This should be a fun discussion. I've never had a deer take one step when putting a hole through them in the high shoulder area with any of my rifles. Always straight down to the dirt and DRT.

Where does everyone else like to hit 'em?

I've shot them there when I wanted them DRT, but I dislike the meat loss. Most of the time I go for a shot through the ribs and lungs which usually results in a short sprint.

If they are headed in the general direction of the truck I like the heart shot.
If they are headed generally away from the truck I prefer the high shoulder shot.

[quote=Featherweight6555] If they are headed in the general direction of the truck I like the heart shot.
If they are headed generally away from the truck I prefer the high shoulder shot. [/quote

Good answer. High shoulder shot puts them down right there. If your worried about some shoulder meat loss. Don't shoot them in the meat.

And if you're a half mile from the truck gut shoot'em and push em hard! LOL

Whatever lethal bit there's a clear path to through the trees, limbs, brush.

😂😂

That’s where we’ve always shot them (Dad/myself/brother/son). As you say, they fall and die, right there. We shoot just a few inches in front of the shoulder/front curve of shoulder, at base of neck.

The one time I’ve had to take a different shot (quartering away, about to take off), and put it behind the shoulder, to hopefully come out in front on the other side, the deer managed to make it a few yards (unfortunately, 20 yards, to a relatively steep canyon rim, that turned what would have been an easy recovery into quite an ordeal)....

I used it this morning to anchor this tiny spike. He was close to the fence and I didn't want him to cross it after I shot him. A 6mm Rem loaded with a 100 grain Sierra boatail driven by H4831 dropped him immediately

If I hit them high shoulder, it’s generally a bit of a fluke. I’ll shoulder shoot a buck or a boar if that’s the shot I’m given. I’m trying to avoid shooting up meat on does and sows.

That’s a pretty rifle.

Been thinking about trying that shot, but it’s seldom that one stands still during our rifle season, and I don’t want to booger it up.

I don't like to waste meat so I always try for right behind the shoulder through the lungs.

Shot a doe like that yesterday morning with my Jambomatic in .308, destroyed the lungs and the top of the heart, she ran about 30 feet and dropped.

High Shoulder aka - Spine - is my preferred

Frontal Center Neck is just as good.


Jerry

Shoulder for me. I'll give up a little meat loss for DRT.

Did it jam? Mb

Depends where I'm hunting pipelines,open woods lung shots if it's thick cover cut over high shoulder. Also time of day high shoulder at or close to dark.

That is my preferred shot, but will neck shoot sometimes.

Usually double lung. If I have to destroy the shoulder, high shoulder it is.

I hunt by the fence, only shot to use

yep preferred shot for deer.

Mach3: I would NEVER under ANY circumstance intentionally shoot a Deer (Elk or Antelope) "high in the shoulder"!
I have seen Deer, Elk and Antelope that other people have "shot high in the shoulder" and the results are disgusting and wasteful.
PERIOD!
If a person has time to "shoot a Deer high in the shoulder" then that person has time to correctly shoot said Deer in the heart/lungs avoiding the shoulders and the wastefulness of that.
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I’ve done it and sure enough they lock up and fall over like flipping a table, I audibly laughed the first time I saw it…. Pretty funny.

but it did damage more meat so I shifted to neck shots for the most part….

Now if I’be not been shooting enough- or don’t trust the firearm, I do what Varmint guy doesn’t and center on the vitals..

Lighten up Francis.

High shoulder 4 life!

It hasn't yet, still waiting for it to happen.

I slip it right behind the shoulder....no way I'm wasting meat for absolutely no reason.

It's a good shot, if you've got it.

Been on my hands & knees crawling through prickly pear, mesquite following a virtually no existent blood trail in the Texas hill country. Kept a lookout for rattlesnake the whole time. No thanks. High shoulder shot for me.

If the deer does not present a high shoulder shot, do you pass on the deer?

One of the major advantages of "monolithic" bullets, such as the Barnes TTSX and a bunch of others, is they "waste" almost no meat, even with the high shoudler/spine shot, yet drop 'em right there. This is because they don't fragment nearly as much as lead-cored bullets.

Apparently many hunters still haven't realized this, because they've only used the same bullets for decades. The other factor, which is also obvious after somebody's used monos is that you can use a significantly smaller bullet, which will still kill very well (especially with the high shoulder shot), yet ruin very little meat.

A good example would be the pronghorn my wife killed on opening day here in Montana. She shot it through the shoulders at 200 yards with a 70-grain Hornady GMX from a .22-250, started at 3300 fps. This would ruin a LOT of meat with a typical lead-cored bullet, but the antelope dropped right there--and we lost maybe 2-3 ounces of meat.

But whatever....

I take whatever reasonable shot I’m offered. Dead is dead and little bit of lost meat if far preferable to losing an entire animal.

On the mono metal bullet theme, I prefer them for hunting when I can get them. Sadly they are really hard to find now.

I`d 10X over purposefully ruin shoulder or neck meat rather than the heart. I do tend to aim for forward lungs though if the right shot is presented that will take the lungs out but not the heart.

Most "ruined" meat is just superficial surface jello anyhow, unless frangible bullets at high speed or bone shrapnel is involved.

I’ve been a slow starter on the monos but was pleasantly surprised when a 120 TSX in a 7mm-08 broke both shoulder bones of a 150 lb buck and did not destroy the surrounding flesh. Didn’t mean to put it there and knew I was a little forward when I shot. But as MD says, it sure works. Next deer was a doe that was hit with meat in mind at the rear of the shoulder, no bone. 50 yd dash and done. Many of you have more stories than I but I’m sold.

Lots of factors left out on your part. Location, hunt conditions, shooting over bait, from a blind, etc…

I have no idea what your experience level is. Your question leads me to assume it’s limited and location specific.

For me high shoulder works, but is not a one size fits all solution to shooting deer

It's true about the heart. Right up there with tenderloin around here. I don't know anyone who eats the lights, though.

