So I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a lightweight, deer/hog hunting rifle.
I live in east Texas, and I've been looking at having Hill Country Rifles build me one of their "Sheep Rifles".
It would be a left hand Stiller Predator action, a McMillan Hunters EDGE or Remington Sporter in EDGE fill with a #2 contour barrel at 23"-24" in either .270 Win. or .280 Rem.

OR

A lefty NULA Model 24. Same barrel contour and length. Same cartridge choices.

The 2 options are very close in price, and surprisingly close in finished weight.

The HCR option would finish at about 6 1/4 lbs, and the NULA is listed at about 5 3/4 lbs.

I know Melvin's rifles have a reputation for being very accurate, but the HCR build would come with a 1/2" 3 shot guarantee with factory ammo.

Anyone have an opinion on which way to go and why?

I don't recall: what didn't work for you with the 30-06 from Melvin?

Sure did love that rifle, but it wouldn't feed rounds reliably. He insisted I was doing something wrong because his rifles didn't have that issue. Sent it back to him and found out it had a cracked follower spring. He sent the rifle back "fixed", and it still wouldn't feed correctly. Talked to him about it again, and he basically told me I wasn't competent enough to load and eject rounds. I let him know that while I was certainly no gunsmith, I've been loading and ejecting rounds in my other rifles since I was 7 years old and was quite competent at it. He told me to ship the rifle back to him and he'd send a refund check.

I've heard praises of his love for working with his customers, and was pretty shocked at the way he was handling the situation.
I was told later that he takes such great pride in his work that he has a hard time believing anything not working properly with his rifles must be the customers fault or lack of ability.

I'd love to have a model 24 that worked flawlessly like I've read about.

I don't know...maybe he was having a bad day (or couple of weeks). The man has a great reputation, but wow....that was not my experience with him.

Forgive me but didn't you once build an identical rifle?

From memory redneck built it. What brings you back to this build:

It would be a left hand Stiller Predator action, a McMillan Hunters EDGE or Remington Sporter in EDGE fill with a #2 contour barrel at 23"-24" in either .270 Win. or .280 Rem.

Yes Sir. I sure did...and foolishly sold it. I've sold rifles that I look back and wish I hadn't, but none so much as that one Redneck built for me.

I have 2 rifles built by HCR. Real nice rifles and extremely accurate even with factory ammo

I am sure that now you have a better idea of what you want in a rifle and will be happier moving forward. I would stay away from the Mcmillan sporter stock as I've read some horrid opinions of them on here. Also seems too big for a #2 contour. I would stick with a mountain rifle, hunter edge, Mcmillan Hunter, or Classic depending on what features you like in a stock.

Best

Thank you for the advice.
I've heard either fantastic or horrible things about that Remington Sporter stock.
I love the lines of it, but folks that have handled them say they're blocky.
McMillan lists the offend with of the Hunters Edge at 1.72".
The Sporter stock is listed at 1.9" wide at the same point. Doesn't SEEM like much difference.

Not sure if McMillan ever started making their Mountain Rifle stock in a left hand version. I love that trim little stock.

I also had problems with 2 of his rifles. A 22lr that had feeding problems, which seemed to work itself out for now, after trying/playing with 4 new mags. I have a 260 that couldnt fire after being cocked, sent to him he fixed it, said too much dried cleaning solution in the trigger mechanism, he cleaned it out. (purchased brand new - less than 2 boxes of ammo through it) When I questioned his 125.00 charge, he became unhinged, told me to forget about it. I mailed him a check regardless, he mailed it back unopened. Both rifles ordered new from him. I might be in the minority here though plenty of good ones out there, I dont shoot half as much as others here, consider myself a newbie

I don't understand why you would consider going back to Melvin since you had a bad experience with him. Would he even build you another rifle? I'm not putting you down,nor him either but I would think the last thing anyone would want was to use a gunsmith that they had already had issues with.

I guess I'm just stubborn.

The man makes an awesome product. I wish I could get a model 24 that shot tiny little groups and had no malfunctions.

But, the chance of an issue with a NULA then having to deal with Melvin about will probably keep me from spending money with him.

And you're right...A business man who would call his customer incompetent and insist on me sending the rifle back for a refund probably wouldn't build me another rifle.

It seems my problem is solved.

Hill Country Rifles it is....

Interesting.

