what is it with all the guys that are fixated on bolt guns?
now please don,t think Im suggesting the bolt action is not a fine choice too hunt with, but its hardly the only choice, I had one of the guys I hunt with ask me why I hunt elk with a bolt action WBY 340, but at times hes seen me use a remington 35 whelen pump and hes seen me use a browning BLR in 450 marlin and a RUGER #1 falling block in caliber 300 wby. his close friend who,s made several trips out west with me hunting, just grinned and said, that he used to think the same way until he saw that 35 whelen pump gun used at a range in Colorado knocking beer cans and rocks off the rail road tie they were sitting on on the backstop berm, consistently from 300 yards

the simple answer is that I like them all and like golf clubs theres certain applications where a certain rifle just works better. he stared at me and said, "but only the bolt actions going to be really accurate"
he could not figure out why I was laughing so I showed him a target that had 3 shots almost touching in a group that was about 3/4" Id shot at 150 yards with my 358 win BLR off the bench, now obviously groups shot off the bench don,t reflect field accuracy but the rifles certainly able to hit an elk consistently if I do my part, and from what I see in the field, I could hand that same rifle and ammo to most guys and many would have great difficulty maintaining a 6" group at 100 yards in the field so its not the rifle that lacks accuracy potential.

What's a bolt action?



I don't own even one, much less waste a hunt using one.

Only accurate rifles are interesting.

I think someone once said that.

Indeed, but what's that got to do with bolt guns?

Bolt rifles just trip my trigger! I just got a decent deal on a real nice 1966 Marlin 336 in 30-30. I'm already kinda looking for a buyer cause I "need" to build a 280AI on another Rem 700. There is just so much you can do with them. Loony, I guess...

I have them all ,use them all,like them all

I'm partial to bolt actions but for a lot of my hunting, especially here at home......7600 in 30.06 or 35 Whelen.

Am I fixated on bolt guns? Lets see...

Single Shot Rifles:
2 bolt actions
1 rolling block
4 falling block
3 break actions
2 ML's
12 total

Level Actions
3
Semi-Autos
4
Bolt Actions
5

Nope, I'm not fixated on bolt guns?

Probably because bolt actions are more readily available than it's counter parts. Absolutely nothing wrong with levers, pumps or semi-autos for just about any hunting situation.

Bolt actions also come in more caliber choices and in most cases more accurate.

Bolt actions are the best! In the world!






IN THE WORLD!!

I think a lot of it comes from all the milsurp bolts that used to be readily available for a pittance. And it really isn't a bad choice. They can be made light if need be, the bolt is easily removed so that the barrel can be accessed from the breech end. Although they are the most difficult of the repeaters to cycle fast, cycling the action is the least likely to interfere with your rest.

Pump guns can be as accurate as bolts, but I've never been able to warm up to them. They have a loyal following, and usually aren't a bad choice either. They are easier to cycle fast than a bolt from offhand, but are awkward from prone and improvised rests, at least to me.

I like the marlin levers, but I don't see them as being as versatile as bolts. The only other one I really like is the savage 99. I don't really care for the BLR, especially in the long action version.

I wonder myself why bolts are so popular in particular on forums.

Perhaps its the accuracy reputation.

The military uses autos.

I like bolts and levers equally, mostly.

Never understood a single shot for a big game rifle, cept in a drilling of some sort.

Suddenly, I fear for ya Dave. the next thing will be you will wake up a Chevy man....

Not looking good there. Not at all

Savage & 340 - From my perspective, from the 70-90s in all the gun/shooting/hunting magazines the BOLT was lavishly praised for being the most accurate and having the least parts to give trouble,(break, malfunction, clog w/debris, etc).

I was RAISED on PUMP shotguns & my dads 760, 30-06 so I mostly ignored a lot of that when it came to pump rifles. I've never had a pump that was inaccurate, and that is a lot.

In all of my gun career I only owned 1 Rem 742, and that was for a short time. Autos make reloading MORE difficult because you have to HUNT for spent brass.

Most pumps & autos & some levers are HEAVIER to boot.

That's about as short an answer I can give based on my history w/guns since 1972.
Jerry

Awe gimme a break, I like my levers plenty good.