The family favors the shoulder shot. The kids are strictly limited to broadside on calm animals. I take the first make-able shot presented on older bucks.

Lighten up Francis.

High shoulder 4 life!
———————————



Hear! Hear !

PREferred doesn’t mean ONLY.
Center neck is just as reliable, deadly & instant.

I specified ‘spine”’ In my post.
Spine is above the shoulder meat.

“sheesh” to you VG.

Jerry

I always try my very best to put it in the front half. If it happens to be high shoulder I’m good with it. I absolutely crushed a buck yesterday with a shot through both shoulders. I was pleasantly surprised at the minimal amount of meat lost considering it was relatively close range with a 130 Scirocco at warp speed out of my 270Wby. And like Tinman says, I’d way rather lose some shoulder that’s to be canned or ground than the heart.

I have done high shoulder it drops them with any adequate for deer caliber. About like shooting them in the head.

Preferred for me depends on where I'm hunting. If I walked in going up the mountain (majority of the time) I really like lung shot deer. If I walked in going down the mountain I'm a HUGE fan of the high shoulder shot.

Regardless of what I prefer, the shot I get is what I take...time is very limited and in most cases if I don't take the first clean, ethical shot there won't be another chance. Last two weeks have been hard quartering to me angles. One from the ground shooting up the mountain, one from a stand shooting down the mountain. I'm using cup/core and in both cases the near side shoulder was pretty ugly on damage.

I should probably give more TTSX bullets a try. I've really only used them in .224 calibers. Cup/core's have been good to me but I can see where the trade off and less bloodshot meat on shoulder shot deer would be a pro for the TTSX.

I hit a mule deer doe at approximately 212 yards with a 140 AB high shoulder shot out of 7mm-08. She was dead before she hit the ground. No blood or anything. No tacking either.

It's my preferred shot. I will gladly give up that 5# of silver skin and connective tissue infested meat for no tracking in a wooly ass creek bottom or having a deer cross a creek. And no I don't pass if all I have is a standard lung shot, I just shoot em like I would with a bow and watch em run for 30-50 yards wondering how far into the bottoms or down in a ravine this ordeal is going to take me.

Plus like others have said I get to keep the heart for slicing and frying, liver too even though that doesn't get messed up with a lung shot.

if i get this perfect shot always the high shoulder , but my biggest set of antler buck i only had one quick shot got a Texas heart shot he went down real fast with a 100 gr, Swift A-Frame at 30 feet with my 257 Weatherby mag. buck dressed 217 lbs. probably would score close to 200 B.C. non-typical and i would do it again with a Texas heart shot if i have too. i lost very little meat when it went thru the bung hole.

#varmintstooge
#sheesh

Anywhere in the magic triangle puts them down. We all do well to intensely study the anatomy of the game animal.

i blast right through the shoulder pretty much dead center usually. front shoulder is stringy tough meat anyway and i use whatever is left for jerky. they don't go far if at all with that shot. if i was using something lighter like a 223 though i'd go for lungs and heart. but its rare that i am hunting with anything less than 35 cal.

Agreed Ky221. High shoulder for me as well.

I’ve only had one high shoulder hit.....very impressive! A hurried shot very near dark, I quickly “guesstimated” the range at 400 yards and held high on the shoulder! I hit where I aimed....finding the range to be only around 300 yards....my “zero” distance!

My much preferred shot is behind the shoulder taking out the lungs.....a much larger target area. It may not be an instant kill......but, is very effective! memtb

So you that say "high shoulder" I assume you mean through the shoulder blades? Looking at a deer anatomy it looks like I would need to hold in front of the leg, maybe 2/3rds up the body? I have been a " behind the shoulder" guy ever since I shot my 1st deer in 2001, most run 20-50 yards, though some go further. Just not sure where on a deer I should hold for said shot. Someone care to enlighten me?!

I think I was marking the exit on this deer. Ideally I like to be a little higher but this buck was still drt.

Something like this but my mark is a little large. Center that mark and they never take a step.

What kind of range do you all normally take that kind of a shot at? I'd have a difficult time mentally trying to purposefully hit that high.

With most of my rifles sighted in 2-3" high at 100 yards, for the shot ranges that many of you whitetail hunters seem to take, I'd have to sub-conciously hold low. Hit just a couple inches higher than intended and you'll be nicking the spine, at best.

On this buck I would normally align my vertical crosshair with his near side leg and put the horizontal about on the level of the bottom point of the diamond. That gives the greatest margin for shooter error or wind or whatever you want to blame it on. It’ll hit the scapula and more or less center the lungs. Sometimes it drops them and sometimes they’ll run but they don’t run far.

This shot wastes a little meat on the neck, and just a tad on the shoulder, but no deer run. I like higher powered scopes for this shot, and if you shoot high, you knock the deer down and it may get up as you approach it...maybe. 22/250 and 243 are supurb rifles for neck shooters.

Was wondering when someone was going to say this. If you're holding on the vitals and your shot ends up 3" high, you're still in the vitals. If you hold for this high shoulder shot and are 3" high, you've either paralyzed or permanently disfigured an animal. Wonder how many times higher the incidence of wounded or lost game is with people attempting this...

T Inman;
Good afternoon to you my cyber friend, I hope the day's been a good one for you so far and you're well.

I'm with you on purposefully aiming that high. In my case it came from more than half a lifetime of shooting cup and core bullets behind the scapula and old habits not going gently into that good night.

While I have hit a couple in the upper scapula and spine, it's usually because I've once again either held too high overestimating the range or underestimating how flat the bullet will be travelling. It's worked on all but a couple occasions for me where the buck was knocked down initially, then got up and left - unfortunately not to be found by me.

We've had really good results breaking the knuckle joining the scapula and ulna or either side of it.

I liken it to taking out the front differential in a 4x4 - it might coast for a short ways, but not too far.

So much depends on the hunting conditions too I believe.

