There are many here that most likely think this of me but today, I sealed the deal. Here's the story. How many times have I said I hated cases that were of one particular caliber yet were head stamped another? Well, I am shooting 22 HP stamped 30-30 Win. I never considered annealing cases to reform. Today I did THAT. I said I hated post mil guns, yet I own ONE CE unfired, NIB. So naturally I had to have a PE to go with that. I always said I couldn't understand the fixation of the .284 Win. Today I bought one and It's a beauty. 98% or better.. The owner was so intent on teaching me more that he pulled all of his PE's and DE's to show me the variations of engraving. In the teaching guns were laying everywhere. After the long drive home in miserable weather, I started taking pictures to post here. All of a sudden I saw .308 WIN instead of .284. I called the owner back and he is beside himself. Neither of us know how the mix-up happened, but it did, I just called him back and found that he sold me his ONLY DE in .284. I feel horrid and offered to squash the deal. He said no way. He said he sold me the gun fair and square and it stands. I dumped a fair amount of cash, but the .284 is about the rarest on calibers of the DE. He even sweetened the deal with this. I took pictures of the wrong gun. Taking pictures is when I realized we totally screwed up Actual pictures will be tomorrow.

I couldn't live with myself. if I were you I'd sell it to me.

plab

I'm a little confused by the story. You thought you were buying the 284, but came home with a 308? He willingly sold you his only one not realizing it was his one and only? Anyhow, sound slike you got it straightened out. If you want to be shocked, go shoot that 284 at 400 yards.

I loaded up 100 284's today for the next couple seasons. I've always said if I had a chance to buy a PE in 284 I'd make it happen.

You are sort of right. he has a number of .284's. Most are PE's and only one other DE that is blue.He was showing me the tremendous difference in engraving. We were passing rifles back and forth and somehow i ended up with the one I have here now. By lunch time it will be back to "normal". The only thing is now that my WIFE wants me to settle in by buying a PE as well. What a gal.

Sounds like massive confusion,mixed with savage excitement !!!!

Sounds like a Great Day All & All, and you ended up with a Great rifle! I went to a local gunshow and there was a Cased set, and a Mint 300"T" there!

Proof - "Never say never"


This maneuver in some circles is known as "bait-n-switch". Question here is, who done it??

Would it be possible to acquire some detailed pics of those DE & PE's? The thirst for knowledge lingers...

What do PE and DE mean?

Page 95 of David Royals book gives excellent details AND pictures of the PE and DE. There was no bait and switch involved.

Sounds like all's well that ends well. Congrats on what would appear to be a neat find!

Just waiting for the phone call

LBK, tell us what you find out about all the differences in engraving. I understood there was an east and a west version. Does that mean for each, PE, DE, CE, or ? And a blued one?

I will post pictures as soon as I have the gun.

This is a subject I want to cover in detail in the engraving book if I write it. Pages 98 and 99 in "A Collector's Guide to the Savage 99 Rifle,..." show the variation of the engraving on my two PE's.
The PE is presentation grade and DE is citation grade, the CE is the centennial edition. The PE and DE are highly embellished DL's available in 243, 284 and 308. A little over 500 of each were produced. The PE has more intricate engraving, very high grade wood and hand checkering. The DE has simpler checkering, lesser grade wood and abominable stamped checkering. I swore I'd never buy a DE because of the stamped checkering but gave in after I decided to try to buy all the models. We debated what all the models were on another forum and I guess I still don't have all the models and never will. It made buying the DE a little more palatable because it is a 284.
It has been fired and since I've decided to change my display to one table of pre-WWI 1895's and 1899's I may put a scope on it and take it to the range.
The CE has a removable magazine, has engraving similar to the PE and the animals in the engraving are gold plated. It was produced in 1996 only and 300 Savage caliber only. Advertising said 1000 would be produced. Ron Coburn told me Savage produced about 1800 due to high demand for the rifle.
David

I know of 1 special order .308.

