We've talked about leftover Chicopee Falls barrels being used up after the move to Westfield before, but how do you explain a 1964 99F with a Chicopee Falls barrel, in .284?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795914469

Maybe leftover isn't the right term?

Barrel address stamped before the move, bored and chambered after the move.

Seems the simplest explanation.

Weren't barrels roll stamped after all the boring, threading, chambering, etc. was done? Big mystery as 7mm barrels weren't made at Chicopee were they?

That's the mystery. I am wondering what order things were done in.

One thing changed in 1960 with the move, and that is the twist on the 250-3000 barrels. Maybe there's a clue there.

I have no idea what order they were done in. I was just going with KISS.

If Fireball was inferring that maybe they took an old 250-3000 barrel with 1-14 twist and rebored it to 7mm and chambered it for 284, don't see that as being impossible.

But that raises the question of when in the process did they thread the barrel? Chicopee Falls threading was different than Westfield. Would they have had a bored and stamped barrel without it being threaded?

No Rory, I wasn't thinking that at all.

If there are any post 1960 250-3000 rifles out there with 1-14" twist but Westfield address it would mean that at least that barrel was bored and rifled before the move and stamped second.

All this is just academic anyhow, they probably did some of any and everything in no particular order!

Maybe they started making barrels in Chicopee, in preparation of new caliber offering, at the old, already set-up factory,before committing new mfg space to a dubious new caliber. Who knows what the choice was about with so many things changing all at the same time at Savage Inc.

Nice early cut-checker rifle Roy...., now everybody knows about it...

Well, it's there screaming at you, "Take me home, take me home!".

Interesting, I would have thought leftover 22" Chicopee Falls barrels targeted for 99Fs would have have been barrels with a barrel boss on them; even the smaller caliber .243 and .250-3000s pre-mil 99Fs had a barrel boss.

The early 99E barrels were 22" with Chicopee marked barrels. I would agree with Rory, the most likely reason for the barrel on this 1964 .284 99F is there was a 22" Chicopee barrel left over that had been stamped Chicopee, but had not been bored and chambered.

Also I don't think Savage had a .284 premonition while still at Chicopee,; probably wasn't even on Winchester's drawing board yet either.

Hadn't thought about the rear sight bosses on the 99F's. That's an interesting point.

Also, from 1960-1964 the only models produced were the E, F and DL. The F and DL had the barrel boss, so the initial model that could use up left over Chicopee Falls non-barrel boss barrels would have been the 99E until the .284 came along. Maybe theyu cut 24" barrels, or perhaps, they were actually producing 22" barrels in Chicopee for the introduction of the 99E .. maybe both.

Also, from 1960-1964 the only models produced were the E, F and DL. The F and DL had the barrel boss, so the initial model that could use up left over Chicopee Falls non-barrel boss barrels would have been the 99E until the .284 came along. Maybe theyu cut 24" barrels, or perhaps, they were actually producing 22" barrels in Chicopee for the introduction of the 99E .. maybe both.

I don’t see manufacturing to be an exact science and think that “one or all of the above” answers could be correct. Years ago I bought a steel M1A scope mount from Smith Enterprise that they were selling at about half price. When I called to order one and asked “how come so cheap” the guy on the phone said they found a barrel of the mounts in the back of the warehouse that had been left over from an old contract that just needed to be parkerized. So they were parking them on an as needed basis and selling them cheap. Having said that, my theory is that back in 1964 Savage had a crank on the assembly line who said he was going to use an old set of stamps just to mess with these guys in the future who will be talking about it on a thing they’ll call the internet. Point is I think there are a bunch of logical hypotheses and no real way (short of possibly examining the factory records) to prove one correct or incorrect.

There was another thread back in 2008 on a 107xxxx 99F .284 with a Chicopee barrel here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2160281/2

My replacement 22HP barrel with the Westfield address has the early flat threads, so they must have been able to do both?

Oh yeah, they would rebarrel earlier receivers and could match the threading. That's not that difficult for a big machine shop from what I understand.

But if the Chicopee Falls barrel had been threaded before the move, it would have the flat threads like premils do. But a 284 receiver would have the V threads of postmils. Would they, or could they redo the threads? Just have to guess what they did, and why. Maybe a bean counter found a spare pile of old EG and R barrels and forced the production line to cut old style threads in enough receivers to use them up.

Hate bean counters (generally, not specifically ).

PS: Let's face it. The LOGICAL thing to do with a few old Chicopee Falls barrels would have been to put them in the service shop and use them to rebarrel old 99's sent in for refurbishing. Now if they had 5000 of them? Well then...

Years ago Gun Parts had a small pile of Savage 99 barrels, including the elusive 7mm-08. So I'm sure old parts hung around the factory until somebody one day said to clean the place up and maybe get some "beer money" for all those old barrels we won't be using anymore.