Just this morning my neighbor and I were up chasing late season whitetails on the mountain behind the house and we both commented on their scarcity this year as well as how thick the timber is where they seem to be. In those conditions we're typically getting bits and pieces of the animal to shoot at, not the broadside presentation we used to get on the Saskatchewan whitetails coming out onto the alfalfa for instance.

Anyways, as always there's many roads to Mecca and all that right?

The terrain and conditions where you and I hunt might be so dissimilar that the only common points might be that we're both chasing the same species and using rifles, but otherwise it'll make for fairly different methods I'd suggest?

As always, I like to read how other folks in other areas hunt for just that reason. Swamps for instance are usually small hanging lakes way up the mountain where moose hang out here, with a noticeable lack of large reptiles such as our 'Fire friends in the south east might experience.

All the best to you as we head into shorter days my friend. Stay warm and well.

Dwayne

This shot waste very little meat and drops them on the spot.Just an inch or two above the center of the body,tight up against the shoulder.If the animal is at an angle,aim where you want the bullet to exit.I find it's better to shoot the animal broadside or quartered away than quartered towards you.This deer was shot with a 7mag,150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

You too Dwayne. Good luck with those late season whitetails.

I tend to aim for the most forgiving spot, as I am not exactly the best shot in the world and doubly so from field positions and with my heart pounding.

Add to that---cliff edges or blowdown canyons---much like private property borders, and I often am willing to take a short death run vs a quicker death but smaller target. Sometimes not though, depending on lots of variables and especially distance to those bad areas. It is all situational, I guess.

100 yards or less. I haven't shot at a deer over 50 yards in my last 20 or so kills, in fact I bet I haven't shot at any over 35 yards.

This is my typical hunting set up.

High shoulder slightly forward hits the brachial plexus, a major nerve center that drops the deer in its tracks when shot there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_x9vR_0KM8&t=93s

Get some of the Safari Press Perfect Shot targets and see if you can make it before you try it on a deer.

I would recommend the “ shoulder shot” as in the front leg and the middle of the neck. ( where they would intersect)

I usually hunted woods in relatively small plots of farm ground with fenced property lines in all directions not too far way. My hunting areas also often had large overgrown blow-downs and limb piles left behind from logging along with huge thick mazes of blackberry and honeysuckle to deal with, so whenever given the opportunity, the high shoulder 'DRT' shot was my preferred shot. The older I got the more I preferred it. Most were taken with 130 grain .270s and in my experience meat loss was relatively negligible.

As always, YMMV...

In the wide open areas of Montana, I would agree with you. However, here in South Carolina, a high shoulder shot or a neck shot if under 200 yards will result in a found deer without a LOST deer. THICK Woods, crops and laid out areas are stupid thick here and there are untold lost deer annually from "right behind the shoulder" shot.

I shoot for double lung, broad-side. I have never had a deer move from the spot, except for a doe shot with a 50-70 Govt and sofft lead bullet. In that case the slug went right through and she took a few wobbly steps. Likewise for a .54 cal rounball load in a muzzleloader.
However I have always used larger calibers.. 35 Rem (with 180 JFP), 356 Win, 33 WCF, 338ME, 45-70, 450ME, 12 gauge slugs. Mostly the 45-70 loaded with 300 JHP

Why waste the heart?
Better eating than a shoulder full of silver skin and connective tissue.

Wasteful?? Chickens and hounds need to eat too.

Agreed

I simply do not understand this logic.
I'm generally a boiler-room proponent (partly because it presents the most margin for error) but if one is using a stout bullet and wants to work the shoulder, there's generally not a big loss of meat.

Regionalism is often overlooked by members and it's apparent here – small confines due to property boundaries, hellish cover, time-of-day, etc. makes for different decisions on bullet placement (and bullet choice) than what others might be accustomed.

Varmintstooge occupies an awfully small bubble and his insular mind thinks the rest of the world follows suit.

I know this is a deer thread but the point is the same — I took my last 6x6 bull with a high shoulder shot because he was behind a little ridge that obscured the bottom half of his chest.

A 7mm, 140-gr TTSX shattered the first couple vertebrae of his thoracic spine and kept going. Absolutely no significant meat loss and have made this shot on a big zebra, gemsbok, as well as deer, and other elk, and wouldn’t hesitate again.

It’s almost always an immediately anchoring and deadly shot, and without too frangible bullets (almost all have been with mono-metals), have not lost significant amounts of meat either.

After a few PMs with MuleDeer a few years back I swapped to this shot and have been very happy.

I was skeptical on this idea for shot placement so I dismissed it for years . Last year I decided to give it a try , I am now a believer . I am not much for change ,but after I saw the results I try to take all my deer with this shot now .

Once again I completely agree with MD. It’s been my experience with countless animals that what MuleDeer says is absolutely true! All of my “meat rifles” are tuned for either the TSX or TTSX.

Very wise IMO chudly.

Wasted meat is one thing, lost game another.

If you wanna have less meat damage, bigger heavier slower boolits will help that deal.

I thought this one was termed nicely.

I tried for this result this year for the first time & while my placement was a bit further back Roughly 3" The results were devastating instant death. In this case the cartridge was the 6mm Arc w a 108 gr Berger Elite hunter. Shot distance was 254 yards plus per laser range finder. Meat damage was minimal with this quartering away shot that took out the lower portion of the spine.

Simply will never know what would have happened If The shot would have been 2" lower. reason I am a bit concerned is the tissue damage was very minimal Even with the diagonal hit on the lower portion of the spine. Near as I can tell the bullet expansion was very minimal. Like said earlier instant Lights out on what I expect to have been a 300 lb'ish live weight deer..

If that cartoon is anatomically correct. I am not sure it is…….

It’s a spine shot through the scapula. The brachial plexus , a branch of the nervous system…I think plexus is a branch of the vagus nerve , lies beneath the scapula, so in essence you are affecting two parts of the CNS with the shot.

But personally I don’t believe the scapula and humerus lie that far foreword in relation to the rib cage.

