Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting what is it with all the guys that are fixated on bolt guns?

Battue - Agree to both of your posts and thanks.

IF I hunted as you describe, & as JOC et.al. on long safari, whether in Africa, Alaska, or the lower 48, I would not choose a Rem M 6. I really really like the
pump action but for arduous conditions, I'd pick a bolt because of fewer parts
LESS likely to malfunction. Yes bolts can/do have problems but there is likelihood, aka they are more dependable.

However I'm very glad we have choices.
Jerry

ive used the m16 type rifle for 30 years at work.i just dont care for it or any othe semi auto.a bolt rifle just feels good and i can load hotter rounds if i want to.i guess an ar type wood werk for coyotes and such but they just dont got any soul.

It is interesting that, in comparison, the guys who go room to room clearing buildings of terrorists/snipers/whatever tend to take anything but bolts.

Aww, bolt actions are boring.....all I got are levers and singleshots. Haven't owned a bolt of any sort for over 20 yrs.


maddog

Apples to oranges and it is usually guys plural. I would be guessing here, but thinking overwhelming fire power rules in that situation and at the end of the day those firearms are maintained meticulously.

Only one person gets through a doorway at time for the most part. And guns are dragged through enough dust and sand and grit to make a hunting rifle's like look like Easy Street.

Bolt guns are the best looking to look at, I have to peek can't help it.

jwall

There's no poison ivy in my jock strap, thanks. I realize that you weren't criticizing me or my rifle - you were just pointing out that one day when I grow up to be a big boy and learn how to operate a bolt action rifle properly I'll realize they can be cycled quickly.

Certainly no reason to take offense to that, and I wasn't - just pointing out that no matter how fast you or anyone else is able to cycle a bolt they will NEVER be able to fire an effective 2nd shot as quickly as a well made gas action autoloader and discussions along those lines are laughable (hope you noted my smiley)!

Regards,

David

How can a gun be boring? They all go bang, and kill stuff when you pull the trigger.

Do you mean that a gun that's dead bang reliable is boring?

Thats fine and dandy if your just trying to plant one deer. throw four or five into the mix and I'll take a pump gun anytime.

1. I did notice the but it seemed odd after the comments.

2. The thot NEVER crossed my mind about you 'growing up........"

I felt that you took offense to my suggestions of operating a bolt. If you didn't that's great.

IMO - In 'controlled aim fire' there is little difference between an auto loader and a competent bolt action shooter. An auto loader certainly can be fired faster than a bolt action, but when you recover from recoil and aim it slows the repeated shots noticeably. Again IMO.

Regardless of opinions, I intended no offense and take none.
Jerry

Bolt actions are slow? Not with practice.

Watch and become a believer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ERkGd-Crg

Jerry,

Odd the various US military and it's numerous snipers - some would argue the finest, most capable bolt action users in the world - do not seem to agree.

David

I see several reasons for the apparent preference for bolt action rifles by today's shooters.

The main reason is the changes that have taken place over the years in hunting style. When I was a young hunter in East Texas "deer" hunting was almost exclusively done by running the deer with dogs. The shots tended to be close and quick. In many cases the only "opening" was as a deer crossed a logging road and it was felt that a good deer rifle should be able to place at least two shots in the time it took a deer to cross that 15-20 foot opening. These were NOt shots at deer running full out, but also not at standing or slow moving targets.

The only "other" hunting method that was commonly used was what we called "slip" hunting....known to most here as still hunting. Once again the shots tended to be quick and close....often at moving deer. Our thickets were so tight that very seldom could a deer be seen more than a few yards. The same requirements needed for hunting the dogs was needed when slipping.

In those situations it was (and still is) the rare "average" hunter who can do this consistantly with a bolt action rifle. There were (and are) exceptions. One of our hunters could place 3 aimed shots into a deer in a 15 foot space so fast that those listening used to think he was using a semi-auto rifle, but he was actually one of the very few people I knew in those days who used a bolt action. He was FAST, but was also maybe 1 of 1000 who could pull that trick with a bolt gun. That is still true. When most say the bolt guns can be worked fast....I say there is fast....and there is FAST. For shooting in more open areas, the bolt guns are indeed as fast as anyone needs, but in extreme conditions, they just can't keep up (except for very rare shooters).

The lever guns are a bit faster than bolt guns for the average shooter, but not as much faster as most think. It actually takes a LOT of practice to be able to keep the lever gun on one's shoulder and get off quick "aimed" fire. However the lever guns were generally cheap and most hunters could get off aimed shots much faster than with a bolt gun.

