I acquired two 99's, a 300 Sav. and a 308. I understand they both use a .308 bullet. I've got Lee Loader kits for both with powder measures. Even though there are various loads listed, the instructions say to use the measure scoop supplied. I know I could buy different or adjustable measures, I've got one for my muzzleloaders. Should I use the measure scoops provided to start out with? What powder would you guys recommend? I want a good hunting round with 150 to 170G bullets. Two powders that seem to show up in my researching are IMR4895 and 3031. Also, what kind of bullets do you like? Thanks....Marty

Do you have the classic loader kits? If so, you can use the dipper with the listed powder and bullet combinations. Or what I would suggest is buying a powder scale and using that to weigh each charge.

I started out with the classic loader and it works, but the dipper is only correct for the powders and bullet combinations listed on the chart that came with that case. It's also not possible to vary your charges consistently and look to find the sweet spot for consistency - which is why I suggested a powder scale.

ST40

Lot's of powders for those two cartridges will work well. One of the 4895, RE 15, some like 4064. Hard to pick a bad one.

Please purchase a powder scale. A Lee scale is twenty something bucks. That way, you'll know what you're loading for sure.
4895 and 3031 would be fine...as would 4350, 4064, and many, many others.

If you have the classic Lee Loader that requires you to use a mallet to drive the case into the size die, be aware that you are neck sizing only. I would expect chambering and/or extraction difficulties to crop up fairly soon in a 99, due to a lack of camming power compared to a bolt action.

If you keep your loads mild, you may do OK, but full length sizing will give you better functioning.

I've used IMR4064, IMR3031 and Accurate2495 for both. The Lee dipper works okay if one uses it exactly per instructions. Wildhobbybobby gives good advice per full length sizing.

A Lee hand press is cheap, and builds muscle when full length resizing. I'd recommend finding a used Lyman or similar magnetic dampened scale. The one Lee scale I owned was iffy, it would hang up sometimes and you could go over weight on charges without knowing it. A cheap used scale is fine and are usually factory warrantied.

Then, after wrestling with the Lee tool for a couple of months you'll be scouting out presses, dies, measures, etc. They're good to start out with, and will produce good ammo, but all the comments re: speed and effort to use them are spot-on. If you can restrain yourself to just shooting a box full of ammo once in a blue moon you'll be ok with the Lee. The problem arises from discovering the joys of loading your own and then shooting more because your loads are cheap and work nicely. Then the 'arms race' sets in! Only kidding (sort of)- you'll be fine. Just don't start interpolating data if all you have are the Lee dippers. I'll second the advice about getting a decent scale.

I went form the hand press to the turret press to the classic cast turret press with safety prime and double disc powder measure. It makes very accurate loads. For starting out Id recommend hand throwing the charges and hand seating the primers. Lee makes fine equipment for this as well.

I like to keep it simple and cheap. I use Reloader powders due to the simple numbering system avoiding confusion and the fact that they work so well. I use CCI primers for everything and factory corelokt bullets where I can also for economy and simplicity.

Oh, always prep your brass before loading the first time. Fully size it, trim it to length at least. I like prepping brass, so I uniform the depths and de-bur flash holes, and turn the outside of the case necks. The Lee length trimmers are simple and handy. I like the Forster Hand Outside Neck Turner, or HOT as they call it.

Those old lee loaders are the stone age of reloading tools!!! i'm sure in the near future you will be moving toward a regular style press!JMO. Don

Get the Lee Reloading Manual if you don't have one. Good info with specifics and data on the use of dippers.

Tis' true, a great book for learning reloaders.

I got my start with a Lee loader in order to feed a hungry .38 Special, at age 15. Two hours to load a box of 50 shells, and about 15 minutes to shoot them away! When I started making noises about loading rifle cartridges for my dad and myself (.30/30, 7x57,and .30/40 Krag) he broke down and sent in an order to Herter's for the necessary stuff. He said he didn't think he could stand listening to all that extra pounding if I kept up with the Lee Loaders!

