|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12 |
I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.
Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.
Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'. With the more uniform bullets being made these days, using the minimum twist has become much less of a factor. If you're shooting competitive BR you might be able to resolve the difference. At some time past when the velocity loss question was being discussed I did a calculation to see how much energy the additional angular velocity (think rpm) took away from potential linear velocity. I don't know the precise numbers any more, but the difference was quite small, small enough to be lost in the noise of other factors.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,213 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,213 Likes: 26 |
Brad,
One other little factor consider: About 5000 feet of elevation equals one inch more in twist. In other words, living where you do at around 5000, a 1-9 twist will stabilize the same bullets as a 1-8 at 1000 feet or less--and not put as much strain on more fragile bullets.
Which is part of the reason I have a 1-9 on my .223 WSSM.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.
Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.
Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'. You won't lose any velocity. Mine shoots the lightweights as well as the heavies. Not all 55-65gr bullets are equals in 2016 and some do require a faster ROT. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.
Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.
Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'. Holy ghost of Field & Stream.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,342 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,342 Likes: 3 |
Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'.
It'd actually be more like buying a 4x4 in case you ever wanted to go off road. 1-8" is a win/win. I have a 1-9" .223ai with 11,000+ rounds down it and if I let it get too fouled, 50 grain vmaxes will make a smoke trail. Wipe Out and a bore snake and I'm good for at least 500 more shots. Not even a thing. Of course, if you are dead set on shooting Sierra Blitz or Hornady SX's then I'd lay off the 8 twist. A 40 or 50 vmax out of an 8 twist certainly makes for more goo flinging. Especially if you shoot them in the babies.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,892 Likes: 12 |
I've heard good things about 40 grain Ballistic Tips too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Haven't folks also commented that faster twist = more reliable bullet expansion?
The other point is, if Heaven forbid, we have to use monometal bullets at some point, they may be longer. I can get the 53gr TSX to stabilize in my 1 in 14" Princess, but 55gr and heavier TTSX are out of the question?
The .22-250 really isn't a benchrest cartridge anyway, and unless you really want to do something special with 40's, or have a mountain of Blitzkings to shoot, I'd probably just go 1 in 8", myself.
Last edited by tex_n_cal; 05/11/16. Reason: add last sentence
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871 |
You can always go a gain twist and start at 1-12 and end at 1-8 just saying. Kinda the best of both worlds . Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,655 Likes: 12
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,655 Likes: 12 |
I will disagree with most here. Factory twists have been 1-14 for that past 60 years. All of a sudden we need 1-8 twist?? I don't think so. As a rule, a rifle is most accurate with the minimum twist that will stabilize the given bullet. You said 55-65 grain bullets. They don't need 1-8 twist to stabilize them. There is a downside to overtwisting. You give up velocity, you give up accuracy and you run the risk of prematurely rupturing bullet jackets. If you are going to run 80 grain VLDs- go for the 8 twist. If you are really going to stick with 55-65 use a twist that will get you there but not beyond. If I were building that rifle, I would know that a 1-12 twist will absolutely stabilize 55-65 grain bullets. If available, I might err to 1-11" twist but certainly no need to go faster.
Folks will try to razzle-dazzle you with their anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I think they would have had better results with less twist and there is no way to know unless you have done it. I certainly don't see the point in building a 22-250 to shoot 80 and 90 grain bullets when a 6mm shooting 105 will be MUCH more wind resistant and have much better downrange performance. Unless you are shooting matches in some discipline that requires you to use a 22 it is a waste to twist it so fast.
