I am curious how many people have hunted them and if you ever hunted Eastern Whitetails yes their is difference?

Sitka blacktails, Columbia blacktails, eastern whitetails, western whitetails, Couse whitetails, muledeer -- all species and subspecies have differing behaviors. One of the great features that makes hunting fun... .

Dennis

The only deer I have hunted is blacktails. Killed about... 22 of them I think now. But who's counting.

I may be hunting a primo mule deer tag this year. I have the points, it's just whether I want to do it this year or not. To be honest- I'm a little skeered <grin>! I know how to kill a blacktail every year... not so sure I know how to kill a mule deer in the sage & juniper.

Wow, JO's count had increased by 6 in a year, lots of Oregon tags.

Easy when you shoot into bushes.

I've hunted blacktails every year since I started hunting except for two. Hunted muleys those years. Never hunted a white tail.

I have hunted here in Oregon, of course for blacktails. Several good sized ones taken. 175lb, 210 lb and one about 235 pounds. ( all well fed suburban deer, fatten'd up by California transplants feeding them in the backyards..)

I've also hunted whitetails in Minnesota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Virginia and No Carolina.

Blacktails are definitely more challenging..

I haven't hunted outside of Oregon, but from what I see on TV I'd have to say Blacktails are more challenging mainly because we don't have feeders set up in front of heated shooting stands every 100 yards.

Zing!! Now there's a can of worms!

Blacktails, here in the Willamette Valley, tend to move around, depending on the season/water and food dependent. So, be ready for them to disappear, once you find them.

I agree, access is the key issue. As forests have been turned to clear-cuts, the deer like the early-successional stages. Then, after while, the brushy mess grows together and chokes out the light and food. Finding open land to hunt (non-private) is also a huge issue.

The main thing is stealth and patience. They're not magical. Just learn their pattern and don't move much; or, walk around like a hiker and they won't fear you.

Good hunting!... Ken

I have hunted several deer species, and there is definitely a difference. Blacktail in California, Oregon and Washington; mule deer all over the West; and whitetail in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

What is harder depends on where you can get access...jim

I hunt blacktail at over 4500' elevation. I'll be up there this year in all likelyhood. I'm not very good at it, but at least there are mature bucks to hunt.

Think I've about 50 blacktail racks in the rafters (two buck annual limit).
Look forward every single year to the pursuit.
This year especially due to the sheds found recently on new turf we hunt!

This one looks like a Booner.






Hello Baltz.
I've spent quite a bit of time in LaPine.
Got family there.
Taken some pretty damn nice muleys there over the years as well.

I have hunted them on and off for about 40 years. I have never hunted White tails so I was curious. I have tried to hunt a specific buck a couple of times and have never been able to pattern them. I have kept charts and weather and wind patterns ect. I got one but not where I expected to see him go figure. I have never had the experience of hunting on farm land only Timber company. So I was just wondering how they compared. Because I think hunting big BT bucks very difficult I have seen mule deer and shot them in the same area but Black tails just seem to ghost away some times.

I have hunted blacktails all my life. I think that they are one of the hardest animals to hunt. It is easy to kill a smaller buck 2 or 3pt getting an old mature buck is very difficult at least here in western washington. I am not sure if it is there habits that make it difficult or the amount of brush terrain that keeps them out of site most of the time maybe a little of both but I think that ghost is a good way to describe them.

It's been many moons since I hunted them in the Willamette Valley (1975). I started hunting mulies in Eastern Oregon and got used to spot and stalk. The terrain in Western Oregon makes hunting them a unique challenge. The vegetation is very dense and they appear/disappear in a wink. Move very slowly, stop often and glass.

I grew up hunting whitetails in Texas and Oklahoma. Now I hunt blacktails in western Washington. People say a blacktail doe is about as spooky as a whitetail buck, a blacktail buck is about as spooky as a trophy whitetail buck, and a trophy blacktail is off the scale. That pretty well squares up with my experience.

Access and pressure are a huge part of the equation. Blacktails on public land are extremely difficult to hunt because the logging roads go deep into the woods and there aren't enough game wardens to catch all the poachers. But that all changes if you can find a spot that's remote enough, or if you can get access to private land that poachers don't touch. In some places, pressure from native hunters is a problem, but those are easy to avoid. Deer on tree farms don't usually get very big because the forage quality is poor. That said, I've seen HUGE deer in the middle of some of the smaller towns here, where they live on apples, strawberries and lawn clippings.

