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Hello All,
I am a new Savage owner, having picked up a 1949 EG Savage 99 in .300 Savage to go deer hunting here in Manitoba, Canada. Because I was stand hunting in thick stuff, I just left the iron sights on it, and sighted in at 50 yards, and called it a day. Now it seems that I will likely be moving to Saskatchewan, which is kinda like Montana or the Dakotas; lots of long shots in the 250-300 yard range, unless you get surprised with the odd close one. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone could tell me the effective hunting range of this gun in this caliber? I dont want to go drilling and tapping it for a scope if I should be looking for something else for long range shooting on the lone prairie. Thanks in advance...
I have Never Had a Problem within 250 yds or so in South Dakota with Mine. But Mine was Scoped.
If Ya Can Range it at a 200Yd Range With Open Sights and Feel Comfortable. Than Hats Off to Ya. For Your Eyes are Better than Mine.
Steve
The effective range of the 300 savage would be 400 yds +. The real question is how far can you shoot accurately with the iron sights. There is lots of close-cover shooting for whitetail deer in the forest fring zones and if you are hunting the coulees or mixed farming areas there are lots of opportunities for shots at mulies, whitetail, Elk and Moose at close to moderate ranges.

I live in West-central Sask and have shot very few game animals at ranges further than 150 - 200 yards with most being in the 100 yard range.

I often use a scoped 99F in .300 savage for deer hunting and have never felt under-gunned.

As I started this post, the real question is what is your maximum comfortable range with the iron sights--you may have to pick up another 99 that is scoped and have the best of both worlds.

FWIW, LawMan
It will do anything a .308 Winchester will do. Some may disagree, but I stand by my statement. If you can shoot a deer at 200/250 yards with open sights and feel comfortable doing so, you're a better man than me.
Actually, my eyes are way worse than when I was younger, and I would definitely want a scope for anything out beyond 100 yards. I have heard criticism from some folks on various boards about tapping untapped original Savage 99's, but since i'm in Canada, I guess it's gonna have to be a shooter anyways. So you say the .300's good for 250 yards anyways?
I would Be Afraid Of that 250 Yds at all.
And as Lawman Said up to 400 Yds.
If Ya can See It, And feel comfortable ya Can Hit It.
Steve
StHubert, I hunt the midwest in the US which is wide open. Used to use magnums before I realized that 95% of all my shots were under 100 yards once I became even slightly good at hunting. I'm guessing you'll find your hunting to be similar.

I'd happily go up to 250 yards with a 300 Savage.. I don't happily go over 250 yards with anything. Just me.. I don't like wounded animals, and the elapsed time for a bullet to go over 250 yards with any rifle is getting to the point where an animal can too easily shift out of the bullet's path. Yes, I've shot over 250 yards in the past..

Anyway, don't drill and tap that rifle for a scope if it's not already. Try your open sights to 200 yards, or look into getting a Stith and a 2.5-4x scope, or even just a peep sight. I can shoot MUCH better with a peep than I can with open, you might like it better also.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!
I'd definitly have a scope on any rifle that I planned to shoot past 100 yds at game. No matter how good your eyes are, a scope will be far superior and absolutly necessary in those first and last few minutes of shooting light.

On the other hand, i wouldn't d&t a savage 99 either unless it had some other modifications (refinished etc) that had already ruined its collector value.

Either find a 99 that's already D&T or go buy a stevens 200 for $275 to do the long range/dusk/dawn shooting.

Weagle
Don't forget the Stith option.. costs, but is perfectly workable.
Theres a Stith For Sale Mounts and Scope On G.B.
Steve
Never Mind the Stith.
Get Yourself a Boone.
Just Got One From Ohio, Like Mint.

Stever
Steve
Did you use that scope yet?How do you like it?

