I am trying to find out when the one I just picked up in a trade was built. It has the Dec 25th 1906 patented dated on the octaconal barrel so its after 1906. The serial number is 144612. It has a scope mount marked N5 with a nice clear Mossberg no. M4D on top.

That is a later one. Should have the later 1914 style forearm. Probably made right before WWI or right after. GeneB might be able to get it closer.

The N mounts were not made till the late 40's, early 50's if I remember correctly.

PS... advise to not use high speed ammo. Stick with standard velocity or lower.

Thanks Rick. I'll try to post a few pictures tomorrow. It is a pretty slick little rig. The glass is clear and the bore is nice. I'm hoping it all checks out. It should be a fun little tree rat killer with standard ammo.

Here are a few picture. I broke some clays at lunch with it at 20yards off hand with some Wolf target ammo. I had a couple misfires but it cycled them fine.

That's super nice. What scope and mount is that? Must of been a blast to shoot, did you try any shorts in it? Didn't know I wanted one till now.

The mount is marked N5 and the scope is a Mossberg M4D 4 power

I've always loved a .22 pump gun. When I went to the county fair as a kid I spent most of my money at the shooting gallery with those things. There was plenty of opportunity for thrill rides back on the farm if you got creative.

Nice!

Typically on these early 22's the end of the firing pin is quite a bit larger than used on more modern guns and this can cause it to misfire. When these were made rimfire ammo was loaded in softer copper cases and a larger firing pin area was more reliable and less likely to pierce the soft cases. The brass cases came into use with Hi-Speed ammunition which needed something stronger. I have several older 22's that have had the sides of the firing pin filed down to make them more reliable. Compare the firing pin mark on the cases with those from a modern 22.

As mentioned yours is the version introduced in 1914 and the stock attachment was a weak point, typically most will have at least some small cracks starting behind the trigger guard and often some serious cracks. It's also hard to find an example of these with the original stock finish, instead of just stabilizing the cracks most seem to feel the need to refinish the stock, I'll take original with any cracks.

Steve99 has been keeping data on these, based on his serial number data (and my math, which I hope's good) the 1914 style 1903's would have had a production between 6260 and 8310. This is a small percentage of production, the highest serial number I know of is 146995 but this number includes the Model 1909's.

I am not a fan of the side mounts, but they do work. You will notice that they are made to mount on the part of the receive not solidly attached to the barrel, which could have some play, recently there was a Model 1909 at auction with the mount on the right side, It had an opening milled in it for the ejection port.

Thanks for the replies and info!

I have one with a Weaver T5 mount (would have preferred it didn't), here it is with another of the 1903/1914 style, even with the issues these are the best two I have been able to acquire -


This one also had some factory repair work done sometime after ~1931~ when Hi-Speed ammo was offered, that's when it got the warning stamp -

I think the factory work might have been a new barrel, the barrel is crowned which they did not do until after WWI and it has an earlier type rear sight.

Here's where they crack (if they aren't cracked be very suspicious. it's the norm!) -

Both have cracks starting and the one has had the stock replaced, the original was repaired & refinished and all the edges were sanded undersize, I wanted it to 'look' more original, it's has a special order 26" barrel.

Here's the original wood from the one with the 26" barrel, you can see just how thin the wood is and the way they attach with the screw at an angle puts stress right at this weak point. You can also see the rounded edges that look worse when on the gun.


They have different slide arms, the thick version is early.

Thanks Gene! Great info and Nice rifles! I'll look at mine a little closer tonight.

I guess this rifle is in the norm. The butt stock and plate are matching.

Thanks Gene for your help.

I have 4 of the 1903's.
None have cracks.

Question on the high-speed ammo warning.
What is the concern with high-speed ammo?
I can't imagine a 22 LR can do much damage in a worst case scenario.
Thoughts?

Bob

Are your 1903's the 1914 versions which are the ones being discussed? I would find it hard to believe you have even one of them without cracks, the ones pictured here are the 1914 versions and have the same stock design as the Model 1914's which also have the cracking problem. I have a number of this version and some 1914's and of all of them the only ones with out cracked stocks are a couple parts guns that don't have a stock!

What makes you think there would be no concerns shooting higher pressure ammunition in any gun not designed for it not matter the caliber? I don't think Savage would go through all the trouble of making a warning stamp if their designer did not see issues. I have a number of older 22 parts guns with damage to the locking surfaces which I think had to be due to using ammunition they weren't made to handle. The Savage 1904's are often found with the bolt handles welded or brazed back in and sometimes with cracks in the receiver, the last 1904 produced were stamped "REGULAR CARTRIDGE" under the caliber stamp as a warning against the Hi-Speed, several Stevens models are stamped the same. I have the added warning stamp on a couple 1903.s, a 1912, a 1914, an early 29, a Stevens 75 pump and a Stevens No 10 pistol. Marlin had to strengthen the bolts on there 22 lever actions in the early 1930's due to cracking caused by the new ammunition.

coondawg

The closest SN I have on file with a date from a factory letter is SN 146995 dated in May 1922 so yours would be a little earlier but can't say with any certainty. But if you were to claim either 1921 or 1922, it would be hard to argue. You can get a factory letter from Savage if you want that.

Enjoy that oldster, try to find a RF shoulder arm that loaded from a detachable box magazine designed in 1903. Yous looks all original except for the scope and mount. As Gene and Rick have said standard velocity or target speed ammo only. Find some shorts, the slower ones if you can, and try them out, a lot of fun.

