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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Do you really not understand the merits of a fast twist 22-250 flinging high BC bullets?
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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If 8" twist was all that and a bag of chips there would be no need for any other twist rates. I have had my share of fast twist barrels and if they are not needed, they are not better. We have choices because no one twist is best for everything.
Why anyone would intentionally set out to barrel a 22-250 sporting rifle to shoot long, heavy VLDs is beyond me. An AR-15 that you need to stretch to 600 yards is a different story.
Derrek Martin of Accuracy Speaks and very accomplished High Power shooter used to say that 10 twist will stabilize anything you can fit in a magazine. More twist than that and you need to be single loading. Might not apply to the green tips but they suck for accuracy anyway. WOW
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
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Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.
I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?
Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?
Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!
That's why there are choices in twist rates.
My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
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Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.
I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?
Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?
Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!
That's why there are choices in twist rates.
My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car! Psssst http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/David
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312 |
Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.
I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?
Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?
Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!
That's why there are choices in twist rates.
My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car! Bringing up match shooting is a total cop out as it's won by very few cartridges that start with a 6, by a bunch of tail chasers shooting paper. I mentioned I had blown apart 50 Vmax/Zmax in my 1-9" .223ai and I should have pointed out that the bore/throat is so rough I can feel it with a patch for about 3 inches. I have not blown apart any 40 Vmax with it but I have only shot fire form loads and they are only pushing 3,850 or there abouts. The first 10,000 rounds down the tube were mostly 40's at 3,700-3,750. My 1-8" twist .223ai launches 40's at 4,030 and hasn't blown any up. It's a 3 groove Pacnor on a Montana and shoots like a varmint gun. The old misnomers about twist rates are easily put to rest if you'd just get outside your comfort zone. Try something new and get the best of all possible worlds. And quit letting your wife drive your truck....
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,514
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
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my old speer reloading manual #10 from the 70's , lists a 1-10 twist as a fast twist in 223,ands what is needed to spin their heavy bullet at the time,IIRC,a 69 gr.
our ruger RAR 22-250 with a 1-10 twist shoots the barnes
62 just fine,and our RAR 223 with a 1-8 shoots the 80 nosler pretty well also.
Of course,i don't get to shoot at deer at much over 100 yartds,so I have a limited sample,but Im happy with our options.
of course the cz 223 we had before with 1-12 twist worked fine with the 53 gr barnes also.I wanted a bullet that would leave a hole in both sides ,something the smaller version didn't always do,thats why we got the faster twist barrels.
Last edited by fluffy; 05/12/16.
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[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist. My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine? Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases!  Thanks for your help.
NRA Life Member
TSRA Life Member
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
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I built a 12 twist 22-250 once. I was under the delusion that it would be more accurate with light bullets, and I wanted pelts. I've since proven to myself that fast twists shoot light bullets accurately too...
A 22-250 with 80-90gr bullets would be fun. I have had the opposite experience. Could not get great accuracy with 40 grain bullets in a 1:8" twist.
NRA Patron
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
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![[Linked Image]](http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx199/jrs3/Mobile%20Uploads/20160514_125909_zpsgxw2axup.jpg) This is the 1:8 twist. It is mainly used as a truck gun for deer, yotes, hogs, etc. Shooting 62 grain TSXs out of this really is fun. It weighs about 7.5 pounds as she sits. Very handy.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312 |
I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist. My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine? Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases! Thanks for your help. I personally wouldn't mess with that 600. Keep your eyes out for a few cheap 700's while you are working on wearing out the others.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 64
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2012
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Hey Dennis, Be careful here...a lot of folks on this board get their feathers ruffled when you start using common sense and logic. You should do a public service for the gun community and also browbeat everyone around you to only shoot fast twist barrels. Better yet, demand Kreiger, Bartlein Brux, etc to refuse service to any of the idiots that can't see the light and try to order 1-12 or, God forbid, a 1-14 twist 22cal barrel blanks. People pretend to believe in capitalism and market choice and then they suddenly forget the benefits of it when it could most benefit them. I'm off to chase my tail at a 600 yard benchrest match tomorrow. I'm actually gonnna use a 1-8 twist 6mm because it is the correct tool for the job. When it comes time to shoot varmints in a few weeks I'm gonna use a slow twist 22 caliber...which will again be the correct tool for the job. There is no ONE right twist. Pick the bullet you want to shoot and buy a barrel with the optimum twist to shoot it. JP Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.
I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?
Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?
Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!
That's why there are choices in twist rates.
My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car!
Last edited by JMP; 05/14/16.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Also, where do you'all think the vld bullet design came from? It was developed by the longrange target shooting community in their quest for better long range accuracy. I for one am grateful for the benchrest tail chaisers that came before me and those who continue to spend their time and thousands of dollars experimenting so the shooting and HUNTING community can have better products in the future.
JP
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312 |
And you'll be shooting a 6 Dasher like most of the others right?