The no-brainer of the century is to buy an off-the-shelf Kimber MT 84L, have Lilja do the 84L version of their 84M "Modified" tube (.617" @22"), and have a quality smith install/chamber it.

You'll be dollars ahead and really have a better rifle with the best factory trigger there is, 3pos safety, CRF, phenomenal stock ergos, etc...

Or just buy a Tikka and put it in a manners stock !

Another option might be to wait until Barret Rifles are being shipped out, supposedly in December. Very close to an all stainless Forbes 24 but with a variety of calibers and twist rates. It will remain to be seen if the stock is up to the NULA standards as that is one of the components that isn't duplicated by others.

If you go with HCR and the Stiller I would ask if it will eject loaded rounds. I have heard with some very long bullets/loads that it doesn't. I would have the port opened up anyway just for looks. I would go 280 AT just because. If you can I would recommend handling the various stocks before deciding as even fractions of an inch can make all the difference in feel.

Sorry to hear about any negative experiences with NULA but it can happen in any business.

Brad
I'm a lefty. Kimber Is still right hand only, correct?

Missed that... yes, RH only.

Get a NULA

I am happy to share my experiences. Mcmillan makes all of their stocks available in left hand versions to my knowledge. Here is a thread that I made on a very similar build that I had done. Maybe it will help.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Ackley_Improved_by_Jon_Bea#Post10239960

Nope, there's a few that McMillan only offers RH. Mountain rifle is one of them.

If the like the Mountain rifle, look at the KS stock. You can order it LH, but only with ADL bottom metal, which I prefer anyway.

Thanks for all the advice folks.
Much appreciated

Sorry, I'm a righty and haven't heard that before. Good luck!

just another option, but have you looked at Rifles Inc?

Is the only reason you are looking at HCR the 3 shot guarantee? Seems like you know each component of the rifle you want, you could buy all the components and assemble yourself using a trusted gunsmith To screw the barrel in.

Good post. Sounds like it would be a waste of time for both Melvin and the OP. I'd be looking at a lefty Tikka T3 lite... I was looking at one the other day and they are pretty damn slick. Everyone says they are shooters right out of the box too. They weigh a tiny bit less than my pre 64 model 70, but hey it's a Tikka...

HCR builds some nice rifles. Another suggestion - go talk to Ray Perry in Bridge City, TX. Ray will build what you want, cheaper and faster than HCR. He built me a Kimber 84m in 7mm-08AI. The rifle is flawless.

David

Does the cooper 92 fit the perameters? I didn't read all the way through but I've been checking the new coopers and they look really good!cooper backcountry. I think it's a 92. What kind of weight are you looking at, scoped?

Rifles costing several times more than a NULA can on occasion also have problematic issues; There was a Jerry Fisher
custom mauser where the open sight fell off,- a Duane Weibe DGR mauser that failed to feed the next round on safari.
but the real problem is when ANY gun builder starts to think he's infallible.

I was treated the same way by Melvin with my .30-06 that would not feed. First time the rifle showed up it had a nice large scratch running down the barrel. Second time i received the rifle it was having feeding problems and was tired of dealing with a very rude person and wanted my money back. Funny Thing is i called him twice while waiting on my rifle, the first time i called he told me, i could get things done faster if people would quit calling to check on their rifles! I told him Would call my credit card co and get my money back so fing fast and hung up. He called back and apologizied, but that left a extremely bitter taste in my mouth. I cannot for the life of me understand that a person with business act like this. I treat people like i want to be treated and was blown away by what he told me, as he was so nice and helpful when i first called him to order the rifle!

First and second Nula were excellent. Third had an issue with a pin in the bolt that was out of spec and caused the bolt to stick. Only caused a problem with a round chambered. Discovered it working a dummy round, twice. Melvin couldn't believe it and we went around on it, twice. Finally, the light came on in his head and he said, "My fault, I know why." Fixed and another great rifle. I had to be willing to say horse chit something's wrong and we need to find out why. Wouldn't hesitate to have him do another.

Addition: I've been to his shop 4-5 times and his phone hardly stops going off. I work in the same type of environment. Trying to do something right and you are constantly interrupted by the phone and we have about 8 of them. Eventually, sometimes you lose your nice voice. In addition, like the internet, sometimes what you say is interrupted on the other end different than how you meant it.

He could either hire some one or use an answering machine so he wouldn't become a grouch.