Mike
Nice rifle you got, I got my first 99 in mid-November-a 1952 EG in .300, factory d&t. First load using 165 grain soft points and RL-15 went around an inch for groups, never went back and tweaked it any. We've got a 'gong' hanging in the crick about 200 yards from the house, 6" diameter or so, the 60's vintage Weaver 4x is good enough for bouncing it back and forth regularly. The two does I got this deer season were both about 80 yards out, pass throughs both times. I personally can't shoot iron sights for crap, probably cause there isn't a gun in the house without a scope on it.
All Mounted, And Going to The Range on Saturday after the Cub-Scouts Pine-wood Derby! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
As You May or May Not Know.
I am a Assitant Cub-Master and Den leader For Cub Scouts.
And a AssiTant Scout Master for Boy Scouts, Also Merite Badge Counsler For Rifle,And Shot Gun Shooting For Our Troop and the Entire NEIC if Northern Illinois which Takes In about 120 Troops.
Also Putting A Skeet/Pigeon Group together For Boys age 12 to 18 Years Of Age.
Hello again,
And thanks for all the advice, although some of it is contradictory. Color me ignorant, but what is a Stith? Are there vintage scopes available out there that 'look right' as compared with throwing Weaver bases and a Bushnell scope on it and calling it done?
Pictures of a Stith at www.savage99.com. It's a mount that requires no new holes, the rear goes on top of the tang holes, and the front uses the rear sight dovetail. Comes in 3/4" (most common), 7/8" and 1". Different scopes for different sizes.. folks here can help guide you.
Is there anyplace that sells the stiths,or can you only find them in actions,gunshows ect?
Fleabay has them occasionally, sometimes run into them other places. I had to buy a ratty 99EG in order to get the 1" Stith on it.. boy, that was horrible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[color:"brown"]Bullet drop depends on several factors. And so, to be able to give you actual "numbers", I'd have to know your bullet weight, your bullet's ballistic coefficient, muzzle velocity and the height of your sights (iron or scope) above the center of your rifle's bore.

If you intend to shoot accurately at 200+ yards, you'd be wise to install a scope on your rifle.

But to "short-cut" this post, I'll give you the "numbers" for my rifle and my handloads which are 50 fps faster than factory loads. And so, if you're shooting factory loads, your "numbers" would be slightly different, but... frankly, NOT enough "different" to worry about since, in the field, you aren't shooting off a bench-rest and so, a quarter inch here or there isn't going to make any difference.

The "point-blank" hunting/shooting range of a .300 Savage cartridge firing a 150 grain factory bullet @ the standard factory round's muzzle velocity (2625 fps) would be a maximum of 265 yards under no wind conditions.

"Point-blank range" is the distance at which your rifle's bullet NEVER goes more than 3-inches ABOVE or BELOW your line-of-sight using either iron sights or scope sights. In other words, it is a range at which you can ALWAYS hold "dead-on" the target and expect the bullet to strike the target within THREE INCHES of the point-of-aim.

Since a white-tailed deer's "kill zone" is approximately 9-inches in diameter, if you aimed at the CENTER of the "kill zone", your bullet would strike well within that 9-inch diameter all the way out to your rifle's "POINT BLANK RANGE" meaning you would NOT need to HOLD OVER or UNDER the point at which you want your bullet to strike the target.

Most hunters have NO BUSINESS attempting a shot beyond their rifle's point-blank-range simply because most hunters don't practice shooting and hitting targets at ranges beyond 250 to 300 yards and, therefore, have NO CONCEPTION as to how much to "HOLD OVER" the target to place their bullet in the target's "kill zone".

Naturally, larger game animals (like elk or moose) had a larger "kill zone" than smaller game like deer.

Ok... enough explanations... here are the APPROXIMATE (as close as I can get NOT knowing ANY of the ballistic information listed above) "numbers" for your rifle.

Your rifle, firing a 150 grain factory round, should be sighted in 2.8 inches high at 100 yards. The bullet will reach it's maximum height above the line-of-sight (approx. 3") at 140 yards. It will be "dead on" the center of the target at about 225 yards and about 3 inches low at 260 yards.

Beyond that... it's your guess... and in most cases, most hunters would "miss" the the"kill zone" (and thus wound the animal-a serious "NO-NO!) beyond 300 yards unless they've done extensive shooting at those and longer ranges.