I'm too impatient to sit and look out over a clearcut, so I slip through the woods and still hunt. Opinion on the best guns for the job is open to debate. I've had luck with magnum revolvers and peep-sighted lever guns, but I prefer a scoped 308. It will slip a bullet through a hole in the brush, which I've done more than once. All things considered, good binoculars are probably more important than your choice of weapon.


Okie John

Piggy-backing on your post, John,, 'cuz it's the same situation down here, in OR,,,

A .308, loaded with a small pill, at lower velocities, is quite effective.

I recently read a biologist paper that claimed evidence was that Mule Deer derived from Blacktails, I always thought id was the other way around from back in my animal science days. At anyrate, I have hunted all species in the US and find that ALL the big daddy shooters are just as tough as the next. They dont get big and mature by being dumb, no matter the species in my experience,land and area might be different and make a tougher hunt then the other is all.

Roger that. All of the most experienced deer hunters I know -- and by that I mean hunters who have hunted tonnage of mulie, whitetails and blacktail -- are virtually unanimous in their belief that a trophy blacktail is generally the toughest animal of the bunch to hunt. My own experience suppports that theory.

That may be one reason I have some very nice trophy whitetails and mulies on the wall -- but no wallhanger blacktails... to date.

Of course, if anyone in NW Calif. or SW Oregon wants to help me out with that, I'd love to discuss the options.

A Wyoming Game & Fish officer told me once that in his experience, he was generally surprised at how successful California hunters seemed to be while hunting in his state.
I have a hunch it is because we hunt blacktails in July and August in 100 degree heat in dry, brushy, vertical country.
When they get to hunt somewhere else in October, it almost feels like we are doing something wrong.

Good point Salmonella. I feel the same way when I hunt out of state.

Interesting observation. I've hunted a lot of deer in central/southern Calif., and I've found Wyoming mulies significantly easier to hunt. I'm actually still looking for a trophy "true" Calif. blacktail, which means it has to come from north of the line... so if any of you guys know guides/outfitters with access to legit trophy blacktails in NW Cal or SE Oregon, let me know, will you? Thanks.

Like this one?

KW,

Arrow Five and MUM both have good hunts, and there are smaller outfits as well. Have you talked with any yet?

jim

Rancho Loco - Yeah, that one would do in a pinch. I'd like to see him when he grows up.

HunterJim - No, I'm really just starting to ask around. I thought Arrow Five was south of the line? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else... maybe Camp Five. Do you have any experience with those outfits? All my Calif. deer hunting has been south of the official line.

I see you're retired USN. Did a tour myself a long time ago. 3.5 out of 4 years in WESTPAC. My son wrapped up a tour as a CTR last year and is now in Mesa College in San Diego. What do you do these days?

KW,

Ah WESTPAC!

I have retired now I think 3 times, so I think it will stick this time around. I live in San Diego about a mile from Mesa College, and my wife enjoys time with the grandkids (7 now). I don't do any Navy stuff, except write letters in the local fish wrap commenting on things.

I have met Jim at Arrow Five and you can hunt blacktail with him, I know the folks at Camp Five and they are in the SLO area -- definitely south.

jim

Were you black-shoe or brown-shoe Navy? Ever have any dealings with USS Mars or USS Haleakala? Several of the guys from the HockeyPuck (our nickname for Haleakala) are thinking about trying to have some sort of reunion in San Diego this year.

I think I've looked at Arrow Five's web page but wasn't all that impressed with their deer. Looks like their average buck may be a 3x3, if memory serves correctly.

Hunting Black tails in N California is not the same as hunting in the NW Oregon and I assume NW Washington. I have spent time in Southern Oregon and is different than NW Oregon. Its a lot more open down south than up this way. Maybe that is why the bucks are bigger down there???

Romey hit it on the head...

I grew up hunting Blacktails, and have done a bit of Mulie hunting but no experience with the Eastern Whitetail. A few years back a biologist here in Oregon did a large trail camera study of migratory Blacktails on public land. The things that really stood out was the number of large bucks, and that they were almost all photographed moving at night.

My girls hunt Blacktails but they think it's easy!

KW,

Submarines enlisted, and black shoe Navy after I was commissioned (cruisers and destroyers). Mars yes, Hockey Puck no. There are a lot of reunions in SD every year.

