The mindless brain trust has extended the archery season 2 weeks early Oct 1 and then had the "great" idea of having a firearms youth season right during the begining of the archery season Oct 6th -Oct 8.
Dumb [bleep] only care about lining their coffers!

The youth hunt was gonna happen regardless.
Extra days for the Southern Tier bowhunter are the bonus. It was either share Columbus Day weekend with the youth, or let them at the deer in September before bowhunters hit the field.
No early muzzleloader season in Southern Zone as was initially presented.

It is NYS attempting to keep up with other states offering youth hunts, and they hope it will increase the number of future hunters. The documented current decrease in the number of hunters NYS is seeing annually impacts ALL NY hunters through a need for license fee increases.

I have concerns over hunter safety. I hope things go smoothly this season.

I've been looking at the dec website and can't find anything on a youth season. Someone send me a link if you have one.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/81317.html

I think of it this way, better to sacrafice a few days in the EXTENDED bowseason then not have the new hunters brought into the hunting family.

I fail to see what the big deal is. I would be more worried abouot slob hunters taking their kids hunting and then THEY shoot the deer on the kid's tag.

Exactly

of course I'm not crazy about being in camo and kids running around the woods with rifles or shot guns....season was long enough with out slapping 2 weeks on the front end

thanks

Yes it was, and now us fall turkey/grouse hunters won't have any time to ourselves. I see more conflicts between overzealous bowhunters and turkey/upland hunters on the horizon.

We have youth in archery here too. Never affected a single thing, even when hunting public land. YMMV but I hope it does ok.

I'm all for youth hunts, I only hope it don't get the deer all spooked for us bow hunters.

If a 140 class buck gets "spooked" and trots past an archery stand, guessing all will have been forgiven? ;O)

We went through this angst several years ago here, when an early youth firearms doe season and some other special seasons were introduced during what had been archery season. Then it was a few other special seasons that my fellow string-stretchers yowled about, over having to share the woods.

Of course, all that stuff came well after we tusseled for years to get longer archery seasons. Then it was crossbow inclusion in archery season.

At some point, most of us have to "share the woods" with someone else that isn't on the same page we are. It ain't "our woods".

Mentored Youth Hunting is working fairly well in PA after several years, despite lots of sour grapes about "dad shooting the buck, instead of junior". Last year it was approved to transfer a doe tag to a MYH and more grumbles.

Duh! Daddy already had to have gotten the doe tag in order to let junior use it, instead of daddy just using it himself. MYH permits do not include a doe tag application.

Swear to God, we are often our own worst enemies? Us old bastards ain't gonna last forever. The WWII generation that taught us boomers to hunt 50 years ago, are already 'bout gone. No kids coming in, no more hunting someday.

Recruitment of young hunters is falling behind in almost every state. Retention of adult hunters is even worse, in many states. Time to wake up, look around and quit whining.

Are you guys hunting public land or people stumbling all over eachothers private land?

I won't mind as long as the Youth's are responsible. We need more kids out of the house & malls and all that goes along with that nonsense. Bowhunters are more tuned to farmland / bottomlands. Many of these areas need culling. Too many younger hunters looking for the Rack instead of filling the freezer.JMO.

Kind of surprised that they will allow bucks and antlerless deer to be killed during the youth hunt and not limit it to antlerless deer.

Like I said before "I'm all for youth hunts" But I really think the reason N.Y.S. is doing it is because N.Y.S. is broke! they have been doing a lot more around here in resent years (not that I'm complaining) They allow Bow fishing For carp(need a permit & stamp),crossbow hunting(need another stamp), opened up a lot of city land for hunting (need a permit), opened up the Pepacton reservoir for canoe/sailboat(Need a permit plus steam cleaning & Reg.) , extended Bear season by two weeks last year,now extending archery season and adding a youth hunt(more license sales & stamps) I'm sure I didn't add something. I hope they use some of the money they get to fix up or replace the public lentos that have been around since my grand parents were kids that now are rotted, crushed by trees falling on em or washed away by spring flooding.

Can you archery Hun the first week of Nov when the rut starts?

Bow season runs from the first of Oct. till gun season opens the third sat. in Nov.. Then there's a late archery season for a week in the middle of Dec. You can still hunt with a bow during rifle season if you really want to. Damned NY bowhunters are greedy SOB'S and won't be completely happy till they have a year 'round season.

"Greed is Good"

Gordon Gecko Wallstreet


I am a greedy bow hunter too.

Hardly, most bow hunters were against lengthening the season 2 weeks ...

I'm talkingg the NY bowhunters association. They've been fighting for a longer bow season and against an early muzzleloader season in the Southern zone for the past several years. They are the most selfish, loud mouthed, whiney bunch of cry baby asswholes I've ever seen.