The meat loss sucks with that shot…but it’s kinda fun to see them drop in their tracks!

FWIW I have never had a problem tracking, finding, or losing a deer with a bullet through the thoracic cavity. Lots of blood trail, no oxygen to the brain, and one dead deer in short order. Every time. No exceptions. Ever.

Yeah, I'm just overjoyed when people can kill the thing at all. I've seen way too many fruitless tracking jobs. In the ear, Chicago neck, through the heart, whatever. Just kill it.

high shoulder 100% of the time that it is available.

I have never lost one either, But I know some folks that have. a couple of them more than once. Several found a day or two later. No meat recovered only the Rack.
PRIORITY#1 Drop/kill/recover the deer. Losing some shoulder meat is secondary imo.

My son recently (last Friday) shot a nice doe through the shoulder with a 450 Bushmaster. 2” diameter exit hole, both shoulders crushed, it ran about 30 yards and dropped. How it didn’t drop right there is beyond me. The shot was just under 80 yards. Man we lost one full shoulder completely but we’re able to get almost half off the other. I myself prefer double lung but it is what it is.

It's been my experience that the quickest kill shot is one that either takes out the central nervous system or one that causes an instantaneous loss of blood pressure.

No CNS hit.

Reverse that. .223 through the shoulder blades puts them straight down. Haven't caught a Fusion yet, in over I think half a dozen deer so far. A couple were over 150#. Sometimes the heart/lung gives you a blood trail more like bowhunting with w 2 blade broadhead.

Where I am, distance to the deer, wind, position of the deer, how steady I am, time to make the shot, and other conditions dictate where I shoot.
In a perfect world, I like quartering away shots and I shoot for the off shoulder (many years of archery).

Yep that’s my philosophy and quartering away aiming for off shoulder is my favored shot, but for rushed broadside shots in areas where the deer has to hit the ground fast high shoulder is lights out.

Hit a buck high in the shoulder this year with a 450 Bushmaster...250gr TTSX @ 2350fps.

I was maybe 10ft in a stand and about 50yd shot.


You can guess what happened.


Straight to the ground like a train fell on top of him.

Apparently many hunters don't get the "high" shoulder shot--which includes the spine. This means placing the bullet about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the body, directly about the legs--at least with most North American animals, including deer and elk. If the animal has a distinct "shoulder hump" (like bison, and several African plains game animals to a greater or lesser extent) then 3/4 of the way up may be ABOVE the spine.

"Breaking" both shoulders (especially just the shoulder blades) doesn't guarantee anything.

I aim for the big part.

Ain't you ever heard? Aim small, miss small......grin

Exactly, sometimes you shoot far enough forward and shoulders aren't hit, just spine.

Kind of why I classify it as high and forward of the vertical leg line.

I usually aim for whatever I can get.
This last one I ruined most of one shoulder
unfortunately. It still ran some yardage, I
would guess because deer can function like
nothing else if they get that adrenaline shot,
and they're always unpredictable as to how
they react. Still, bottom line- I shot it, it died,
I carried it back, I cut it up, and brought it home.
Everything else is superfluous

Just me- I don't worry too awful much about what
others do as far as their hunting details, and want
them to leave me to my own devices as far as my
methods and choice of prey as long as I'm following
the laws set forth by the state

Many of you have never hunted.the big woods where you take the shot you get.

I've always shot center shoulder....if I dont hit one shoulder I missed my mark...heres the problem with a high shoulder hold.

With a high velosity long range gun sighted 3" high at 100 yards a high shoulder hold could likely cause a shoot over at 200 yards.

With a high velosity long range gun sighted 3" high at 100 yards a high shoulder hold could likely cause a shoot over at 200 yards.

[/quote]

I have missed so many critters that way! I went to the +3 when I moved out West, wide open spaces intimidated me! Now I never, ever, zero more than +2"@100 and usually its only +1" for the fast movers! I "tend" to want to hold high when they are around 300+yds away. That's what growing up in the Big Thicket of SE Texas did to me, ha.

There’s nothing so heart warming as an old man watching his well hit deer run down a steep ravine.

I had it happen one time....actually just grazed the deer and knocked him out for a minute.

i grew up reading Bob Hagel and Jack O'Conner.....3" high sight setting for me....do or die.

I hunted the first 30 years of my hunting career with a 7mag, 3" high at 100 and nosler partitions. Obviously before the first rangefinder was ever made. When you know what your bullet is doing at various ranges, and know how your reticle subtends, killing stuff a ways out there isn't as hard as you think. I've never been one to just want to SWAG it on game animals.

I am sure the high shoulder shot has it's place but it risks destroying the 2 front quarters. I aim a rifle the same place I aim my bow - right through the vitals.

And hunt? Like in on my feet all day hunt? Not from a tower with a heater?
Come on, man!
It is too thick and scary in the dark timber!

"Gotta have my loudenboomer and hubble scope with twisty-turrents and flip covers!"

What makes you so sure?
Because someone else's experience or self discipline concerning shots doesn't match yours?

I try to avoid major meat when I shoot. I hate butchering on blown up shoulders full of bone fragments.

If you hit where the cartoon shows the back strap might be goulash

Depends what I get for an opportunity. I generally like it if I’ve got time to plan it - especially if the animal needs to stay right there (property lines, rivers, cliffs etc) but there are other times when that doesn’t work out and I go high percentage of some sorta angle thru the boiler room.

Silly logic. You lose a pound or two of meat on a shoulder shots if you know how to cut one up. Probably less if you take your time. And it's burger meat or stew meat.

I'll poke a hole at the best place the deer gives me to the vitals. However, I'll take the shoulder every time, first time, if it's given.

Agree

people have asked me about where i aim and I always say the biggest part i can see. I hunt in the Adirondacks.

I agree 100 percent , anyone that Claims they worry about wasting meat on a deer does not hunt,or does not shoot deer.