Semi auto rifles wre certainly quick enough.....when they worked. That was the problem.....reliability. Semi auto in those days mostly meant Remington 740/742. There is a very good reason that the Remington semi autos (particularly in the most common chambering of .30-06) are known as "Jam-O-Matics" They just couldn't be depended on to work when you needed them. However the "need for speed" meant you saw them in the woods a lot, even with the jamming problems.

The Winchester 100 was quite popular as it was very dependable and one or two carried the ultra reliable Browning BAR. However both of these guns (particularly the Browning) were priced just a bit too much for most hunters of that day. Probably the "best" rifle for our style of hunting was the Ruger 44 carbine, but these were rare as hen teeth in those early years.

The pump rifles were VERY popular and were probably the best of the lot because of their speed of use and reliability. Those who didn't carry the most common .30-30 lever guns were most likely armed with the Remington 14 or 760.

As the years went by, things changed. In the early days almost no one hunted deer from a stand. As the timber cutting practices opened the woods and dogs were outlawed.....many hunters began to build stands for their hunting. Today that is almost the "only" way anyone hunts. Still hunting has even become a lost art as the woods became more open and crowded.

When shooting from a fixed position (ground blind or elevated stand), true "speed" is seldom called for. The deer are normally undesturbed and either standing or moving slowly. Follow-up shots in the more open areas are not nearly as fast as was previously common and well within the ability of most hunters using bolt guns. In the more open west, the typical hunting style has long been a fixed position type that favors the bolt action. No action type actually has an advantage in this situation....they are all equal.....almost.

Today almost all hunters you see are armed with some type of bolt action rifle. Partly this is because of the change in hunting style, but a lot has to do with cost.

The "traditional" lever guns are cheap enough, but most hunters feel the need for a bit more range than the .30-30 class cartridges. The Browning (basically the only full power lever left, with the death of the Savage 99) is NOT cheap at all. The Semi-auto and pump guns are just as good as ever, but cost as much as a typical bolt gun.

Beginning with the Savage bolt actions and Remington 788, most manufactures introduced bolt action rifles designed to compete directly with the cheaper lever rifles.....and did so quite well. This has continued with new rifles introduced to appeal more on price than looks, but still shoot well.

This has resulted in at least two generations that grew up shooting nothing but bolt action rifles. They don't have any experience with other action types. Even as these shooters get more experience and are able to purchase more and better rifles, they still prefer the bolt guns they grew up on. They will try othet types, but keep coming back to what they were trained on.

To me, that is the reason that most "modern" shooters seem to overwhelmingly favor bolt actions.

Times have changed, but years back the average working guy could not afford a bolt action until the surplus came rolling in. What you can't have you want.

I've hunted with Browning BARs for years and love them. They're great for hunting in swamps and pine thickets here in Alabama. I use bolt actions most of the time though.

They didn't show his target.

My cousin Joe can fire a bolt rifle so fast it sounds like an autoloader, and he can do it accurately.
Around here the rule is, shoot 'til he's dead.

P

In PA the preference is engrained. Mainly becuase you can't hunt with a semi.

I have been going to the same hunting camp in WV every year since 1972. Many of the guys over the years have brought 742/760, BAR, BLR, Win 88/100, 336/94, 44 carbine, single shots, and lots of bolts. Each of these hardly raised an eyebrow. They all felt and looked pretty much like what a hunting rifle was supposed to be in that setting. Now we have military influenced (AR) rifles with clunky looking receivers, pistol grips sticking out, sharp angular edges sticking everywhere (rails) sitting alongside the rifles that appeaer to belong. I suspect a lot of this interest was created over the last 10 years with the proliferance of video games where the players are "playing" soldier and their rifle of choice was this type of rifle. Especially with the younger hunters coming in. Except they usually don't have the $$ to start with an AR. For most of us I don't think it is a first and second shot thing. It is our not wanting "Our" hunting world to change. I remember some flack as plastic stocks started to show up on rifles. I am sure many of the "Autos" showing up in the woods are very capable. It will take time before they are not noticed on the hunt camp gun rack next to the 336/77/BAR/700/1/70/BLR.

Probably about as accurate as someone shooting a lever, or pump gun. Which others are claiming are faster.

I understand how fast a lever gun can be. I shot in CAS for quite a few years, but the loads used are very light. It's pretty hard to shoot that fast with hunting loads.