And I do have a couple of chevy's I'm quite attached to.

One is a 66 and one is a 54, we got em both right here at home.

I was hoping someone who KNOWS would speak up but they haven't so far.

IIRC it was Warren Page who said that.
Jerry

Me I likes a bean flip.

show me someone who makes a mag fed 300 win mag in a semi auto and I will change.

Colorado - I just left the Browning Firearm Website - Guess What?

the BAR is chambered in the 300 Win Mag & 300 WSM.

When will you place your order?
Jerry

yuck, no thanks

I was meaning in an AR type platform, or something close to it. I don't want to take a mediocre factory rifle and spend thousands to modify it to be close to what I want, and still have poor groups.


flame away!!


oh yeah, P.S. it says Browning, so no thanks on that alone

I guess you should be more specific. The BAR is a mag fed in 300 W..mags.

I'm NOT an auto fan REGARLDESS of package.
Jerry

I figured someone would mention that one, I shoulda been more specific

I've had good luck with my "non bolt action" rifles.

Sherwood

Most of the guys I know in hunting clubs only own a couple of rifles and the most commonly available big game rifle in average gunshops is the bolt action, so that is what they own. The conventional wisdom is that bolts are the most accurate. This website is a hang-out for rifle loonies; we own lots of different rifles because we like collecting, reloading, hunting with, and just piddling with different guns - we here would have a different take on it than the average hunter.

I own several bolt guns, but spent this past deer season hunting with only two rifles, both leverguns - a M94/.32 WS and a M88/.308 WIN. Next year I might hunt the entire season with a couple of bolt action M70's in .30-06 SPRG or .270 WIN, or with a Marlin 45/70 or .35 REM - you all do something similar I imagine. I have my eye on an old REM M760 in .270 WIN that I might own soon, could end up using that one next year if I buy it.

That 54 Chev is kinda like the lever action of cars.

Browning.

Cuz I asked my dad what kind of deer rifle my to get and he said "get a bolt because they don't jam". His deer rifle was a 742 rem and he grew up with levers so I bought a bolt. I've watched levers with weak extraction issues and autos jam so my main goto rifle is a bolt action per my dads advice.

I will say its easier to tweak triggers on bolts where you typically live with what you get on other actions.

Now I own & hunt with levers 50% of the time and owned a great shooting 760 once that I sold to a good friend, but if I would still grab a bolt action for high dollar out of state hunt because of reliability.

I inherited dad's 742, but I struggle with taking it out deer hunting because of all the times I saw those rifles jam because everyone in the crew used one when I started hunting. The trigger is terrible too.

Dang Cole, hook me up on one of those level actions. Think it might go good with my other stuff..

Not fixated on bolt guns but that's where I tend to go for big game hunting. Familiarity, elegance in simplicity, and I like the way they look when done properly. Can be made into a work of art that fits the owner perfectly, kinda hard to do with, say, an AR.

I've used every action type over the years. Single shot, not crazy about, the semi auto was a Rem 7400 in 30-06, too heavy. The pump was a Rem 7600, just don't like how far out my forward hand end up. The levers, give me a good Marlin any day. But the bolt action is just right The right weight, right length, right calibers and with practice, quick follow up shots. Now this is not every bolt action but bolt action come in many more configuration then other action types.

IMHO because they do everything a hunter requires and they are available in most high intensity calibers. I know about the BAR and #1but they are premium priced rifles while bolts are a all levels. Also bolts are easier to reload for as the cam action of the bolt is very strong for both chambering and extraction. I use to have a buddy that would save me his brass from a Remington auto. It was so oversized from the chamber it wouldn't enter the die. I would simply toss them. Not all auto s and pumps are like that but it is common. There is also a stigma IMHO when I see a guy with an AR platform and his black tac outfit out deer hunting It sort of leaves me shaking my head. Of course ymmv which is fine but I think with older hunters that may be common.

A bolt action is almost perfect.

A bolt action .270 is perfect.

Add a peep sight, and a Latigo sling, and it's heaven on earth.

Am I biased? Sure.........why not?

Yes Bangeye - deer hunting is not 'black ops'.....

...It is CAMO OP.