See many .22's on the line? .22-250's even?
My point with the tail chaser comment, is that match shooting funnels down to a very small focus on components/cartridges/calibers. Brux is winning and everyone is buying Brux. Berger Hybrids keep winning and everyone is chasing those down. It's a race the .22-250 won't be winning anytime soon because it won't even get the nod.
Is there any down side to fast twist barrels with light for caliber bullets other than the already mentioned light jacketed sx/blitz or rough bore blow ups? I say no as I have not seen it in the least bit. I've heard lots of rumors that fast twists are detrimental to accuracy, but they remain nothing more than rumors in my book because I've seen it with my own eyes.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,312 |
I thought you were gonna give in to the monkeys? Giving in to monkeys
Last edited by Higbean; 05/14/16.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Hey Dennis, Be careful here...a lot of folks on this board get their feathers ruffled when you start using common sense and logic. You should do a public service for the gun community and also browbeat everyone around you to only shoot fast twist barrels. Better yet, demand Kreiger, Bartlein Brux, etc to refuse service to any of the idiots that can't see the light and try to order 1-12 or, God forbid, a 1-14 twist 22cal barrel blanks. People pretend to believe in capitalism and market choice and then they suddenly forget the benefits of it when it could most benefit them. I'm off to chase my tail at a 600 yard benchrest match tomorrow. I'm actually gonnna use a 1-8 twist 6mm because it is the correct tool for the job. When it comes time to shoot varmints in a few weeks I'm gonna use a slow twist 22 caliber...which will again be the correct tool for the job. There is no ONE right twist. Pick the bullet you want to shoot and buy a barrel with the optimum twist to shoot it. JP Yeh, a 22-250 pushing the highest BC bullet (.421) specified for 1-8" twist @ 3100-3200 sure makes a lot of sense when you can push a high BC 6mm bullet at only a 100 fps less with a BC of .536.
I wonder how many unlimited matches are won with 22 caliber centerfires?
Wonder how many BR matches are won with 22 shooting an 8 twist barrel?
Wonder how well at 40 or 50 grain Vmax or Blitzking will hold together at 360,000 RPM? What about using a match bullet like Berger!
That's why there are choices in twist rates.
My wife hates trying to park my F250 crew-cab long bed at the grocery store. I hate trying to put 2 bales of hay in her car! Man, where do they dig up you fossils?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
I would like this group to give me their opinion about what I should do. I have two SS .223 barrels. A 9 twist Walther NW Varmint and a 7 twist Lilja Fluted #4. Today, I don’t have actions for these barrels but I do have rifles I could re-barrel. I have a Remington 600 in .223 REM 10 twist with a full stock. Also I have two Remington 788s in 22-250 with the standard 14 twist. My plan was to shoot these rifles as is and use these barrels when they are needed. Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine? Should I leave them as is? Should I AI them now? Should I AI them when I re-barrel? Should I not AI them when I re-barrel? Other than case trimming, is AI worth it? Keep in mind that I have plenty of grandkids that I am teaching to reload and that includes trimming cases! Thanks for your help. Let the bolt face be your guide. Or buy donors. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,501
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,501 |
I getta kick outta DUMBfhuqks doing their "BEST".
None of these Day Dreaming Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqks cite rifle "particulars",let along mounts/glass and the like...yet they all have Secret Squirrel "findings". FUNNY schit!!!
Pardon my having EVERY barrel Maker thus far cited and more than a "few" that ain't. Hint.
308's and '06's have been wayyyyyyyyyyyy "over" twisted for many decades(amongst other Window Licker mainstays),in both Competition and in the Field. Hint.
A 20" 1-12" Three Oh NOT So Great will pinwheel 208 A-Max along The Milford in Winter. Hint. Google it.
1-8" .224" is THE twist rate.
Hint.......................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
1-8. Listen to ingwe..... This
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
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Now I am thinking I should make a .223AI out of the 600 and a 22-250AI out of one of the 788s. Then when they shoot out, use the Lilja on the 600 and the Walther on one of the 788s. The 22-250AI should feed out of the 788 clip without a problem. But will the .223AI feed OK from the 600 magazine?
First, that 22-250 magazine is very short. My 22-250AI 50gr. loads seated for a 0 freebore chamber are still .050" too long for the 788 magazine. Years ago when I did have a factory 22-250, bullets had to be seated very deep and jump was very long. Also try loading a formed 22-250AI case into the magazine, it might not fit anyway. I'd planned to AI my .223/788, but the magazine ribs are just far enough back to be where the shoulder is and brass won't go in. Could be the same way with the 22-250. If it did fit, that magazine is designed for a case with lots of taper and the AI blows out to have very little......I wouldn't expect it to feed properly without some work. To me it wouldn't matter anyway because of the seating depth problem. Doing a 22-250AI on one of those guns, I'd start with the 6mm/308 length action.
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