The maximum range of a 150 grain bullet fired from a .300 Savage cartridge is approximately 2.3 to 2.8 MILES... depending on the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. The higher the B.C., the further the bullet will fly due to the efficiency of the SHAPE of the bullet.

However, the "maximum EFFECTIVE range" is that range at which the shooter can DEFINITELY hit the aiming point. Again, for most hunters, a 200 yard shot is a LONG shot... a 300 yard shot is a VERY LONG shot...and beyond 300 yards, it's a LUCKY shot if the bullet hits the aimiing point.

By contrast, trained U.S. snipers in Vietnam made kills on human targets out to and beyond 1,000 meters using a 7.62 x 51mm NATO round (aka ".308 Winchester). The .300 Savage is the FATHER of the 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester rounds and has VERY similar exterior ballistics (out to 300 yards) as those two rounds have.

And so, as you can see, what is one man's "effective range" is not the same for another man. I know I very much doubt that I could hit a man at 1,000 meters with ANY rifle unless I practiced shooting such shots... and even then, I might have trouble.

In my big game hunting experience (45+ years), I've noticed that the vast majority of hunters OVER-ESTIMATE the range at which they see... or shoot at... or killed the game. My bestest hunting buddy does this CONSTANTLY!

Don't mis-understand, he is a very honorable man, but he can't judge distance worth a "sh*t! As an example, he shot a deer in 2005 on the pipeline in the open area (clear-cut about 50 feet wide) that has been cleared of all trees and brush above where the gas pipeline is buried. When he showed me where his stand was... and I saw the gut-pile, I am SURE the distance was NOT greater than 170 yards. However, he claimed a 275 yard shot... and he honestly believes, even now, that it WAS a "275 yard shot"!

And when he asked me what I thought the shot's distance was... I remembered how much I treasured his friendship and said, "Ohhh... 'bout 275 yards or so!".

You see, true "friendships" are considerably more RARE than the value of a 100 yards "difference" in what a man THINKS he shot his buck at... and what he ACTUALLY shot his buck at. The point is... he GOT the buck... so why destroy is "fantasy" afterwards just to be "right"?!?

Besides that... even a FISH wouldn't get into "trouble" if he just kept his MOUTH SHUT! I mean, "HEY"... I could be wrong as well.. so why "burst-his-bubble"?!?

As a former U.S. Army Artillery officer and forward observer whose job it was to call in and adjust artillery fire on targets ranging from 300 meters to 10,000 meters, I got to the point where I could give the Fire Direction Center coordinates or adjustments from a known point on the charts and put the first rounds within 50 meters of the target when directing artillery fire at less than 3,000 meters.

And so... judging distances became relatively easy. I'm not as "sharp" now as I was those many years ago, but I can still judge short ranges (under 500 yards) with pretty fair accuracy as we found out a few years ago when someone produced one of those new electronic range finders... and we had a little "contest".

As far as adding a scope to your rifle goes... if you've EVER stood on a football field under one goal post and looked down the field at the OTHER goal post... that "other goal post" was 120 yards away... the 100 yards for the field and the 10 yards at EACH END that the goal posts are set back from the goal line. Put in that scenario, you can understand why MOST of US need a scope to shoot well at targets over 100 yards away.

I'd recommend a 3x-9x variable scope with at least a 40mm objective (front) lens. Can you get by with less scope... sure... but you can't shoot BETTER than you can SEE! You don't need 9 times the magnification to shoot decently at 50 yards, but at 250 yards... ??? Yes, it's nice to have that much magnification so that you can SEE & PLACE your bullet in the game animal's "kill zone"!

Jus' my 2�... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
One of the factors to consider in "effective range",is the energy of the bullet.A commonly accepted energy level for deer size animals is 1100 ft-lbs.I will stay with Ron T's example of a 150 grains.That 150 gr bullet leaving the muzzle at 2600 feet per second generates 2250 ft-lbs.The bullet at 300 yards retains 1175 ft-lbs and at 400 yards is a marginal 928 ft-lbs.The bullet construction and speed at which a bullet will open or expand are also considerations.I consider the .300 Savage to be a 300 yard gun,with 350 yards being marginal.
I would not overlook the peep (ghost ring) option. If you do then:
1-Make sure the front sight is a post and not a bead.
2-Make sure the post is wide enough-.100 to .125 is about right.
3-For hunting use the largest aperture to take advantage of the light availability. I take the aperture out and use the screw in opening.