Jerry

I have pretty eclectic tastes. I like the #1 Ruger and have a few. I also have 4 bolts, and a couple AR's.

One interesting point, for those who like to hunt with a cold chamber, I found it hard to quietly (but positively) chamber a round on an AR, while sitting in a blind. The first time I tried it, I got a "klink" when I pulled the trigger A lot easier to do it quietly with a bolt action.

Now that I hunt wetter climates than in the past, I am thinking about a stainless M70.

Single shot:



Bolt:



Lever:



P

I am a little bipolar perfering simi autos or single shots. Not that I don't have bolt guns thre in 9.3x62, 06 and 22. Of course there's a 7600 in 35 Whelen. Haven't owned a lever action.

Like I said, eclectic tastes:



More than needed for Texas deer, but effective, a #1 .30-06:

I've owned 3 7600's. They would all shoot MOA out to 300 yards with handloads.

No Sir, it was Townsend Whelen...

Advertising, gun writers, TV shows-------thats the real reason people want them. And, for the same reasons, the uniformed want
the 300 ultra super magnums. Bigger is better is the mentality of most.

I have a lot of guns...hence my ID, yet I gravitate to those that only kill at one end...(dont kill my shoulder at the other). Yesterday, I hunted with a 300 Savage in a Reminton 722, Friday afternoon I used a Savage 99 chambered in 250 Savage. Hmmm today I think I will use my ole Rem 742 ...hope the 30-06 is powerful enough.

You mean Swampass is actually Townsend Whelen?!

Heaven Forbid...

A common argument for a lever or pump is that you can get a 2d shot off faster. My comment to that is hit it right the 1st time and forget the 2d shot.

A lot of hunters can't make the first shot count........so much for the second shot.

You've never made a perfect shot in both lungs on and elk, and have it stand there looking at you? Sometimes a second shot is handy.

And I've often wondered why those that hunt with a single shot carry more than one cartridge with them.

Lots of [bleep] can and will happen.

I can understand the attraction to other types of actions other than bolts. Some people can't really work a bolt very well.

They usually trip a lot, and drop things too.

Hmmm, I guess that's your experience.

For me it's about making the 2nd shot count when it's available.



David

Canazes - You might be 'surprised' or ' shocked' how fast a second shot
can be fired with a BOLT action. It only takes familiarity (practice).

I don't believe in carrying any more weight than necessary in my rifles.
Jerry

Now that I've put 30 years of deer hunting under my belt (Wasn't there supposed to be a party or something?) I feel like I can weigh in on this, at least as far as whitetail deer.

1) Second shots are nice. Not fumbling around to make a second shot is even better. I shoot, and if I can, I shoot again. The
most fire I had to lay into a buck was 3. I was in the process of chambering the 4th when he finally fell over. They all went into the heart lung area.

2) For normal deer hunting at normal deer distances, action is the least of the rifle hunter's worries. The rifle's accuracy is normally not going to be a problem for me either. I can live with a 4MOA rifle. Beginners need as accurate a rifle as possible to build confidence.

3) Of all the deer rifles I use, I think I like my Savage 99 (a lever) the best. I loved my Remington 742, but it broke my heart. If I really had to pick a favorite deer rifle action, it would be an exposed hammer lever like the Marlin 336. My dream gun would be a pump-action with an exposed hammer like a WIN 1897 shotgun. For treestand hunting, I like an exposed hammer that gives you that extra half-cock safety.

4) Bolt actions are fine for deer hunting. I usually take one when I'm going to hunt pastures. I don't buy the inherent accuracy chestnut, but mine has the better optics on it and it also has a stock length and barrel length better suited to my afternoon sits in the blind.

Canazes - There is a 'technique' to operating a bolt action rifle that is secure and 'faster' than the way some do it.

I've seen even this year a 'pro' hunter on a name brand deer hunting show doing what a lot of hunters do. When/after a shot he grabs the bolt handle/knob with his FINGERS and then raises the bolt. He has SLIPPED more than once and lost control of the bolt.

The more secure and FASTER way to operate the bolt is 'after' the shot, rotate your hand so that the PALM is UP and fingers are up. Raise the bolt with the hand (palm) up and drag back, rotate wrist and PUSH bolt with WHOLE hand.