A lot of folks are looking at 3X3 blacktails as the standard, but you can find a 4X4 if you get good enough at it. Jim & Tina S. are nice folks, but I have not hunted with them (know folks who have).

Scott Haugen's book is good, as is Boyd Iverson's by the way.

good hunting...jim

Very nice deer! Are those Cascade bucks?

I've hunted Blacktails on the Olympic Penn. every year for the last 24 years. Eastern Wa White tails and muleys a few times.
Muleys in Co a couple of times, White tails in NW Idaho every year for the last 10 years. I made a couple of trips to Eastern Montana for white tails. Of all of them I've hunted the little blacktails out here are my favorite to hunt. The deer around here are about the same size as the Sitka blacktails I seen in SE AK.

Laffin! He did kill a small buck and a doe (I think) last year.

Calvin.
Been out after kings yet?

No, my boat is in the shop. I've been steelhead/trout fishing the last 3 weeks. Hoping to get the boat back this week, and then I'll be out. I'm more interested in Halibut, to be honest with you. I love those halibut enchiladas.

You have any bear plans? I'm doing a 5 day bear hunt out on the boat in a month. Hoping to find a big black bear. Also got drawn for a kodiak brown bear tag for spring 2011. That's going to be a great hunt.

I'm not going to get any hunting in until August bear season.
I just went back to work last week afer a month and a half off so my hunting fund is low this spring. Summer run stealhead starts next month, I'm going to spend more time of the rivers this summer.

http://blacktailcountry.com/forums/index.php? is full of good folks who seem to know about blacktails. Check out the trophy pics to get a feel for how the vegetation and terrain in vary around the country.


Okie John

I don't think we're lacking much in folks around here who know how to get into Blacktails.

Agreed, but there are some folks at BTC who don't post here, plus a lot of talk about good local spots.


Okie John

Just for the record, Steelhead is lying here. Surprise.

I've seen some big mule deer bucks while elk hunting in Eastern Oregon. This would be a week or so after the mule deer season. Just going from that, mule deer hunting appears to me to be a whole different ballgame, involving more longer-range glassing and just more ability to "see" in general. And that lines up with what my buddies who mule deer hunt, but don't blacktail hunt, have to say on the subject. They can't stand being in a jungle where you can't see deer. It's all I really know as far as deer hunting so it's fine with me!

On public land, in this area, deer numbers are fairly thin. You can go a LONG time between seeing deer, and I'm talking does here too. When you can only see 20-30 yards in any direction it makes it different. At least compared to the mule deer territory I've been in.

Jeff,

Try a treestand yet?

jim

I tried one once. At the end of that day I wanted to turn the guy on myself. It had to be the most boring day of hunting that I ever experienced.

I have only hunted in Oregon but have taken blacktail, mule deer and white tail.

On public land I find the blacktail hardest, the white tail second and the mule deer third in difficulty.

My sample of white tails is pretty small, I have only taken four of them. Two were does. They share the Wallowa County area with mule deer and are becoming seemingly more numerous each year especially in agricultural areas.

Really big blacktails are primarily nocturnal and live in brushpiles that are tall and dense. I have only killed one truly large one in my life that wasn't living behind locked gates.

I'll give a blacktail tip i found works. Get a good topo map of your hunt area. Every deer bed you find, mark it on the map. After hunting the area a few years you will get a good number of beds marked,with a good idea how they decide on the locations. Then you hunt every one of these beds by sneaking in and glassing them from cover. Eventually you will catch a mature buck in its bed. I spend more time looking for new beds to mark on my map than hunting deer.

Black tails are a interesting animal they live in different geographic areas in the Northwest. Northern Cal and Southern Oregon its a lot more open than here in NW Oregon and NW Washington. The biggest bucks seem to grow down south and along the Pacific Crest trail. Jeff is right though our deer numbers are way down due to HLS having taken their toll over the last 10 years. In the old days up in NW Oregon if we did not see 10-15 deer a day it was a bad day, now if you see 3 in a day its a good day. Still fun to hunt them when the October monsoons hit and they start moving and the bucks start to roam a little bit more in the day light. The biggest deer I have ever shot in NW Oregon was a big 4 point he weighed in at 140 lbs ( dressed out) the majority of the deer up here will weight between 80 and a 120 lbs.

My Dad, Son and I with dads buck.