You've lost nothing by trying this approach first. If you're still not satisfied you will have a back up set of sights for your telescope.
Another thing (outside of ballistics, which has been very well covered here) is a rifles inherent accuracy-or lack thereof. I hear that you may as well forget shooting a Winnie '94 at over 100 yards, because of it's-supposed-lack of accuracy. Now, as far as the 99 goes, I've read that it's accuracy is "For the most part, excellent". This being a little vague, can anyone comment on the inherent accuracy in the design/construction of the 99?
One word: Excellent.

You may have to play with loads a bit, but in 300 you can probably find a 150gr factory load that will shoot just fine.
now i'm curious how they will shoot out at 300 yds.....
Ron, thanks for your excellant, detailed explanation (again). I printed it out this time to help me remember.

Question; In your scenario, at what yardage does the bullet cross the line of sight on the way up?

Also, how much does it change things if the scope is higher than normal? I have my scope on see-through mounts which, of course, is tall. I measure the center of the scope at approximately 2" above the center of the barrell.

Thanks again,
Wayne
[color:"brown"]If the center-line of the scope is higher than mine (1.4-inches), it tends to make the bullet's flight path slightly higher, but with the winds and a field "hold" effecting the shot, the height of the center line of your scope compared to the center-line of your rifle's bore makes little difference.

If you're using 150 grain factory loads (MV = 2625 fps), then the numbers (below) are probably very valid for your rifle using the much higher "see-through" scope mounts.

My handloads have a M.V. of 2680 fps. Sighted in 2.8 inches high at 100 yards, this load indictates my point-blank-range is 265 yards and yields the following ballistics:

25 yards = + 0.05 inches/velocity = 2625 fps/ bullet energy = 2295 ft-lbs.

50 yards = + 1.28 inches / 2576 fps / 2210 ft-lbs.

100 yards = + 2.75 inches / 2480 fps / 2048 ft-lbs.

130 yards = + 2.98 inches / 2423 fps / 1955 ft-lbs. (high point)

150 yards = + 2.84 inches / 2385 fps / 1894 ft-lbs.

200 yards = + 1.36 inches / 2293 fps / 1751 ft-lbs.

225 yards = � 0.00 inches / 2247 fps / 1682 ft-lbs. (�zero� range)

250 yards = - 1.79 inches / 2202 fps / 1615 ft-lbs.

265 yards = - 3.00 inches / 2175 fps / 1573 ft-lbs. (max. point-blank range)


Because unseen winds can move even heavy bullets several inches or even "feet" at long range, I won�t take any shot at game beyond approximately 250 yards� a range at which I feel any reasonably decent marksman should be able to put a bullet in the �kill zone� of big game animals. If I see game beyond this range, I�ll try to stalk closer and then, take my shot.

I realize some hunters might not agree with me about this �limit�, but that�s ok. A man should be realistic about his �limits� and this is my self-imposed limit.

My 1953 "EG" consistently shoots 3-shot, �-inch groups at 100 yards off a benchrest with my handloads using a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet in front of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 sparked by standard Winchester Large Rifle primers in once-fired, "accurized" Winchester cartridge cases with the bullet seated out to give an overall cartridge length of the standard 2.600 inches.

From other posts I've read here and other places... this kind of accuracy out of a Model 99 with a serial number less than one million (aka "pre-mil") in .300 Savage is commonplace.

As to what "effective" range a .300 Savage has... I won't take a shot beyond 250 yards. But that's "me". IMHO, it's a reasonable 300 yard rifle... but that's ALL! If your game is further away.... STALK CLOSER!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
Thanks, very helpful.
You da man!
[color:"brown"]Da nada, compadr�.......
How 'bout we simply agree that it will shoot accurately farther than most of us can?! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yeah George!
Simply Stated! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote:
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How 'bout we simply agree that it will shoot accurately farther than most of us can?!
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