Maybe there isn't enough profit to allow another employee. Nobody's perfect, everybody has bad days. Dealing with pretentious pricks gets tiresome. I build custom homes.....I know.

Serious question

Is there any reason a Kimber Montana with a trued action and a custom barrel,put together and bedded by a good competent smith,couldn't be just as accurate as a NULA? Wouldn't it be just as light also if someone was only interested in light and accurate?


I understand someone might want to get the NULA because of the stock shape,length,or to get a left hand version.

Clark, you're right and some of the ones we have have been plenty accurate as is too. I met Melvin in Nashville and was my pleasure to talk to him. I bet my friend and I spoke with him 30+min and it was our pleasure. I was going to order a 223AI from him but punked out when I picked up a factory Montana that shoots better than I can.

Not long ago I was telling a good friend about how a Nula would be the ultimate light deer rifle. He called him to order a 22" barreled 243 with either a timney or jewel trigger set at 2lb. He basically told my friend he was a idiot and only a fool would have a trigger that light and barrel that short.

Maybe he is getting old and crotchety. A combination of getting old and getting tired of building rifles could explain these CS complaints.

True. I'm sure he gets some very stupid questions too

It could be, but I doubt on average it will be. Would the Kimber done right be more than adequate. Without a doubt.

What reason? Is the action stiffer or more inherently accurate in any way, or is it just that you trust that the experience and knowledge behind the NULA would result in a rifle built better?

In other words,would the components be better in a NULA or just the craftsmanship?

Do you use "voice mail" or an answering machine?

I would have to say the reason is Melvin's entire rifle is built dead nuts center to the bore. You can true up a factory rifle for the barrel, but that doesn't mean the rest of the action isn't twisted a tad.

Just an initial thought. Could be wrong.

Last time I saw him, he was still using a flip phone. He could have a smart phone now. Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it, unless he had to.

I would like to own a NULA. If I get the cash I wouldn't be afraid of Melvin's egocentricity enough to keep me from buying one.

Yeah, NULA's are built straight from the get-go, including the stock, one of the best made.

I've known Melvin for over 25 years, and he's going to be 70 on his next birthday. In the past couple years two of his long-time employees retired, and last I heard he hasn't found adequate replacements. A couple of companies that partnered with him over the years didn't work out, both due to their incompetence. (For a while he did have a decent partnership with another company.) But basically he's getting grumpy, like many people do as they get older. Have even seen it on the Fire!

Parts....Get the essentials. Firing pin and spring. Melvin isn't getting any younger and who knows if NULA or whoever will be making his clone will be in business x number of years from now.

John,

What is your experience with Kimber Montana's? Clearly you like Nosler stuff, almost their sponsor. But who knows... Have your Kimber's done well or not?

i have called melvin several times over the years about an issue i may have or a question and he truly does care about his product and customers he has proven this to me on more than one occasion when he answered his phone going down the road (he had the called forwarded to his cell phone) and pulled of the road to talk to me about the issue/question until i had my answer or understood what was going on with the rifle

Ed,

Kimber has made enormous strides in the past decade. The barrels they used were iffy for a while, but they've been far more consistent for several years now, and OTB accuracy has also improved considerably. The action has been a pretty neat unit since they worked out some of the initial bugs, one reason my wife's custom .308 Winchester is built on a Kimber 84M action.

There's no doubt the average NULA will be more accurate than the average Kimber, but that's comparing a mass-produced factory rifle with a limited-production rifle specifically built from the ground up to be very precise. (The same is true of Nosler rifles, which like NULAs use custom barrels.) But as battue points out, the practical difference in accuracy between a good Kimber and NULAs is so small it's irrelevant in most big game hunting. These days it's really hard to beat Kimbers in their price range.

For the price of these rifles and then the hassle when there is an issue, this is an easy call for me.

Chance of a hassle is rare and the rifle makes it worth working it out if there is one. Melvin may get cranky, but that doesn't mean he will not work with you, nor would he be the first cranky gunsmith.

Same here!
I guess I need to sell some of mine I don`t use anymore
and get a Forbes s.s. barrel 30-06 and get Melvin to
go over it and fix any issues.
Then Cerakote and Micro-Slick it mount a Leupold 6x42 Heavy Duplex
and be set!
AMRA

My interaction with Melvin after purchasing left a lot to be desired. Never again!