NYB is less than 4000. NY archers number over 250,000.
They are NOT the voice of bowhunters in NYS.

The real issues are in the fine print of the DEC proposals.

Maybe not but they're the ones with the lobbying clout and they do it very loudly and effectively. They usually get what they want and are the ONLY REASON there isn't already an early southern zone muzzleloader season and crossbows remain illegal during archery season. They do claim to be "the voice" of the NY bowhunter and effectively they are because the mass of NY bowhunters keep their mouths shut and have no effective voice or participation with DEC and the conservation council.

Actually, the NYB is not that powerful an organization. They have claimed to be the reason and the driving force for some things, but by far they are not the biggest nor the loudest voice at the table.

One has to know the true underlying nefarious plans presented by NYS by investigating the nearly 60+ page DEC proposal and to know all the moves being made behind the scenes. The segregarion of opinion between hunters regarding season dates, youth hunts and "who gets what days" is just a smokescreen for their bigger plan. The state wants to control deer population by giving non-hunting (recreational - think photographers, walkers, tourism) groups a bigger voice in the process, moving conservation funds to support programs that are not directly beneficial to deer management (see what Cornell does with state/Fed money) and to increase their regulation over the recreational hunter (AR and DMP) as the primary tool for management. It can become quite easy for hunters to be pushed to the back seat, as in DDP and DMAP becoming the primary tools.

There are some quite knowledgeable folks doing mighty fine work to protect the NY hunting lifestyle. Some concessions have to be made between hunters in order for ALL hunters to pull together with a united front against some of what is being proposed.

All of the proposed season date changes, youth hunts, muzzleloader days and the like were simply the results of the earlier opinion surveys the DEC obtained from hunters across the state. All the ideas presented were melded into one proposal, a proposal that has quite a few questions being raised by those who see it as the "Trojan Horse" it really is.

You put forth any conspiracy theory you want. DEC wants to do all it can to maximize revenue/license sales. Consequently, they've been in favor of an early southern zone muzzleloader season for years because they believe it would increase sales of mz stamps. The only reason it hasn't happened is because of strong opposition from the selfish NYS bowhunters {whether members of the organization or not} who don't want THEIR season interrupted by muzzleloaders. It's the same story with the crossbow issue. DEC is not opposed and would require a separate crossbow stamp but NYS bowhunters get their panties all in a wad at the mere mention of crossbows in THEIR SEASON. A close friend of mine has been chairman of the NYS conservation council for years and I get this straight from the horses mouth.

I question your info source, as there is no "Chairman" as Howard Cushing Jr. is current President of the NYSCC.

DEC is only looking at early MZ as a tool to assist in management with unused DMP tags in certain WMU's. They already have what they expect as their target MZ license sales for late season in relation to the numbers of big game firearms licenses sold. Archery is not considered to be as effective a management tool for antlerless as much as MZ and firearms are.
Crossbow (as an authorized weapon) approval is a move that had to be done through legislation NOT by DEC approval.

Youth hunts are the future of the sport, the DEC knows it and is willing to have them in order to stem the tide of decreasing license sales. They supported dropping the age to 12 for junior archers, and realize a growing need for more archery opportunity in many of the most developed areas of the state.

Of course increasing the numbers of licenses sold increases revenue, and can offest the need to raise the cost of licenses annually. The real kicker is in the behind the scenes stuff, as I mentioned earlier. Where the money is spent.
Heck, the wording of the budget allowed for the CF to be raided for general use. I'm not even sure that was corrected in time to prevent the state from receiving the Federal dollars ($20 million) which will not come in unless they are only for CF use.
Look closely at who is being invited to the table, and who will be the most influential voices at that table. Hint... it ain't hunters.

We could spin all we want about "who gets more days," "who gets more tags," and "why kids with firearms during bowhunting" but the real issues are much larger than that.

I don't much care what you question. Obviously, approval for crossbows as legal hunting implements was granted by the state. Why do you suppose they were limited to use during gun and mz seasons if it wasn't because of strong opposition from bowhunters ? I did go to the conservation council website and see my buddy is no longer listed as a regional chairman but as a director.

The crossbow legislation (ECL) defined the weapon and exactly when it can be used. That was the bill which set the current regulations, NOT THE DEC, and it has been extended until 2014. There is an active bill stuck in committee which was seeking to change that for 2012, but the current law was extended. Politics at play, not so much a fault of the majority of bowhunters who do not have an issue with crossbows. That was not part of this proposal.

The youth hunts made it through. The archery season extension for the Southern Zone made it through. Archers hung on to their either sex tag. Archers and MZ held on to the shared antlerless tag. Northern Zone got early MZ for unused DMP's. The state did (and most likely still does) want control of ALL ANTLERLESS TAKE through the DMP program. Could have been a loss of opportunity for hunters across the board regardless of chosen implement or season if a "one buck" rule was implemented, as was being tossed around.