Mike, with Savage there is always an exception to everything. Thanks for posting that. I heard about it but didn't remember. 73 year brain doesn't retain things as well as it usta.

Sheit stirrer!

Nuthin but the facts, mam.

The facts are real fuzzy with Savage.

You should always do what Nan says. especially if she says to buy another Savage.

I don't know that things ever were fuzzy, I'm thinking diabolical. I can just visualize every few years the guys in engineering getting together with the guys in the shop and plotting future confusion. The meanest thing they did was to never let the sales and marketing people in on it, so there is no documentation in catalogs.

Looking forward to LBK's follow up pics.

Drifting a bit, but, still PE, DE talk...

Welp David, you may want to book a flight to Maine for some edification.

Misc. tidbits, opinions & thoughts to be sorted thru and/or substantiated;
- 99PE, 99DE, 110PE, 110 LH PE = ~1500 total
-The DE had East & West Trees also two different size scenes
and three different finishes
-The PE has two different scenes and two finishes
-Have seen one PE blued
-early PE/DE went to Germany. They got behind so later ones went to Japan

In conversation with David's contact Don May, who had a Marlin engraved in Germany by Gustav Kirchner in the 60's, Kirchner claims he was one of three German engravers doing work for Savage at the time.
That may explain some of the differences in patterns, styles and execution of the engraving.

Pictures added to the first post and here





And here are the two together.

NIB 99 CE and the DE that I bought yesterday. One more to go and that is the PE. Already in the works.

YOU know that is exactly what I will do.

I would like to see those. I think I know who they belong to. If he doesn't want his name in the open forum PM me with the answer.
John Allen had quite a collection of DE's that he sold to some guys in Texas. I asked John if he would ask them if I could contact them but never heard anything else.

Dave, diabolical is a definite possibly.

I will say that I like the execution on the rifle(s) depicted, and the wood is as nice as one could ever rightfully respect on a factory rifle, semi-custom or not. Most of me likes them, a lot. I just can't get past the Monte Carlo stocks- but that is not a reflection on anything but myself. (I realize the utility of the high comb for scope use, for those who gotta have a scope...) That is the main reason that if I saw one at a show I would run and get the Savage guys I'm with to alert them and not buy it myself.

I hear ya gnoahhh......

Me thinks I owe U so many lessons in life:

1. Spiced Rum......got me off the beer, gluten free baby......morning wood....I know TMI!

2. You can't own em all......but U can own em all once .......very wise!

3. Unless U gonna scope.....U don't want a high Monte Carlo Deal! Tru dat.

4. A sahweeet 99 E in 303 in 1920 era pencil thin barrel is da bees knees! ( a 300 can be also if you chop some barrel) IMO.

5 U don't really NEED a scope!

6. It ain't cool 2 B a troll!

U DA BOMB!

I got one out of six right.

I was told that there were only 13 rifles that were blued. I saw one on Saturday and if you saw a different one, that's two. The one I saw was also in .284.

The "east" vs "west" is actually conifer/pine trees versus deciduous trees, as far as I know.

Thought JA had told me once there were 12 blued PE's, but not sure how accurate my memory or his research was.

Traded a M70 for a 284 DE a while back.Gaudy like a CE,so out they went.They look like what Vito would hunt with on "The Soprano's".Still a post-mil no matter what they do to it. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../6430035/re-de-284-came-home#Post6430035

Long beard king

Your photos finally loaded on my pathetic internet.

WOW!

U must B most pleased. Well done!

Well done Steve! Even though You've tripped over to the dark side LBK, with blingy post-mils, formed cases, and all (..just a short stumble to tuning triggers now..), You are reaffirming the Savage collector's axiom for all of us, "never say never"!

Done tripping. I had the CE for quite some time. There is no sense having one without the other two. Now the DE and next is the PE. I have drawn the line in the sand. Triggers are for tinkerbells.