Probably not high enough but Federal Blue Box 150 gr 308 worked pretty well.

I used federal blue box 150’s out of a .308 this year and reeked havoc on that deer. Hit just in front of the shoulder and followed about 12” of spine and exited mid deer, splitting the spine in 1/2. They worked to say the least. Lol

STFU. My point, in case you missed it, was that in thick woods hunting with jumped deer more often than not one takes what one can take. Wait for a perfect shot and you're probably going to wait a long time.

I am assuming we all love to hunt deer,

We all like to eat deer,

We all abhor waste,

Me thinks:

1. Study true anatomy……..not cartoons

2. Practice, Practice,Practice.

3. Do the best you can.


Ed M
That’s a perfect placement IMO

Happy Holidays

Testy are we? I got your point: I didn't miss it.

I can't say that I always take what shot I get, even when in "big woods", but whatever.....have a good one.

You mean like in a lodge pole thicket, pick up sticks for a mile, and reprod six feet tall covering most of it. Or hunting the Oregon coast where at times you can see fifty feet. Na never hunted the big woods. Never hunted from a tree stand. Shoot the boiler when possible, but right up the bung hole works, when you have seconds to fill your tag, or eat tag soup! The high shoulder works well if you have time. Hunting conditions dictate shot placement. In Southeast Alaska I shot one right in the nose looking at me, it's all I could see nose face and horns, forty feet and thick vegetation. Conditions conditions!

I swore off neck shots ages ago. Friend still uses them. Always dropped the deer but way too often has them lingering. Tried a shoulder shot I heard so many elk hunters touting and saw what to me looked like a horribly painful death albeit a fairly rapid one. A lot of thrashing and kicking. I can do without feeling that cruel again. To be clear this was not the high shoulder shot being discussed.
I have double lunged deer who never knew they were hit. Most react almost as if it was the sound of the shot rather than being hit. This year I shot straight through the heart and deer went maybe twenty feet. I do think bullets matter and Sierras for me have been quicker killers than Hornady's or CoreLokts. Just my experience.

It will be hard for me to change up something I have gotten so used to over years and have aimed to perfect. It adds a bit of anticipation and bragging rights when cleaning a deer to see if the heart was severed or not.

I won't knock what works for someone else. Many don't get the amount of time on deer that I enjoy. After taking deer year after year after year their is no urgency for me. I enjoy the time out there.

A center shoulder shot will get the lungs and high shoulder breaks the spine. I don’t see how either of them is any more cruel or painful than a behind the shoulder shot since you’re destroying the same organs.

I’ve hunted and killed stuff in all kinds of terrain from open tundra to lodge pole thickets and briar patches. Head shots to TX heart shots but I still try to shoot everything in the front half. It’s a big target with some margin for error.

I do find the easiest way for me to coach a less experienced hunter on making a good shot is to have them line the vertical crosshair up with the front leg and put the horizontal in the center of the chest. Yeah it wrecks some burger or jerky meat on the front quarters but generally not too much and it offers an easy to find and large target. I find myself reverting to the same aim point when I’m in a hurry or excited. It works.

Well said

It is my belief the heart lies just dorsal to the sternum with the atriums covered by the front leg .The atriums lie a little more elevated than the distal portion of the ventricles which stick out caudally behind the front leg ( humerus).

It is also my belief that due to the volume and mass of the rumen the front leg shoulder is further back than the anatomy cartoons show and the lungs are pushed further foreword than the hunting anatomy cartoons show. It is my opinion this miss information leads hunters to assume there is more vital tissue behind the front leg than reality .This can lead to gut shot animals.

As I explained to my three sons years ago, imagine a balloon inflated inside the deer's chest cavity and think about popping it, from any shot angle, worked then and continues to work for me now, rarely do I get a clean broadside shot but happy when I do.

That's the analogy I used with my kids as well, except we compared it to a internal basketball you had to pop with your bullet.

I think I posted this before, but Safari Press sells great targets for learning this. With my kids I had them learn and practice all the shots and angles. Eventually they should take whichever shoot is best at any instant as they become more confident.

The great thing about those targets is the kids see which shots they are best able to make. They started with taking only broadside heart lung because they had the most confidence in making that shot. I wanted neck shos but they said no.

Now you can't talk them out of high shoulder. One will let a deer walk if she can't get it. The other will only shoot heart lung if he has to.

The nephews were told cantaloupe.

touche!
aim small, miss small

And you both totally did not understand the post.

About 340 yards. 30-06, 150 gr Corelokts. Bang,flop, whack- or maybe bang, whack,flop. I don't remember. CNS shots put them down similarly, but too small target area at that range.

Can't go far wrong just aiming for the off-side shoulder, either. Same, same.

I've shot lungs, heart, high shoulder, neck. If a deer is short range 50 yards or under and standing still, I shoot the neck. DRT.

If a deer is bedded at 413 yards, with his body obscured by yucca, I'll shoot the neck too....

Oh yeah, nice shot.

Perfect kitchen shot. Congrats. What caliber and what bullet? The stock, is it a McMillan?

6.5 creed, 140 Amax. Stock is Manners EH-6A

Latest example...7mm-08 140 Accubond



High shoulder is my preferred...Perhaps a little forward here, but not sure what the ground did to the hide hole position...When rolled over the hole was the same size and high shoulder. Have shot more than a few with high shoulder and few have taken a big step. However, most often you get little blood to trail if one does.
A Doe made it about 40 yards over a hill, and if there wasn't snow and an infrequent drop....she may have been lost.

As far a meat loss...the .22-250 with a Barnes has messed up more than the 7mm-08 and .308W with Barnes or Accubond. A max pound or so of shoulder meat is a good trade for maybe having them pick a direction you don't prefer.

Addition: If they are on the move, then it is front third and hope for the best..

For VarmitGuy...

Meat loss would have been one more package of ground meat....Max..
Sheeze!!!!

It gives the least leeway for error. The highest wounding chances with error.