Concerns over expansion of AR, and a complete control of antlerless take statewide by the DMP program could lead to a LARGE loss of opportunity for hunters if they become "choked out." If recreational hunters are not viewed by everyone at the table who has a voice (tourism, industry, insurance, photography, birdwatchers, ad nauseum) as the PRIMARY tool for management, then DDP and DMAP could become the primary means of controlling the resource. Don't think there are lots of voices wishing to do that very thing, killing hunting by over regulation. And there are a lot of dollar starving departments just drooling over the chance to get some funding from the CF!

My kids have participated in the early doe seaons in PA the last few years and it is a great opportunity to take a kid hunting with decent weather. Hasn't affected the bowhunting one bit from what I see. I prefer to bowhunt.
I don't know about shooting antlered deer during an early youth hunt. I guess if it gets kids interested it will be worth it. Easy to think some of the bucks we watch are "our" bucks but in truth they aren't. Should be about the kids really.

The lack of youths hunting has far more to do with society in general and parenting than regulations and making it easier for them ain't gonna change that

Amazing many of generations young people managed to get into hunting before youth hunts existed. Guess 40 deg weather on the opener too cold and dangerous for today's pampered youth.

Problems lie else ware see above post.

I have yet to see any archers in any state not clamoring for more hunting time and doing away with hunting time for others 7 weeks for an archery season should be cut down to the same length of time as rifle hunters or muzzle loader hunters.

The bill (A10583A) is on the Governor's desk awaiting a signature. It would extend the current crossbow regulations until 2014 (no expansion of their use in archery seasons) and would prevent firearms during archery hunts inclusive of any scheduled youth hunts during archery seasons.

As of today, it has not been signed. It could end up dead via pocket veto. The Gov has 30 days instead of 10 since the session is over.

Let's hope he gets his Bic moving!

Are Crossbows legal in NY State now? Had neck surgery and was wondering

Not during archery season

The youth firearms hunt of Columbus Day weekend is a go.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html

Yes!

I will be taking a friends son out for the hunt because Dad is only off weekdays, no weekends.

Congrats to NYS DEC and Commo for not bending to the NY Bowhunters Association.

Too bad he is a Dem. I voted for his father once. Will not make that mistake twice.

Crossbows in the archery season next year!

I wish they would make the archery season in northern tier longer. Maybe start it when early bear opens up.

I quit hunting ADK's 10 years ago.

Never saw anyone anyway.

You can bowhunt the entire season.

I don't care if I am bow hunting I just want more time to hunt. I bear hunt now, but its a low probability thing, I see a bear about every 10 days I hunt in early bear, I would rather be deer hunting instead.

I live right on the line between north and south, with the longer southern season I am going to conflicted where to go for the first couple of weeks of the season. Oh and I wish that they would make the licence year sept-1-Aug 31, as it is I lose the first couple days of bow season because its rare to have left over tags from the year before.

Yea I never understood the Oct 1st thing. Don't know why it's done that way.


I hope a one buck per year rule is next. Any season, any weapon, one buck.

And baiting bear.

I believe adding the early weeks in Oct for Bow will open later dates for crossbow/ MZ Dec just using this Route

PA went thru the same crossbow haggle some years ago. They were originally only allowed in archery season with a special permit, based on a doctor's "note" describing allowable achy parts, to qualify for the crossbow permit.

That rapidly became a joke, as the number of such permits increased year after year. Then crossbow manufacturers began coming to Game Commission meetings, lobbying for inclusion in all archery seasons. They were intitally allowed in firearms seasons and muzzle loader seasons (had to buy the MZ stamp).

Some PA bowhunters' orgs fought "inclusion" in archery season for years, but finally lost that battle. Crossbows are now legal in archery seasons here. From a statistical standpoint, they really haven't raised the number of archery licenses all that much, nor have they affected total archery kills all that much (yet), but they have done so a bit.

The crossbow battle caused lots of rifts in the hunting community that still exist today. Same for more firearms and youth seasons in what was once "archery only" parts of the fall.

As for NY, I hunt just across the state line from Steuben County, NY and have for over 50 years. Never made much sense to me that those southern tier NY counties only allowed shotguns for deer? Glad they finally went to rifle deer hunting, might finally get a NR license this year, so I can hunt over in NY. Many of my kinfolks already do, some have lived in NY most of their lives.

I tend to disagree that offering more youth hunting opportunities doesn't bring more kids into our sport. PA license sales have shown slight increases the past two years, with much of that coming via JR licenses and Mentored Youth Hunting permits.

Great post.

Don't thing the New York Bowhunters Association will agree.

They are truly color blind on this subject.

Time will tell. I hope the youth weekend is safe and brings in a large number of kids.

I will do my part by taking out a young man.