With JUST A LITTLE practice is becomes NATURAL and faster than you'd expect. I've used this technique longer than I can REMEMBER, and it is a natural reaction. I don't ever think about it whether I need a second shot or not.

Now don't get me wrong, I HAVE pumps and levers and 1 semi auto Ruger 10-22. However I never feel disadvantaged or handicapped hunting a bolt action.

If you have a bolt action rifle of any caliber give it a try a few times. You can see and feel the security of bolt operation and with practice it is fast.

edited to add: I errr, my wife has a Nylon 66 & I inherited my Dad's Rem 552.

My Dad always used a .35 Rem Marlin. He was amazed when he shot with me one day and saw me work the my bolt action like jwall mentioned. He laughed after seeing it then trying it and said "it should have been common sense to do it that way"....but sometimes we miss the obvious.

Edited to add......it was reading a post by Mule Deer that I learned the "obvious" way to work a bolt....

JCM - Yeah, while I was writing that, I remembered 'someone' posting it a while back. Honestly didn't remember who, but I 'shoulda known'. Mule Deer SEEMS to know his stuff.
Jerry

I have numerous bolt rifles. I hunt with numerous bolt rifles. I most assuredly know how to operate them quickly and how to get off a quick second shot.

Anybody that thinks they can duplicate the speed of a good gas action autoloader w/ a bolt is badly delusional and apparently enjoys the sensation of self administered smoke in their nether regions.

I never said that an autoloader is always the best rifle for the job or that it's the only decent choice to hunt with. My post was in reply to the sentiment offered by a few that the only people that hunt w/ auto's are slinging lead around the woods because they don't know how to shoot. It's arrogant BS, "mine is better than yours - must be, I picked it!"

By the way, that Benelli weighs 7 pounds without the scope, it's not heavy, it carrys great! I put that scope on there because I've been using that rifle for night hunting, but it's very easy to set it up so that it weighs less than 8 pounds all up. I think some of the "auto's are $hit" crowd might be surprised at how it shoots:



Carry on with your "auto's are $hit and anyone who shoots them is a toothless hillbilly" discussion....



David

Why do most hunters have some type of 4wd or truck with same instead of a Buick Regal, Ford Taurus or Chevy Malibu as a hunting vehicle?

Day in day out the bolt wins for durability, cartridge choices, scope mounting choices, accuracy over the long haul, simplicity of design, etc.

It has evolved into the position of the best hammer for the job.

Well good morning to you too. Who put poison ivy in your jock strap?

If you will read my posts wilth a little less attitude, you'll find that I never insulted you or your rifle. My only point is that you don't have to have an auto loading rifle for a quick second shot.

"beauty is in the eye....". "one man's junk is .....". I could have been but WAS NOT critical or insulting of your R1. They are not my cup of tea, but neither is Starbucks coffee my choice. However it seems a lot of people like Starbucks, they stay in business.

Have a good day.
Jerry

Truth is most of us are casual hunters. We don't make a living with a rifle. We don't have it bouncing around in a scabbard 3months out of the year or home base it out of a tent or bounce it around in a boat for the better part of a season. We take care of them at the end of the day and not leave them sitting exposed to the whims of the elements for extended periods of time. We are not for the most part outfitters or guides who have other duties other than than worriying about will our rifle do its job when called on.

We don't have to count on them working going into the alders after a Bear that may or may not decide too play with us.

Those people for the most part relay on the proven dependability of bolts. I've seen pictures of the exception-not yet in real life-but they are just that.

Will levers, pumps and semis work for the majority of us? Definitely. However don't let that delude you into thinking they are the best.

Battue - Agree to both of your posts and thanks.

IF I hunted as you describe, & as JOC et.al. on long safari, whether in Africa, Alaska, or the lower 48, I would not choose a Rem M 6. I really really like the
pump action but for arduous conditions, I'd pick a bolt because of fewer parts
LESS likely to malfunction. Yes bolts can/do have problems but there is likelihood, aka they are more dependable.