That's a given. I'd be on the lookout for a colt light rifle and build the damn thing myself. Just sayin..

I have had four NULA's all in 270. My pals talked me out of them. Last week I bought a Kimber 84 to get an action. Well I "shot the donor" and it is so accurate that I can't make any improvements.

The Kimber is the same weight as a NULA but is 1/3 the cost.

If you send it to Greg Tannel for an action job and then add a custom barrel and have it bedded and painted you will still be in it for less than a M 24 but you will have CRF and a 3 position safety.

Lots to like.

Maybe i've just been unlucky over the decades, but I've seriously had my fill of dealing with egocentric pretentious
purposely difficult rifle makers....so last thing I would do is support the business of yet another one. I don't give them
any more special entitlement than I do my green grocer ..Hey but if someone is doing something of far greater value
like saving peoples lives in an emergency ward, I will tolerate their grumpiness.

About time you caught on

With the Kimber Montana available, I can't think of a rational reason to build a lightweight rifle for BG hunting.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. But I wouldn't bother.

Maybe I've just been lucky but everything I've had done by Mr. Forbes was simple and easy. Gave him the exact details and he did it.

Well, in the case of the OP, he's a Lefty, so that's one reason. Likely the only reason.

I'd go NULA.

I had a friend this fall just about get killed by a charging Grizzly. She bluffed him three times. In the fracus he grabbed the clients Kimber Montana and proceeded to lock it up tighter than Fort Knox.

It was captured on film by a professional film crew so I'm anxious to see what actually went on there.

It's not difficult to tie up a CRF.




Dave

If you are a righty, options abound.
Even the Weatherby superlgiht is a helluva rifle at
5 3/4lbs.
...My LH Forbes rifle shoots as well as, or better than the last NULA I had.
They wouldn't feel much different in the hands blindfolded.

It's not difficult to tie up a push feed either.

Luck?...not at all...Forbes is a very good rifle smith..but like all humans he aint perfect.
The problem only starts when they arrogantly find it hard to comes to terms with their own fallibility.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hubris-icarus-case-over-confidence-nathan-o-donnell ...

[quote]

"Overconfidence (the Mother of all Biases) has the potential to snare anyone of us if we are not aware and pick up
signals from our thinking patterns.
Overconfidence effects are some of the most potent, pervasive and pernicious of any of the documented biases.
If we are not all appropriately humble about our about the quality of our judgements, and take the time to
double-check our opinions and correct our flaws there can be an exponential negative impact to our businesses,
our staff and eventually ourselves.

There are three main observable behavioral characteristics of over confidence, these are;

• Over-precision: The tendency to be too sure that our judgements and decisions are accurate.
In this state we show little interest in testing our assumptions and dismissing evidence that we may be wrong.
• Overestimation: The common tendency to think we are better, faster, smarter, more capable, more
attractive and more popular than we actually are. As a result we we tend to overestimate how much we can
accomplish in a limited timeframe or believe we have more control than we actually do.
• Over placement is thinking falsely we rank higher than others on certain dimensions, particularly in
competitive contexts.
"
[end-quote]

Brad,
I am pretty slow to learn new things.
Last week I shot a pal's 6/47 Lapua with a dial in scope. Now I am really messed up. Dang thing really worked. And it was a Leupold. Go figure...on the CF they don't work.

Brad,
Also the Kimber stock is really shapely. The NULA is about as svelte as a fire hydrant.
Call me the convert.

Let us know when and where it will show, please.

I find the Kimber stock as good as it gets. Like it was built for me. Yeah, Leupold/CDS is not fashionable, but it works as advertised for those not spending every waking moment spinning a turret.

I like the Kimber stock too but I've never thought the NULA was too big or bulky, I like mine.

Far from big and further from bulky.

Constructive criticism is one thing and it may not fit like some may prefer, but BS is BS.

Yep, I hunt multiples of both Montana's and NULA's. The NULA has a cheekpiece and a longer forend so it's slightly larger than the Kimber....but it's a far cry from being anything other than svelte.

Then we get a linkden psychoanalysis of why Melvin is cranky. WABOS.

WABOS?? Is that Spanish for "eggs?"

I've been thinking the same thing and when it comes to repairs down the road it's a Remington 700 at heart for repair parts.

BTW I've had four ULA/NULA's through the years and still have two.