I go middle of vitals. No meat ruined basically. Ribs a bit blood shot depending on bullet.

Deer don't go far. And since we used to almost exclusively bow hunt you expect deer to run a bit.

if we are close to a fence we have permission to look if needed. But I despise hunting on fences close to neighbors. Its just not right.

I know thickets too. Hands and knees ones. BTDT doesn't bother me a bit. Its fun trailing em.

Waste of meat. High shoulder doesn't waste that much meat really. Can hurt the backstraps too.

But with center lungs high heart ribcage shot life is good. Most leeway for error and still kill. Only one for us.

Neck has to be perfect and its a weird target to hit the spine, its not always center of neck.

If I need or want DRT or a deer thats not a mess to clean we head shoot em. Once we figured out the only way to head shoot we've never had an issue. Even the few before that that evidently lifted the head as we shot were recovered with a bit of trailing.

Mostly though its rib shots. Dog gets mad when we don't have a trail to follow.

how people can't see the most room for lethal error is about where the U is left and right and center the height on the vitals there so under the U is beyond me.

Those that can consistently hit a small spot like on the diagram can easily hit the brain too then and more power to them. We prefer most room for error and least amount of meat damage

Head gives the "least leeway for error" and as distance increases it doesn't get any better...

thats so close to over the spine if not actually over the spine but the shock broke the spine....

High neck

Yeah, high neck is super deadly. I've shot deer in a few different body parts. Center of shoulder, high shoulder, behind and low of shoulder, neck, etc. They all will kill quickly but, most of the places I hunt are surrounded by very steep hills. I want my deer to drop right there. No running. I usually shoot for center or high neck. Killed a bunch like that and it never has failed me.

Sometimes a neck shot is all you got.

I have 2 like that where both main beams almost touch.

I think that using a CNS type DRT ending leaves the carcass with blood in the carcass.

I believe my best eating is arrow harvested game………if they die within seconds of being shot.

I postulated it’s because they are bled out………kinda kosher……..

You gut them and what blood is left in the body???? Relatively little is left in the meat..And there will always be some,
if they die within seconds of being shot. No different than if they die within seconds of being arrowed.. They only bleed out if the heart is pumping for longer than a few seconds.

Addition: Just finished a roast from the above Deer....Corn and acorn fed. Tasted excellent.

Excellent and a very good Deer....

Bullet broke the spine. High, yes, but bone shards don't lie. Another "miss", dammit!

I agree, but makes little difference in the eating. But it does make some. Of 20 something moose, some were lung shot, some were head/neck shot. A good representative sample. Along with over 75 caribou to date..

The best eating moose was a "yearling" that took a 12 guage slug through the very center of large artery just under the spine, back edge of shoulder area, leaving arterial wall on both sides of the hole. A bit high... Missed bone, slug never expanded, exited. He was running, at 35 yards, at the time, and made it about another 100 before tipping over in mid-stride.

He was so bled out his meat was very pale. Aging process didn't hurt either - he was hung outside for 6 days under the spruce, with a tarp over the pole to keep sap, needles, etc off. Low 50's in daytime, dipping below freezing at night. Just enough crust to keep the flies off, with enough mist, fog, or light rain time to time to keep the crust that way.

I ate the last piece of him 2 years later and it was better than that I'd killed just a few weeks before.

That's a really nice deer, Skeen. Congrats.

Boy that is a dandy..👍

I am with you las bled out game tastes best.


But you gotta find em before they spoil.

Let's back outta here and come back in the morning to find him...... Celabratory drinks all night and high-fives when we find him......

just like on the hunting shows.....

I’m a lung buster. Always have been, always will be. I’ve done the high shoulder shot a couple of times on closer shots. I just see too much margin for error up there. Bust the basketball and go get them after the death dash. I’ve never lost a lung shot deer after being shot with a rifle. Top of heart/lung area is a sure death.

I don't care about meat loss, as I give away most of the deer that I shoot, but unless they are looking straight at me, I prefer to shoot 'em through the lungs. If they are looking straight at me, I shoot 'em in the center of the neck.

On elk and moose I prefer to shoot them in the shoulder to anchor them for a follow-up shot.

I've seen more than one elk that had been fataly shot go far enough to make the retrievel harder than it would have been if the first shot had broken one or both shoulders.

I helped retrieve a moose from an almost frozen beaver pond because the shooter was admiring his first and only shot, rather than continuing to shoot it until it was down. That moose didn't go far, but it went far enough to be a PITA to retrieve and I'm a path of least resistance sort of hunter.

If I'm understanding you correctly, that seems to me to be the most difficult shot to take, with the least room for error. Not a shot I'd take. But maybe any miss off center would be a clean miss?

I don't know, I've never missed that shot.

I have never been disappointed on high shoulder shot results. Usually down instantly and the handful of meat is not missed . I usually aim for ribs and at the shot wander back towards the shoulder , either way , the outcome is good. In open country where I hunt the results of a short sprint are still in sight so a non issue. As i hunt both deer and antelope , the same shot results in DRT , I believe the spine rides a touch lower through the shoulder area on antelope. so that is taken in to consideration also.

Doesn't take that much to find a dead deer.

Nope. You can still blow a chunk of meat off and not have a vital hit. Works well when you center though. Wife uses center of the white throat patch a few times. Thats about as low on a neck as I'd care to go.

That is THE reason I went to cns shots on moose (here) when I can get them. I once did not find one that was lung-shot for 10 days (by following my nose to the remains). In the 6 or 7 hours my partner and I looked for him, until dark, we both passed within 15 feet of him numerous times, including our first pass along that hilside maybe 15 minutes after the shot. He was well dead by then, of course. He had gone about 90 yards - no blood trail - and we lost his foot trail where he turned off the game trail in some heavy grass, maybe 40 yards from where he lay. Other moose tracks in the trail... Finally we convinced ourselves I'd just flat missed the @ 200 yard, offhand shot (I got caught in the open, with no rest). No sign he had been hit, didn't hear a bullet thump. Good sight picture at the bang... It was a good shot that went to crap from there. A perfect storm. 30+ years ago, and it still bothers me.