However I'm very glad we have choices.
Jerry

ive used the m16 type rifle for 30 years at work.i just dont care for it or any othe semi auto.a bolt rifle just feels good and i can load hotter rounds if i want to.i guess an ar type wood werk for coyotes and such but they just dont got any soul.

It is interesting that, in comparison, the guys who go room to room clearing buildings of terrorists/snipers/whatever tend to take anything but bolts.

Aww, bolt actions are boring.....all I got are levers and singleshots. Haven't owned a bolt of any sort for over 20 yrs.


maddog

Apples to oranges and it is usually guys plural. I would be guessing here, but thinking overwhelming fire power rules in that situation and at the end of the day those firearms are maintained meticulously.

Only one person gets through a doorway at time for the most part. And guns are dragged through enough dust and sand and grit to make a hunting rifle's like look like Easy Street.

Bolt guns are the best looking to look at, I have to peek can't help it.

jwall

There's no poison ivy in my jock strap, thanks. I realize that you weren't criticizing me or my rifle - you were just pointing out that one day when I grow up to be a big boy and learn how to operate a bolt action rifle properly I'll realize they can be cycled quickly.

Certainly no reason to take offense to that, and I wasn't - just pointing out that no matter how fast you or anyone else is able to cycle a bolt they will NEVER be able to fire an effective 2nd shot as quickly as a well made gas action autoloader and discussions along those lines are laughable (hope you noted my smiley)!

Regards,

David

How can a gun be boring? They all go bang, and kill stuff when you pull the trigger.

Do you mean that a gun that's dead bang reliable is boring?

Thats fine and dandy if your just trying to plant one deer. throw four or five into the mix and I'll take a pump gun anytime.

1. I did notice the but it seemed odd after the comments.

2. The thot NEVER crossed my mind about you 'growing up........"

I felt that you took offense to my suggestions of operating a bolt. If you didn't that's great.

IMO - In 'controlled aim fire' there is little difference between an auto loader and a competent bolt action shooter. An auto loader certainly can be fired faster than a bolt action, but when you recover from recoil and aim it slows the repeated shots noticeably. Again IMO.

Regardless of opinions, I intended no offense and take none.
Jerry

Bolt actions are slow? Not with practice.

Watch and become a believer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ERkGd-Crg

Jerry,

Odd the various US military and it's numerous snipers - some would argue the finest, most capable bolt action users in the world - do not seem to agree.

David

I see several reasons for the apparent preference for bolt action rifles by today's shooters.

The main reason is the changes that have taken place over the years in hunting style. When I was a young hunter in East Texas "deer" hunting was almost exclusively done by running the deer with dogs. The shots tended to be close and quick. In many cases the only "opening" was as a deer crossed a logging road and it was felt that a good deer rifle should be able to place at least two shots in the time it took a deer to cross that 15-20 foot opening. These were NOt shots at deer running full out, but also not at standing or slow moving targets.

The only "other" hunting method that was commonly used was what we called "slip" hunting....known to most here as still hunting. Once again the shots tended to be quick and close....often at moving deer. Our thickets were so tight that very seldom could a deer be seen more than a few yards. The same requirements needed for hunting the dogs was needed when slipping.

In those situations it was (and still is) the rare "average" hunter who can do this consistantly with a bolt action rifle. There were (and are) exceptions. One of our hunters could place 3 aimed shots into a deer in a 15 foot space so fast that those listening used to think he was using a semi-auto rifle, but he was actually one of the very few people I knew in those days who used a bolt action. He was FAST, but was also maybe 1 of 1000 who could pull that trick with a bolt gun. That is still true. When most say the bolt guns can be worked fast....I say there is fast....and there is FAST. For shooting in more open areas, the bolt guns are indeed as fast as anyone needs, but in extreme conditions, they just can't keep up (except for very rare shooters).

The lever guns are a bit faster than bolt guns for the average shooter, but not as much faster as most think. It actually takes a LOT of practice to be able to keep the lever gun on one's shoulder and get off quick "aimed" fire. However the lever guns were generally cheap and most hunters could get off aimed shots much faster than with a bolt gun.