Twisting a 22-250 to 1-8 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets is like buying an F350 diesel for you daily driver to the office 'just in case you have to pull a trailer some time'. Dennis, thanks for jumping in as the dissenting voice. You make a good case. A GREAT case,that nothing is fhuqking funnier,than a STUPID Fhuqk doing their best. Purty good Drag Race on who is the bigger Dumbfhuqk,between you two Do NOTHING Kchunts. Congratulations?!? 8" is THE .224" twist rate,as it'll do it all. I've 22-250's/22-250AI's in 7,8,9 and 14" and the Velocity Myth is ASSUREDLY a fhuqking myth. Hint. 9" Heavy Hart 24" 22-250AI,numbers matching return M40A1,Marty rings/rail,Reupold MK4 M1 16x,yada,yada,yada...the usual. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/zQViGI.jpg) 7" fluted #4 Krieger 23.3" 22-250AI,Classic,PT&G DBM,Marty rail,Warne Maxima's,10x Fixed fhuqker,yada,yada,yada...the usual. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/673/8qUNZd.jpg) A cartridge can NEVER be any better than it's boolit and 8" swings windows of opportunity open,while the stupid fhuqking schit you Clueless Fhuqks muse,slams 'em shut. Hint. Mike Rock VS-ish contoured 1-8" SAAMI 22-250,Aadland rings,Kungfu lug,heavy A5,Marty steel bottom,yada,yada,yada....the usual. It'll happily reach 1500yds+with the copious 10x Fixed Fhuqker erector travel alone. Hint. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/921/GL5dbJ.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/922/X2zRtI.jpg) I'm no fan of the SAAMI 22-250,mainly because I got 'em...though the 22-250AI is a WICKED Sonofabitch. The .435BC 75'Max at 3500fps does it all and then some,as it covers alotta opportunity across a wide spectrum of pursuits/victims. I'd much rather 223AI as a mainstay than either the 22-250 SAAMI Suck or 22-250AI Bad Bitch. Same goes Swift,CHeetah,etc...again mainly because I've got 'em all. I shoot 223AI in 7,8,9,10,12 and 14",if only for starters. Hint. In ascending order,so you can say you've "seen" the twist rates. Laughing! ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/2R8G9532.jpg) Just carved the Heavy 270 1-7.75" Benchmark MTU 19.5-incher outta it's shipping box and gotta kiss,find pressure and rock on with it...then rattle can it. I reckon Lever' will scoot 105's at an easy 2550fps in that long tube and I reckon I'll go Hornie HPBT right outta the fhuqking gate,if only for conversation. My light one(1-8" Bartlein) is 18.5-inches long. I'd rather have a fast twist 270 than a SAAMI 22-250 and again mainly because I have 'em all. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/922/X3akCs.jpg) The 75A-Max at 3500fps ala 22-250AI,drifts a "whopping" 9 inches more at the 1000yd line,than my 1-8" Brux LFB 6-284 or 1-8" Brux Six Twat-Six with their 105 Hornie HPBT's at 3300fps. The 105 arrives the scene at 1573fps,which is a "whopping" 70fps faster than the 22-250AI/75'Max melding. Nod your head,like you understand. Hint. Pass the 8" 223AI for Utility and pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess,while a guess is your one and only move. Bless your heart. Laughing!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,538
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,538 |
For bullets 55-65 grains, how would you twist it a 22-250... 1-12", 1-10" or tighter? For your needs 1-10" is plenty, for me I would do any .22-250 would be a 1-7.5" because I think the 90 gr Bergers would be excellent on antelope!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
Brad, I'll sell you a 12 twist pacnor tube chambered in 22-250ai...low round count. Rem contour...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,342 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,342 Likes: 3 |
Stick, BDL's? Model 7? Talley's? Leupy's? Wow, you HAVE had the luxury of not being forced to guess.... Just how old is that picture?  Most guys around here would have had their panties all wadded up at the prospect of the threaded bbl...
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,723
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,723 |
Stick and Travis let's say a guy was building a 22-250 for strictly coyote calling and he saves hides so he was going to only ever shoot 40s- 55s because the heavy VLD bullets aren't the best on a hide. You guys still think the 1-8" is the way to roll
I ran a 22-250 ackley with an 8 twist and that was a hell of a lot of fun stretching its legs with a 75 grain amax
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705 |
Jeezus if you're shooting for skins use a 223 with FMJs.
How much garder can a coyote be harder to kill than a dingo is?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Never had a coyote eat my baby, so I'm sure dingos are tougher.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Jeezus if you're shooting for skins use a 223 with FMJs.
How much garder can a coyote be harder to kill than a dingo is? FMJ's suck. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Stick and Travis let's say a guy was building a 22-250 for strictly coyote calling and he saves hides so he was going to only ever shoot 40s- 55s because the heavy VLD bullets aren't the best on a hide. You guys still think the 1-8" is the way to roll
I ran a 22-250 ackley with an 8 twist and that was a hell of a lot of fun stretching its legs with a 75 grain amax I would still build an 8 twist. There's no reason not to IMO. Mine shoots 40's and 50's just as well as the 75's and they fling goo more better. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6 |
8" is THE .224" twist rate,as it'll do it all. ....
...
A cartridge can NEVER be any better than it's boolit and 8" swings windows of opportunity open, ....
...
I'd much rather 223AI as a mainstay ....
...
Pass the 8" 223AI for Utility ....
Answer for ROT and a hint if you ain't dead set.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2 |
If 8" twist was all that and a bag of chips there would be no need for any other twist rates. I have had my share of fast twist barrels and if they are not needed, they are not better. We have choices because no one twist is best for everything.
Why anyone would intentionally set out to barrel a 22-250 sporting rifle to shoot long, heavy VLDs is beyond me. An AR-15 that you need to stretch to 600 yards is a different story.
Derrek Martin of Accuracy Speaks and very accomplished High Power shooter used to say that 10 twist will stabilize anything you can fit in a magazine. More twist than that and you need to be single loading. Might not apply to the green tips but they suck for accuracy anyway.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,251 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,251 Likes: 1 |
I like 1-8" on 22 centerfires, mainly for the 75gr bullets. They'll also shoot 55-60gr stuff no problem. Why not?
Now with even more aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
556 members (1OntarioJim, 10gaugeman, 1936M71, 10Glocks, 1minute, 2500HD, 60 invisible),
2,468
guests, and
1,298
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,881
Posts18,518,198
Members74,020
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