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The son's buck
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My son and a couple cousins packing out a meat buck.
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Dad, son and I with dad's buck that year.
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This is what a nice week in camp looks like.
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A decent buck from 06. With one buck tag a year you want to pass up the dinks but don't get to greedy or you'll go hungery.
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Are all those deer in SO. Nice looking deer, the picture of the truck is a classic.

No. I think it could be real productive though. Boyd Iverson (the "Blacktail Trophy Tactics" author) is big into them.

I got my first blacktail by sitting, watching, sitting, and more sitting. Finally it was just inevitable! The buck I killed was the only deer I saw that year though.

Yep, that's it [bleep].

So from June 2008 till April 2010 you've killed 6 more blacktails? Tough keeping up with the lies ain't is asswipe


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2273717/3

I knew you wouldn't let us down Steelhead. When a guy like Jeff O has diarrhea of the keyboard, he can't help but get caught in his lies. I'd put the actual number at about 10, if I were a betting man.

Bump...

[bleep] abacus must be broken.

Damage control is a science...

After hunting whitetails in a half a dozen or so states back east, I found hunting blacktails to be more difficult when I moved to Oregon in '06. They are not as patternable as whitetails and often cannot be hunted in the peak of the rut (most general and controlled seasons in Oregon end by the first week of November). The terrain can be a little more difficult as well with large expanses of wilderness and the deer scattered. Firs being the predominent tree on the western side of the state also impacts things as the cover remains relatively thick long after the leaves would have fallen off of hardwoods and increased visibility.

It is definately a change to have a go at blacktails.

I love hunting Sitka Blacktails..

I have taken Blacktails, whitetails and mulies all in Washington. These are some of the things i have learned so far:

The only times i see big blacktail bucks, is jumping them from a bed(or catching them in one) or in a hellish wind and rain storm. If its sunny nice warm weather during hunting season, i might as well stay home or find a mulie farther east.

I have seen Mulies and Blacktails in the same basin sometimes. Now i see mixed groups, i have 2 does and a fawn that come to eat apples at my tree by the house. One doe is a mulie, one is a blacktail. Seeing less and less true blacktails every year(east of the pacific crest that is).

Big W,

How do you tell the mule deer and blacktails apart, size of glands on the legs?...thanks...jim

Usually you tell the difference by the tail, but also by the coloring of the body, especially around the face and head.

Steelhead's quote of my comment made me go count horns on my Wall of Dinks <g>. Indeed, I'd killed 16-17 in June '08 when I posted that. Killed 4 since then (2 bucks, 2 does). So I've actually killed 20-21 blacktails. Hunting, that is; killed a couple more also with a gun. I'd say that's "about... 22" of them, as I said, or close enough for me.

In the early 2000's Oregon was still issuing "additional" doe tags, so IF you had access to the mostly private land units (Central Melrose was the one I had access to), where they issued those extra tags, you could get 3 tags total for the year. Which I did several times, and only didn't fill all three one time.

But for Pete's sake... really? REALLY?! All horned up over this [bleep]? After all... it's not like Steelhead never messes up a number by a bit.

One area I hunt, north of Roseburg, gets into some hybrid blacktail/whitetail from that endangered (year, right! damn things are everywhere!) herd of WT's east of Roseburg... I've killed a couple 3x3's with horns typical of whitetail, but with a black tail and typical blacktail facial markings.

Can you post a Pic. of a good Sitka? Have looked at alot of the Pics. on here but still unsure of what is a good one.

Thanks

This is my biggest Sitka.

Yeppers, they're all Southern Oregon deer on the Western Oregon over the counter tag. Public land anyone can hunt there. None where killed within sight of a road.

We do kill our share of dinks too. Freezers do need fillin'.

Seafire Jr on right, and one of his friends from Scouts.




Looking down on top of the buck, to show girth..



what did him in...

shot at about 35 to 40 yds, 7mm Mauser in a Model 70 Featherweight, with a 115 Speer HP, behind a charge of 28 grains of SR 4759.

not noticeable in the pics, but buck had quite a bit of dried blood on his antlers, so evidently he had been fighting that morning..

estimated weight by Butcher shop, and local state biologist was about 210 lbs on the hoof..well fed suburban deer, courtesy of all of our California retirees.. taken on public land half a mile from my home..

Josephine County Oregon.

Good buck.
The photo of the rearend shows really well the difference between these Blacktails and a Muledeer.