Steve, I think SN 146995 might be wrong, I think it is mine that I sent you the letter data on with the May 1922 date and I have the serial number as 146955 - I might have sent you the wrong number. Either way both numbers would be from the supposed run of 1000 made in 1922, other than the last 1000 all 1903's were pre-WWI so there was no production after about ~1915~1916~ - his gun would be before then. I find the 22's made before WWI will not have crowned barrels. 146955 lettered as part of the closeout of the 1903's sold to Hibbard, Spenser & Bartlett co. of Chicago, this is also where the closeout of the pistols inventory went. I acquired another one from the last 1000 that's higher - 147287.

Getting old ain't for sissies! Between seeing it on the log and typing it in the post the 5 turned into a 9. Thanks for catching that Gene! SN146955 is the correct number. And based on what Gene says about the the 1000 that were completed and sold to the hardware company, his estimate of 1914 or 15 is as good as any.

coondawg, don't lose track of the magazine. If you do, a replacement is a little spendy. Yours is a nice looking rifle.

Gene, I've added your new number to the log, thanks!

Thanks for the info Steve and Gene! It is a fun little rifle.

Steve whats the earliest you've got in that area?

I own 1434XX, just wondering if it was part of the last 1000 or not?

MD, I don't know where the information on the run of 1000 in 1922 originally came from, but it seems accepted by most sources and the few examples I have seen back it up.

Accepting the 1000 run as fact, based on the two numbers I have, the serial numbers of these can be narrowed down to fall in the range from 146288 to 147954. These last 1000 would have crowned barrels and the matte blue finish on the receivers instead of the earlier high polish. The one pictured above with the warning stamp is 1452xx and it has the high luster blue - but it also has a crowned barrel, but I think the barrel is a replacement and was the work done to it in the 1930's when it got the warning stamp added.

Here is the letter for 146995, notice there is no mention from JTC of it being in a run of 1000 and he also mentions a production number of "over 150,000", serial numbers do not back that up and the Model 1909 production was serial numbered in with the 1903's and part of the total. (The size of the image had to be reduced to use the attachment option, so it's not very good.)

I've got copies of sales from 1919 to 1925 I got from Steve (Savparts) years ago stating the same.

1920 - 2 1903's

1921 - 3 1903's

1922 - 1088 1903's.

Hey Joe, good to see you around again. If you still are looking for a response to your question to me, let me know. Looks like Gene took care of it. With regard to the "over 150,000" number quoted from JTC's letter, in looking at the log there is a 10- 12 K gap in the log from about 18,500 to 30,000. There is no other gap like this in the log. Those numbers would have fallen into 1904 and 1905.I suppose it could be that no one has reported, sold on GB and an auction house any 1903's in this range. If anyone has a 1903 in the 20 thousands, I'd like to hear about it. Likewise anyone having a Model 1909 boy's rifle above 112,500A, please let me know. These had a different buttstock, forend, sights and barrel but were otherwise the same mechanism as the 1903. JTC thought that was the last 1909 he had a record of.

I have 19782, it's has a replacement barrel that was done sometime after 1914 because it has the longer 1914 style forearm without an extra dovetail in the short position and it has a later barrel stamp. This is one of my favorites because the long forearm makes it look more proportional. I thought I had given you numbers on all of mine, guess not! I also have a number of receiver parts that I've never look at for serial numbers, I'll have to do that, might be something interesting. I have one 1909 just over 112,000, it has the second style ejector, the ejectors are the only variation in 1909s I'm aware of.

Well you guys got my curiosity up i knew i had a rusty parts gun? s/n 3329 i cant find a model number anywhere on it. I do have a 1909 in the 106,000 range. Don

Gene the last number before the chasm is 18693 so I'll add in your 19,782. Yeah even parted out receiver numbers will help fill in the hole. We know the first Model 1909 SN was 101,000A per a JTC letter from Oct 2015 to me.we think and so did JTC the last was 112,500A.

Don if you can't find a model number on it, pretty sure that will be a 1903. I'll add it to the log, Can you say whether it is S,L and LR or short only?

And Merry Christmas to you all.

And good news to report. Lu and I are finally grandparents as of today. Baby boy, everyone doing well. Never thought it would happen and very happy it did.

Steve, Great for you guys becoming grandparents!! The rifle is marked short,long,and long rifle its complete minus the buttstock. Don

Thank you Don. I expect we'll be at the hospital tomorrow.

Congrats, Steve! A blessing for sure!

All this talk of 1903's has my blood running hot. Truthfully I've been getting a little bored with 99's and have not much love for Savage's other offerings but the 1903 always intrigued me. New Year's resolution: to correct that and acquire a couple 1903's and explore that world for a bit. Y'all really are a pack of enablers, aren'tcha's?

gnoahhh thank you!

I would like to thin the herd. I'm sure we can work something out after the holidays if you want to.

PM me when you don't have a baby in your arms!!!

SAV22
BEEN A COUPLE YEARS I HAVEN'T SAID A THING BUT. RICK IS ON THE MONEY ABOUT A LATER MODEL OF A 1903 MODEL! THE FOREARM IS THAT OF A MODEL 1914 LATE MODEL 1903. THE 1903 MODEL HAS A VERY SHORT FOREARM
FIVE INCH IN LENGTH. ALSO THE BUTTSTOCK ON THE MODEL1903 HAS ROUNDED PISTOL GRIP NOT A TYPE LIKE THE TRUE 1914 MODEL AND A CURVED METAL BUTTPLATE NOT A SHOGUN TYPE. THE THING I SEE THAT NO ONE SAID A THING ABOUT, IS THE REAR RIFLE SIGHT MOST DIFFENATTEY A MODEL 1914 TYPE NOT THE EARLY 1903 TYPE. MAY BEEN PUT ON AT A LATER DATE?