He would have been spoiled by the next morning anyway, but we still made a few more passes across that second-growth, brush and deadfall choked hillside, to no avail, before leaving that weekend's hunt. We literally had to force our way through the 8' -10' second growth birch.

As Slum said - they will head for the thickest, nastiest cover they can maybe reach - and they always know where it is! This bull had fallen in a 10' circle (perimeter of an old squirrel midden I think) of bushy 8-10 foot high spruce surrounded by head- high matchstick deadfall on all sides, which diverted us around the spruce clump. It was a chore just getting over/through the deadfall to even reach the spruce. When I found him, I literally could not see him until my feet were touching the remains as I stepped through the spruce screen. If I knew then what I know now, we would have found him. Hard lesson.

The bears appreciated him, anyway...

That's when I decided cns placement had a huge advantage in those conditions, and that any cover that was "impossible" to penetrate had to be thouroughly inspected.

The next bull I shot was 53", shot just under the antler base, at @ 40 yards. Went straight down, with his legs under him, wedged between two 3' high tussocks. I was solo, so THAT was a lot of fun! My first "gutless" dressing out. Sort of.

My moose hunting area here on the Kenai has/had an average of visibility of perhaps 30 yards +-. There have been times that I could only see the downed moose when I was just a step or two away, after I'd dumped him on the spot with a cns placement.

In more open country, I'll try for the center boiler room placement most every time, at any range. For the margin-of error factor, as well as bleed out. And I like the blow a hole to daylight thing. As my pic above indicated- that was a "miss". . Didn't need to dump him in place. But I'll take it.

We do salvage the tongue, heart and liver from our kills, per someone's post about heart-shots. I and the dogs are the only ones that will eat heart. They all make great doggy snacks, tho we usually have several meals of fresh liver, before slicing and drying the rest for treats. Sometimes I'll make a sandwich of heart, while waiting for the dogs to entirely consume it as a few treat pieces in their dry. It's marginally better, with mustard, than a PBJ when I'm in a hurry for lunch. The Dachshund thinks tongue is the best ever! He ate a whole caribou tongue when my wife put it down, thinking he'd only eat until full. Wrong! He was pretty miserable for a time.... Some folks swear by tongue for sandwich meat, but I don't care for it.

Some people like "guts" more than we do.... . More power to them. The alternative to feeding those parts to the dogs is to leave them in the field, in case anyone has an objection to feeding "game meat" to the dogs as described. Probably wouldn't hurt to bring the kidneys out for dog snacks, either, but haven't done it yet. We aren't required to salvage anything but the meat itself, but we do.

It's for the children.....

I have to get a moose again - that will keep the dogs in dried liver snacks for several months! Probably bring the meat out too.

I used to be a lung buster too. But, after shooting a few and they ran to the bottom of a holler, I said nope. If I hunted an area that is fairly flat, I wouldn't care if they ran 100 yards,

Are you a CNS shooter?
I have seen plenty of shoulder shot deer and elk run a short distance to hell holes or deadfall nightmares before dying.

This.

CNS must be hit. Down low in shoulders doesn't mean much unless you can connect on both ball joints.

High shoulder shot this year , holes in the lungs . Things happen to bones and organs being hit at that speed Experience is the best teacher .

Dandy Don!

do your deer pose for the shot. mine don't. also, i have to admit that i don't always hit my aim point. still, there's more than 1 right way to shoot.

I like the neck shot a lot, and have killed a bunch with it but, you do have to have the deer standing still or barely moving. I have grunted and bleeted at a lot and stopped them for a shot. My brother in law likes the high shoulder shot a lot.

If your trailing skills are that bad I'd rethink hunting.

Just saw the results of the neighbors high shoulder shots twice the last 7 days.

Two bucks, both big chunks taken off top of back what would be high shoulder if they hadn't gone over the aiming spot a bit.

Aimed center of lungs top of heart both would be dead.

Good for us actually as neither buck needed to be shot. But thats another issue.

Their loss. Bit of pain and illness for the deer. Will be a big scar there in a bit. "

Had not seen one of those in some time. But it sure happens.

Sounds like poor shooting/bullet placement to me. I can't even begin to count the number of deer, aoudad, antelope, etc I've killed with what I call "high" shoulder shots.......2/3 up body through shoulder.

It is poor skill. They hit higher than they wanted.

But they didn't take the largest target. Had they taken the large target those bucks would be dead right now.

You have to be good if you are going to smaller targets with less room for error.

Last night late antlerless season w/ 45 cal ML & SST sabot she dropped and did a little kicking’:



When broadside is what I got high shoulder is what I take. This was a little further back than I like but she didn’t go anywhere

Please do not try that with one of these; This hunter did with his 30-06 and the PH had to use my .405 WCF to take it down. That bullet hole does not show as it is between the front legs.

Bang! Flop. Didn’t even kick.
My oldest step-son’s first deer this afternoon.
Shot distance 250+ yards.
X-Bolt .308, hand loaded Barnes 130 grain TTSX

I like your way of thinking!

Trump approves of high shoulder shots

https://imgur.com/a/1kwIEGx

I learned that lesson the hard way muzzle loading. With the muzzle loaders I used high shoulder dropped them, but double lung meant a 100 yard track through a swamp. I don't aim for the shoulder with centerfire, but did with muzzle loaders when I still used them.

We hunt a place in wv. If you don't drop them on the spot you're in for a very hard recovery. I've learned to like the high shoulder shot

I shot a doe last yesterday afternoon. It was headed towards the truck about 300 yards away. Took the heart shot. Dang deer ran towards the truck into the damndest briar thicket around. I look like I've been in a fight with a circular saw. Got her though!

I prefer the high shoulder shot myself.