If you're serious about getting into reloading, then I recommend you get a "serious" set of reloading tools... like the RCBS basic set which includes 'most everything you'll need to do some serious reloading.

Foremost is a powder SCALE and reloading press using RCBS reloading die sets. I believe RCBS's set comes with their 505 powder scale. That's a decent scale and will do the job for you.

There are a few other items you'll need, but you can get started with the basic RCBS set and go from there as your experience and knowledge increases.

Try to find a mentor... reloaders are a friendly bunch and I'm sure you can find someone to help you get started and over-see your loading for a while until you gain some knowledge and confidence.

As for loads, I have tried IMR3031, H4895, IMR4895, IMR4064, IMR4320 and Varget... all very suitable powders for a 150 grain bullet in a .300 Savage cartridge.

My current hunting load is a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet in front of 40.8 grains of H4895 sparked by a standard Winchester large rifle primer in Winchester cartridge cases. This combination gives me a chronographed muzzle velocity of 2635 fps with a velocity variation of just � 3 fps (+1 fps/- 2 fps). Three shot group accuracy is less than 1 inch at 100 yards.

There's no substitute for good quality, sturdy reloading equipment... and RCBS sells some of the very best available together with life-time guarantees on most of their stuff.

Reloading is a hobby and can be almost as enjoyable as the shooting. CONSISTENCY is the name-of-the-game in the ACCURACY DEPARTMENT... and you will find it is very difficult to maintain true CONSISTENCY using dippers for your powder rather than a powder scale. Stay with the balance beam mechanical scale (either a RCBS 505 or Model 1010).

Electronic scales are more "touchy" (air movement, etc.) and you can actually get more accurate powder weights using the mechanical balance beam scales which can easily weight powder charges down to within 1/20th of a grain by putting the balance beam pointer BETWEEN the indicator lines while the electronic models can weigh powder charges down to only 1/10th of a grain... and the mechanical scales are a lot less expensive than the electronic models too!

I've used both types of scales... and found that I much prefer the mechanical, balance-beam type powder scales. And, incidentally, I've been reloading since 1962 and currently load for 11 different rifle and pistol calibers plus two shotgun gauges (12 gauge and 28 gauge).

With proper, good-quality equipment, you'll find reloading not only fun, but you'll pride yourself on the accuracy and quality of your handloads once you learn all the "Accuracy-tricks-of-the-trade".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like I'll be getting some new equipment and I need some supplies, but I have some 110G bullets to play with for now. I had a feeling this would be a good place to start....Thanks...Marty

I couldn't agree more.

I have a 99M in 308 that needs to have the brass sized in a small base die set.

As stated the lack of camming action. If you have difficulties locking up the action, small base dies will fix that problem.

I'll debate the 'camming action' of a 99 vs. a bolt gun. If you stop and think about it the leverage exerted by a 99 lever upon closing, especially when force is applied out at the end of it, is pretty tremendous. On the other hand, the camming surfaces that lead into the locking lug recesses of many bolt guns are minimal, so the main closing force is exerted by the short lever which is the bolt handle. The superior camming action of a Mauser-based bolt action when opening the bolt is undeniable, IMO (ie: the cocking/extraction cam surface on the back of the receiver bridge that engages the root of the bolt handle as it's lifted).

All of that is a moot point as long as properly fitted ammo is used. The real difference comes into being when someone dances at the edge of non-safe max loads when sticky fired cases can be difficult to extract.

You'll be ok Marty. Invariably when a newbie raises questions regarding how to best enter the realm of handloading any number of 'experts' will rise up and offer sage advice. Your job is to winnow out the BS and hold fast to the germs of truth. Actually sitting down with your tools and loading some cartridges will tell you pretty quickly what other tools you will need, if any, to satisfy your particular needs. Remember, many of us here have been hand loading for many decades. That doesn't necessarily make us 'experts', it merely makes us old hand loaders.