Semi auto rifles wre certainly quick enough.....when they worked. That was the problem.....reliability. Semi auto in those days mostly meant Remington 740/742. There is a very good reason that the Remington semi autos (particularly in the most common chambering of .30-06) are known as "Jam-O-Matics" They just couldn't be depended on to work when you needed them. However the "need for speed" meant you saw them in the woods a lot, even with the jamming problems.

The Winchester 100 was quite popular as it was very dependable and one or two carried the ultra reliable Browning BAR. However both of these guns (particularly the Browning) were priced just a bit too much for most hunters of that day. Probably the "best" rifle for our style of hunting was the Ruger 44 carbine, but these were rare as hen teeth in those early years.

The pump rifles were VERY popular and were probably the best of the lot because of their speed of use and reliability. Those who didn't carry the most common .30-30 lever guns were most likely armed with the Remington 14 or 760.

As the years went by, things changed. In the early days almost no one hunted deer from a stand. As the timber cutting practices opened the woods and dogs were outlawed.....many hunters began to build stands for their hunting. Today that is almost the "only" way anyone hunts. Still hunting has even become a lost art as the woods became more open and crowded.

When shooting from a fixed position (ground blind or elevated stand), true "speed" is seldom called for. The deer are normally undesturbed and either standing or moving slowly. Follow-up shots in the more open areas are not nearly as fast as was previously common and well within the ability of most hunters using bolt guns. In the more open west, the typical hunting style has long been a fixed position type that favors the bolt action. No action type actually has an advantage in this situation....they are all equal.....almost.

Today almost all hunters you see are armed with some type of bolt action rifle. Partly this is because of the change in hunting style, but a lot has to do with cost.

The "traditional" lever guns are cheap enough, but most hunters feel the need for a bit more range than the .30-30 class cartridges. The Browning (basically the only full power lever left, with the death of the Savage 99) is NOT cheap at all. The Semi-auto and pump guns are just as good as ever, but cost as much as a typical bolt gun.

Beginning with the Savage bolt actions and Remington 788, most manufactures introduced bolt action rifles designed to compete directly with the cheaper lever rifles.....and did so quite well. This has continued with new rifles introduced to appeal more on price than looks, but still shoot well.

This has resulted in at least two generations that grew up shooting nothing but bolt action rifles. They don't have any experience with other action types. Even as these shooters get more experience and are able to purchase more and better rifles, they still prefer the bolt guns they grew up on. They will try othet types, but keep coming back to what they were trained on.

To me, that is the reason that most "modern" shooters seem to overwhelmingly favor bolt actions.

Times have changed, but years back the average working guy could not afford a bolt action until the surplus came rolling in. What you can't have you want.

I've hunted with Browning BARs for years and love them. They're great for hunting in swamps and pine thickets here in Alabama. I use bolt actions most of the time though.

They didn't show his target.

My cousin Joe can fire a bolt rifle so fast it sounds like an autoloader, and he can do it accurately.
Around here the rule is, shoot 'til he's dead.

P

In PA the preference is engrained. Mainly becuase you can't hunt with a semi.

I have been going to the same hunting camp in WV every year since 1972. Many of the guys over the years have brought 742/760, BAR, BLR, Win 88/100, 336/94, 44 carbine, single shots, and lots of bolts. Each of these hardly raised an eyebrow. They all felt and looked pretty much like what a hunting rifle was supposed to be in that setting. Now we have military influenced (AR) rifles with clunky looking receivers, pistol grips sticking out, sharp angular edges sticking everywhere (rails) sitting alongside the rifles that appeaer to belong. I suspect a lot of this interest was created over the last 10 years with the proliferance of video games where the players are "playing" soldier and their rifle of choice was this type of rifle. Especially with the younger hunters coming in. Except they usually don't have the $$ to start with an AR. For most of us I don't think it is a first and second shot thing. It is our not wanting "Our" hunting world to change. I remember some flack as plastic stocks started to show up on rifles. I am sure many of the "Autos" showing up in the woods are very capable. It will take time before they are not noticed on the hunt camp gun rack next to the 336/77/BAR/700/1/70/BLR.

Probably about as accurate as someone shooting a lever, or pump gun. Which others are claiming are faster.

I understand how fast a lever gun can be. I shot in CAS for quite a few years, but the loads used are very light. It's pretty hard to shoot that fast with hunting loads.