The Perris Special arrived this week. I do own rarer rifles than this, but this is the rarest Savage I own. I'm starting to put a collection of these together. It's been 30+ years to add this one, I wonder how long it will take to find the next? The 1986 letter from Roe Clark indicates this gun listed as a "carbine" with a rubber buttplate and a round barrel. It was shipped summer, 1904. He states later "There were only a few of them made, as Savage came out with it's own design, (Featherweight) which was similar." I find this surprising as a carbine is hardly a featherweight. This rifle has a standard heavy carbine barrel and if it had a sling ring and a carbine buttplate, it would be a carbine. Reportedly, there were at least 30 Perris Specials made and I wonder if they are the same configuration as this one? Or, do some of them resemble featherweights? And if so, why would some be made one way and others made differently? Certainly, fascinating questions, at least to me. I have never seen a rear sight like this - curious if anyone else has? It appears to have no mechanism for elevation. Maybe this was considered unnecessary as a tang sight was fitted as well? The tang sight is marked M.S.A. Co. Gladstone, Mich. It is the only tang sight I have with a rear push button. And, the striping in the wood is very interesting. My speculation is that it is sap that took the stock stain differently than the rest of the wood. Thoughts and comments would be appreciated - and if anyone has anything in print on these, I would be enthralled






[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/steve004/gunsafeandroom046.jpg[/img]

Did Les ever show you the stuff I turned up?
Nice rifle.Nice sights.

Nice one there Bolt.... A keeper for sure....

When you gonna shoot her???


Mike...

Boltman,

Like the express sights on your German sporting rifles this rear sight was probably calibrated for a specific load at a specific range, I.E.- 100, 150 or 200 yards.

Vlad

Is the tang sight custom in any way???

Ras - as I said, I don't have any tang sights with the push button lock in the rear - but I don't know that it is custom. It seems that I have heard of these - maybe someone can help me out on this?

Jed - I think Les is looking for the info. you mentioned. I wonder how many "known" specimens have come to light? P.M. me of any you find for sale! Emphasis on the P.M.

Jed, I can't find anything on the Perris in my stuff, did I miss something? Les

Boltman,Thank you for the pic`s.Very nice 99 .I hope you find more in that condition.
Lionel

I found um!
Letters..dated from 04-5.
Send me a PM.

Steve, the tang sight is a early marbles safety axe co. sight for a 1899 savage i have a couple on rifles, what is the deal with the stake marks on the slide of the rear sight was that so you could adjust elevation by pushing or pulling it back and forth till you got it sighted in, than staked it in place? nice little rifle you might be a while finding a mate to it!!! Don

Looks like I gots 3 letters from Baker + Hamilton...and 3 letters from SAC.
One mentions an experimental 18" bbl.

Feb 29 1904 from SAC signed AWS.2 pages
march 25 04 from SAC " " AWS.4 pages
Aug. 16 1904 on SAC letterhead...Utica is X'ed out...San Fran,Cali is inserted in it's place."dictated by ACR" 1pg.

Nice savage Boltman, a pice of history, ya got there! John

Congrats.Everything is unique on that one.

The black stain looks to me like iron stain from water rusting something then running down the wood and being allowed to dry there. It has happened to me in a day of hunting in the rain and standing the rifle against a tree when I got to camp.

Nice Grab Steve.
The Pics Ya Got Theire Look a Tons Better than When J.E. Had It Up.
May Be up North the 1st Weekend In May.
Stever

Rick - here's the picture of the buttplate.

Below is a picture of the rear sight on the Perris Special and the rear sight on a SRC I have that is within 300 numbers of the Perris rifle. As you can see, the rear dovetail is moved much further forward on the Perris rifle, which I have to believe was done so they could accomodate the long rear sight. By the way, I put the micrometer on the end of both barrels and they mic identically, so for this rifle, they used the one standard short barrel they had on hand at the time. I understand (thanks Rick) that the known serial number range is 49,xxx through 52,xxx. This one is 49,00x, so it may well be the first one made and if not, one of the very first. I am very curious if any of the ones made after this had a lighter barrel. Ah, the mystery of it.