Unless you're loading for a well built "competition grade" rifle, have several other handloading details well under control and are shooting at long range, you're not going to be able to reliably demonstrate any advantage to going to that much trouble weighing powder charges.

Yeah, I used to get bogged down with weighing every charge, then I wised up and only use the scale to confirm the measure setting (old Belding&Mull) and spot check as I go along. Life immediately got better, it stopped raining and the sun came out, and women started buying me drinks at the bar. (Not to mention no noticeable differences in accuracy.) If I were stupid enough to load max or over-max cartridges then maybe I would consider weighing each charge, or not. Reference the 'stupid enough' qualifier.

I assume mathman has done the "math" on this I don't disagree with him.

I'm not surprised many weigh in on a thread like this as handloading is near and dear to many of us. I have been doing it for over 30 years and at one point loaded for over 70 differet calibers. I think I am still set up to load 50 some. I recall as a teenager I strongly contemplated the Lee Loader. I didn't go for it and this probably delayed my getting started for ten years. I still use the first reloading press I bought - an RCBC Big Max. And I still use the first powder scale I bought - a Pacific brand. And I bought an RCBS auto priming tool and still use that. So, I started out with good equipment and it has served me very well - none of it needing replacement. Initially, I sure didn't need the power of the Big Max press but once I started reloading wildcats and performing substantial case forming processes, I was very glad I had it. The point I'm making is that you never know where this stuff will take you. I didn't.

Marty,

The only thing that seems to be left unsaid is that there is a vast difference between bulk measurement and weight.The scale on your adjustable black powder measure has nothing to do with charge weight. That is a bulk measurement only.

John

Thanks, and yes, I understand the difference. I was just contemplating minor volume adjustments being possible rather than using the fixed volume of the scoops in the kits. Marty

My main goal for now is just make some average hunting loads for my own satisfaction. Seems like a fun hobby. I can see how one thing might lead to another, so I'll just get started and go from there! Marty

What Mathman and Gnoahhh say is absolutely true... as far as they went. And I totally agree with Boltman because, except for my powder scale (originally, an Ohaus 505) which I had to replace with an RCBS 1010, I am still using the same reloading equipment I purchased about 55 years ago. Ohaus now makes all of RCBS's mechanical powder scales and got out of the direct sales and retail business (I found that out when I called them to replace my Ohaus 505). And because I WORE OUT my fine ol' Ohaus 505 which I dearly loved... and I don't care for the Ohaus-built RCBS 505 as much as I liked the original Ohaus 505, so I bought the top-of-the-line mechanical RCBS 1010 powder scale as a replacement.

However, even in a sporting rifle used for hunting or personal (non-competitive) target shooting, if you can get a slight "edge" in greater accuracy... and that is what "turns-your-clock-on", why not have it?!? Since I've always reloaded for relaxation and enjoyment, getting extremely accurate reloads is an added BONUS!

Let's just say that I'm satisfied with the relative accuracy of ALL of my rifles for the purpose for which they were purchased... because all of my rifles, except for my Ruger #1 RSI in 7x57mm and my Model 99 in .300 Savage, were purchased for a specific purpose.

Therefore, I don't have any "duplicate" rifles which is the reason I'm not a "collector". I.E., each rifle, pistol or shotgun I have has a specific use (hunting, self-defense, informal target shooting except for a few rare occasions when I won some "pocket change" from another loud-mouthed shooter, etc.) or is used to hunt specific game (squirrels, rabbits, quail, pheasants, grouse, deer, elk/moose, bears, etc.) under specific conditions (deep woods, open woods, open plains, mountains, etc.).

Yet, I obtained my Model 99 and my Ruger #1 RSI simply because I WANTED them for a good many years before allowing myself to obtain them without any specific reason or use except for my personal desire to own them.

However, the one thing I demand of all my rifles is ACCURACY... and in order to insure any lack of accuracy is MY fault rather than my rifle's or ammunition's fault, my handloads MUST be as accurate as possible. Thus the need to have the ability to determine the EXACT weight of my powder load down to as small a degree as possible is very important to me.