Mach3: I absolutely would NOT shoot any Deer "high in the shoulder"!
I have observed how wasteful this is and it can and should be avoided at all costs!
Shoot the Deer through the hear/lungs and it will be dead in 6 - 7 seconds and well bled out!
This will improve the QUALITY and the QUANTITY of the meat.
Virtually NO meat will be wasted using this shot and NO bloodshot to deal with.
Again, NEVER shoot a Deer "high in the shoulders" - PERIOD!
I have Hunted Deer (including Blacktail Deer, Mule Deer and Whitetailed Deer!) for 63 years now (I am 74) and the "drt" mentality has never come to mind for me.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG - STFU. Men that actually hunt a fair bit are conversing here.

BTW, how in THE hell did you spend a career in law enforcement (where I assume report writing is a necessary part to the job) and not figure out how to construct a paragraph?
Hold into the transition words.

There is more than just the 'drt's, that has escaped that pea brain of yours.

Hold into the airhead!

Have taken 67 Whitetail and Exotic, management animals this season so far, all but 1 were DRT, guess where i shot them?? still have 2 more months to hunt and i am not changing my shot placement now. Rio7


Who was it that said ? do your hunting and tracking before you pull the trigger?? Elmer?

In the front half ey?

There is somebody I'd be proud to NEVER have hunted with.

How much shoulder meat is "wasted" when a moderate cartridge is used on a high shoulder shot at "woods ranges" ( call it under 100 yards)?

Cartridges such as: 30-30 /170 grain, 300 Savage (165-180 grain), 35 Rem/200 grain 45-70 350-400 grain 1500-1700 fps...to a "" high end" velocity of ~2500 fps and 180 grainers ; jacketed) such as a 308 Win.

???

Minimal to none.

Good grief.

Doubt he gives a schitt what you think.

Same deal with smaller, faster cartridges using monolithic bullets.

My wife shot this one through the neck. 20 yard shot, no tracking involved. 7mm-08 hand load with a 120 grain Barnes TTSX.

Jack, ya might be taking that comment a bit too literally.

Ya !

The Kid's good to go & welcome at my campfire, any time !

Okay, I've got to comment on the size of the exit in Lonster's picture. Everything I've read on here has been saying that the 7mm 120 grain TTSX is a pretty stoutly built bullet, but that exit wound looks rather substantial. Like most of you, I'm always looking around for the best whitetail bullet and a TTSX could be in the running because lead chips shouldn't be in the menu. Last season's buck needed his neck broken for a finisher, but a 140 grain BT didn't open up as big as that one looks.

May have hit the spine. Of course there was no tracking. Don't need a Barnes for that.

Tracking is highly over rated, Rio7

I was a skeptic on the high shoulder shot right up to the time I tried it. Only concern now for me now is the fact that the target size is not that large. Going forward if property lines are a concern the high shoulder shot will be nice to properly employ. if property lines are not a concern & distance & or steadiness of the shot is in question. Well the heart lung is a fair bit larger target.

Ill most likely employ each in years to come though CNS shots will more often be the goal if the shot & rest is one I am confident with.

I don’t find the target area of the high shoulder to be all that small.

Have used it from real close to out a little past 300. Farthest any have gone is perhaps 50-70 yards. And that was only one Deer.

It looks to be around a 6-7 inch circle that will work.

As long as you don't use soft explosive bullets it doesn't bruise up that much meat. I do it with a 300 Weatherby and still have some shoulder meat left to grind up.

The back edge of the front leg and halfway up the chest usually takes out the lungs and hits scapula. It comes close to the spine, which nearly always results in DRT. That’s my version of the high-shoulder shot.

Unless pursued by dogs almost every deer I've shot that remained ambulatory turned around and went back the way he came.

I had the opportunity to use the high shoulder shot my last day in the woods this season. I had a shot at a doe right on the edge of some thick cover. She stepped out just before dark. I was already packing up getting ready to leave the stand. I had just put my binoculars in my pack. I grabbed my gun to leave the stand and saw some movement about 75 yds out. I got her in the scope and confirmed that it was a legal deer. I thought almost dark and thick cover, good time to use this shot. she was quartering away at a pretty good angle. I put the crosshairs high on the shoulder and squeezed one off. She dropped in her tracks like a sack of potatoes. Didn't even twitch when she hit the ground, DRT. 6.5 Creedmoor with a 143gr Hornady ELD-X. Clean pass through in the shoulder and out the base of the neck on the opposite side.

To my mind that isn’t all that high but what do I know. I would call that a shoulder shot.

Years ago I watch film of a guy shooting a bunch of game in Africa and he was shooting everything spine height or just below at the shoulder. So when I see “high shoulder” that’s what I think of, wrong or right.


When I stopped and thought about it, the only ones I’be had turn around and go back the way they came were ones I missed.

I honestly can't remember having one turn around and head back after being shot. Everyone that continued on after the shot headed in the direction they were traveling I believe

cas6969, That's higher than I usually shoot them. Here is the exit hole in the base of the neck.

I can't ever remember a deer turning and going back to where it came from. Regardless of where it was hit or with what gun

I get a great deal of pleasure shooting them right through the heart. Short run with a very easy to track blood trail. If I’m doe hunting (meat) hunting and I have a very steady rest (I’m sitting in a box) and the range is short, I’ll shoot them right in the head. It’s so much nicer to field dress them when they are head shot.

Describes it very well….and is a fairly large target area.

I get a lot of enjoyment seeing the deer headed to the ground after the shot in my scope. And not having to look for them in some thorny briar patch.

I hold very slightly above halfway and back edge of front leg on direct broadside for my version.

If the spine is broken the shot hit higher than I intend and the bullet slapping the scapula below the spine really seem to stun the CNS. Today I learned that the brachial plexus is a thing.

Bleeding is good because of the large arteries close to the spine and the heart seems to stop from blood loss not CNS damage.

Very little meat loss with VLDs and as Tim said I will trade shoulder meat for heart/liver on a 4 to 1 basis.