I cry when I see that 32-40..............

I'd like to see the rest of that .32-40 please!!!!!!

Mike....

Mike - it's the bottom one in the pictures:

Thanks Bolt. I blew your pics up 400%. Beautiful rifles there man!! Just beautiful....

Mike...

Boltman,

That butt plate brings up another question. When was that BP first used?

Does anyone have an 1899 with that BP and a serial earlier than 49,000?

A list I have from a Canadian sale about 15 years ago lists two Perris specials,
1) 51137 20 inch RB, straight stock,checkered wood, engraved panels, gold plated scews, new unfired condition, complete with documentation from 1904
2) 49005 20 inch RB, Perris special engraved on left, tang sight,
well used prototype of the above rifle and is included in the documentation
BillR

BillR,

wow! what a teaser!!!

to now know that there is a Perrris Special out there in "new & unfired" condition!

It almost takes my breath away... ohhh!

Boltman...note that it lists the second one as a "prototype".

Considering that's the one I have here, it is an intriguing prospect

EXPLAIN..............PLEASE..............

Mike.

I have the one that BillR references earlier in this thread - the "prototype."

It may be (and probably is) this. At any rate, they're mineral streaks, whether in the wood or in the finish.

Scott

Still looks great!!!!!

Mike...

Hey Boltman...I sent you a package today.

Thanks Jed - I'll let you know when it arrives

1. The open rear sight does NOT look like a factory installation.

2. Though there is no good pic of the back end of the open rear sight, it seems to me that elevation in this case could have been adjusted by a (currently missing) U-shaped piece (cut with 'steps') fitting under & around the sides of the sight, which would move it up & down by being pushed back & forth. Marble, Redfield & others used such a system on some of their open rear sights - instead of a screw, or a solid step-cut piece fitting in a slot in the sight.

It seems as though the rifle is a proto-type.Not xactly sure yet...if it is the case...the sight likely has relevance.

Jed, I'm watching the mailbox real close these days

I was hoping that this was the one!
Mebee tommorow.

Today was only Wednesday, but tomorrow has much better prospects.

palms sweaty yet?

Boltman got the letters and he likes...and wants to share some of his stuff w/ya's.
I'm writing to protect him from anyone asking for freebie copies of the letters.He paid very dear for them...same as I did when I found them.So be kind please.

Thanks to Jed for having the foresight to purchase a series of letters that were exchanged between Mr. Arthur Savage, Baker & Hamilton and Mr. A.E. Perris. Jed had an opportunity to purchase these years ago and even though he didn't have a Perris Special, he knew these letters contained information available no where else. A fascinating glimpse into the past. I'm still digesting the information. One thing I will say: more than ever, I believe the sight that is on my rifle was placed there at the Savage factory at the time the rifle was manufactured. In a letter to Perris from Arthur Savage, Savage writes that they will take a "...regular carbine barrel and file the sight slots in by hand to get the rear sight as close to the front of the receiver as we possibly can." At first glance as I read this I thought that he meant trying to get the rear dovetail closer to the front of the receiver - which seemed odd as the dovetail on mine is about two inches further from the receiver than the dovetail on a standard carbine barrel. But, clearly what they meant is that to fit the sight requested on the barrel, they have to move the dovetail further away, but again, he states they will place the dovetail as close as they possibly can. If you look at the sight on my rifle, you will see that when the leaf is folded flat, it is almost, but not quite touching the front of the receiver. I would say there is about 1/32 to spare. It is fit in there exactly. And, added corroboration for me is the fact that there is not a mark or the tiniest ding or mar of any kind on the sight or on the barrel around the sight slot.

Good point. Might have been a customer supplied sight...sure doesn't look like a Savage product.

The sight wasn't dealt with in the correspondence I have, but clearly, there were more letters in the correspondence than what I have. Would dearly love to have it all