Incidentally, I also use all the other "bench-rest shooter's accuracy tricks" when I'm loading my own target or hunting loads which are 100% of my reloads.

Frankly, I sometimes question whether the increase (if any) in accuracy is WORTH all the time and trouble I take to do such a "precision job" of reloading, but I keep thinking it is and so, I maintain my reloading efforts the same way I've done it for over 50 years.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm really not SURE my reloads are MORE accurate than the reloads that some other reloaders throws together and hopes they'll go off and hit the paper somewhere... but, honestly, I believe they are.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Therein, Ron, lies the crux of the biscuit. What works for you, and what gives you peace of mind and satisfaction is all that matters. It's all good.

That's true, friend Gnoahhh... very true indeed...

What works for me is a five group average of .57 MOA at 300 yards, and not a single weighed charge was in the bunch.

WOW !~!~! Really, Mathman???

That's kinda hard to believe, but after reading your posts for the past several years, I know you are an honest man... and I believe you, my friend.

However, I must say, I'd have to put a 5-shot, slightly over a �-inch group at 300 yards in one of those "even-a-blind-hog-finds-an-acorn-once-in-a-while" categories.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I am not a target shooter but it seems to me from what I have read, out of all the very small variables that you can manipulate in handloading (e.g. weighing your brass and loading them in batches), the very precise weighing of powder charges is lower on the list when it comes to attaining accuracy.

I am thinking we are not talking a rifle with a lever on the bottom....

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And let's not leave out how far off the lands and grooves one seats the bullet... I've found this to also be very important to "ultimate accuracy".

I've noted that "MuleDeer", the well-known and excellent gun-writer who occasionally posts here, claims that none of these "accuracy tricks" really work... and he's hard to dispute since I believe that he is truthful and he sez he has also tested his beliefs in real life.

I'm not that good. It was half minute, just over 1.5" at 300.

A "half-a-minute-of-angle" at 100 yards isn't very difficult to attain, but at 300 yards with wind and other considerations, that's a BUNCH!!!

It was a Rem. 700 XCR CT, Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 scope and the targets were 1" dots. The load used thrown charges of IMR8208XBR and 168 grain bullets. The air was cool and relatively still that day. I was able to shoot all five groups without a gust catching me off guard.

WHOA!!! Now the smallish sized groups are making a LOT more sense... that Swarovski scope is first-class equipment... and the Remington Rifle is an accurate one as well... but an $1800 "Annie" is the ultimate accuracy rifle, in MHO.

You didn't indicate the caliber or powder load... but looking at the equipment and group size, I'd guess a .308 Winchester?

It's a 308, and the charge was 42.8 grains IIRC.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Not familiar with that powder since I don't have a .308 Win. Is that size charge (42.8 grains) even up to the "published" suggested starting load of that powder with a 168 grain bullet?

This is also starting to make a LOT more sense to me. My Lyman 55 Powder Dispenser will "throw" load after load within 1/10 of a grain of powder with boring consistency... a load as good or even possibly BETTER than an individually-weighed load when weighed by an "average" reloader.

I thought you meant you were "dipping" your powder load.

Start is 39, max is 43.3 on Hodgdon's website.

I'm using a Redding BR-30 measure. What I was getting at is there's mostly no need to weigh charges to a gnat's eyelash. If your Lyman 55 does that well for you then you're all set to load straight from the measure too.

I'll be away from the computer for a few hours, but I'll check back later.

I purposely set my Lyman #55 to throw a powder load 2/10ths of a grain "light", then I "dribble" in (between my forefinger and thumb) the last 2/10ths of grain of the powder in question to slowly and accurately bring the scale's pointer up to "0". The balance beam is magnetically dampened.

As a result, I've gotten pretty good at guesstimating the amount of powder a "pinch" of powder gathered and held between my forefinger and thumb gives me. Very often, I "hit-it-right-on-the-nose" on the first try.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.