Thanks. I m always pleased when I find one I have been wanting badly for quite some time.

Very pretty DE Stephen. W/o going and finding mine because I don't remember, are the sling studs on the DE factory?

Yes. 1970 Savage catalog and page 95 and 96 in Royal's book both show them The catalog mentions them as well,

Hey Steve,
Are you coming to the Albany show this month so we can get confused together?? Hope so.
Tom

There is a GREAT chance we'll be there I need to check the date. I am going on a coyote hunt with my son on the 18th, I just checked the date looks like the weekend including Jan 26th. My answer is yes we will be there.

I ALWAYS get excited when I buy a Savage I've been looking for.. YOU know that.

Looks like you edited something out of this post. Was it the numbered vs. coding/ At any rate the wood is numbered to the metal, no codes. The butt plate has nothing. Must be an add on LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No I just type so fast I make lots of mistake and edit them out so I don't look like an even bigger idiot than normal.

I was curious how many versions of the fancy pants guns there were. East and a west for each model?

I think the East and West is a DE, only. (Correct me if wrong)

Steve, congrat's. Variations in the Savage levers is extensive. Allowing one to venture into new area of collecting and learning is what I like most.

David, we need someone to pull the PE/DE story together. We have examples of the variations but I think we still lack the way it all came together. Why the differences within each model? What serial ranges go with which changes? A lot a variation for a small production run. John Allen's collection was close to, if not complete, for variations. Good place to start.

CE's...1000 or 1800 made? I have no CE serials in my data other than the one I own and it is less than 1000 serial. Does anyone have a CE with a serial over 900 (957 made is one number I have heard from years back)?

65x here

East and West is PE

99DE





99PE

My serial number on my CE is AS00XX. David says Coburn told him that 1800 were made. My assumption is AS is for Arthur Savage.

Always heard the CE's were limited to 1000. Wouldn't be surprised if it fell slightly short of that.

Rick, I saw SN 905 for sale on an auction.

Page 108 of Royal's book. Some of it is difficult to read, but it is there if you look. Apparently not much interest in these.

Interesting then that I can google and find 20 CE's and serial numbers, and each and every one falls in the bottom 50% of guns that were made. And none fall above that. Mathematically possible, but odd.

Also odd that it's almost exactly the same number of 99C's that we think were made in Spain.

All most of us know is what we read and MOST of what we read is provided to the book via a myriad of suppliers.

I'm not saying anything is incorrect, it's just an odd datapoint. I'm a firm believer in "trust, but verify".

Something to gather data on. I'd be surprised if Ron Coburn was that far off on something pretty recent.

So on a quick google on Centennial Edition 99's, I find these serial numbers:
#12
#35
#39
#62
#6x
#271
#369
#515
#516
#590
#65x
#802
#826
#905
#954

My CE is 516.

#39 here...

Updated my list. Thx guys.

0393 here

My # is 0026 for the CE

Mine is 470. Ron's is really low. I'll have to dig into my notes later to try to find it.

Updated:

99CE serial numbers:
===============
AS0012
AS0026
AS0035
AS0039
AS0062
AS006x
AS0271
AS0369
AS0393
AS0470
AS0515
AS0522
AS0516
AS0590
AS065x
AS0706
AS0802
AS0826
AS0905
AS0954


Based on this list, I can't see how the serial numbers would go far above 1000, if they do at all. Biggest gap we have here from 1 to 1000 is 210.

I wondered about that but Ron was CEO when the CE's were produced so he should know.

Maybe someone out there is sitting on 800 CE’s....

I know. I'm trying to think of something else he might have been thinking of.. I wouldn't think it was the Spanish 99C's, nobody wanted those. RMEF's definitely not. 99DE/99PE were way too early for him to confuse them.

Maybe the 50th Anniversary 110's?

