a bullet that would leave a hole in both sides ,something the smaller version didn't always do,thats why we got the faster twist barrels.

I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist.

My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine?

Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases!

Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by dogcatcher223

I built a 12 twist 22-250 once. I was under the delusion that it would be more accurate with light bullets, and I wanted pelts. I've since proven to myself that fast twists shoot light bullets accurately too...

A 22-250 with 80-90gr bullets would be fun.

I have had the opposite experience. Could not get great accuracy with 40 grain bullets in a 1:8" twist.

This is the 1:8 twist. It is mainly used as a truck gun for deer, yotes, hogs, etc. Shooting 62 grain TSXs out of this really is fun. It weighs about 7.5 pounds as she sits. Very handy.

Originally Posted by Turk1961

I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist.

My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine?

Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases!

Thanks for your help.

I personally wouldn't mess with that 600. Keep your eyes out for a few cheap 700's while you are working on wearing out the others.

Hey Dennis,

Be careful here...a lot of folks on this board get their feathers ruffled when you start using common sense and logic. You should do a public service for the gun community and also browbeat everyone around you to only shoot fast twist barrels. Better yet, demand Kreiger, Bartlein Brux, etc to refuse service to any of the idiots that can't see the light and try to order 1-12 or, God forbid, a 1-14 twist 22cal barrel blanks.

People pretend to believe in capitalism and market choice and then they suddenly forget the benefits of it when it could most benefit them.

I'm off to chase my tail at a 600 yard benchrest match tomorrow. I'm actually gonnna use a 1-8 twist 6mm because it is the correct tool for the job. When it comes time to shoot varmints in a few weeks I'm gonna use a slow twist 22 caliber...which will again be the correct tool for the job. There is no ONE right twist. Pick the bullet you want to shoot and buy a barrel with the optimum twist to shoot it.

JP

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.

I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?

Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?

Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!

That's why there are choices in twist rates.

My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!

Also, where do you'all think the vld bullet design came from? It was developed by the longrange target shooting community in their quest for better long range accuracy. I for one am grateful for the benchrest tail chaisers that came before me and those who continue to spend their time and thousands of dollars experimenting so the shooting and HUNTING community can have better products in the future.

JP

And you'll be shooting a 6 Dasher like most of the others right?

See many .22's on the line? .22-250's even?

My point with the tail chaser comment, is that match shooting funnels down to a very small focus on components/cartridges/calibers. Brux is winning and everyone is buying Brux. Berger Hybrids keep winning and everyone is chasing those down. It's a race the .22-250 won't be winning anytime soon because it won't even get the nod.

Is there any down side to fast twist barrels with light for caliber bullets other than the already mentioned light jacketed sx/blitz or rough bore blow ups? I say no as I have not seen it in the least bit. I've heard lots of rumors that fast twists are detrimental to accuracy, but they remain nothing more than rumors in my book because I've seen it with my own eyes.

I thought you were gonna give in to the monkeys?

Giving in to monkeys

Originally Posted by JMP

Hey Dennis,

Be careful here...a lot of folks on this board get their feathers ruffled when you start using common sense and logic. You should do a public service for the gun community and also browbeat everyone around you to only shoot fast twist barrels. Better yet, demand Kreiger, Bartlein Brux, etc to refuse service to any of the idiots that can't see the light and try to order 1-12 or, God forbid, a 1-14 twist 22cal barrel blanks.

People pretend to believe in capitalism and market choice and then they suddenly forget the benefits of it when it could most benefit them.

I'm off to chase my tail at a 600 yard benchrest match tomorrow. I'm actually gonnna use a 1-8 twist 6mm because it is the correct tool for the job. When it comes time to shoot varmints in a few weeks I'm gonna use a slow twist 22 caliber...which will again be the correct tool for the job. There is no ONE right twist. Pick the bullet you want to shoot and buy a barrel with the optimum twist to shoot it.

JP

Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.

I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?

Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?

Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!

That's why there are choices in twist rates.

My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!

Man, where do they dig up you fossils?

Originally Posted by Turk1961

I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist.

My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine?

Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases!

Thanks for your help.

Let the bolt face be your guide.

Or buy donors.

Dave

I getta kick outta DUMBfhuqks doing their "BEST".

None of these Day Dreaming Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqks cite rifle "particulars",let along mounts/glass and the like...yet they all have Secret Squirrel "findings". FUNNY schit!!!

Pardon my having EVERY barrel Maker thus far cited and more than a "few" that ain't. Hint.

308's and '06's have been wayyyyyyyyyyyy "over" twisted for many decades(amongst other Window Licker mainstays),in both Competition and in the Field. Hint.

A 20" 1-12" Three Oh NOT So Great will pinwheel 208 A-Max along The Milford in Winter. Hint. Google it.

1-8" .224" is THE twist rate.

Hint.......................

Originally Posted by mmgravy

1-8. Listen to ingwe.....

This

Originally Posted by Turk1961

Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine?

First, that 22-250 magazine is very short. My 22-250AI 50gr. loads seated for a 0 freebore chamber are still .050" too long for the 788 magazine. Years ago when I did have a factory 22-250, bullets had to be seated very deep and jump was very long.

Also try loading a formed 22-250AI case into the magazine, it might not fit anyway. I'd planned to AI my .223/788, but the magazine ribs are just far enough back to be where the shoulder is and brass won't go in. Could be the same way with the 22-250. If it did fit, that magazine is designed for a case with lots of taper and the AI blows out to have very little......I wouldn't expect it to feed properly without some work. To me it wouldn't matter anyway because of the seating depth problem. Doing a 22-250AI on one of those guns, I'd start with the 6mm/308 length action.