Unrelated to the barrel stamp

Cut checkered 284 isn't an easy gun to find as we all know.

That is a nasty tang crack...

None of the factory new 99 barrels from Numrichs had stamps, as far as I knew.

By stamps, do you mean SP proof marks or a barrel address.

More complications. Here is a 24" Westfield marked 250-3000 barrel that is a square threaded TD barrel. It indexes perfectly with an 1899 complete action, straight lever, early post 90,000 serial #. I also have a crescent buttstock and a forearm that might fit. All I have to do now is see if it's 1 in 10 or 1 in 14. This kind of thing is going to turn me into a tinkerbell. Do you guys think the action is strong enough for full house 250-3K loads?
250-3000 marking and cool old Marbles rear sight.

Westfield barrel marking

square threads and TD groove

David

I wouldn't fire .250-3000 rounds in a receiver that I didn't know was heat treated for it.

That's what I was afraid of. The twist rate of the barrel is 1 in 10.

Free your inner tinkerbell David, sprinkle a little pixie dust and you can FLY! ...but I'd save that barrel for a later receiver with square threads and round-back bolt

Whats the front sight look like? I have a Westfield 24" 30-30 takedown barrel and it has the 1928+ larger integral raised ramp front sight.

Dayum, these square-threaded Westfield barrels are coming out of the woodwork!!

Who knew?! Seems someone poked a stick into a little obscure piece of Savage history that bears further investigation.

Damn it, where’s Sherman and the Wayback Machine when you need them?!

Find a later cheap 99G to put it on ... would make a rare 99G that can shoot heavy .257 bullets accurately.

Oh dang.


Not!

You can get that receiver heat treated. There are several companies out there that will heat treat your receiver. Unfortunately when my previous computer crashed a couple weeks ago I lost at least 3 internet addresses of firms that did heat treatment. The internet is your friend. IIRC one of them was maybe Blanchard in Utah. Search for "heat treat" or variations on the theme.

On giving this some considerable thought I decided that what I need is a 99F or 99G in 300 Savage that has been drilled and tapped and that is CHEAP since it's collector value has been ruined. This will give me a two barrel set with a scope. At first I thought I could use a Stith or Lightfoot mount but then I couldn't change the barrels quickly. Darn! now I need to buy another 99.
Heat treating wouldn't hurt the other action it's already white. I think you guys thought it is a squareback. It's an early rounded receiver, serial # is something like 141xxx. I have a real early 303 octagon barrel that probably should be rebored to something like 38-55 that could go on the early receiver. David

Oh yeah, David is tinkerbell material. Whatdaya think JeffG, should we induct him into the exclusive club?

I'm an idiot. Mine's a Chicopee Falls 24" 30-30 takedown with the larger raised ramp front sight. Not a Westfield. Now ya'll have to unprogram that thought from your heads!

The front sight on my barrel is the 1955 and later dovetailed ramp. It's also interesting that it's a straight tapered 24" barrel. The only regular production 24" Westfield barrel was the lightweight barrel for the early 99DL like my Chicopee marked barrel. Boy, is this getting convoluted!

This all makes sense if you don't think about it...

I think they did whatever the hell they wanted.

Roy hit the nail on the head. I may do an article for the CGCA newsletter on this subject. I'm hoping to see a gunsmith in Rock Springs Wed. I mentioned before I want to pull the barrel on the DL and see if it has square or tapered threads.

Large volume gun manufacturers have been opening and closing facilities, changing management and product lines since the industrialization firearms ("military industrial COMPLEX", says it all). I don't think these subtle variances represent any more than some product/process changes and normal evolution of a manufacturing business. And it's not just we gun loonies who get lost down these rabbit holes!!

Hang on Boys! Winter's almost over!!

Left the DL with the gunsmith to take the barrel off and check the threads. Should know the results in the next few days. David

Geez Louise, David. All you needed was a vise and a pipe wrench.

Maybe you have to look at why factories stamp barrels in the first place. There’s a reason why that information is there and I’m sure it has more to do with federal laws than it does for advertising and the entertainment of historians. Maybe the stamp in itself was more important than the accuracy of its information. I’m just spit ballin’ here but maybe it had something to do with things like taxes and protecting patents than it actually had to do with where the part was made. Maybe in that context Savage didn’t give a second thought to a Utica stamped barrel going out of Chicopee Falls. It’s just we who might be imposing a different kind of imprtance on it.

I'm betting my DL has the post mil threads.
S99VG brought up a good point although the government wasn't messing with things like this much until 1968.
The Browning Brothers stamped Savage 1899's they sold with their address which was probably just advertising. I think I heard they stamped Winchesters also and probably all the guns they sold. This is a fun topic but I bet we never get the whole story.

They have been fighting this fight, albeit maybe not with such lack of reasoning , long before 1968.


https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act

Yeah, it just got a lot worse in 1968.