CE #620 is for sale on Gunsinternational right now for $3K. I'd hunt one of these 284's, but I won't pay $5K for one.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-condition-engraved.cfm?gun_id=101144192

Then you won't hunt with one. I never wanted a .284, I never wanted a post-mil tang safety gun. I never wanted one of those gaudy varnished up embellished specialty guns Now I have all 3. Just need to have the PE and this trip will be complete.

I've got a PE in 308, CE in 300 of course, and DE 308. Last PE 284 I saw was $3500 and I wasn't ready to buy. $5K is a good jump.

Cut checkered 284? RMEF 99?

The trip is never complete, just delayed..

When I clicked on FB's post it brought up a PE. The engraving on that rifle is somewhat different than my two PE's. If he gets $4995 it would seem to indicate they've gone up quite a bit or....
I would like to go to New England and photograph those guns. I need to sell some real estate before I can afford that trip. I could visit with Doug, Don and Dick too.
On advice of a lawyer my contract with the publisher of "A Collector's Guide..." does not apply to articles. So I guess I could do an article on the post mil engraved 99's. The PE's and DE's really have gotten me curious about all their variations. Probably a gun magazine would publish it or I could just make copies and peddle them.
I killed an elk with a DL in 284 so they work for that. But then I've also killed elk with a 303SRC, a 300G and a 308EG. It does require good shot placement and being pretty close with these calibers. My shot placement with the DL was less than ideal and I had to track it a long way. I think that was in 2005 and I covered the hunt in my usual wordy manner at that time. That's the only time I ran out of ammo on a hunt. That was scary. Wolves had been following me a few weeks before in the same area. I did have 3 or 4 rounds left in my 38. I've since started packing a 45 and I've have digressed too much already. David

I know where there is one.

Rory, I have 3 CE's AS0035, AS0522 and AS0706. Also have A RMEF # 0026.

#25 of 60 RMEF could be yours for $3K

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ge-99-rmef-25-of-60.cfm?gun_id=101146322

He already has 26, two in a row, gotta be worth twice that.

Consecutively numbered rifles... always tempting. Especially as it would just be a slightly delayed birthday present to himself!

Thanks for the numbers.

I need that RMEF to add to my other post mil blings but think the price is high and i'm short of funds anyway. I've also been a member of RMEF or quite a few years so I should have one.

That #25 RMEF on Guns International is listed for $3999 not $3000. I think I'll just look at the one I have.

I would have thought Toby started this post!

"Over the last 20 years the heavily figured wood has started to check. Absolutely stunning rifle! Circa 1998."

The RIGHT wording would be "heavily figured wood has started to CRACK!!!!

Like calling RUST patina.

My mistake.

Any chance that Savage used salt wood in their PE guns?

No.

its nice to have deep pockets

A fool and his money ares soon parted !!! Thanks Ken

I have RMEF # 0012 with the optional case. I think they originally sold for $2700 or $2800 plus $500 for the case...no discounts since it was for the RMEF.

Finding consecutive numbers in these separately serialed groups should be much easier than in the main runs.

I can't believe how you guys are going crazy over these "top tang " junks that none of you would even consider as being worthy of being called a savage much less collected my my how things change

plab

I've always liked the tang safety rifles Paul, right along with the others.

You can hardly have a "collection" of them with examples of all. The 3 or 4 of them that I will eventually have will be the CE, DE, PE, and the RMEF. I don't believe I will ever hunt with them. Nothing has changed in my mind that I know of.

Speaking of wango tango safeties!

I never knew the 110 s were 3 position. Talking fancy there eh?

Ah lawdie, the end of time's upon us!

Well maybe!!! Let's be realistic. At 74, how many more seasons have I got left I have at least 3 dozen rifles I haven't hunted ONLY because I can only hunt one at a time. Humor me. would never hunt with a valuable rifle let alone one with a gold tang safety,

It would seem then that mayhaps you need to step up the hunting pace! There's something to be hunted somewhere in the world every day of the year!

Okay, I can go along with this.

Glad I pulled myself outta that one.